Language exemptions for Secondary school Autistic boy

todolist · 16-11-2019 10:12pm #1

My 12 year old son is in first year in Secondary school.He has high functioning autism and Dyspraxia.Does anyone know what language exemptions he could get? He's struggling with the amount of subjects he has to study so if he could drop Irish and the foreign language it would be a great help to him.Please help.Thanks.

alchemist33 · 16-11-2019 10:24pm

He can drop Irish anyway (mine has). The other language surely isn't mandatory, so could be dropped easy enough?

todolist · 16-11-2019 10:41pm

alchemist33 wrote: »

He can drop Irish anyway (mine has). The other language surely isn't mandatory, so could be dropped easy enough?

Don't you have to apply for an Irish language exemption? He has to do a mandatory foreign language.How did your child get the Irish exemption? Does he do a foreign language (French or German)?

todolist · 17-11-2019 6:59pm

Does anyone have children in a similar situation?

alchemist33 · 18-11-2019 12:08am

todolist wrote: »

Don't you have to apply for an Irish language exemption? He has to do a mandatory foreign language.How did your child get the Irish exemption? Does he do a foreign language (French or German)?

The boss here says the school applied for it on his behalf and it was accepted.

He's first year so choosing subjects now - he actually wants to do French. A "third" language isn't mandatory in the school so he could probably avoid it if he wanted.

todolist · 19-11-2019 5:31pm

At the moment he's doing Irish,French and German.It's too much for him.I'm planning to write to the Principal to ask for an Irish exemption and maybe she could let him drop German and French too.

THENORTHSIDER · 21-11-2019 3:59pm

todolist wrote: »

Don't you have to apply for an Irish language exemption? He has to do a mandatory foreign language.How did your child get the Irish exemption? Does he do a foreign language (French or German)?

on what grounds did the school apply for your sons exemption.

todolist · 23-11-2019 7:47pm

THENORTHSIDER wrote: »

on what grounds did the school apply for your sons exemption.

He has autism and dyspraxia.

KaneToad · 23-11-2019 7:50pm

todolist wrote: »

At the moment he's doing Irish,French and German.It's too much for him.I'm planning to write to the Principal to ask for an Irish exemption and maybe she could let him drop German and French too.

Why is Irish your first choice to drop?

todolist · 24-11-2019 3:40pm

KaneToad wrote: »

Why is Irish your first choice to drop?

Irish is the only one you can apply for according to the dept of education.It's nothing against Irish it is just his workload in school is tough.I know i can apply for Irish but i want him to drop the foreign language too.

THENORTHSIDER · 25-11-2019 2:48pm

todolist wrote: »

He has autism and dyspraxia.

My son has autism and when we went about attempting to secure an exemption for him we were told by the principle that he didn't fulfil the criteria for securing an exemption. We were told being on the autistic spectrum was not a reason for getting an exemption.

The principle is hiding behind the criteria and wont budge. He is learning his spellings off by memory but has no comprehension of the language.

byhookorbycrook · 06-12-2019 11:39pm

THENORTHSIDER wrote: »

My son has autism and when we went about attempting to secure an exemption for him we were told by the principle that he didn't fulfil the criteria for securing an exemption. We were told being on the autistic spectrum was not a reason for getting an exemption.

The principle is hiding behind the criteria and wont budge. He is learning his spellings off by memory but has no comprehension of the language.

Criteria have changed . Has he done a test for the exemption?

CraftySue · 14-12-2019 2:05pm

French, german are not compulsory subjects, students do not have to study them, thats why they are no exemptions to be obtained in frech, or german. However, some school may want all students to study a language, and just to be mindful some third level colleges might look for a foreign language. For an Irish exemption, your child would have to fall under the 10th percentile in either word reading, or spelling or reading comprehension, additionally your child would have had interventions put in place to support his needs, to see if there was any improvements. Make sure whoever in the school is doing the testing, is qulified to do so. Guidelines include a parental request form for Irish exemptions - https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0052_2019.pdf

THENORTHSIDER · 16-12-2019 2:07pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Criteria have changed . Has he done a test for the exemption?

the test I think you are talking about is reading an English passage, he would have no problem reading English.

His comprehension of English was supported through jolly phonics, unfortunately his understanding of Irish is giving him trouble as it doesn't follow any pattern similar to jolly phonics learning.

todolist · 18-12-2019 9:47pm

THENORTHSIDER wrote: »

the test I think you are talking about is reading an English passage, he would have no problem reading English.

His comprehension of English was supported through jolly phonics, unfortunately his understanding of Irish is giving him trouble as it doesn't follow any pattern similar to jolly phonics learning.

How old is your son?

todolist · 18-12-2019 9:49pm

alchemist33 wrote: »

He can drop Irish anyway (mine has). The other language surely isn't mandatory, so could be dropped easy enough?

How did he drop Irish? You need a reason otherwise it's compulsory.

THENORTHSIDER · 20-12-2019 12:56am

todolist wrote: »

How old is your son?

HE is 13 since November and due to go into secondary school September 2020.

alibab · 20-12-2019 6:51am

Getting a Irish exemption is not easy I have a son with moderate functioning ASD . His scores were just above the cut off for exemption . He is now struggling has no comprehension of Irish and is acting up in class because of it . Thankfully his SNA is fantastic help . He got 10 percent in Irish exam first year . It’s absolutely ridiculous that it’s so hard to get this .

THENORTHSIDER · 20-12-2019 10:29am

alibab wrote: »

Getting a Irish exemption is not easy I have a son with moderate functioning ASD . His scores were just above the cut off for exemption . He is now struggling has no comprehension of Irish and is acting up in class because of it . Thankfully his SNA is fantastic help . He got 10 percent in Irish exam first year . It’s absolutely ridiculous that it’s so hard to get this .

This is the issue that seems to be there with respect to an Irish exemption, it focuses on the criteria and doesn't allow any situation outside those parameters.

happywithlife · 28-12-2019 1:02am

todolist wrote: »

My 12 year old son is in first year in Secondary school.He has high functioning autism and Dyspraxia.Does anyone know what language exemptions he could get? He's struggling with the amount of subjects he has to study so if he could drop Irish and the foreign language it would be a great help to him.Please help.Thanks.

My understanding is unless he's scored extremely low in the English comprehension testing the only other way to get an exemption is if he is in a unit/special class [open to correction] on this

byhookorbycrook · 02-01-2020 9:20pm

happywithlife wrote: »

My understanding is unless he's scored extremely low in the English comprehension testing the only other way to get an exemption is if he is in a unit/special class [open to correction] on this

Untrue, he can gain an exemption through a standardized spelling test too.

Fleetwoodmac · 16-01-2020 10:38am

I'm a bit late coming into this. Hopefully at this point the OPs son has gotten the exemption. The regulations for exemption has changed since September 2019. Asiam, autism support group has relevant and easy to read articles on the site. They may also be helpful if you contact them directly. The decision to apply for exemption is at discretion of principal and they are of course guided by any psychometric testing, teacher and parental reports. If it is demonstrated that the child's difficulty in learning Irish is causing emotional upset, then an application for exemption is justified. There is also now an appeals process for parents should an exemption be rejected.

THENORTHSIDER · 17-01-2020 6:22pm

Fleetwoodmac wrote: »

. If it is demonstrated that the child's difficulty in learning Irish is causing emotional upset, then an application for exemption is justified.

There is also now an appeals process for parents should an exemption be rejected.

emotional upset not being entertained by the principal of the school my son attends as they feel it does not fulfill the new criteria. The principal won't put a request forward and therefore we can't appeal.

Wanderer78 · 17-01-2020 6:26pm

THENORTHSIDER wrote:

emotional upset not being entertained by the principal of the school my son attends as they feel it does not fulfill the new criteria. The principal won't put a request forward and therefore we can't appeal.

Ah shur increased anxiety tis just fine, won't harm a child or anything! Fcuking hell, our educational system is wrecked for those on the spectrum

Fleetwoodmac · 17-01-2020 6:35pm

That's appalling... it's almost like they set a child up to fail and demonstrate the anxiety. As we all know, the anxiety can be contained until the child is comfortable to release and will typically happen at home. I would imagine that it's a psychologist or another clinician who determines emotional upset, together with parents reports rather than a principal who expertise is in teaching. I would ring the autism support groups. I would also write your request and copy same to principal, and any clinicians involved in your child's care. This will formalize it. Also ring NCSE and ask for guidance. It's disappointing that the principal isn't taking your concerns on board. In my case, my son was granted the exemption two months in to his first year at secondary school but I had to really assert myself and quote the emotional upset which to my knowledge remains part of the exemption criteria. I don't know if it's allowed but if it is, do pm me. Don't give up yet.

THENORTHSIDER · 17-01-2020 6:55pm

The principals suggestion to support my son was to tell him reduce the amount of spellings he does for home work!!!!!

Have been onto support groups and was told they were currently lobbying the department and had no timeline on response. We won't give up as I really fear that his participation in full time education is at risk but we seem to be going around in circles. If the principal supported our request I think we would be successful however I fear they are trying to kick it down the road until June when he no longer comes under the schools radar.

Wanderer78 · 17-01-2020 6:57pm

THENORTHSIDER wrote:

The principals suggestion to support my son was to tell him reduce the amount of spellings he does for home work!!!!!

Wow! The level of ignorance in our educational system regarding these matters is disturbing

todolist · 19-01-2020 5:11pm

I asked the HSE Psychologist if she woulld issue a letter in support of my application to the principal to exempt him from Irish.She wouldn't do it as she said he doesn't meet the criteria.He has high functioning autism and he is struggling to complete the big workload expected in Secondary school.I think my only option now to to pay a Psychologist to write a letter recommending he be exempt from Irish.

CraftySue · 20-01-2020 10:44pm

Fleetwoodmac wrote: »

If it is demonstrated that the child's difficulty in learning Irish is causing emotional upset, then an application for exemption is justified. There is also now an appeals process for parents should an exemption be rejected.

Nowhere in the new guidelines does it refer to anxiety / emotional upset as being a reason for an Irish exemption. The guidelines are very clear - and anxiety is no longer a reason to obtain an Irish exemption.

Parents should also note, that it also refers in the new guidelines that students with an Irish exemption may have to undertake another subject or short course. Therefore if parents were hoping to reduce the curriculum via an Irish exemption -this may not be the case.

" think my only option now to to pay a Psychologist to write a letter recommending he be exempt from Irish.". A recommendation from a psychologist is no longer sufficient, for a student to obtain an Irish exemption they must fulfil the critieria outlined in the new guidelines.

Moonbeam · 27-01-2020 5:24pm

why is he doing french and german if they are too much for him? Is the solution here that he only does one or neither?
Irish is not a requirement for entry into many colleges in Ireland.

overthebridge · 29-01-2020 5:27am

THENORTHSIDER wrote: »

The principals suggestion to support my son was to tell him reduce the amount of spellings he does for home work!!!!!

Have been onto support groups and was told they were currently lobbying the department and had no timeline on response. We won't give up as I really fear that his participation in full time education is at risk but we seem to be going around in circles. If the principal supported our request I think we would be successful however I fear they are trying to kick it down the road until June when he no longer comes under the schools radar.

Have you a link or number for one of these support groups ? Currently in a similar situation to the OP.

THENORTHSIDER · 03-02-2020 2:26pm

todolist wrote: »

l.I think my only option now to to pay a Psychologist to write a letter recommending he be exempt from Irish[/B].

Have done the psychologist assessment and are waiting on report but have been informed that it probably wont be enough for the principal to entertain our request. The principle is adamant that my son does not fulfil the new criteria for an exemption

THENORTHSIDER · 03-02-2020 2:34pm

overthebridge wrote: »

Have you a link or number for one of these support groups ? Currently in a similar situation to the OP.

the people we spoke with have all said the same thing,that they are questioning the departments rational for the new criteria and the fact that if you don't fulfil this criteria you can't apply irrespective of diagnosis.

There is some discretion afforded to school principals and a number of principals we spoke with would be happy to support applications of any child with an ASD diagnosis unfortunately our sons principal isn't open to supporting my sons application.

Check the official criteria to see if your child qualifies for an exemption but I would start the process with the principal and gauge their level of support.

overthebridge · 04-02-2020 7:19am

THENORTHSIDER wrote: »

the people we spoke with have all said the same thing,that they are questioning the departments rational for the new criteria and the fact that if you don't fulfil this criteria you can't apply irrespective of diagnosis.

There is some discretion afforded to school principals and a number of principals we spoke with would be happy to support applications of any child with an ASD diagnosis unfortunately our sons principal isn't open to supporting my sons application.

Check the official criteria to see if your child qualifies for an exemption but I would start the process with the principal and gauge their level of support.

A psychologists letter won't be entertained as it does not fall under the guidelines of the circular. We've exhausted every avenue with the Dept of Ed and the school. They just keep referring to the circular. Which to be honest not many kids are going to qualify for an exemption based on it.

On the advice of our local TD we've made contact with The Ombudsman for Children . They have asked us to send them all the relevant docs we have.

I suggest anyone else in the same boat does this too. The more noise that's made the bigger the reaction.

Wanderer78 · 04-02-2020 7:29am

Jesus I'm finding this stuff incredibly disturbing to read, I wish you folks the best with it

overthebridge · 04-02-2020 8:00am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Jesus I'm finding this stuff incredibly disturbing to read, I wish you folks the best with it

As a parent of 2 young boys with special needs you wouldn't believe the obstacles that are there
while trying to bring them up to the best of your ability.

Wanderer78 · 04-02-2020 8:30am

overthebridge wrote: »

As a parent of 2 young boys with special needs you wouldn't believe the obstacles that are there
while trying to bring them up to the best of your ability.

im autistic myself, only recently diagnosed, im starting to realise how bad the supports are for such issues, i can relate to the stories here, its actually very upsetting

overthebridge · 19-09-2020 5:46am

overthebridge wrote: »

A psychologists letter won't be entertained as it does not fall under the guidelines of the circular. We've exhausted every avenue with the Dept of Ed and the school. They just keep referring to the circular. Which to be honest not many kids are going to qualify for an exemption based on it.

On the advice of our local TD we've made contact with The Ombudsman for Children . They have asked us to send them all the relevant docs we have.

I suggest anyone else in the same boat does this too. The more noise that's made the bigger the reaction.

Just following up on this. We decided to get an assessment done by an Educational Psychologist during the lockdown. She charged 400e for this.
From this assessment we received a diagnosis of Dyslexia and Dyscalculia. The psych said that under no circumstances should our child have to do Irish.
The diagnosises goes a long way to explaining some of the behaviours and outbursts we were seeing around schoolwork.

We sent in an updated application for the Irish Exemption into the school at the end of August. The school then verbally agreed to abstain from teaching
Irish until the application was looked at and following on from this we got the full exemption in writing on Thursday.

Probably the best 400e I've ever spent tbh

Fleetwoodmac · 21-09-2020 12:14pm

overthebridge wrote: »

Just following up on this. We decided to get an assessment done by an Educational Psychologist during the lockdown. She charged 400e for this.
From this assessment we received a diagnosis of Dyslexia and Dyscalculia. The psych said that under no circumstances should our child have to do Irish.
The diagnosises goes a long way to explaining some of the behaviours and outbursts we were seeing around schoolwork.

We sent in an updated application for the Irish Exemption into the school at the end of August. The school then verbally agreed to abstain from teaching
Irish until the application was looked at and following on from this we got the full exemption in writing on Thursday.

Probably the best 400e I've ever spent tbh

Well done on really pursuing this... that's really positive news.

THENORTHSIDER · 08-11-2020 12:25am

Just adding some closure to my original post. Whilst we were talking to our sons primary school principle we engaged an educational psychologist to do an assessment to support our request. Covid 19 lockdown 1 meant he finished primary school earlier than expected therefore no further opportunity to speak with the principle.

He started secondary school in September and we gave his educational report to the school and they had no issue granting him an exemption based on the information in the report. Short and sweet job done, no big discussion. To date the school has been extremely supportive of him.

Language exemptions for Secondary school Autistic boy

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