Buying in an area with a high immigrant population- A Problem?

DubLad69 · 13-06-2021 7:14pm #1

Hi all,

I am in the process of buying a house in a new development in Dublin. It is in a pretty standard middle class area. We were chatting to the estate agent, who mentioned in passing that about half of those purchasing in the development were not born in Ireland. All from Eastern Europe and India (no English, Western Europeans, or Africans at all which seems strange) I've already met my future Indian neighbours who seem so nice.

It got me thinking though, the only two other areas that I know of that have high immigrant population are Tyrrelstown/Blanchardstown and Adamstown. Neither of which I would consider particularly nice areas. Does the high immigrant populations in these areas somehow create some kind of issue? Or is it pure coincidence?

I'm not talking about living next door to immigrants or anything like that, more so that they might not have good social connections etc

Buddy Bubs · 13-06-2021 7:21pm

I don't think eastern Europeans buy houses in big numbers, they tend to rent. Not one I work with has anyway. They generally plan to return home.

But for years now Indians have been buying property in New build areas. They're grand, they're very educated and work good jobs in medicine and IT. Don't cause trouble as far as I can see. Wouldn't bother me with either of those demographics, they all work hard and have pride in their areas.

Melanchthon · 13-06-2021 7:25pm

DubLad69 wrote: »

We were chatting to the estate agent, who mentioned in passing that about half of those purchasing in the development were not born in Ireland. All from Eastern Europe and India (no English, Western Europeans, or Africans at all which seems strange) I've already met my future Indian neighbours who seem so nice.

You've basically answered your own question here, unless the estate agent was completely useless he wouldn't bring up something that is a negative, probably why he talked about the demographics involved too.

Marcusm · 13-06-2021 7:47pm

All of Dublin is full of immigrants; up until the 1990s it was culchies (like me), now there is more diversity. The one difference is the proportion of arseholes doesn’t change whether the people have funny accents, speak foreign languages or have different coloured skins!

MSVforever · 14-06-2021 11:05am

I live in a new estate in Adamstown and there are zero issues in my and the neighbouring estates. The majority of my neighbours are from India and various EU countries. Very nice folks and great neighbours. All those people are highly educated and just want to live normal lives.

In the old part (built in 2006/2007) there a handful troublemakers living in houses bought by the council (they are a mix of the standard Dublin tracksuit scummers, travellers and Nigerian refugees). I personally have only been verbally pestered by some Irish lippy tracksuit scummers in front of the local shop but they are almost everywhere in Dublin.

Would I buy here again? Yes.
Is this for everybody? If you prefer an area where the Irish are the majority of the people then probably not. Again this has nothing to do with anti-social behaviour or crime. It's just not everybodies cup of tea.

KGLady · 14-06-2021 11:39am

DubLad69 wrote: »

Does the high immigrant populations in these areas somehow create some kind of issue? Or is it pure coincidence?

Immigrant populations are rarely the cause of social issues, its home grown "grey sweatpants - no adult role-model" that are the demographic to avoid.

KevRossi · 14-06-2021 11:45am

If they are buying the houses then there'll be no issue with them, other than the usual petty stuff you get with neighbours, no matter where they come from. I'd rather live beside Poles and Indians who paid for their place than my fellow Irish who have been moved there as they've been causing too much trouble elsewhere.

Caranica · 14-06-2021 5:03pm

That estate agent sounds very very unprofessional. They should not be disclosing any information about the identities of purchasers. Also some may be investors. I'd be looking at reporting the EA rather than worrying about stereotypes and generalisations about people who are ultimately paying a six figure sum, the same as you.

Mongfinder General · 14-06-2021 5:10pm

The only people I see causing problems in my area are uneducated and unemployable Irish. Their kids will be even worse.

screamer · 14-06-2021 5:12pm

Trouble wise, I think you’ll be grand. However in places where there are large cohorts of one nationality, integration will be the issue, they’ll stick to their own much like Irish emigrants to other countries. Not sure how that’ll work for neighbourliness, but I’d rather that than our own anti social all for free scummers.

KevRossi · 14-06-2021 6:01pm

Caranica wrote: »

That estate agent sounds very very unprofessional. They should not be disclosing any information about the identities of purchasers. Also some may be investors. I'd be looking at reporting the EA rather than worrying about stereotypes and generalisations about people who are ultimately paying a six figure sum, the same as you.

Ehh, they should be disclosing info about the neighbours. You're buying into a neighbourhood, not just a house.

I want to know if a street/estate that I'm buying in is mostly owner occupied, or if 80% of it is been bought up in bulk by some REIT, some college housing scheme or the council.

They're not giving out personal info on the other buyers, they're giving out general info. Nothing wrong with that.

breezy1985 · 14-06-2021 6:07pm

DubLad69 wrote: »

Hi all,

I am in the process of buying a house in a new development in Dublin. It is in a pretty standard middle class area. We were chatting to the estate agent, who mentioned in passing that about half of those purchasing in the development were not born in Ireland. All from Eastern Europe and India (no English, Western Europeans, or Africans at all which seems strange) I've already met my future Indian neighbours who seem so nice.

It got me thinking though, the only two other areas that I know of that have high immigrant population are Tyrrelstown/Blanchardstown and Adamstown. Neither of which I would consider particularly nice areas. Does the high immigrant populations in these areas somehow create some kind of issue? Or is it pure coincidence?

I'm not talking about living next door to immigrants or anything like that, more so that they might not have good social connections etc

Blanchardstown was a dump long before we ever han an immigrant. Immigrants don't make an area s**t it's already that way so the usually poor immigrants move there.

Hamachi · 14-06-2021 10:47pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Blanchardstown was a dump long before we ever han an immigrant. Immigrants don't make an area s**t it's already that way so the usually poor immigrants move there.

You’ve clearly never lived in Blanchardstown. The older parts near the village like Roselawn are lovely and quite desirable. Some of the newer developments, built in the last two decades, less so.

OP, if your future immigrant neighbors are gainfully employed, you’ll likely have few issues. The only downside is that you may have little or nothing in common with them.

I live in one of those hyper diverse areas you’ve mentioned above. The Irish neighbors tend to know each other and mix quite a bit. The immigrants tend to gravitate towards others of their own ethnicity.

I’m actually back in my own hometown of ~8K people this week for family reasons. It’s lovely to stroll around chatting to the neighbors and saying hello to strangers when out for a jog. That aspect is very much missing in my diverse West Dublin neighborhood.

breezy1985 · 14-06-2021 11:20pm

Hamachi wrote: »

You’ve clearly never lived in Blanchardstown. The older parts near the village like Roselawn are lovely and quite desirable. Some of the newer developments, built in the last two decades, less so.

OP, if your future immigrant neighbors are gainfully employed, you’ll likely have few issues. The only downside is that you may have little or nothing in common with them.

I live in one of those hyper diverse areas you’ve mentioned above. The Irish neighbors tend to know each other and mix quite a bit. The immigrants tend to gravitate towards others of their own ethnicity.

I’m actually back in my own hometown of ~8K people this week for family reasons. It’s lovely to stroll around chatting to the neighbors and saying hello to strangers when out for a jog. That aspect is very much missing in my diverse West Dublin neighborhood.

Depends on what you are looking for I suppose. I find the level of nosiness and the sense of ownership people seem to think they have over you in a typical Irish 8k town to be the worst possible type of neighbour.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly · 14-06-2021 11:27pm

I rented in Blanchardstown years ago. An Indian family lived in the apartment downstairs...the smell of curry as I left for work in the morning always gave me pangs for lamb rogan josh.

Hamachi · 14-06-2021 11:38pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Depends on what you are looking for I suppose. I find the level of nosiness and the sense of ownership people seem to think they have over you in a typical Irish 8k town to be the worst possible type of neighbour.

Yep. As you say, it could become suffocating after a while. Horses for courses I guess.

catrionanic · 15-06-2021 7:29am

Maybe a problem if you're a racist.

Honestly, the ethnic background of the locals would never even cross my mind when buying a house.

mcgragger · 15-06-2021 7:31am

catrionanic wrote: »

Maybe a problem if you're a racist.

Honestly, the ethnic background of the locals would never even cross my mind when buying a house.

What if they are racist? Which they are in some areas?
You'd be finding out very quickly you made a big mistake

Caranica · 15-06-2021 7:47am

Hamachi wrote: »

You’ve clearly never lived in Blanchardstown. The older parts near the village like Roselawn are lovely and quite desirable. Some of the newer developments, built in the last two decades, less so.

I've lived in one of those newer developments for 17 years and it's lovely and quite desirable. With one exception, properties tend to sell in days rather than weeks or months. The nationality of owners has zero relevance.

mcgragger · 15-06-2021 7:48am

<SNIP>

Hamachi · 15-06-2021 8:23am

Caranica wrote: »

I've lived in one of those newer developments for 17 years and it's lovely and quite desirable. With one exception, properties tend to sell in days rather than weeks or months. The nationality of owners has zero relevance.

Which is why I said ‘some’ before you start getting your panties in a twist.

Presumably you also have an issue with poster who labelled the entire Blanch area a ****hole?

Hamachi · 15-06-2021 8:31am

catrionanic wrote: »

Maybe a problem if you're a racist.

Honestly, the ethnic background of the locals would never even cross my mind when buying a house.

Just curious, do you think the estate agent who discussed this topic with the OP is a racist?

merikahan · 15-06-2021 8:48am

I think I know which estate you are talking about and the EA told me same about 50% non Irish.

I’ve met few of the neighbors and all of them are highly qualified and working with Google, Facebook etc and really nice people.

Last year in March, I got Covid after returning from Spain and my Indian neighbor took care of me even though I hardly knew him. He got me groceries and left at the apartment’s door and also cooked food for me ( when everything was shut and everyone was scared).

You’ll be grand.

you2008 · 15-06-2021 10:30am

It's so funny no one mentioned Chinese - PS I am

ax530 · 15-06-2021 10:37am

Everyone in the country knows how difficult it is to buy a house we all know of cases where adults are living with parents and family to save deposit. I would imagine people who have moved to a new country and can get to the stage where they can buy a house would be great neighbours to have.

JohnnyChimpo · 15-06-2021 12:10pm

DubLad69 wrote: »

Hi all,
Does the high immigrant populations in these areas somehow create some kind of issue? Or is it pure coincidence?

It's not a coincidence, but the arrow of causation points the other way. Cheaper, less-well-serviced areas are more attractive to immigrant populations who might have less purchasing power (obviously this is a generalisation). The lack of amenities lead to social issues in those areas, combined with ghettoisation effects and lots of young families (mostly "native Irish"). More established areas have more amenities, tend to have more owner-occupiers and older demographics - i.e. a "settled area".

Personally I would see it as a net positive, except for your EA who sounds like a knob

PeRATENi · 16-06-2021 1:28pm

Do you mind telling us the name of the development? I am Indian and about to pull the trigger on a property as well, just want to make sure i steer clear from the estate you are talking about and do my part

FWIW i think for a big investment like buying a house, you have every right to question, raise concerns, I wouldn't want to live anywhere i wasn't happy either, Good Luck !

DubLad69 wrote: »

Hi all,

I am in the process of buying a house in a new development in Dublin. It is in a pretty standard middle class area. We were chatting to the estate agent, who mentioned in passing that about half of those purchasing in the development were not born in Ireland. All from Eastern Europe and India (no English, Western Europeans, or Africans at all which seems strange) I've already met my future Indian neighbours who seem so nice.

It got me thinking though, the only two other areas that I know of that have high immigrant population are Tyrrelstown/Blanchardstown and Adamstown. Neither of which I would consider particularly nice areas. Does the high immigrant populations in these areas somehow create some kind of issue? Or is it pure coincidence?

I'm not talking about living next door to immigrants or anything like that, more so that they might not have good social connections etc

16-06-2021 1:33pm

It really is shocking to think that people would worry about the nationalities of the persons buying houses in the same estate.
Cannot understand why this could be a problem

December2012 · 16-06-2021 1:36pm

I live in an area of Dublin with a very ethnically diverse population. And its great! Active GAA club, active basketball club, dance lessons, etc with lots of members of different ethnicities and I have not encountered any social problems.

Hamachi · 16-06-2021 2:56pm

bubblypop wrote: »

It really is shocking to think that people would worry about the nationalities of the persons buying houses in the same estate.
Cannot understand why this could be a problem

What’s your take on the estate agent sharing this information with the OP?

Do you think it was a benign slip of the tongue? Or is it something, that in his professional experience, homebuyers tend to query?

16-06-2021 3:05pm

Hamachi wrote: »

What’s your take on the estate agent sharing this information with the OP?

Do you think it was a benign slip of the tongue? Or is it something, that in his professional experience, homebuyers tend to query?

I'm not sure why it would even come into his head to mention it.

Hamachi · 16-06-2021 3:21pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm not sure why it would even come into his head to mention it.

Whatever your perspective, I think everybody posting on this forum can agree that house prices in Dublin are outrageous. I suspect everybody will be paying minimum 350K for their desired property. In many cases, far more than this.

It’s one of the most crucial decisions you’ll take in your life. The way I see this is that it’s another piece of information, another data point that helps inform your decision. How that information is processed, depends on the individual. For some like yourself, it’s irrelevant. That’s totally fine; that’s your perspective. However, it is likely something that others consider when making their purchase. I suspect that the number of buyers, for whom this is a factor, is stat-sig, which is why the EA raised it.

Just for a little perspective on this, I have an Indian colleague who has told us that some Indians post on community-oriented forums, inquiring as to where the greatest concentrations of Indians live in Dublin. It’s a factor in their decision-making when purchasing. The Hansfield section of Ongar is particularly popular, as a quick drive through the area confirms.

Claw Hammer · 16-06-2021 4:36pm

I think it is better to buy a second hand house in an established area than in a new build area. This is so no matter what the demographics of the neighbours. The area is established, facilities will be available and no issues like pyrite, mica of fire safety to be concerned about.

myshirt · 16-06-2021 4:47pm

Threads like this remind why it is so important that we buy and build more social housing in new and existing estates, especially next to the OP.

There is a horrible and sinister undertone to this thread. I know I won't get much support, but it's something about Ireland that really has to change. I personally welcome all socioeconomic profiles and nationalities. Go me eh. Jesus Christ on the cross levitating above you all. No. Far from it. Real racism and discrimination is the subtle sh't like this in this post and thread, and it absolutely has to stop.

We are not going down the route of gated communities. Property rights are already over the top in this country as it is.

Hamachi · 16-06-2021 5:21pm

myshirt wrote: »

There is a horrible and sinister undertone to this thread. I know I won't get much support, but it's something about Ireland that really has to change. I personally welcome all socioeconomic profiles and nationalities. Go me eh. Jesus Christ on the cross levitating above you all. No. Far from it. Real racism and discrimination is the subtle sh't like this in this post and thread, and it absolutely has to stop.

Do you think this is unique to Ireland? It’s not. I used to own property in an inner suburb of a major city on the continent. This city is far more diverse than Dublin. ~40% of the population are of migration background.

Before I purchased, I was advised by the agent in pretty specific detail as to the demographic make-up of the area. Ireland is playing catch-up in this regard. It’s been a factor in property purchasing decisions in other developed nations for decades.

16-06-2021 5:48pm

Hamachi wrote: »

Do you think this is unique to Ireland? It’s not. I used to own property in an inner suburb of a major city on the continent. This city is far more diverse than Dublin. ~40% of the population are of migration background.

Before I purchased, I was advised by the agent in pretty specific detail as to the demographic make-up of the area. Ireland is playing catch-up in this regard. It’s been a factor in property purchasing decisions in other developed nations for decades.

So, other countries are racist, Ireland should be too.......
Mmmmmmm, sounds great!

Hamachi · 16-06-2021 5:51pm

bubblypop wrote: »

So, other countries are racist, Ireland should be too.......
Mmmmmmm, sounds great!

Interesting. Indian people seeking out neighborhoods with a higher concentration of other Indians. Chinatowns. Little Vietnams.

Do you see those types of enclaves as racist?

DoozerT6 · 16-06-2021 5:52pm

Nationality or ethnicity would not matter one whit to me, what would matter is whether the majority of the people living there were employed in some capacity. Whether it's an Indian doctor, Polish builder, African IT professional, I don't care. What I would care about are people in the area where I will be spending a sh!t ton of money to live, lazing about all day on the dole with nothing to do except be loud and cause trouble. PLENTY of Irish people fall into that category. I could rather live in an area full of foreign professionals/grafters than Irish Anto's. You might miss a bit of Irish banter over the fence, but you might have a more peaceful life overall.

16-06-2021 5:59pm

Hamachi wrote: »

Interesting. Indian people seeking out neighborhoods with a higher concentration of other Indians. Chinatowns. Little Vietnams.

Do you see those types of enclaves as racist?

No. Do you?

Hamachi · 16-06-2021 6:04pm

bubblypop wrote: »

No. Do you?

Not in the least.

enricoh · 16-06-2021 6:50pm

myshirt wrote: »

Threads like this remind why it is so important that we buy and build more social housing in new and existing estates, especially next to the OP.

There is a horrible and sinister undertone to this thread. I know I won't get much support, but it's something about Ireland that really has to change. I personally welcome all socioeconomic profiles and nationalities. Go me eh. Jesus Christ on the cross levitating above you all. No. Far from it. Real racism and discrimination is the subtle sh't like this in this post and thread, and it absolutely has to stop.

We are not going down the route of gated communities. Property rights are already over the top in this country as it is.

Go you is right. I've a mate from Luton and he said there is areas there that he wouldn't be allowed move into as he isn't Muslim.
If I was moving to certain parts of Belfast, Portadown etc I'd be whispering in the estate agents ear whether my accent etc may be an issue for some locals!
Real life trump's woke points everyday.

Caranica · 16-06-2021 7:26pm

myshirt wrote: »

Threads like this remind why it is so important that we buy and build more social housing in new and existing estates, especially next to the OP.

There is a horrible and sinister undertone to this thread. I know I won't get much support, but it's something about Ireland that really has to change. I personally welcome all socioeconomic profiles and nationalities. Go me eh. Jesus Christ on the cross levitating above you all. No. Far from it. Real racism and discrimination is the subtle sh't like this in this post and thread, and it absolutely has to stop.

We are not going down the route of gated communities. Property rights are already over the top in this country as it is.

Bravo!! There's overt and covert racism on this thread, so so wrong.

Hamachi · 16-06-2021 7:43pm

Caranica wrote: »

Bravo!! There's overt and covert racism on this thread, so so wrong.

I agree. The poster you quoted appears to suggest that there is a correlation between social housing and the preponderance of immigrants in a neighborhood.

Thanks for highlighting that racist thinking. So, so wrong indeed.

Mad_maxx · 16-06-2021 8:05pm

myshirt wrote: »

Threads like this remind why it is so important that we buy and build more social housing in new and existing estates, especially next to the OP.

There is a horrible and sinister undertone to this thread. I know I won't get much support, but it's something about Ireland that really has to change. I personally welcome all socioeconomic profiles and nationalities. Go me eh. Jesus Christ on the cross levitating above you all. No. Far from it. Real racism and discrimination is the subtle sh't like this in this post and thread, and it absolutely has to stop.

We are not going down the route of gated communities. Property rights are already over the top in this country as it is.

"Property rights are already over the top in this country as it is "

Please elaborate as to what you would like done to erode the current level of Property rights here?

Red Silurian · 16-06-2021 10:57pm

I know a couple who bought in an estate filled with English people and they say it was grand... It was in Kent though so that's probably a bad example

L1011 · 16-06-2021 10:59pm

I think this thread, and topic, has long since run its course. I had no moderation tools access yesterday or it would have been closed then.

Buying in an area with a high immigrant population- A Problem?

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