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Coronavirus and the effect on Public transport

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    #1652
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    GT89 wrote: »
    With all due respect people are entitled to make their own decisions as to what they feel works best for them. That includes how much you want to go out and what mask they should wear.

    The problem with the likes of the N95 masks is many do not know how to use these propperly as they are supposed to be tight fitting in order to protect the wearer. Another point is that those masks to the best of knowledge are disposable and are quite expensive.

    Well your "knowledge" is wrong once again. N95,etc. masks absolutely come in reusable form and they aren't particularly expensive (the N99/PPF3 one I have is resuable and cost €20).

    Figuring out how to wear them correctly takes just a 2 minute video on youtube, it isn't particularly difficult.

    Of course people can make their own decisions. But they should be based on informed discussions with their GP/Consultant and within the laws being set out by the government in the middle of a global pandemic.


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    #1653
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Ok but what about people with mental illness or intellectual disabilities some of who may not have the motor skills to put on a mask or it may cause extreme distress to put on a mask for some as it's not the norm for them. Not disabilities are visible it's not as simple as no mask no travel it's not black and white like some wish.


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    #1654
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    I can't believe bus drivers working the 66 and 67 routes are allowing people travel from LEIXLIP and MAYNOOTH :eek. They should be fired actually forget the p45 just have them shot already. They are putting us all at risk :D. Shame on Dublin Bus.


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    #1655
    dashcamdanny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    Back after 2 weeks and ye are all still arguing about masks. Maybe its time to change the record.


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    #1656
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    I was on two buses today and there was 100% compliance on both journies. Second bus I was on was busy enough and noticed a few ejits nearly sent flying when the driver braked as they wouldn't touch the handrails. If touching the handrails bothers you that much just wear gloves.


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    #1657
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,319 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Would the NTA be worried about the dog meat factory in Naas having their recent Covid cluster recorded this week by the HSE as GA have one of their depots located there. How far is the depot located from that dog meat factory? The drivers & other staff members working in the depot must feel worried about potentially catching Covid & possibly spread it to their friends & family from employees working in the dog meat factory as they could have travelled on these buses to get to work.

    On the other hand; they could have travelled to work in that factory with other modes namely by car, cycling, taxi or walking.

    It's certainly one of the worst positions to be in right now if you are a PT worker tasked with running an essential service as GA in Naas are trying to run some of their bus routes that were previously run by BÉ from the previous contract. Are some of the GA routes from Naas still able to be run from Naas.

    If a GA staff member officially contracts the virus in Naas while working on duty. What would happen to their other routes based there if the depot has a Covid cluster?


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    #1658
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Annual Taxsaver Tickets to be extended by Six Months
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114288348#post114288348

    Please discuss in the relevant thread.


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    #1659
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Are there any plans to increase the amount of passengers allowed on a bus. Personally I think 60 on a double decker and 40 on single decker would be reasonable once the schools go back.


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    #1660
    thenightman
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭thenightman


    Ah lovely, so the NTA's big plan for when kids who rely on public transport go back to school in Dublin is to tell them to walk or cycle. No additional services or starting school after rush hour. Bloody joke.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/children-in-dublin-who-use-public-transport-should-walk-or-cycle-education-dept-advises-1.4330508


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    #1661
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    thenightman wrote: »
    Ah lovely, so the NTA's big plan for when kids who rely on public transport go back to school in Dublin is to tell them to walk or cycle. No additional services or starting school after rush hour. Bloody joke.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/children-in-dublin-who-use-public-transport-should-walk-or-cycle-education-dept-advises-1.4330508

    I think you will find the quotes in the article and the guidance that has been issued if from the Department of Education rather than the National Transport Authority.

    I believe the NTA are currently assessing options for when schools return.


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    #1662
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    The public transport system is going to come under severe pressure when schools and colleges in particular open


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    #1663
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,319 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    It all depends on what Norma Foley says though about the schools & colleges re-opening in September. There have been calls from public representatives for her to attend the Covid-19 parliamentary committee to give more details about the government's latest plan to re-open the schools. It could give a more detailed response to address the progress made in both the school transport scheme & public transport provisions which will operate near schools.

    This new agreement being talked about between the public & private operators & the NTA may give us more of an insight in about how the issue of the schools being re-opened can be addressed though. One idea that I have in my mind is that more private bus operators based here who do not have any ongoing trade here at the moment due to Covid could be eligible to join the school transport scheme operated by BÉ as long as it doesn't harm any other of their business. This is something similar as to what GAI are likely to do in future with buying the AX's for their depot to expand their bus services in Ballymount.

    This idea will be provided for the other private operators as a way of being paid a small fee by the NTA for a temporary basis to cover the operators other costs of running their business. It would be a good way of helping to keep the demand stable on regular bus routes being provided by public service operators & other services like IÉ & Luas during the school period. But an idea like this one might be way too late in getting implemented by the government as the schools & colleges will be re-opened in less than days or weeks away from each other.

    Obviously taking a journey from home to school or college is different for every student living around the country.

    If your a school/college student heading into these locations while using regular PT throughout the working week; there is a very good chance about what type of service you will be using to get you to your classroom in the morning & then back home again. But with BÉ or a private operator providing you with the School Transport Scheme who runs the service for you instead; they will understand that this service being provided to them is more limited in scope in what time it will pick you up at your bus stop near your home or from school to bring you home in the evening. If you miss that school bus that will take you to school or college or your journey home from school; you will left to your own devices by making your own journey to these places instead via regular PT, walking, cycling or get a lift from your parents.

    My idea will only begin to have any effect if online remote learning was not taking place by students at home while regular learning has to take place in a real classroom.


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    #1664
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    It all depends on what Norma Foley says though about the schools & colleges re-opening in September. There have been calls from public representatives for her to attend the Covid-19 parliamentary committee to give more details about the government's latest plan to re-open the schools. It could give a more detailed response to address the progress made in both the school transport scheme & public transport provisions which will operate near schools.

    This new agreement being talked about between the public & private operators & the NTA may give us more of an insight in about how the issue of the schools being re-opened can be addressed though. One idea that I have in my mind is that more private bus operators based here who do not have any ongoing trade here at the moment due to Covid could be eligible to join the school transport scheme operated by BÉ as long as it doesn't harm any other of their business. This is something similar as to what GAI are likely to do in future with buying the AX's for their depot to expand their bus services in Ballymount.

    This idea will be provided for the other private operators as a way of being paid a small fee by the NTA for a temporary basis to cover the operators other costs of running their business. It would be a good way of helping to keep the demand stable on regular bus routes being provided by public service operators & other services like IÉ & Luas during the school period. But an idea like this one might be way too late in getting implemented by the government as the schools & colleges will be re-opened in less than days or weeks away from each other.

    Obviously taking a journey from home to school or college is different for every student living around the country.

    If your a school/college student heading into these locations while using regular PT throughout the working week; there is a very good chance about what type of service you will be using to get you to your classroom in the morning & then back home again. But with BÉ or a private operator providing you with the School Transport Scheme who runs the service for you instead; they will understand that this service being provided to them is more limited in scope in what time it will pick you up at your bus stop near your home. If you miss that school bus that will take you to school or college or your journey home from there; you will left to your own devices by making your own journey to these places instead via regular PT, walking, cycling or get a lift from your parents.

    My idea will only begin to have any effect if online remote learning was not taking place by students at home while regular learning has to take place in a real classroom.

    The school transport scheme is run by the Dept. of Education through Bus Eireann and is nothing to do with the NTA. Also does not apply in Dublin


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    #1665
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Many schools back next week.....
    If goes to plan...


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    #1666
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    I think they'll have to increase the passenger numbers to something like 60-70 for a double decker. Allow all the seats to be filled at least. Although banning standing passengers would be promlematic in my view as some buses like the AXs for example have a far higher seating capacity while the SGs are more geared towards standing.

    What's happened to the Donnybrook VTs that are usually on the 145 haven't seen them out since before lockdown. The only VTs I've seen are the Phibsboro ones usually on the 39s.


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    #1667
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,499 ✭✭✭john boye


    I saw a few AXs and EVs today and it seemed like both seats were blocked in the row immediately behind the wheelchair area. What's the idea behind it, is it to put extra distance between any vulnerable disabled pax and other pax?


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    #1668
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Anyone explain the sudden spike in "operational issues" i.e. no drivers available for IE services. Is it a case of they are just cutting costs from overtime expenses with demand low or a genuine absenteeism.

    NTA needs to allow them reduce commuter services soon.

    Driver illness in some cases.


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    #1669
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,201 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Services from 31st - term time departures will not operate
    https://www.dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/Update-on-Dublin-Bus-Services-from-31-August/


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    #1670
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Why are the government advising people not to use public transport. Is it in order to free it up for school children and people going to work lr is it because they think public transport is high risk? .

    This is very unfair on operators public and private trying to claw back some farebox revenue. No other business in any other sector has had the government has had the government advise potential customers to use.


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    #1671
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Government will certainly need to step in to support all operators of commercially licensed public transport services, whether they are publicly or privately operated.

    From what I have heard there are a lot of companies close to the edge and this could push them off the edge unless the Government puts a package in place to assist them.

    Also I think that we need to look at the effect this has on the farebox for PSO operators in the overall transport sector who are dependent on such revenue in order to fund their operations.

    Dark times are ahead for the industry again. Just when some of the commercial operators were finally starting to report some decent improvements in loadings as well.

    Can't blame the government for putting the restrictions in place, but they need to help the industry now.


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    #1672
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    People can't be trusted, public transport is a cess pool, transport such as air travel really should have been curtailed till we had this under control.....

    Huge issues now are those living in property where there are huge numbers living and in turn these get buses and trains to work which is putting others at risk....

    This business of saying essential travel since day one has been a joke, public transport was abused big time....


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    #1673
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    devnull wrote: »
    Government will certainly need to step in to support all operators of commercially licensed public transport services, whether they are publicly or privately operated.

    From what I have heard there are a lot of companies close to the edge and this could push them off the edge unless the Government puts a package in place to assist them.

    Also I think that we need to look at the effect this has on the farebox for PSO operators in the overall transport sector who are dependent on such revenue in order to fund their operations.

    Dark times are ahead for the industry again. Just when some of the commercial operators were finally starting to report some decent improvements in loadings as well.

    Can't blame the government for putting the restrictions in place, but they need to help the industry now.

    Whatever about other restrictions being reimposed. Does the government have any evidence to suggest that covid is being transmitted widely on public transport. No other sector has had the government advise against use and considering nearly everyone is wearing a mask now on public transport I can't see how it is of high risk.


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    #1674
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    People can't be trusted, public transport is a cess pool, transport such as air travel really should have been curtailed till we had this under control.....

    Huge issues now are those living in property where there are huge numbers living and in turn these get buses and trains to work which is putting others at risk....

    This business of saying essential travel since day one has been a joke, public transport was abused big time....

    I'm not sure how it was being abused. I know your a driver so you'd see obivously see more but for the most part duri g the height of lockdown buses and trains were running empty for the most part. Obivously your gonna get a few that won't comply but these a small minority.


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    #1675
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    GT89 wrote: »
    Why are the government advising people not to use public transport. Is it in order to free it up for school children and people going to work lr is it because they think public transport is high risk? .

    Reading between the lines, I think they see it as high risk.

    If you think about it a crowded Dublin Bus as an example would have people crowded closer to one another then almost any other indoor environment.

    On top of that you have the difficulty of contact tracing if there is an outbreak on a bus. At least in somewhere like a Meat Factory, they have a record of everyone on site and they have at least some hope of testing everyone there and there families. But on a bus, beyond the Covid19 app, what hope would you have of contact tracing. It is a real tough one.

    BTW on telling those who can work from home, to continue to do so, makes perfect sense. If folks have been working from home the last 6 months and there hasn't been any drop in productivity. Why in gods name would you want them crowding back onto public transport and back into offices, only increasing the risk all round?

    On social media and amongst family and friends, I've been hearing increasingly about ****ty Managers trying to force people to come back to the office in September, even though they can do their job 100% from home. Not big US IT companies, but more the small to medium sized local companies and orgs with Dinosaurs for management. The government needed to knock some sense into those people. If they can work from home, then they absolutely shouldn't be coming into an office.

    Let me add my voice in agreeing with everyone is saying that the government needs to step up to support the industry if they want any public transport to exist after this is all over.


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    #1676
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    GT89 wrote: »
    No other sector has had the government advise against use and considering nearly everyone is wearing a mask now on public transport I can't see how it is of high risk.

    Errr... The Airline Industry, Pubs, etc. face much harsher restrictions and much less support. Public Transport is at least partly being looked after by comparison.


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    #1677
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    GT89 wrote: »
    I'm not sure how it was being abused. I know your a driver so you'd see obivously see more but for the most part duri g the height of lockdown buses and trains were running empty for the most part. Obivously your gonna get a few that won't comply but these a small minority.

    Kids alone was the best or families going out to the park or whatever.
    It was for essential travel when it was very obvious many weren't going to work or hospital appointments.

    People absolutely filthy getting on, no hygiene, going to parties or mates, young ones meeting up when they were not to be out, 10 year olds out at 10 or 11 pm looking to travel for free, people collecting drugs as could smell the weed, drugs left behind, cans littered everywhere, many adults using child leap cards, going to the park and then going home later that evening....


    All this and more was putting all of us at higher risk and now the figures show this as people just gave up and I'm constantly having to watch my back or someone will be touching right up against me or talking right at me....


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    #1678
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    bk wrote: »
    BTW on telling those who can work from home, to continue to do so, makes perfect sense. If folks have been working from home the last 6 months and there hasn't been any drop in productivity. Why in gods name would you want them crowding back onto public transport and back into offices, only increasing the risk all round?

    On social media and amongst family and friends, I've been hearing increasingly about ****ty Managers trying to force people to come back to the office in September, even though they can do their job 100% from home. Not big US IT companies, but more the small to medium sized local companies and orgs with Dinosaurs for management. The government needed to knock some sense into those people. If they can work from home, then they absolutely shouldn't be coming into an office.

    I worked from home pretty much from March until July but then had to come in one day a week. With effect of this week it's been increased to two days per week in the office and there is talk about me having to go back in full time in the second half of September.

    Because of the industry I work in and the fact I do need access to paperwork and secure documents that have to be in secure cabinets and other things, there probably is justification for me to be in one day a week and sometimes a second day depending on what is going on, but I'm struggling to see any rationale beyond that to be honest.

    Lots of workplaces are political though. In our company some people were off on full pay for four months doing nothing and recently came back full time. These would be people who would need to do a lot of scanning, printing, reception duties, facilities, sorting of post, processing paperwork and answer the phone lines etc and really couldn't do it from home.

    They're not happy at all that they are in the office for five days a week whilst some people like me are only there one or two days a week. This is despite the fact that I've been working without a break and they had four months full pay for doing nothing. These kind of people are making a lot of noise internally and I'm certain that this is driving the desire for senior management to get some of us back in.

    As far as my boss is concerned I'd work from home all the time unless I am needed to be in the office for some tasks I couldn't do at home. However my boss has told me that ultimately it's not her call and hinted at the fact that the pressure is being applied from those who had 4 months pay for doing nothing. Honestly those of us who have been working have been like lambs to the slaughter because the sector I work in has been heavily heavily hit by COVID with goalposts and rules changing all the time.

    I travel off-peak times to work by public transport so it's quiet but I haven't really been on a bus or a train aside from my one day a week going to the office since the start of the pandemic. The amount of non essential travel has certainly increased in recent weeks and I'm sorry to say it, but those who appear to be taking non essential travel are the ones ho have least respect for social distancing and other pandemic related rules. They think it's normal, it isn't.


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    #1679
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    bk wrote: »
    Reading between the lines, I think they see it as high risk.

    If you think about it a crowded Dublin Bus as an example would have people crowded closer to one another then almost any other indoor environment.

    On top of that you have the difficulty of contact tracing if there is an outbreak on a bus. At least in somewhere like a Meat Factory, they have a record of everyone on site and they have at least some hope of testing everyone there and there families. But on a bus, beyond the Covid19 app, what hope would you have of contact tracing. It is a real tough one.

    BTW on telling those who can work from home, to continue to do so, makes perfect sense. If folks have been working from home the last 6 months and there hasn't been any drop in productivity. Why in gods name would you want them crowding back onto public transport and back into offices, only increasing the risk all round?

    On social media and amongst family and friends, I've been hearing increasingly about ****ty Managers trying to force people to come back to the office in September, even though they can do their job 100% from home. Not big US IT companies, but more the small to medium sized local companies and orgs with Dinosaurs for management. The government needed to knock some sense into those people. If they can work from home, then they absolutely shouldn't be coming into an office.

    Let me add my voice in agreeing with everyone is saying that the government needs to step up to support the industry if they want any public transport to exist after this is all over.

    I wouldn't agree nessecarily for example restaurants have to keep 1m between tables and social distancing on public transport is supposed to be 1m with nearly everyone wearing a face covering but yet in a restaurant no one apart from the waiting staff will be wearing a face covering. That's of course if you believe face coverings are an effective tool.

    Thought I heard as well that the tracker app dosen't work properly on the Luas due to the type of metal the roof is made of. Could be the same reason why the Luas dosen't have wifi.

    I'm not against WFH but in some cases it is not possible. I wouldn't go about judging employers based on wanting employees back in the office unless you know the situation the employer is in. A lot of people are do a mix of WFH and going into the office. But some employers may need employees in the office at least partially


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    #1680
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    bk wrote: »
    Errr... The Airline Industry, Pubs, etc. face much harsher restrictions and much less support. Public Transport is at least partly being looked after by comparison.

    Of course every sector has faced restrictions I appreciate I may have badly worded my post but public transport has been the only sector where the govt. has advised people not to use bariring of course the sectors which are not operating presently.

    I don't remember the government advising people not to go restaurants, shops or hotels since they've been reopened. I'm reffering more somto commercial operators rather than PSO operators.


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    #1681
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    GT89 wrote: »
    I wouldn't agree nessecarily for example restaurants have to keep 1m between tables and social distancing on public transport is supposed to be 1m with nearly everyone wearing a face covering but yet in a restaurant no one apart from the waiting staff will be wearing a face covering. That's of course if you believe face coverings are an effective tool.

    But really the 1m rule doesn't exist on buses. Even with seats marked off, people in reality are much less then 1m from each other.

    And of course if you have every single office worker back at work, along with all schools, then there is absolutely no way 1m could be maintained on buses.

    In a restaurant, obviously a mask can't be worn while eating (duhhh..). However the idea is that there should be 1 meter between tables and the people sitting the table should be part of a family group or pod and not mix between tables. The wait staff need to wear masks, as they are moving between tables.

    The overall idea is that a family who live together, could go together to a restaurant and sit together at the same table while eating. Obviously in this scenario a mask isn't needed for them, as they aren't wearing a mask at home, living together anyway. Though ARAIR you are supposed to put on a mask if you get up from the table to go to the toilets, etc.

    Of course it is far from perfect and not without risk, there are no guarantees. But overall the idea is to limit spread and in particular super-spreading events and in the worst case scenario, untraceable super-spreading events.
    GT89 wrote: »
    Thought I heard as well that the tracker app dosen't work properly on the Luas due to the type of metal the roof is made of. Could be the same reason why the Luas dosen't have wifi.

    Doesn't make much sense to me. The roof would have nothing to do with the tracking app, it doesn't use GPS (satellites over head). Instead it uses bluetooth connections between phones. While metal could block the signal between a phone outside the Luas and one inside it, that obviously wouldn't matter, since only folks inside the Luas you need to worry about anyway and there would be no impact on bluetooth working between your phone and the person standing next to you on the Luas.

    I mean, just think of all the people on the Luas who use Bluetooth heaphones, they work fine, right? This is no different.

    Having said that, having played with Bluetooth in app development before, I'm a bit iffy on it's overall effectiveness. Still better then nothing, but no real guarantee on contact tracing.
    GT89 wrote: »
    I'm not against WFH but in some cases it is not possible. I wouldn't go about judging employers based on wanting employees back in the office unless you know the situation the employer is in. A lot of people are do a mix of WFH and going into the office. But some employers may need employees in the office at least partially

    Of course some need to be in the office, I've got colleagues myself that need to get hands on with Servers and networking equipment as an example. However for the employees who can do their job 100% from home, then forcing them to come in is absolutely terrible behaviour.

    They are only increasing the risk to the employees that have no choice but to be in the office and putting greater pressure on public transport, etc.


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