Landlord Entering Property Without Permission

oleard1987 · 22-11-2019 3:18pm

w/s/p/c/ wrote: »

I have been looking at this thread since yesterday (while I should have been working!), I never responded as other posts covered what I was going to say. I am dying to find out the response from the Land Lord, best of luck sodafountain!

I am the same :pac:

Unanimous · 22-11-2019 9:03pm

Lool, I find this very interesting.

Is it possible that you set a trap for him?

One that he can't complain about lol.

Are catch him in the act and hear what he has to say for himself.

sami2015 · 22-11-2019 10:10pm

Regarding how he knew if the OP was in or not.....

Is there an alarm on the house? If so is it connected to the www by an app? I know of some cases in the RTB where the LL was monitoring the alarm and could then deduce when the tenants were in/out.

Moomoomacshoe · 22-11-2019 11:37pm

gibgodsman wrote: »

I don't know how the above poster can suggest such a calm approach to something so serious

Not only is he entering your home without your knowledge, he is quite clearly watching your movements in order to check when the best time to be creepy is.

Every serial killer does the same thing....

Go straight to the guards, the lease should be the least of your worries, the safety of your family should be your main worry.

Also, he would have absolutely no chance of kicking you out as you look for legal action as he has in sense defecated on his own lease and you have protection from being evicted due to his own actions

Yes agree..its not so simple. My friends landlord entered without permission with own keys. Taken to RTB. Ll denied it. Seems you would need to photograph or video it ..get proof. Ridiculous but onus on tenant to above and beyond prove LL came in..apart from video I myself would call the guards.

Fol20 · 23-11-2019 1:30am

Moomoomacshoe wrote: »

Yes agree..its not so simple. My friends landlord entered without permission with own keys. Taken to RTB. Ll denied it. Seems you would need to photograph or video it ..get proof. Ridiculous but onus on tenant to above and beyond prove LL came in..apart from video I myself would call the guards.

Well to be fair. If you accuse someone of something without proof it’s hearsay. When you looking for compensation in particular everyone would be claiming this and that if the onus wasn’t on the accuser to prove what they claim.

CollyFlower · 23-11-2019 1:55am

For the people on here who say it's not Creepy, it is to me. He has no right to be there, he's trespassing... I don't think he'd have cameras installed inside the house, otherwise he wouldn't need to be in there... He must have seen the camera's you have installed while he's in there, are they obvious? ... Be careful you've not made any damage by screwing your camera equipment to the structure of the property.

Rodin · 23-11-2019 1:58am

I'd be installing a camera backed up to the cloud.
Gather evidence.

Then legal action.

dubstarr · 23-11-2019 2:16am

Rodin wrote: »

I'd be installing a camera backed up to the cloud.
Gather evidence.

Then legal action.

They already have the cameras installed,talked to their solicitor and the Guards.

How long after you leave does he arrive.
Could you "forget" something Monday and come back and catch him in your house.
That way you have caught him and have the added bonus of having him recorded.

23-11-2019 2:48am

Rodin wrote: »

I'd be installing a camera backed up to the cloud.
Gather evidence.

Then legal action.

Did you read any of the thread at all?

Berserker5 · 23-11-2019 3:51am

He has a lot of properties so likely other tenants affected too

23-11-2019 8:00am

kennethsmyth wrote: »

I dont get how this "you'll be out on the street senario" will arise. If he tries to do anything you can call the gardai for interfering with your home and property. He cannot change the locks either.

Get an alarm or train the dog .

If he throws everything out on the yard then they will be on street.

Graces7 · 23-11-2019 8:34am

893bet wrote: »

Extremely creepy.

Has be been in bedrooms?

Who knows what his intentions are but it’s not normal.

We once had a landlord who used to invade like this. When challenged? " I can come in here any time I like and I do not have to give a reason." When we were in he would walk past the kitchen window atop his wall so we would see these legs passing..

I spoke to RTB and it emerged he had not registered the tenancy so they sorted him .

Assuming this landlord IS registered?

MSVforever · 23-11-2019 8:59am

Jesus what a cheeky boll#x...

Do you have a house alarm? If so I would change the code so if he enters it would go off and he would have to contact you.
Btw have got keys for all the internal doors? I would lock every room when you are away.

Markcheese · 23-11-2019 9:19am

I'm assuming the op is long gone from this thread, (it's getting up in posts for her to be reading them all), the hot head responses are fairly natural, I think I'd have a fit,,,, but
Its either phone him and tell him to cop on, (back it up with e-mail) and leave it at that (if he behaves)
Or Ptrb, he can't just boot you out.. Although he may try...
I assume you just want to finish your lease and leave..

23-11-2019 10:25am

Markcheese wrote: »

I'm assuming the op is long gone from this thread, (it's getting up in posts for her to be reading them all), the hot head responses are fairly natural, I think I'd have a fit,,,, but
Its either phone him and tell him to cop on, (back it up with e-mail) and leave it at that (if he behaves)
Or Ptrb, he can't just boot you out.. Although he may try...
I assume you just want to finish your lease and leave..

her last post is like 20 posts ago

Bogwoppit · 25-11-2019 12:36pm

sodafountain wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I wasn't expecting to get so many!

Ok so just to answer/clarify a few things I've seen mentioned a couple of times:

* We won't be changing the locks - it's specifically prohibited in our lease and we don't want to do anything that might give him grounds to evict us.

* He has been going in to the bedrooms, but not for long enough to be doing anything creepy like sniffing my underwear or anything - we have a camera in the landing and we can see him walking into the bedrooms but from the looks of it he walks in and turns around and comes straight back out again.

* I completely understand that he wants to keep an eye on the property (particularly seeing as how we're first time renters and we also have 3 kids and a dog) I have no problem with him wanting to carry out inspections, however he needs to notify us first. Also, he seems to have been accessing the property roughly once a fortnight, which would be an excessive amount of inspections. I would even feel once a month would be too much; looking at the RTB website, they recommend once per quarter and I would be happy with that.

* I'm not sure how he knows my routine - I've 3 young kids, so I suppose it wouldn't take a genius to work out that I'd be out in the mornings and afternoons doing the school run. However, I've noticed that he only comes into the house when I'm out in the morning and have the dog with me. I leave the dog in the house when I'm going to collect the kids from school, so I'm assuming he doesn't go in then because the dog would go ballistic. She's crated, so she couldn't attack him or anything, but the barking would be enough that neighbours would notice.

As far as I know, his house/office is about a 15 minute drive from us, so I suppose he could be driving by regularly to check on the place. It's in a cul-de-sac so he wouldn't be going past on his way to/from anywhere; you'd have to specifically drive down our road to see the house. A couple of people on here have mentioned that he might have hidden cameras in the house, which is frankly a terrifying prospect. The only thing that makes me think he probably hasn't is surely if he had done, he would have noticed us putting up our own cameras?

So anyway, to give you a bit of an update, my husband mentioned it to the solicitor yesterday and the solicitor said that while we'd have him "bang to rights" if we wanted to take a case to the RTB, my proposed scenario of email/letter from ourselves first is probably the best way to go because we can escalate from there if things continue. He said if it was a case that we were happy to move out and go elsewhere straight away, we'd be entitled to break the lease because he is in violation of it, but seeing as we want to stay in the place til the lease ends in the summer, the aim is to resolve it firmly but without aggro. He also mentioned the same thing I'd said previously - that it would give us the upper hand if there was a dispute over getting the deposit back when we move out; basically "we behaved reasonably towards you and didn't go straight to the RTB when we found out you were accessing the house, now we'd appreciate the prompt return of our deposit".

I also called in to my local Garda station and got chatting to a very helpful Garda; he said that in terms of him going in and out, it was a civil matter (which I already knew) but regarding him seeming to know my routine, if I could prove that he was following me or watching the house then that would be something they could possibly pursue because it could be considered harassment. He also mentioned hidden cameras and said that he could be prosecuted for that, particularly if they captured images of the kids. His recommended that we put a camera in an upstairs window, facing out on the street, and that way we might be able to see if he's sitting nearby in his car, watching the house. He also suggested to me that I try and vary my routine a bit.

To be honest, I think reporting him to the Gardai would be an absolute last resort, but if he starts being awkward about things, it might be no harm to drop into conversation that I've spoken to them about it. Even if it's just to put the frighteners on him.

So I'm in the process of drafting up an email this morning, telling him that we've observed him entering the property, providing dates, times and screen shots, and stating that we did not and do not give him permission to enter without both of us present. I'm also going to ask him to reply and confirm that it will not happen again, and that if it continues we will have no choice but to lodge a complaint with the RTB. I also discovered last night that he never registered the tenancy, so hopefully the threat of the RTB will be enough, because he'll be fined for not registering it.

Any response yet?

doughef · 28-11-2019 4:20pm

OP ??

GooglePlus · 28-11-2019 4:24pm

He's only gone and killed her..

NuttyMcNutty · 28-11-2019 4:51pm

Are you sure he hasn't got any hidden cameras?, he has to be entering the house for a reason, if he wants to enter the house to see if its in condition he only has to ask.

Not trying to alarm you but get this sorted now, ring him and tell him to arrange a viewing and stop snooping, don't let this rumble on just get it over with.

doiredoire · 28-11-2019 7:17pm

I would be worried he has cameras installed. Is there anyway of detecting cameras?

Skerries · 29-11-2019 2:18pm

uh-oh! a week and no reply

Azizur Rahman · 29-11-2019 5:01pm

I'd speak to the Gardaí again. By the landlord entering the house multiple times, it might not be considered trepass but it would definitely fall under harassment as per the Non Fatal Offences Against the Person Act. The relevant section is below.

As harassment is can be tried on indictment, there is no statue of limitations. OP, when you move out I'd follow up by making a complaint of a criminal offence re harassment against you and yours. If the LL gets away with it with no prosecution what's to say he won't keep doing it?

(2) For the purposes of this section a person harasses another where—

(a) he or she, by his or her acts intentionally or recklessly, seriously interferes with the other's peace and privacy or causes alarm, distress or harm to the other, and

(b) his or her acts are such that a reasonable person would realise that the acts would seriously interfere with the other's peace and privacy or cause alarm, distress or harm to the other.

30-11-2019 11:53am

Azizur Rahman wrote: »

I'd speak to the Gardagain. By the landlord entering the house multiple times, it might not be considered trepass but it would definitely fall under harassment as per the Non Fatal Offences Against the Person Act. The relevant section is below.

As harassment is can be tried on indictment, there is no statue of limitations. OP, when you move out I'd follow up by making a complaint of a criminal offence re harassment against you and yours. If the LL gets away with it with no prosecution what's to say he won't keep doing it?

(2) For the purposes of this section a person harasses another where—

(a) he or she, by his or her acts intentionally or recklessly, seriously interferes with the other's peace and privacy or causes alarm, distress or harm to the other, and

(b) his or her acts are such that a reasonable person would realise that the acts would seriously interfere with the other's peace and privacy or cause alarm, distress or harm to the other.

Not a hope the Gardai will pursue this complete waste of time even attempting it. What the LL is doing is wrong but it isn’t harassment, totally over exaggerating claiming it is.

I know of some cases of actual harassment that the Gardai have little interest in/power to follow up on so as above they haven’t a notion of doing so in this case.

This is a breach of tenancy law, the LL could enter the property of every tenant he ever has and not commit a criminal offence.

Thargor · 30-11-2019 4:10pm

sodafountain wrote: »

I'm hoping someone can advise me on what to do here...

Back story is I'm a first time renter and I'm not sure how to approach this situation. My husband and I own our own home and have lived there happily with our 3 kids and our dog, however, back in June our neighbours were having huge renovations done to their house, but their builders managed to cause very significant structural damage to our house in the process. It is so bad that we've had to move out while repair works are done, because the house is not safe to live in until all the damage is put right.

Wow you should have made a thread about this aswell! What happened there?

Bogwoppit · 01-12-2019 10:44am

No sign of the OP, starting to wonder if this was a wind up.

sodafountain · 02-12-2019 12:03am

Bogwoppit wrote: »

No sign of the OP, starting to wonder if this was a wind up.

Nope, not a wind-up I'm afraid; I wish it was.

I meant to come back and update sooner but two of the kids have come down with the chicken pox (thank Christ the eldest had already gotten it) so I've had my hands full.

So basically after I sent that email, I heard nothing for a couple of days. Now it was on a Friday that I sent it, so I wasn't expecting to hear over the weekend but by the Tuesday evening I still hadn't heard anything, which I thought was pretty weird. I'd sent a registered letter on the Monday morning (exact copy of what I'd sent in the email) so I knew he'd have received that on the Tuesday.

Also, something to bear in mind is that my husband is actually the "main" tenant (ie his name is first on the lease) so wrote the letter/email as though they were from him, and sent the email from his email account (you'll see why I'm mentioning this below)

Anyway, the husband and I had to go in to the solicitor on Wednesday morning and my phone rings while I'm in there and it's the landlord! I answered it and he says he received the letter and the email and wanted to have a chat about it. Now there was no reason why he should have been contacting me instead of my husband - it was my husband's details that we put on the correspondence, and he only had my phone number as an emergency contact. I figured that he was ringing me to try and intimidate me, as opposed to getting in touch with my husband. Sure enough, he starts off on a big rant and I just said "Sorry *landlord*, just before you go on I wanted to let you know you're on speaker. My husband is here, too. And so is our solicitor."

Well, the tone changed instantly! :pac: He was suddenly very apologetic and apparently he was just trying to be "helpful" because he knows I'm a busy mum, and he didn't want to be bothering me organising inspections, so he just popped in when I was out. I asked why he was just so happened to call when the dog wasn't there and again, it was to be "helpful" because he was "concerned" that the dog would bark and annoy the neighbours. My husband goes "so have you been watching the house? How do you know the dog isn't there unless you've been watching my wife and learning her routine?" There was a lot of stuttering and stammering, and he tried to say it was just co-incidence.

Then I said (jokingly but not) that at least we wouldn't need the Gardai to come out and take fingerprints, because before we put the cameras in, we had been afraid that someone was casing the house and trying to get in. Well as soon as I mentioned the Guards, he nearly sh*t himself. It was pretty funny to hear the panic in his voice, and he assured us we didn't need to get them involved. He also said he could see we were "obviously excellent tenants" and there wouldn't be any need for him to do any more inspections, but that if he needed to do any, he'd arrange for someone else to do it while we were both present. He said this was because he "understood we wouldn't be comfortable with him in the house" but I reckon it's more likely because he's mortified and probably never wants to set eyes on us again.

So that was that. Our solicitor got a great laugh out of it, and I still can't get over the absolutely perfect timing of that phone call, because I think if he'd called and I'd been on my own, I'd say things would have gone very differently.

I have to say I really appreciate all the advice I got here, and I'm happy to say that (so far) he hasn't turned into a serial killer :pac: I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in his office for that phone call though.

Thargor wrote: »

Wow you should have made a thread about this aswell! What happened there?

Good question! Don't ask me how, but their builders somehow managed to drive an excavator through the front wall of our house. They weren't able to explain how it happened - best guess is either someone left the brake off or something, or else someone actually lost control of the thing but they're lying to try and cover their ass. Luckily, we weren't in the house at the time - I was out collecting the kids from school and arrived back home to find an excavator in my living room and a pile of rubble and broken glass where my front bay window used to be. Fire brigade and ambulance pulled up just behind me, my neighbour panicked and called them because he wasn't sure if me or the kids were in the house at the time.

Bogwoppit · 02-12-2019 12:13am

Thanks for the update Sodafountain, hope the kids are on the mend.

I think you let that landlord off lightly, you had him over a barrel and I would have screwed him for everything I could!

If you’re happy with the outcome then that’s all that matters though.

Hopefully 2020 will bring some better luck.

CollyFlower · 02-12-2019 12:22am

Great result, Sodafountain, it's a pity you can't name the Landlord.

Augme · 02-12-2019 12:30am

sodafountain wrote: »

Good question! Don't ask me how, but their builders somehow managed to drive an excavator through the front wall of our house. They weren't able to explain how it happened - best guess is either someone left the brake off or something, or else someone actually lost control of the thing but they're lying to try and cover their ass. Luckily, we weren't in the house at the time - I was out collecting the kids from school and arrived back home to find an excavator in my living room and a pile of rubble and broken glass where my front bay window used to be. Fire brigade and ambulance pulled up just behind me, my neighbour panicked and called them because he wasn't sure if me or the kids were in the house at the time.

Can't even find the words to sum up my reaction to this...

uck51js9zml2yt · 02-12-2019 10:39am

Augme wrote: »

Can't even find the words to sum up my reaction to this...

Please take some time out and find them. Would love to know

Thoie · 02-12-2019 11:59am

sodafountain wrote: »

Our solicitor got a great laugh out of it, and I still can't get over the absolutely perfect timing of that phone call, because I think if he'd called and I'd been on my own, I'd say things would have gone very differently.

You've had a rough year, but hopefully the exquisite timing is the start of a great 12+ months!

El Weirdo · 02-12-2019 12:14pm

Thoie wrote: »

You've had a rough year, but hopefully the exquisite timing is the start of a great 12+ months!

By the sounds of things, if she stays in and doesn't drop off or pick up the kids from school, everything should be alright.

paulieeye · 04-12-2019 2:26pm

great thread! I give it 4 excavators out of 5!

Berserker5 · 04-12-2019 10:20pm

What about all his other tenants then?

Arklow10 · 10-12-2019 4:11pm

Very foolish of the LL to do this. It leaves him open to many claims ...
Personally I would write to the LL as you have suggested yourself - email is fine. I would even soften the tone of the content on this occasion, however if there was a repeat then I would be very firm .
Retain footage with dates & times just in case.

Just checking you are under a one year fixed term lease (waiting for your own house to be repaired it may not be?). If so then very well protected.

monty_python · 10-12-2019 4:24pm

Arklow10 wrote: »

Very foolish of the LL to do this. It leaves him open to many claims ...
Personally I would write to the LL as you have suggested yourself - email is fine. I would even soften the tone of the content on this occasion, however if there was a repeat then I would be very firm .
Retain footage with dates & times just in case.

Just checking you are under a one year fixed term lease (waiting for your own house to be repaired it may not be?). If so then very well protected.

Did you bother to read the thread at all??

Graces7 · 10-12-2019 5:05pm

OP; brilliant! Made my day reading this. Thank you

Landlord Entering Property Without Permission

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