Driving with blue lights

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Well the lights themselves don't do anything other than warn other users.

If you are an authorized driver in one of the exempted agencies, you can break the law more or less, in the execution of your duty. Assume limits still apply such exercise caution, driving just be reasonable to the situation and so on

Not actually allowed to break the law. The L&S enable you to claim an exemption of some sections of the road traffic act.
If you crash or cause an accident while claiming these exemptions it lands squarely with the driver and their own licence.

Some exemptions they are allowed yo claim would be speed, crossing a line, going through a red light that sort of thing. Not to drive like a maniac which as the OP described can make the situation far worse in some cases. Interestingly its only recently that the RSA launched the Emergency Service Driving Standard (3 levels from basic to response driving) in 2 of the 3 principal response agencies all driving training was in house and eh of varying levels of quality.

mr cowen wrote: »

and break a red light, cross the white line, speed etc. they can be prosecuted for this action, along with a prosecution if the cause an accident.

To be fair the 3 exempted services can also be prosecuted. While there is an exemption for red lights, bus lanes etc. there is no exemption for driving under the influence or dangerous driving. If a serious crash is caused by a fire engine, ambulance or garda vehicle breaking a red light and they are deemed to have endangered other road users they can be prosecuted.

They will not be sanctioned for breaking the red light but can be prosecuted for dangerous driving.

ESDS quote: Some emergency services drivers are exempt from general Road Traffic Legislation in the performance of their duties but only if their actions don’t endanger the safety of other road users. The term ‘in the performance of the duties of that member’ covers a range of day-to-day emergency service activities. If exemptions to the road traffic legislation are used, it must be in accordance with Section 87 of the Road Traffic Act 2010.

Emergency services drivers must always abide by Road Traffic Legislation including the following:

Driving under the influence of an intoxicant
Driving without reasonable consideration
Driving without due care and attention
Dangerous driving
Emergency services drivers can be investigated and prosecuted if their driving is deemed to be dangerous. If they are convicted, any endorsements are recorded on their drivers licence.


i looked at the list of services that signed up to esds..... mountain rescue arent on the list...

Who is involved with ESDS?
A working panel was set up with members drawn from:

The RSA (Chair)
Civil Defence
The Irish Coast Guard
The Defence Forces
An Garda Síochána
Health Service Executive National Ambulance Service
The Pre-Hospital Emergency Care Council
The Chief Fire Officer’s Association
The Irish Prison Service
National Directorate for Fire and Emergency Management

im not sure if GSOC is covered under an garda siochana umbrella

I have witnessed the Wicklow Mountain rescue gang on the roads a couple of times on blues. The standard of their driving leaves a lot to be desired. Mind you, the strobes in the headlights looks really great.

Threads like this really annoy me.

Its quite simple. If you see Blues and Twos get the FCK out of the way, because you can assume that someone is having a MUCH worse day than you.

Nope, instead we have white fkn knights coming along giving it all "Oh, I had to pull in a bit to let the mountain rescue people past and they were driving FAR too fast."

It'd be interesting to see how fast they actually were going cos i can guarantee you that civilians such as you and me are absolute crap at guesstimating speeds of approaching vehicles, especially when we're in our own car.

CharlieCroker wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2010/act/25/section/87/enacted/en/html

While the reference is correct, that section was replaced. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/act/3/section/23/enacted/en/html#sec23

Amendment of section 87 of Act of 2010 — exemptions for emergency vehicles

23. Section 87 of the Act of 2010 is amended by substituting for subsection (1) the following:

“(1) Requirements under the Road Traffic Acts 1961 to 2010 relating to vehicles and requirements, restrictions and prohibitions relating to the driving and use of vehicles, other than those provided under sections 49, 50, 51A, 52 and 53 of the Principal Act, sections 12, 13 and 15 of the Act of 1994 and sections 4, 5, 11, 12 and 14 of this Act, do not apply to—

(a) the driving or use by a member of the Garda Síochána, an ambulance service (provided by a pre-hospital emergency care service provider recognised by the Pre-Hospital Emergency Care Council established by the Pre-Hospital Emergency Care Council (Establishment) Order 2000 ( S.I. No. 109 of 2000 )) or a fire brigade of a fire authority (within the meaning of the Fire Services Act 1981 ) of a vehicle in the performance of the duties of that member, or

(b) a person driving or using a vehicle under the direction of a member of the Garda Síochána,

where such use does not endanger the safety of road users.”.

The tests are:
* No intoxication.
* No careless or dangerous driving.
* Must be a member of the Garda Síochána, PHCC-recognised ambulance service, council fire brigade or driving under the direction of a member of the Garda Síochána. It is the driver, not the vehicle (so no, you can't joyride an ambulance with impunity).
* Does not endanger the safety of road users.

they are covered under a phecc affiliated ambulance service under the road traffic act

sorry you are correct, ...... they do on occasion do critical emergency private transfers, also I suppose a patient could potentially deteriorate during the transfer which might warrant a blue light response.

plus they also do medical cover for events so depending on the immediate severity of the case it might need urgent transport.

Are emergency service personnel specially trained in how to measure speed in some way that mere civilians cannot?

In any case, blue lights is not a licence (pardon the pun) to drive dangerously.

What about every other driver of a vehicle pre esds that is not esds trained? Aka the majority of drivers in each service.

even if a member of a voluntary service is esds trained it doesn't mean they can use blue lights or are EXEMPT from the road traffic act. only the 3 organisations ive outlined earleir are free to drive without garda escort under blue light and audible devices and are exempt from prosecution under the road traffic act in all but 4 circumstances, that means coast guard and mountain rescue aren't permitted to use this exemption

Oh i'm well aware, I just wanted to know where iceage's level was. Was he ok with non esds drivers in the frontline services driving on blues with no formal training or old outdated training?

just bare in mind its not the individual that's covered by the exemption of the road traffic act its the organisation, so even if a member of an organisation that isnt covered/exempted by the act that person who chooses to drive still is open to prosecution even if they have an esds course done, I know firemen in dublin who are involved in vol. organisations and are very experienced esds drivers but would not be cover in their roll driving in their voluntary capacity.

so to the original poster.... the driver behavior you witnessed is highly irresponsible by #1 the driver and #2 the organisation who allowed it to happen. but of course nothing will be done or come to light until some poor unfortunate looses their life at the hands of an inexperienced person or an irresponsible organisation that willfully allows this driving to continue. Or until some traffic superintendent decides to take them to task and highlights it.