t bone drum mics?

ogy · 21-06-2004 6:26pm #1

just wondering if anyone has ever used these before?
Theyre really cheap but is that cos theyre totally rubbish?www.netzmarkt.de/thomann/thoiw6_artikel-144837.html
cheers

robbie1876 · 21-06-2004 6:35pm

Never used them personally, so I can't comment. However, I can heartily reccomend the Shure PGDMK4 set as an alternative. They sell in Europe as a set for €599, but you can buy them brand new on Ebay for $169, which works out about €210 after you pay for shipping and get stung with duty import

I've bought 2 sets at this price in the last year (lost the first set) and they are the dogs danglies.

the_obsolete · 21-06-2004 6:58pm

Sweet doggie! That's a bloody steal! Actually could ye recommend any good overhead mics for cymbals?

DMT · 21-06-2004 7:06pm

Originally posted by robbie1876
Never used them personally, so I can't comment. However, I can heartily reccomend the Shure PGDMK4 set as an alternative. They sell in Europe as a set for €599

They're €289 at Thomann's site:
http://www.netzmarkt.de/thomann/thoiw6_artikel-159409.html

robbie1876 · 21-06-2004 7:11pm

Well, I'm no expert on overhead mics. The ones that I bought to go along with my PG drum set where the Shure PG81 mics. Bought them for $199 for 2 PG81s off Ebay, the retail in Europe is €179 each! Gotta love Ebay!

The PG81s where fine for me, I was using them in medium to large clubs through a 5k rig. I had an SM57 on the hats too. If you're using a bigger rig than this or you are recording, you might want to seek advice from someone more in the know, but I can heartily recommend them, they served me welll (until I lost them lol).

EDIT: following on from DMT's post, the PG81s are €145 a pop on thomann too. Nice one.

the_obsolete · 21-06-2004 7:13pm

Ah cheers mate!:D

DMT · 21-06-2004 7:19pm

What sort of mixer would you use to hook these babies up to a PA, 4/8 track or sound card??

robbie1876 · 21-06-2004 7:29pm

Not quite shure (sorry!) what you mean, DMT. The clip on drum mics are regualar dynamic mics, the PG81s are condenser so they need phantom power from your mixer (or use an AA battery in the mic instead). Once your desk has XLR inputs, you can work the mics no problem. It is possible to use whatever adaptors you need to get it into your mic input on a soundcard or a jack input on a 4/8 track, but its not ideal. Something like an XLR to jack converter plug will work ok and is cheap.

ogy · 21-06-2004 8:39pm

cheers lads a wealth of info as always.
another quick question have 2 shure vocal mics lyin around somewhere would it be disastrous to use them for cymbals in a pub band type thing? (dont really know anything about mics:))

bombidol · 21-06-2004 9:44pm

shouldnt do any harm to use em on the cymbals at all,

DMT · 21-06-2004 10:43pm

Originally posted by robbie1876
Not quite shure (sorry!) what you mean, DMT.

What would be a good mixing deck for a drum mic set up?

robbie1876 · 21-06-2004 11:34pm

What would be a good mixing deck for a drum mic set up?

Well, I´ll answer from a live setup point of view, as thats my experience. Its important that your channel eq has a sweepable mid. That will make all the difference, particularly on your snare and hats. If you are lucky enough to have a desk with 2 sweepable mids, use them!

Also, a desk with a low cutoff channel switch (say 80Hz) is handy for the toms. Really important is a channel insert, so you can send the toms off to be gated / compressed. A properly set up gate can make the toms sound dynamite, and it takes the big belly sound off the toms. You want your toms punchy and tight. Well I do anyway

Also, its handy to be able to group your drums to a fader. A desk with say a 24:4:2 setup will allow you to have the whole drumkit under one slider in case you need it during the gig.

Doctor J · 22-06-2004 10:28am

Originally posted by ogy
cheers lads a wealth of info as always.
another quick question have 2 shure vocal mics lyin around somewhere would it be disastrous to use them for cymbals in a pub band type thing? (dont really know anything about mics:))

It'd sound crap. If they're vocal mics they're probably dynamic mic's with a frequency response tailored to mid-frequencies (ie- vocals), so their high frequency pickup is lame and their sound gets worse the further away they are from the source.

For overheads you really need condenser mics with a flat frequency response. As Robbie pointed out, the PG81's will do the job nicely.

DMT · 22-06-2004 11:12am

Originally posted by robbie1876
Well, I´ll answer from a live setup point of view, as thats my experience. Its important that your channel eq has a sweepable mid. That will make all the difference, particularly on your snare and hats. If you are lucky enough to have a desk with 2 sweepable mids, use them!

Also, a desk with a low cutoff channel switch (say 80Hz) is handy for the toms. Really important is a channel insert, so you can send the toms off to be gated / compressed. A properly set up gate can make the toms sound dynamite, and it takes the big belly sound off the toms. You want your toms punchy and tight. Well I do anyway

Also, its handy to be able to group your drums to a fader. A desk with say a 24:4:2 setup will allow you to have the whole drumkit under one slider in case you need it during the gig.

Something like this or maybe this???

robbie1876 · 22-06-2004 11:36am

No, those mixers wouldnt cut it all live in a live situation. Not enough mic inputs, no channel inserts, no sweepable mids and no busses!!

The minimum you could use for effective miking of a full kit would be this but ideally if you could stretch to a real live desk like this you'd be in business.

bombidol · 22-06-2004 11:37am

Is it just for recording Drums? or for recording entire bands?? OR Just for live stuff.
Realistically the easiest way to do it is count the amount of mics you are going to use on the drum kit , Say

1- Kick
2- Snare
3 - Hi Hats
4- Tom1
5 - Tom2
6 - Tom3
7 - Overhead1
8 - Overhead2

So for complete control you are gonna need at least 8 mics, therefore you'll want a desk with 8 inputs.

If thats too much, you can cut corners for live stuff, put one mic inbetween the two rack toms, between the Snare and hihat and dont use overheads at all (depends on the size of the venue)

How much are you willing to spend?
And if its for live work, how much of a desk do you want? 300Watts? 500Watts? 1K?
How loud and powerfull do you want it?
Behringer make nice yet cheap desks, i use a 24 Channel Eurodesk for recording, but use an 8 channel studiomaster for basic live stuff

DMT · 22-06-2004 11:43am

Originally posted by robbie1876
No, those mixers wouldnt cut it all live in a live situation. Not enough mic inputs, no channel inserts, no sweepable mids and no busses!!

The minimum you could use for effective miking of a full kit would be this but ideally if you could stretch to a real live desk like this you'd be in business.

How about this ?- it has 16 mic inputs, €500.

bombidol, would be using it to record drums, but would be nice to have the flexibility of adding other band members. Also there 4 toms, so it would be 9 mics...

robbie1876 · 22-06-2004 11:51am

Yeah that bigger Behringer desk is perfect. Inserts, parametric mid, 4 aux per channel, 4 bus, low cut switch. Just dont use the onboard FX or master EQ, they will probably be horrible.

We recorded our single in our own studio through a very similar Behringer desk, and the quality, while not being up to that of a commercial studio, was very impressive. Behringer are known for making very low noise equipment.

bombidol · 22-06-2004 11:51am

http://www.netzmarkt.de/thomann/thoiw6_behringer_sl2442fxpro_eurodesk_24kanalmixer_prodinfo.html

is perfect alright, similar to what i use myself. you'll probably need a stagebox too or else really long cables. AND You'll need a good sound card. Check out the M-Audio 10/10LT 10 inputs and 10 outputs to hook up to the desk. then you are sorted

Eoin Madsen · 23-06-2004 8:18pm

I generally put a mic over the ride cymbal as well.

Don't put a mic between the snare and the HH, you'll get a poor signal for both. If you're stuck for mics, go with the snare, and the hhs will pick up in the overheads. You'll get enough unwanted spill into the snare mic anyway, so don't make it worse. On a related topic, don't use dynamic mics for cymbals. A Shure SM57 recording a cymbal or hihat is probably the most unpleasant sound in the world.

Are you recording in multitrack or are you mixing to two channels as you record? If you're planning on using multitrack then that desk won't do you much good, unless you're planning on taking a recording signal from the inserts... which would make most of the desk redundant anyway. Though I suppose you could use the four groups, four auxiliaries, and the stereo bus and maybe get ten channels out of it that way. It's hardly the best way to do it though. What are you using to record on to?

Regarding the t.bone mics... They're very good for that amount of money.

t bone drum mics?

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