Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

Lord TSC · 11-06-2021 9:10pm

Hmm. I know Castles isn't reliable, but he's saying we want to shift Martial cause Ole wants another "elite" striker.

So....shift Martial to Real on loan as part of a deal to do Varane.
Bring in Ronaldo to replace Martial.

And walk the league.

Mitch Connor · 11-06-2021 10:39pm

Lord TSC wrote: »

I’d be surprised if he moves if only Sancho comes in tbh.

Would agree, but saw another tweet saying he's been offered around as we are trying to sign an elite forward (citing Castle)

Can't believe it myself, unless it's Ronaldo.

v3ttel · 12-06-2021 1:00pm

Castles absolutely despises United. His commitment to the cause is actually admirable in a way. He is constantly writing negative articles and fueling totally unfounded speculation which always leads to disappointment.

duffman13 · 12-06-2021 1:09pm

Given his obvious and clear negative bias, I'm surprised anyone even mentions his name in here. He's the dregs of Journalism and worse when it comes to United. How the Times employ him is beyond me.

On the Sancho stuff, surely nothing is going to happen now. Englands first game tomorrow so I'd imagine there'll be little to no movement there now for a few weeks

ShooterSF · 12-06-2021 1:47pm

Talisman wrote: »

Waiting a year to sign Maguire made no sense. Mourinho wanted the player and certainly could have used him but £70M was too much. A year later, Mourinho was gone and Woodward was happy to pay £80M for the player. Money clearly wasn't the issue.

I'm no Woodward fanboy, and probably have a bias against Jose as I never wanted or expected him to be offered the United job. But there may be some impact on the decision from our previous signings under Jose who had brought in two CBs over the previous two summers. We also still had Smalling Rojo and Jones floating about. I feel like by that summer the club had already lost faith in Jose and probably should have shipped him but didn't and we had the season we had...

Drumpot · 12-06-2021 2:08pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

I'm no Woodward fanboy, and probably have a bias against Jose as I never wanted or expected him to be offered the United job. But there may be some impact on the decision from our previous signings under Jose who had brought in two CBs over the previous two summers. We also still had Smalling Rojo and Jones floating about. I feel like by that summer the club had already lost faith in Jose and probably should have shipped him but didn't and we had the season we had...

Here’s an interesting article just after Woodward’s first transfer window, absolutely pathetic scatter gun disaster:

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2409762/amp/Manchester-United-summer-2013-transfer-window-disaster.html

Bilbao players are rarely sold below their buyout fee as the club only use Basque players and are therefore incredibly difficult to replace. Bayern Munich signed Javi Martinez last year, and the Germans privately admitted that it was one of the most complicated and hard-fought deals they had encountered.

United - inexplicably - tried to haggle. Woodward and United’s team of negotiators should have done their homework.

There’s two things that stick out in the highlighted bits. One is United targeting Herrera, who they still bought the next season for LVG (the club identity’s its own targets). Secondly it’s United being very uninformed in bidding on players and thinking it can haggle a deal out of a club that notoriously doesn’t haggle. Sound familiar? How much has the club learned since Fellaini? Any similarities with sancho deal dragging out over a year ?

Maybe the biggest problem was how often United ended up signing players who were 3rd or 4th or lower targets on their list of targets in a position. That’s not any managers fault and has most likey happened for every United manager since SAF. If you keep missing out on top targets the squad eventually pays for it. People can say “well the manager got a CB” and “they agreed to the list of players to target” but you can’t expect league title and CL challenged if the club faffs about so much for signings.

Central defence, central midfield and centre forward are usually vital positions for any top team. Before maguire we didn’t have a top top central defender in the squad. Before Bruno we didn’t really have a quality, consistent , creative central midfielder. Last season we didn’t have a top quality centre forward.

The squad is constantly missing several pieces to make a proper challange for top honors in the 2 top cups. Chelsea and City are the comparable clubs that spend significant amounts , but they spend so much better then United and have a much better success rate with transfers in and out.

BKtje · 12-06-2021 2:49pm

duffman13 wrote: »

On the Sancho stuff, surely nothing is going to happen now. Englands first game tomorrow so I'd imagine there'll be little to no movement there now for a few weeks

Why? Personal terms are apparently agreed. They have to negotiate with Dortmund not Sancho. The signing itself may be delayed but the negotiations will continue

StringerBell · 12-06-2021 5:13pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

I'm no Woodward fanboy, and probably have a bias against Jose as I never wanted or expected him to be offered the United job. But there may be some impact on the decision from our previous signings under Jose who had brought in two CBs over the previous two summers. We also still had Smalling Rojo and Jones floating about. I feel like by that summer the club had already lost faith in Jose and probably should have shipped him but didn't and we had the season we had...

Already lost faith in him after finishing second in the league?

I can't work that out, but I agree with the sentiment as was mentioned many times that summer, back him or sack him.

What happened after Jose didn't get his way in the summer was absolutely inevitable, we all knew it. Just led to the club wasting more time.

Hococop · 12-06-2021 5:56pm

Lads that's horrible to see

ShooterSF · 12-06-2021 8:58pm

StringerBell wrote: »

Already lost faith in him after finishing second in the league?

I can't work that out, but I agree with the sentiment as was mentioned many times that summer, back him or sack him.

What happened after Jose didn't get his way in the summer was absolutely inevitable, we all knew it. Just led to the club wasting more time.

Yeah I know its weird, but look at this season we finished 2nd and there's plenty that would happily see Ole out so it's not impossible. I just felt looking back on it that some behind the scenes felt the same way about Jose and it might have been to do with stuff we don't see e.g morale, demands etc and they didn't trust his evaluation of a central defence he had gotten 2 recruits for over the past summers (not saying that was correct)

Lord TSC · 13-06-2021 2:05pm

Trippier starting at LB over Shaw and Chilwell (who isn't even in the squad). Sancho left out of the squad too :S

KH25 · 13-06-2021 2:10pm

Lord TSC wrote: »

Trippier starting at LB over Shaw and Chilwell (who isn't even in the squad). Sancho left out of the squad too :S

Bizarre decision to not play an actual LB.

Bleating Lamb · 13-06-2021 2:25pm

Southgate must not trust Shaw defensively as there is no way Trippier is better than him going forward from left back.England have started well but Mings in particular is not an international standard defender.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 13-06-2021 2:39pm

Modric giving a lesson in midfield play. Some of lads he's facing valued at 90m

ShooterSF · 13-06-2021 2:42pm

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Modric giving a lesson in midfield play. Some of lads he's facing valued at 90m

Wrong thread?? :confused

EltonJohn69 · 13-06-2021 3:08pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

Wrong thread?? :confused

Rice ?

The_Kew_Tour · 13-06-2021 5:53pm

Rice was bang average today

StringerBell · 13-06-2021 6:27pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Rice was bang average today

Is he not pretty much bang average the majority of the time?

TRC10 · 13-06-2021 6:30pm

StringerBell wrote: »

Is he not pretty much bang average the majority of the time?

Imagine spending £90m on Rice when you can get Neves for £35m.

StringerBell · 13-06-2021 6:31pm

TRC10 wrote: »

Imagine spending £90m on Rice when you can get Neves for £35m.

How come neves is being priced at that actually? Where did that come from?

The_Kew_Tour · 13-06-2021 6:31pm

StringerBell wrote: »

Is he not pretty much bang average the majority of the time?

He is very good against the mid and bottom teams. You can see he has quality.

But I have yet to see him do it against City, United, Pool or Chelsea.

He struggles under the press and he does not dig teams out of it.

No way is he worth 90m or close to it.

Your Airbag · 13-06-2021 6:32pm

StringerBell wrote: »

Is he not pretty much bang average the majority of the time?

He is, I don't understand the fuss about him or the desire on here to sign him. He's ok but sometimes he gets mentioned as the answer to our problems, he's not that much better then McTominay.

StringerBell · 13-06-2021 6:32pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He is very hood against the mid and bottom teams. You can see he has quality.

But u have yet to see him do it against City, United, Pool or Chelsea.

He struggles under the press and he does not dig teams out of it.

No way is he worth 90m or close to it.

Yeah I'd agree with all of that, not saying he's bad or anything just that he's mediocre/average. Nothing special about him yet that I've seen anyway or anything that I would be remotely happy with the club spunking the transfer budget on anyway.

TRC10 · 13-06-2021 6:32pm

StringerBell wrote: »

How come neves is being priced at that actually? Where did that come from?

Wolves want/need to sell and that's the price he's available for, allegedly.

The_Kew_Tour · 13-06-2021 6:35pm

If he struggles against a average CM like Croatia with their best player at 35 I be holding off on that offer.

S.M.B. · 13-06-2021 6:57pm

I only saw 3/4 of today's game but didn't think Rice did much wrong.

Croatia's "average" midfield had basically an extra man and was made up of a Serie A winner, a Champions League winner and while Modric may be 35 he still is exceptional on the ball.

(not necessarily saying we should be spending 90m on the guy but not going to be overly critical too based on a potential price tag. the guy we are probably going to spend 90m on didn't even make the match day squad too)

StringerBell · 13-06-2021 7:05pm

Is it overly critical to call a player average?

Look at what you said even, didn't see him do much wrong today - how many games would you also say the same about Fred for example who would presumably be the biggest victim of signing Rice and who are large section on here at least would be adamant needs upgrading on.

I won't argue with the other point other than to say, I don't really rate GS very highly, so his inclusion or not of a player wouldn't put me off him, he actually played Trippier at left back today ahead of Shaw and chilwell, who also didn't make the squad which is objectively odd to say the least.

I'm not exactly thrilled with the Sancho prices that are bandied about either given the nationality, the league he plays in and the fact I've not ever really been overly impressed when watching him play top level opposition, GS leaving him out though wouldn't make my list of negatives about the player

ShooterSF · 13-06-2021 7:52pm

Potential transfers aside, I feel more assured that some fans are rushing into this Henderson over DeGea thing.. The guy isn't even rated as better than Pickford for England, at least not enough to guarantee the No. 1 spot and people are in a rush to ship a world class keeper out the door to accommodate him.

The_Kew_Tour · 13-06-2021 8:15pm

S.M.B. wrote: »

I only saw 3/4 of today's game but didn't think Rice did much wrong.

Croatia's "average" midfield had basically an extra man and was made up of a Serie A winner, a Champions League winner and while Modric may be 35 he still is exceptional on the ball.

(not necessarily saying we should be spending 90m on the guy but not going to be overly critical too based on a potential price tag. the guy we are probably going to spend 90m on didn't even make the match day squad too)

Can't buy this extra man in midfield stuff. If he comes to United nobody is going hold his hand. For 90m I want see a player transform this side.

Making excuses is simply not going cut it at United if you want see a PL or CL challenge.

Modric is exceptional on the ball. For 90m I like think we get a guy good on ball too? Or what else

KH25 · 13-06-2021 9:16pm

Your Airbag wrote: »

He is, I don't understand the fuss about him or the desire on here to sign him. He's ok but sometimes he gets mentioned as the answer to our problems, he's not that much better then McTominay.

Based on today I’d be more interested in Philips than Rice. Personally I think Rice is overrated.

BenK · 13-06-2021 9:57pm

Where is this 90 million valuation of Rice coming from? Decent player but you'd be expecting an absolute game changer of a signing at that money, particularly in the Covid era.

AidoEirE · 13-06-2021 10:25pm

Unpopular opinion.... I prefer Ndidi over Rice.

*ducks for cover*

duffman13 · 13-06-2021 10:29pm

AidoEirE wrote: »

Unpopular opinion.... I prefer Ndidi over Rice.

*ducks for cover*

I would imagine that is not all that unpopular of an opinion

Or should I also duck for cover

StringerBell · 13-06-2021 10:55pm

AidoEirE wrote: »

Unpopular opinion.... I prefer Ndidi over Rice.

*ducks for cover*

That's a popular opinion surely?

Rossi IRL · 13-06-2021 11:13pm

AidoEirE wrote: »

Unpopular opinion.... I prefer Ndidi over Rice.

*ducks for cover*

Not unpopular at all

Would have a few players before Rice

AidoEirE · 13-06-2021 11:52pm

I'd sign the scout the from Leicester that keeps finding these gems of a dm type players. A Kante/Ndidi that burst around the place would solve a lot for the midfield slot. But also chip in with a few goals.

**** it, can we just find the a Park Ji Sung the man machine.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 14-06-2021 12:14am

AidoEirE wrote: »

Unpopular opinion.... I prefer Ndidi over Rice.

*ducks for cover*

Agree

AidoEirE · 14-06-2021 12:21am

Varane, Sancho, Ndidi/Neves for 200 million. Dont think we'd be going wrong there and would take us the next level.

Wouldnt worry about the forward line at all till next jan/summer.

Get those 3 mentioned above imo we'd be in a very very good place.

Not mega money

Edit: with the 3 players mentioned there would be change left over that could be used in jan or next summer

Whatsisname · 14-06-2021 12:46am

AidoEirE wrote: »

Unpopular opinion.... I prefer Ndidi over Rice.

*ducks for cover*

I’d agree and it seems a lot do too. I think there’s just an acceptance that it’d be easier to sign a player from West Ham than Leicester right now.

I’d sooner have Phillips or Neves over Rice tbh. Though Phillips is Leeds through and through. Neves is probably the easiest to obtain but he’s not perfect either. I’ll be sick if he’s lining up in Arsenals midfield with Partey next season though.

TRC10 · 14-06-2021 4:18am

ShooterSF wrote: »

Potential transfers aside, I feel more assured that some fans are rushing into this Henderson over DeGea thing.. The guy isn't even rated as better than Pickford for England, at least not enough to guarantee the No. 1 spot and people are in a rush to ship a world class keeper out the door to accommodate him.

Wouldn't read too much into England team selection.

Trippier is rated over Shaw as a LB by Southgate. Doesn't mean Trippier is a better LB than Shaw.

I've heard a few people, like Ben Foster and Mourinho, say that rate Henderson over Pickford. And tbh so do I.

Henderson is a good keeper and I wouldn't be so fast to discard him after a bad game v Liverpool.

That being said, I wouldn't be so fast to rush De Gea out the door either, but we definitley have to sell one of them

14-06-2021 7:50am

Was Sancho injured yesterday or why wasn't he involved?

Lucas Hood · 14-06-2021 8:06am

Exactly wrote: »

Was Sancho injured yesterday or why wasn't he involved?

They can only name 23 players in match squad 3 need to be keepers. 3 players will always miss out.

All_in_Flynn · 14-06-2021 10:08am

Lots of talk about Rice over last couple days here. Can't agree with peoples assessment of his performance yesterday as 'average'. He and Phillips were the two best players on the pitch for me. They completely nullified the Croatian midfield. It was a difficult game for anyone to stand out yesterday the way both teams set up however.

Rice is a massive upgrade on Fred, McTominay and Matic. I'm not sure where this valuation of 90m is coming from? He will go for 50 odd though and I can see why. He reads the game really well, and just on the eye test he covers the ground really well. I really like his attitude too, he just feels like a really good fit for us.

For the life of me, I can't understand the fascination with Neves. I have never been impressed with him and if you were to offer me him for 35m or Rice for 60m I'd take Rice every time.

Deise_2012 · 14-06-2021 10:36am

Anyone saying Rice was outclassed by Modric yesterday doesn’t have a clue. Rice’s job is to break up play and give the ball to players who are better on the ball. Modric is their quarterback, everything goes through him... Rice was on the other side of the pitch, wtf do people expect from him?

S.M.B. · 14-06-2021 10:39am

StringerBell wrote: »

Is it overly critical to call a player average?

Look at what you said even, didn't see him do much wrong today - how many games would you also say the same about Fred for example who would presumably be the biggest victim of signing Rice and who are large section on here at least would be adamant needs upgrading on.

Probably not when viewed from the perspective of a United fan looking at a proposed target. I guess for a minute I didn't have my United hat on and thought it was a little harsh for such a critique to be brought up yesterday.

A young lad had just made his major tournament debut as a DM in a 1-0 victory against the previous world cup finalists and I come on here and it's all 'Rice is nothing more than an average player up against average opposition!'. I'm curious to see how he get's on throughout the tournament. My major takeaway from the game was how the pairing of Rice and Phillips did very well as a combination.

Interesting that Fred played last night in a more forward position on the left of a midfield 3 with Casemiro in behind him.

Liam O · 14-06-2021 11:53am

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

Lots of talk about Rice over last couple days here. Can't agree with peoples assessment of his performance yesterday as 'average'. He and Phillips were the two best players on the pitch for me. They completely nullified the Croatian midfield. It was a difficult game for anyone to stand out yesterday the way both teams set up however.

Rice is a massive upgrade on Fred, McTominay and Matic. I'm not sure where this valuation of 90m is coming from? He will go for 50 odd though and I can see why. He reads the game really well, and just on the eye test he covers the ground really well. I really like his attitude too, he just feels like a really good fit for us.

For the life of me, I can't understand the fascination with Neves. I have never been impressed with him and if you were to offer me him for 35m or Rice for 60m I'd take Rice every time.

What does Rice do better than Fred or McTominay? He plays in their position and still needs another defensive player beside him seemingly.

Why would West Ham sell their most valuable asset for 50 odd million? They make twice that every year from TV.

14-06-2021 12:43pm

Lucas Hood wrote: »

They can only name 23 players in match squad 3 need to be keepers. 3 players will always miss out.

So he's not worthy of a place in the matchday squad and we're looking to pay how much for him?

Father Hernandez · 14-06-2021 12:48pm

Exactly wrote: »

Was Sancho injured yesterday or why wasn't he involved?

Had to skip the game to sign some sponsorship/work contract up in Manchester apparently..

14-06-2021 12:50pm

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Had to skip the game to sign some sponsorship/work contract up in Manchester apparently..

Piano lessons probably

Cookiemunster · 14-06-2021 12:56pm

Exactly wrote: »

So he's not worthy of a place in the matchday squad and we're looking to pay how much for him?

Yeah, because that's how it works. They also played a left back at right back, leaving Shaw on the bench and recent CL winner Chilwell out of the squad. Southgate not selecting him in the 23 says more about Southgate than the player.

Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

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