Shopping bags

bonkey · 22-01-2002 2:17pm #1

I remember some noises some time ago about the govt wanting to encourage ppl to move away from the vast quantities of plastic bags we use in Ireland.

I remember that the concept was almost universally rubbished. It would cost jobs, people wouldnt accept the cost of a surcharge on them, blah blah blah.

Does anyone know if this was yet another shelved plan, or if anything is going ahead with it.

Personally speaking, I hate the fecking things. I love the approach over here in Switzerland. You can get your plastic bags, but they're small, and about as strong as the bags you put your fruit n veg in at Tesco's. You can *buy* large paper carry-bags, which cost about .15 to .20 €, and which are nigh-on indestructible. Then, of course, most people also have their own cotton bags.

I remember sticking up on books before Xmas. Spent about 200 CHF on books, at which point the shoppie asked me if I'd like a cotton bag. I'd spent enough - it was free. Now, it usually sits in my jacket pocket. No more plastic for me

I'm just curious.....is anything being done in Ireland about this, and if not, why not? Also, what are your opinions on it? Can the Irish change? Can we stop needing our plastic and start thinking about recycling and/or the environment. I mean, how many houses do you know who *don* have a collection of hundreds of bags, usually dumped into a larger bag.

Sad really....

Gordon · 22-01-2002 3:07pm

Don't know what is happening but I love the bags myself. I use them for putting my rubbish in every day. If I have a surplus then I take them to the recycling centre.

It will take years and years to get the Irish to recycle and the Government need to help in some way. Just look at O'Connell street and the people chucking their big mac packaging with uneaten burger onto the sidewalk. I walked through the garden next to St Patrick's cathedral and tripped over an uneaten chicken carcass!

For plastic packaging and bags I saw a great thing in the Ilac centre where there were bin stations for plastic, paper and glass I think I remember. If this was more prominant in society then people will use them eventually. I just don't think that people understand what recycling is and why it is beneficial to the surroundings.

Typedef · 22-01-2002 3:27pm

I have a vague idea that Irish people are supposed to use roughly 1.2 billion plastic bags a year. That is a fantastic figure, almost three hundred plastic bags for every person living in Ireland, each year. Clearly the government should do more to encourage reuse of plastic bags, shops should do more to encourage it and people themselves should take the owness onto themselves to reduce the huge volumes of plastic bags consumed by Irish people each year. Hmm it seems as if there may be moves in to introduce a levy on plastic bags in Ireland here http://www.newsmedianews.com/bags.htm . High time too, I mean 1.2 billion plastic bags, it's a shocking figure really.

Interestingly enough I heard an unsubstanciated rumour that Anna Livia was removed from O'Connel's st because of all the refuse that was building up in it. It's a shame really, I kind of liked the monument and if the rumour is true it's such a pity that the monument was removed for those reasons, what a waste of national heritage and identity, removing monuments from the main street of the capital due to human pollution, kind of sad really.

bonkey · 22-01-2002 4:16pm

Originally posted by Gordon
Don't know what is happening but I love the bags myself. I use them for putting my rubbish in every day. If I have a surplus then I take them to the recycling centre.

OK - I know the bags are somewhat green nowadays, but you're effectively using them to store rubbish - which then gets dumped. So you're dumping the bags

Fair play for recycling the spares tho - far more than most do.

I was amazed when I moved over here. a 40L rubbish bag (and 40L isnt that much - say about 1.5 to 2 Tesco bags crammed full) costs about 1-2 € to get collected by the binmen, so recycling very quickly becomes a cheap option.

My GF and I recycle plastic bottles, glassware, cans. We store paper for burning (cause our house is wood heated - old house) or recycle it if its "glossy" (cause thats too polluting to burn). We could just as easily recycle all of it if we didnt need it for winter fire-lighting.

Because the local supermarkets all have recycling bins, and usually give small refund credit on PET bottles, its not hassle to dump these things once every few weeks.

Add in a compost heap (ok - this one we're lucky to have) and paper-collection, and all of a sudden, our waste output goes down to < 1 bag per week, between the two of us. When I lived in Dublin, I'd fill 2 or 3 times that amount on my own.

One other thing I really like is that there are apparently spot-checks done on the rubbish dumped. Bags contents are checked (and your bag must have your name/address in order for the binmen to collect it!). If you're caught dumping anything you shouldnt, you get huge fines. So, for example, batteries cannot be dumped. Of course, hand-in-hand with that is a mandate that says any shop who sells batteries must also accept dead batteries, and there are then mechanisms in place for correct recycling and disposal.

I know Ireland would take years to get to this state, but it really is incredible to see it in action. With SFA impact on my daily life (other than occasionally thinking "where should I put this"), I have cut my wastage massively.

To put it in perspective...a recent stufy showed that somewhere between 85 and 90 percent of all soft-drink cans in the country are recycled, as well as a comparable percentage of PET bottles. If it was above 5% in Ireland, I'd be well impressed.

jc

Samson · 22-01-2002 4:39pm

I have just been on the phone to the department of the environment, and I got them to fax me details of the plastic shopping bag levy.
The main points are:

This is an environmental levy on plastic shopping bags.
The levy will be charged at 15 cent per bag.
It must be imposed at point of sale on the supply by retailers to customers of plastic shopping bags.

The levy will be introduced on 04 March 2002.

Not all plastic bags provided in shops will be subject to this levy.
For example: bags that meat/fish is placed at the Butcher/deli counter and bags that you put your loose fruit/veg into.

The retailer is obliged to pass on the levy to the customer and itemise the charge on your receipt.

The levy will be collected from retailers by the Revenue Commissioners.

Hopefully this plastic shopping bag tax will drastically reduce some of the obscene numbers of plastic bags floating around the country and have some positive effect on attitudes towards litter.

bonkey · 22-01-2002 4:50pm

Super.

Great job Samson - thanks.

Now it just remains to be seen if people pay the cash (and if the government does something useful with it) or start looking for the cheaper alternatives.

jc

Kolodny · 22-01-2002 7:17pm

My local supermarket (SQ) are pretty good for encouraging shoppers to use recyclable bags. They've got strong, re-usable fabric bags for about €1 on the checkouts - and they will replace them free of charge if/when they wear out. As they have people packing your bags for you - the staff actively try to steer you towards using them. Not everyone is going take to the idea straight away of course but it's a step in the right direction.

Victor · 22-01-2002 7:38pm

I try to avoid taking bags from the supermarket - usually I have some sort of shoulder bag or whatever with me and I tend to shop 'on the hoof' - I don't do a week's shopping in one go.

I fully concur with the charging for shopping bags. I think you can get an Easons heavy duty bag for well under €1, I think they were only about 20p last year.

Saruman · 28-01-2002 2:22pm

If i go into a shop and buy a bottle of club lemmon and whatever.. basically unless its too much to carry in my arms i will not take a bag..
also im not sure if they still do it but when i was in school years ago Superquinn had the right idea,, you had these green plastic crates which you took into the shop, stuck on a special trolley paid for it and then took your stuff in the car in the crates.. no bags at all! This was like 5 years ago!! Why is it taking so long for everyone to catch up?

shotamoose · 29-01-2002 4:21pm

Is it illegal to bin dead batteries in Ireland? If not, should it be? I always just chucked them in there, with the vague sensation that I shouldn't. But hey, what's the worst that could happen? Eh, maybe you shouldn't answer that....

bonkey · 29-01-2002 4:46pm

Originally posted by shotamoose
Is it illegal to bin dead batteries in Ireland? If not, should it be? I always just chucked them in there, with the vague sensation that I shouldn't. But hey, what's the worst that could happen? Eh, maybe you shouldn't answer that....

No - as far as I know its not.

I may not have been clear when I was talking about "moving over here". I moved from Ireland to Switzerland. Its illegal here in GnomesOfZurichLand, but not in Ireland.

jc

Blade · 29-01-2002 5:29pm

Over 10 years ago in Italian supermarkets they were charging for plastic bags, I didn't think it would take Ireland that long to cop on but there you go. Superquinn supply those fabric bags now and lots of people are using them, their much handier and I believe they replace them FOC if they wear out.

chernobyl · 29-01-2002 5:34pm

They also charge for plastic bags in germany but most peeps use paper bags anyways.

shotamoose · 29-01-2002 7:25pm

Originally posted by bonkey

I may not have been clear when I was talking about "moving over here". I moved from Ireland to Switzerland. Its illegal here in GnomesOfZurichLand, but not in Ireland.

jc

No, you were clear, I was wondering what reason the toblerone people gave for banning it.

bonkey · 30-01-2002 3:02pm

Originally posted by shotamoose
No, you were clear, I was wondering what reason the toblerone people gave for banning it.

Batteries were banned some time back - back when they contained all sorts of nasty metals you didnt want leaking into the source of most water in Europe.

jc

Victor · 30-01-2002 11:29pm

Originally posted by bonkey
Batteries were banned some time back - back when they contained all sorts of nasty metals you didnt want leaking into the source of most water in Europe.

And they still contain most of those nasty metals.

Stephen · 30-01-2002 11:47pm

I work in a shop. I'm dreading the arrival of this scheme. I'm going to get no-end of abuse from old women. Yes, those same old bints who abused the hell out of me over the euro will be back in my face again, accusing me (!) of trying to rip them off.

*stress*

Victor · 30-01-2002 11:54pm

Originally posted by Stephen
I work in a shop. I'm dreading the arrival of this scheme. I'm going to get no-end of abuse from old women. Yes, those same old bints who abused the hell out of me over the euro will be back in my face again, accusing me (!) of trying to rip them off.

Is your shop charging for bags directly (extra 15c per bag) or in-directly (absorbing the cost and just paying the tax)?

bonkey · 31-01-2002 10:34am

Originally posted by Victor

Is your shop charging for bags directly (extra 15c per bag) or in-directly (absorbing the cost and just paying the tax)?

The retailer is obliged to pass on the levy to the customer and itemise the charge on your receipt

Can shops even charge indiectly? They must itemise on your receipt how much you paid for bags. Thus, if htey try absorbing the cost and listing some artificial amount on your receipt, you would be able to say "excuse me, I used my own bag. I would like that money back please".

I think it will end up being direct-charging, personally, although I expect the likes of Tesco's to have "free bag vouchers" in the same way that they pay an hour or so of your parking in many of the centres theyre based in.

jc

azezil · 31-01-2002 12:33pm

Just on that battery issue, what'll happen in a few years when computer and mobile parts - silicon etc. start mixing with the corrosive elements of batteries... some rather nasty consequences there i'd imagine!

Tree_Hugger · 31-01-2002 3:50pm

Sure what's wrong with Plastic Bags? They are handy for carrying shopping, and when you are finished with them you can just fill them with all your sh1te and throw them out. And even if a few of them DO escape, the unique shape of most tree branches catches them all for you. So when you chop down the trees to make way for a deadly motorway, you can collect them again. I'm not carrying around a gay green superquinn bag.

Victor · 31-01-2002 5:02pm

Originally posted by bonkey
Can shops even charge indiectly? They must itemise on your receipt how much you paid for bags. Thus, if htey try absorbing the cost and listing some artificial amount on your receipt, you would be able to say "excuse me, I used my own bag. I would like that money back please".

I think it will end up being direct-charging, personally, although I expect the likes of Tesco's to have "free bag vouchers" in the same way that they pay an hour or so of your parking in many of the centres theyre based in.

Shurrrup!!!!! This is a sting. :mad:

Victor · 31-01-2002 5:05pm

Originally posted by azezil
Just on that battery issue, what'll happen in a few years when computer and mobile parts - silicon etc. start mixing with the corrosive elements of batteries... some rather nasty consequences there i'd imagine!

Silicon isn't a problem - effectively it is the main component of sand. Other stuff, like heavy metals would be a concern.

Shopping bags

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