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Saturday the 18th

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Comments

  • #52
    lemush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 680 ✭✭✭lemush


    Morgans wrote: »
    Altior struggles to beat Politilogue and Sceau Royale by a 1l and 11/2l in the champion chase having been outpaced. It is seen as one of the greatest racehorses of all time and one of the great performances. Defi de Seuil beats same horses by 10l in the Tingle Creek and you get people saying he hasnt beaten a 2 miler yet. Un de Sceuax despite being 11, and now 12, has had his optimum conditions in the last two races. He isnt as good as he was, but yesterday he was treated with disdain. In fact, Altior beating UDS in his last Tingle Creek to me was his best performance.

    Give me Defi, all day, every day, to beat altior at all distances.

    You do realise being seen as one of the greats after that CC was probably due to the fact that it was his 18th consecutive victory? It was never heralded as a one of the great performances but nice try.

    Using Sceau Royal having his first run of the campaign running no race as a yardstick with which to elevate Defis performance is laughable but by that logic you could also use the horse that was one length behind Sceau Royal in Dolos to downgrade the performance but that wouldn’t fit the narrative.


  • #53
    Morgans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,429 ✭✭✭Morgans


    HarshOstrich wrote: »
    He wasn't treated with distain, to yourself and the other people who fail to see what happened,UDS made a mistake and slowed down as defi quickened and that was the race over, there was very little he could do in the end.
    All the defi supporters are pretending UDS ran his best race yesterday.
    The mistake was the moment of the race,if he winged it beleive me there would of been a battle.

    Race was over when Townsend upped a gear 3 out and tried to get Geraghty at it. For a few strides it was in the balance but before they straightened out DDS was upsides, going better. He took off in front at the second last without Geraghty ever needing to get serious. Race was done then UDS was slow and after that DDS came home as he wanted.

    UDS was outspeeded and immediate reaction was that UDS should have put more pace into the race. I don't think it would have mattered. He was beaten by a far better improving horse where UDS, is a few pounds off his best, even in heavy. At their best, I'd have DDS as the better, more talented horse in any case.


  • #54
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    I wouldn't be writing Altior off for a second. Not an inch, he is one of the best horses of the last 20 years and he only needs to get it right once. If he turns up to Cheltenham fit and well he would have a great chance, wherever he goes.

    I remember people writing Sprinter Sacre off a few years back, bad idea, Henderson knows what to do.


  • #55
    Morgans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,429 ✭✭✭Morgans


    lemush wrote: »
    You do realise being seen as one of the greats after that CC was probably due to the fact that it was his 18th consecutive victory? It was never heralded as a one of the great performances but nice try.

    Using Sceau Royal having his first run of the campaign running no race as a yardstick with which to elevate Defis performance is laughable but by that logic you could also use the horse that was one length behind Sceau Royal in Dolos to downgrade the performance but that wouldn’t fit the narrative.

    The claim was made that he hasn't beaten a 2m yet, while altior has been struggling to beat the same and worse horses for the past two years.


  • #56
    Morgans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,429 ✭✭✭Morgans


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I wouldn't be writing Altior off for a second. Not an inch, he is one of the best horses of the last 20 years and he only needs to get it right once. If he turns up to Cheltenham fit and well he would have a great chance, wherever he goes.

    I remember people writing Sprinter Sacre off a few years back, bad idea, Henderson knows what to do.

    I am writing off Altior, as a 2m. A place lay for me. I'd hope there is something to be against him in the Game Spirit Even when he was at his best he was never impressive at Cheltenham. Of course he would have a chance. Hardly controversial.


  • #57
    lemush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 680 ✭✭✭lemush


    Morgans wrote: »
    The claim was made that he hasn't beaten a 2m yet, while altior has been struggling to beat the same and worse horses for the past two years.

    You’re handpicking lines of form to try prove a narrative.


  • #58
    Morgans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,429 ✭✭✭Morgans


    lemush wrote: »
    You’re handpicking lines of fine to try prove a narrative.

    You aren't dealing with the issue. What are the horses that DDS needs to beat to prove himself a 2m like Altior?

    Altior beat Sceau Royal (Sandown and Chelt) politologue (Chelt), which despite being campaigned over 2m4f last year, he has happened to beat this year. Un de sceaux. Defi likewise has beaten him twice. Whether they ran to form is irrelevant. I wouldn't view them as legitimate contenders for the champion chase in any case. Altior however, as evidenced earlier, is viewed as a superstar performance for beating them. He hasn't put up a superstar performance for 18 months.

    So we are looking at Willie's as the challengers.

    Throwing insults around when you only half know what you are talking about us dangerous. Dolos?


  • #59
    lemush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 680 ✭✭✭lemush


    Morgans wrote: »
    You aren't dealing with the issue. What are the horses that DDS needs to beat to prove himself a 2m like Altior?

    Altior beat Sceau Royal (Sandown and Chelt) politologue (Chelt), which despite being campaigned over 2m4f last year, he has happened to beat this year. Un de sceaux. Defi likewise has beaten him twice. Whether they ran to form is irrelevant. I wouldn't view them as legitimate contenders for the champion chase in any case. Altior however, as evidenced earlier, is viewed as a superstar performance for beating them. He hasn't put up a superstar performance for 18 months.

    So we are looking at Willie's as the challengers.

    Throwing insults around when you only half know what you are talking about us dangerous. Dolos?

    I ask you again, what “superstar performance” was Altior credited with when beating SR and Poli? Still looking for them insults, Dolos?


  • #60
    Scott Tenorman
    Registered Users Posts: 508 ✭✭✭Scott Tenorman


    RivetingRoger wrote: »
    Barely gets any credit....
    What ****e is that ya spouting

    Not sh*te in the same league as claiming DDS is the best horse in training LOL :p


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  • #61
    Morgans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,429 ✭✭✭Morgans


    lemush wrote: »
    I ask you again, what “superstar performance” was Altior credited with when beating SR and Poli? Still looking for them insults, Dolos?

    Its very boring to explain, given that its not the purpose of the post and its only nitpicking for it to be picked up on to the exclusion of the rest of the post.

    There were plenty on here and the internet in general who treated last year's champion chase as the performance of a superstar (rather than a superstar performance per se) and I apologise if I didnt phrase it as such. I hope I didnt upset anyone but again it was a very minor part of the point that was being made. I will try to be more careful in future.

    It was clear before the race vs Cyrname that the relatively mediocre performances that Altior was capable of were forgotten, as if there was some cheek in expecting Cyrname to be able to compete. Simply looking at his winning sequence was enough and proclaiming again how he is a superstar regardless of form. The worry for ante post punters was after Altior won the King George, Henderson would have to be tempted to go for the Gold Cup. Still have remnants of the attitude in this thread.

    Now, getting on to handpicking form to suit a narrative. Something that I wasnt doing. Its something that several nitpickers get involve in. The point was made that DDS has yet to beat a 2m yet has beaten the same horses Altior beat in last year's Champion Chase and Sandown (if youd prefer) by further, having run in three races over the distance. I am not interested in figuring out who is the better horse by weighing up Dolos, Sceau Royale, Politilogue, Marracudja etc, which is what I would have done if I was handpicking form to suit a narrative.

    Altior is now wildly overrated and Defi du Seuil underrated. Whether this is a correct opinion we will find out at cheltenham I guess, but your nitpicking attitude is a reminder why having to explain why beforehand is so tedious. I'll remember that before posting again.


  • #62
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Morgans wrote: »
    I am writing off Altior, as a 2m. A place lay for me. I'd hope there is something to be against him in the Game Spirit Even when he was at his best he was never impressive at Cheltenham. Of course he would have a chance. Hardly controversial.

    A lot can happen, even between now and then. It may be that he never runs again, Henderson is definitely looking after him.

    But losing by 2 1/2 lengths to the apparent best horse in training is hardly the time to be writing a horse off. 7/2 could be a huge price if he runs.

    He is obviously not running in the Ryanair as 14/1 would demonstrate?

    He if doesn't run before Cheltenham and yet gets an entry and runs, I would expect all sorts of 6/1 and 11/2 available on the day for the Queen Mother.


  • #63
    Clique
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭Clique


    Looks like the Racing Blogger put the mockers on any chance Ribble Valley had at Cheltenham. Looks to be bypassing the festival.

    https://m.attheraces.com/news/2020/January/19/richards-mulling-premier-run-for-ribble


  • #64
    Morgans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,429 ✭✭✭Morgans


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    He if doesn't run before Cheltenham and yet gets an entry and runs, I would expect all sorts of 6/1 and 11/2 available on the day for the Queen Mother.

    The horse is BEST PRICED 7/2 now for the Champion Chase 6 weeks before the race, and you expect to get 6/1 on the day when he is certain to line up?


  • #65
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Morgans wrote: »
    The horse is BEST PRICED 7/2 now for the Champion Chase 6 weeks before the race, and you expect to get 6/1 on the day when he is certain to line up?

    He has only been out once, and there might be enough negative opinion. The horse was entered and then withdrawn a few weeks ago. Why are they not running him? Is he certain to go?


  • #66
    Morgans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,429 ✭✭✭Morgans


    Im not really following you. All those questions would suggest that he would have higher odds now and a lot shorter on the day.


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  • #67
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Morgans wrote: »
    Im not really following you. All those questions would suggest that he would have higher odds now and a lot shorter on the day.

    Wait for the waffles around the stable tours at least.

    6/1 probably is a stretch, but 7/2 on what he has shown so far, ANTEPOST is a joke. He may not even run.


  • #68
    NaiveMelodies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,172 ✭✭✭NaiveMelodies


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Wait for the waffles around the stable tours at least.

    6/1 probably is a stretch, but 7/2 on what he has shown so far, ANTEPOST is a joke. He may not even run.

    You said you'd expect 6/1 or 11/2 on the DAY of the QM. An absolute impossibility unless he loses 3 legs between now and then. Whether he runs or not has no relevance to your original post.
    Stop deflecting and just accept you were talking drivel.


  • #69
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    NaiveMelodies wrote: »
    You said you'd expect 6/1 or 11/2 on the DAY of the QM. An absolute impossibility unless he loses 3 legs between now and then. Whether he runs or not has no relevance to your original post.
    Stop deflecting and just accept you were talking drivel.

    He probably won't even run, but never miss an opportunity to spew a bit yourself.


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