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View Poll Results: How might you vote in a United Ireland referendum?
Yes, but obviously after lots of debate and satisfactory finer details being finalised. 299 65.71%
No, would never support it. 156 34.29%
Voters: 455. You may not vote on this poll

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01-06-2019, 01:27   #721
lochlach
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Originally Posted by janfebmar View Post
100 years ago our infrastructure was second to none in the world. Railways, trams, canals, harbours, lighthouses, public buildings, legal system etc.
I showed you figures of tonnage of food imported versus the smaller amount exported during the famine. Did you know there was starvation outside Ireland too? History is not as black and white as you were taught.
You do know that the maize imported was not sufficiently nutritive to maintain anything remotely resembling health, yes?

Now try looking at those figures again.....

While we're at it, you might also want to educate yourself about the corn laws, and how British trade policies affected Ireland......

Last edited by lochlach; 01-06-2019 at 21:41. Reason: addition
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01-06-2019, 02:11   #722
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Originally Posted by FrancieBrady View Post
The combined Unionist vote fell 8 points below 50% in the local elections.
Hmm. I wonder how much of that swing is a backlash against the stalemate at Stormont, as well as a "Brexit" position?

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05-06-2019, 16:09   #723
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Originally Posted by RobMc59 View Post
This post implies only Catholics suffered in the famine whilst Protestants were ok which I`d have thought you`d know is`nt true.
Where on that post did I say Protestants where not effected by the famine? Are you adding things in that is not there ?
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05-06-2019, 19:26   #724
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Originally Posted by citytillidie View Post
Where on that post did I say Protestants where not effected by the famine? Are you adding things in that is not there ?
Protestants forcing Catholics to convert or face starvation?
That does`nt imply Protestants were fine and dandy whilst Catholics suffered?
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05-06-2019, 23:51   #725
lochlach
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Originally Posted by RobMc59 View Post
Protestants forcing Catholics to convert or face starvation?
That does`nt imply Protestants were fine and dandy whilst Catholics suffered?
Some Protestants did force Catholics to convert or face starvation. Some Protestants also starved, though.

Those with power abused it, it's that simple. But, no-one would suggest that poorer Protestants didn't also starve - just that there were a lot more poor Catholics.

Bear in mind that the act of emancipation was in 1829, and tithes were still payable by Catholics to the Protestant Church till the Irish Church act of 1869 - so, Catholics had only a scant few years of emancipation before the famine, which left them in a much more vulnerable position than poorer Protestants, many of whom were among the first to emigrate, because they were more likely to have the means to do so.

That's not a slur on Protestants in general - it's a statement of fact about those Protestants who had money, land, and influence - and worshipped their positions of power to the extent that they lost any semblance of either humanity, or Christianity.
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06-06-2019, 08:22   #726
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Originally Posted by lochlach View Post
Some Protestants did force Catholics to convert or face starvation. Some Protestants also starved, though.

Those with power abused it, it's that simple. But, no-one would suggest that poorer Protestants didn't also starve - just that there were a lot more poor Catholics.

Bear in mind that the act of emancipation was in 1829, and tithes were still payable by Catholics to the Protestant Church till the Irish Church act of 1869 - so, Catholics had only a scant few years of emancipation before the famine, which left them in a much more vulnerable position than poorer Protestants, many of whom were among the first to emigrate, because they were more likely to have the means to do so.

That's not a slur on Protestants in general - it's a statement of fact about those Protestants who had money, land, and influence - and worshipped their positions of power to the extent that they lost any semblance of either humanity, or Christianity.
I agree that British treatment of Catholics within the last hundred years or so has been questionable but during the famine and before I don't believe the ruling English gave protestants special treatment and would cite the massacre of Drogheda by Cromwell when Catholics and Ulster Scots Protestants were slaughtered together.
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06-06-2019, 13:02   #727
lochlach
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I agree that British treatment of Catholics within the last hundred years or so has been questionable but during the famine and before I don't believe the ruling English gave protestants special treatment and would cite the massacre of Drogheda by Cromwell when Catholics and Ulster Scots Protestants were slaughtered together.
But no-one said that the ruling English gave Protestants special treatment! Having said that, there were very few Catholic landowners - Catholics weren't even allowed to own land until the emancipation in 1929 - so it's TRUE to say that Protestant landowners (in a lot of cases - not all) forced Catholics to convert or starve. That doesnt mean that all Protestants were landowners, or that protestants didn't starve, too.

What it means is the the British ruling class were overwhelmingly Protestant - because British law had ensured that they were, for generations.

This is the kind of discussion we need to be having, so that Unionist and Nationalist alike can understand the nuances of one another's viewpoints, without misunderstanding.

When a Nationalist says Protestants starved the Catholics, they're talking about those Protestants who were the ruling class - not the poor sods who were Protestant who also suffered from the unjust laws passed by the ruling class....
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