McDonald's Planning Permission - Blacklion Manor

LifeBeginsAt40 · 19-01-2013 4:25pm #1

Noticed a planning application dated 18th Jan 2013 for a McDonald's Burger Restaurant at Blacklion Manor / Lidl, Greystones.

Interested in views of local residents, as the area is mainly residential plus would be directly adjacent to the existing Educate Together / Irish primary schools and the new school also planned.

Is building a McDonald's directly in-front of a school complex not in total opposition to promoting healthy eating? Not to mention the amount of litter that WILL end up strewn along the mainly residential roads.

I for one, will be voicing my objections to the planning regulators. Bray already has an established McDonald's, is there a need for another one only a few kms away?

http://www.wicklow.ie/Apps/WicklowBeta/Planning/AppComment.aspx

Maudi · 19-01-2013 4:41pm

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Noticed a planning application dated 18th Jan 2013 for a McDonald's Burger Restaurant at Blacklion Manor / Lidl, Greystones.

Interested in views of local residents, as the area is mainly residential plus would be directly adjacent to the existing Educate Together / Irish Schools and the new school also planned.

Is building a McDonald's directly in-front of a school complex not in total opposition to promoting healthy eating? Not to mention the amount of litter that WILL end up strewn along the mainly residential roads.

I for one, will be voicing my objections to the planning regulators. Bray already has an established McDonald's, is there a need for another one only a few kms away?

interesting..is the planning app at the proposed site?or did you uncover it somewhere else?

LifeBeginsAt40 · 19-01-2013 4:47pm

Maudi wrote: »

interesting..is the planning app at the proposed site?or did you uncover it somewhere else?

It is at the Lidl/Blacklion Stores/Pebbles Cafe site, erected yesterday. A4 sized notice of planning application by McDonald's.

Sign close to main road, on the grass area by the butchers sign. OP now has images added of the application and application sign location.

quikquest · 19-01-2013 4:49pm

Its creating jobs, something that is needed in the area. Also if their is going to be so much rubbish strewn around - it will create more jobs for cleaning it up.

Maybe their is no need to another McDonalds a few Km's away, but obviously if they are opening one they think there is. Like I said, its creating jobs.

LifeBeginsAt40 · 19-01-2013 4:52pm

quikquest wrote: »

Its creating jobs, something that is needed in the area. Also if their is going to be so much rubbish strewn around - it will create more jobs for cleaning it up.

Maybe their is no need to another McDonalds a few Km's away, but obviously if they are opening one they think there is. Like I said, its creating jobs.

Job creation is great, developing a McDonald's opposite the entrance to primary schools is completely irresponsible, both by McDonald's and the council. Schools encourage children to eat healthily, parents are encouraged to do the same. How is allowing a McDonald's to be built adjacent to primary schools responsible planning?

saintsaltynuts · 19-01-2013 4:57pm

He's done well that McDonald fella.I remember when he only had a farm.

quikquest · 19-01-2013 4:57pm

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Job creation is great, developing a McDonald's opposite the entrance to primary schools is completely irresponsible, both by McDonald's and the council.

I don't see the hang up their at all! Kids go into newsagents and see adult magazines or walk down the street and see people smoking etc. Its up to THEIR parents to parent their kids and tell them what they can and can't have.

Having a Mcdonalds outside a school - whats the worst that can happen? Kids will want to go in and eat all the time? that's up to their parents and it is really not your business or mine (I don't mean that rudely)

It's up to the parents to bring up their kids properly and if they do or don't - is not our responsibility - we are only responsible for our own kids.

LifeBeginsAt40 · 19-01-2013 5:10pm

quikquest wrote: »

I don't see the hang up their at all! Kids go into newsagents and see adult magazines or walk down the street and see people smoking etc. Its up to THEIR parents to parent their kids and tell them what they can and can't have.

Having a Mcdonalds outside a school - whats the worst that can happen? Kids will want to go in and eat all the time? that's up to their parents and it is really not your business or mine (I don't mean that rudely)

It's up to the parents to bring up their kids properly and if they do or don't - is not our responsibility - we are only responsible for our own kids.

I don't believe it is creating new jobs, I feel it will put pressure on the likes of Pebbles Cafe and other already established local cafes.

Peer pressure is what a lot of parents can do without at the entrance to a school. What is the point in teachers encouraging healthy eating when less than 60 seconds walk away is a restaurant well known for it's unhealthy food.

There is a place for McDonald's and it is not at the entrance to a primary school. There will also be the matter of increased vehicle traffic in and out of the Blacklion complex, which with further impact on the safety of parents and children.

You and I know, there will not be the funds for extra litter collection in the residential areas. The result will be residents collecting the waste and dumping it back over the tills. Good community relations are not built up this way.

Annasopra · 19-01-2013 5:13pm

I'm all for nanny state regulation and preventing obesity couldn't agree with you more LBA40.

Completely disagree with this idea that everyone is only responsible for themselves. Obesity is a serious public health issue and we should be actively educating and informing young children about healthy food options

LifeBeginsAt40 · 19-01-2013 5:18pm

mango salsa wrote: »

I'm all for nanny state regulation and preventing obesity couldn't agree with you more LBA40.

Completely disagree with this idea that everyone is only responsible for themselves. Obesity is a serious public health issue and we should be actively educating and informing young children about healthy food options

I'd be far happier with a "healthy eating" restaurant or even a kids gym opening on the site. Why not a Zoom facility for kids to burn off excess energy?

My main objection is the site if DIRECTLY adjacent to a primary school. We're not talking a McDonald's on a by-pass or even 1/2 way down a high street. We are talking a drive-thru built right opposite.

If Wicklow CC cares about the health of the younger generation, they will see sense.

quikquest · 19-01-2013 5:24pm

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

I don't believe it is creating new jobs, I feel it will put pressure on the likes of Pebbles Cafe and other already established local cafes.

Peer pressure is what a lot of parents can do without at the entrance to a school. What is the point in teachers encouraging healthy eating when less than 60 seconds walk away is a restaurant well known for it's unhealthy food.

There is a place for McDonald's and it is not at the entrance to a primary school. There will also be the matter of increased vehicle traffic in and out of the Blacklion complex, which with further impact on the safety of parents and children.

You and I know, there will not be the funds for extra litter collection in the residential areas. The result will be residents collecting the waste and dumping it back over the tills. Good community relations are not built up this way.

Just because there is a Mcdonalds right across from a school does NOT mean all the kids will want to eat it and it does NOT mean that parents and teachers are failing in promoting healthy food.

If a parent gives in to peer pressure from their kids - its obvious they can't control their kids but again, that is not our responsibility.

How exactly will their be an increase in vechicle traffic into the Blacklion complex? It's McDonalds and unless their giving out free food I can't see any increase in traffic :rolleyes:

If it was the case surely then all shops beside schools should stop selling sweets because their not healty? Yet sweet shops have been beside schools for years and I don't see kids rolling down the streets that attend those schools because their is a sweet shop beside the school.

If any kids are not eating healthy it is NOT McDonald's fault or the schools or yours or mine. Its is simply bad parenting.

I lived right across from a McDonalds drive through for 2 years - can't say I noticed any rubbish issues tbh. If their are no funds for the rubbish clearing - well then you need to take that issue up with the council.

Regarding Pebbles Cafe - 2 different business models so shouldn't effect them. If it is effecting them then obviously their is a reason why and Pebbles needs to up its game. maybe business will increase because if, going by your thinking, parents are "Peer pressured", maybe the parents will send the kids to Mcdonalds and they will grab something in Pebbles.

Ireland needs jobs and even though its only a restaurant it will provide them to the local area both internally and it will create external jobs (Bin collection, maintence, increase spending etc) Staff will be buying fuel going to/from work, car will need to be maintained etc.

You know people need to stop fearing what can and can't happen as everything your worrying about is hypothetical - and their is no point worrying about it as really it doesn't effect your life. (again I don't mean that to sound snotty it comes across that way in text)

A company wanting to start a business in Ireland offering jobs in this day and age should be welcomed with open arms and parents should be parents and control what their kids can and can't have.

LifeBeginsAt40 · 19-01-2013 5:28pm

How exactly will their be an increase in vechicle traffic into the Blacklion complex? It's McDonalds and unless their giving out free food I can't see any increase in traffic

The application is for a DRIVE-THRU restaurant, meaning that people will be encouraged to DRIVE to the location. So unless I'm being stupid there will be extra vehicles!!!!

Not looking for any personal information, but do you live in this area? I do and I WILL be affected. Hence my objections.

quikquest · 19-01-2013 5:29pm

mango salsa wrote: »

I'm all for nanny state regulation and preventing obesity couldn't agree with you more LBA40.

Completely disagree with this idea that everyone is only responsible for themselves. Obesity is a serious public health issue and we should be actively educating and informing young children about healthy food options

Obesity is a serious health issue - so then lets stop shops selling chrisps/chocolate/fizzy drinks? Lets stop pebbles selling cookies?

quikquest · 19-01-2013 5:31pm

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

The application is for a DRIVE-THRU restaurant, meaning that people will be encouraged to DRIVE to the location. So unless I'm being stupid there will be extra vehicles!!!!

Its not as if EVERY parent will pick up their kids and drive to the drive through at the one time!

Also, what if one of the units their has a SALE? Should this be banned now just because their might be an increase in carS?:eek:

quikquest · 19-01-2013 5:32pm

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

The application is for a DRIVE-THRU restaurant, meaning that people will be encouraged to DRIVE to the location. So unless I'm being stupid there will be extra vehicles!!!!

Not looking for any personal information, but do you live in this area? I do and I WILL be affected. Hence my objections.

I did up to 6 years ago and my parents live there now.

I think ill bow out now because I have made my point and don't want to argue

I think you should focus on the GOOD it will do in the area and not the bad. And think about how will be good for economy. Let the teachers worry about teaching healthy food choices and then let then parents decide how to bring up their kids and if they want to implement the healthy food or bad food option. Some will flourish and some will fail. You can't win them all

But no point in objecting to things that really are providing jobs in the area in a time that we need them.

LifeBeginsAt40 · 19-01-2013 5:35pm

quikquest wrote: »

Its not as if EVERY parent will pick up their kids and drive to the drive through at the one time!

Also, what if one of the units their has a SALE? Should this be banned now just because their might be an increase in carS?:eek:

What???? People from far and wide will DRIVE to this McDonald's, with or without children. This is in addition to the already existing retail traffic and school traffic.

You are missing the point - McDonald's are entitled to open a store, just the same as casinos, pubs and lap dancing bars. My concern is NOT OUTSIDE a primary school complex.

A lot of 8 year old children walk to school on their own, at the moment there is not the temptation to purchase fries and a burger.

As for Pebbles Cafe, they sell cookies and coffee as you rightly state. As does McDonald's, so there is a clash of business interest.

pixbyjohn · 19-01-2013 5:40pm

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

The application is for a DRIVE-THRU restaurant, meaning that people will be encouraged to DRIVE to the location. So unless I'm being stupid there will be extra vehicles!!!!

Not looking for any personal information, but do you live in this area? I do and I WILL be affected. Hence my objections.

That road is already earmarked for major amount of traffic because it will eventually be the Blacklion to Delgany road serving several hundred proposed houses.
It is great to see someone like Mc Donalds invest in the area because they are usually a long term business and will create some employment. I have lived in the Greystones area all my life and think it is great to see more services setting up to serve the thousands of new and old residents in the area.

MyPerfectCousin · 19-01-2013 5:41pm

You make it sound like the council planners have a say in who is willing to risk investing in your neighbourhood. Obviously they have a say in approving or rejecting applications, but no one is going to open a "healthy eating restaurant" (or a Zoom facility) in that location because the council/a few locals want one.

I understand your concern about it, but it just doesn't work that way.

I also wonder if it is just the McDonalds name that is the issue. If it was Pineto or Joker's would you mind? Did you object to the Little Caesar's that was there?

Maudi · 19-01-2013 5:42pm

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

The application is for a DRIVE-THRU restaurant, meaning that people will be encouraged to DRIVE to the location. So unless I'm being stupid there will be extra vehicles!!!!

Not looking for any personal information, but do you live in this area? I do and I WILL be affected. Hence my objections.

i wonder would it create any objections if it was built near or in burnaby park?its already a hang out area for kids..or maybe down in the mill thats looking to be developed..better still..the green area beside the new playground in charlesland..

LifeBeginsAt40 · 19-01-2013 5:44pm

pixbyjohn wrote: »

That road is already earmarked for major amount of traffic because it will eventually be the Blacklion to Delgany road serving several hundred proposed houses.
It is great to see someone like Mc Donalds invest in the area because they are usually a long term business and will create some employment. I have lived in the Greystones area all my life and think it is great to see more services setting up to serve the thousands of new and old residents in the area.

I think we're heading slightly off topic, one of my posts stated that there is a place for McDonald's. My concern is the location adjacent to a primary school.

It's the (lack of) promotion of a healthier lifestyle that should be of concern to planners. Why not allow the development to the South of the town, away from the boundary fence of the primary schools.

We would all object to a pub next to a primary school, so why is a McDonald's ok? They both cause long term health issues.

quikquest · 19-01-2013 5:45pm

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

What???? People from far and wide will DRIVE to this McDonald's, with or without children. This is in addition to the already existing retail traffic and school traffic.

You are missing the point - McDonald's are entitled to open a store, just the same as casinos, pubs and lap dancing bars. My concern is NOT OUTSIDE a primary school complex.

A lot of 8 year old children walk to school on their own, at the moment there is not the temptation to purchase fries and a burger.

As for Pebbles Cafe, they sell cookies and coffee as you rightly state. As does McDonald's, so there is a clash of business interest.

I get your point - but my point is so what if it is outside a school? This is where parenting skills come into effect. My child can walk past a McDonalds because they know they can only go their as a special treat (birthday or silimar) - they don't pressure me and if they did they would get punished. If a parent chooses to let their child eat in there all the time, thats nothing to do with me and I don't see why McDonalds shouldn't open their because of people like this.

A Lot of children walk past Takeaways, Spars, Centras on their way to school - its the same thing only sweets!

Yes as for Pebbles, cookies and coffee - either the compete in price or offer a nicer product ... simple really

quikquest · 19-01-2013 5:48pm

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

I think we're heading slightly off topic, one of my posts stated that there is a place for McDonald's. My concern is the location adjacent to a primary school.

It's the (lack of) promotion of a healthier lifestyle that should be of concern to planners. Why not allow the development to the South of the town, away from the boundary fence of the primary schools.

Promoting a healthier lifestyle is NOT a concern of planners! It is up to the PARENTS to be concerned on what their children are eating! If the parents ARE then brilliant, but if they are NOT their is nothing we can do about it or Mcdonalds or Teachers or Government.

no I wouldn't object if their was a pub beside a school because its not like kids are going to be tempted if they are brought up right. Also I can list about 100 schools RIGHT BESIDE PUBS!

Going by your theory - why aren't you objecting to shops besides schools?? They sell cigarettes which are bad for you. They sell sweets, cream cakes, some sell wine etc.... but I don't see many 8 year olds walking out from school with a bottle of wine in their hands and a cigarette in the other.

LifeBeginsAt40 · 19-01-2013 5:49pm

MyPerfectCousin wrote: »

You make it sound like the council planners have a say in who is willing to risk investing in your neighbourhood. Obviously they have a say in approving or rejecting applications, but no one is going to open a "healthy eating restaurant" (or a Zoom facility) in that location because the council/a few locals want one.

I understand your concern about it, but it just doesn't work that way.

I also wonder if it is just the McDonalds name that is the issue. If it was Pineto or Joker's would you mind? Did you object to the Little Caesar's that was there?

Nope, I wasn't here then. I think the already established cafes in Greystones will see a reduction in foot fall. McDonald's has bulk buying power and therefore can and DO offer their coffee, soft drinks, fries and other convenience food at cheap prices.

Local take-aways can not compete with that. McDonald's creates low paying work, at the expense of established businesses.

LifeBeginsAt40 · 19-01-2013 5:55pm

A move was made by the supermarket chains to remove sweets from besides the tills. This was in response to parents complaints about "pester power".

The same will occur with this development. I am a parent and could do without a major fast-food chain RIGHT outside the school entrance. Responsible planning is about job creation, job retention and support of local businesses.

Of course kids walk into town at lunchtime, but placing the temptation at the actual gates of a primary school is downright irresponsible planning.

quikquest · 19-01-2013 5:56pm

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Nope, I wasn't here then. I think the already established cafes in Greystones will see a reduction in foot fall. McDonald's has bulk buying power and therefore can and DO offer their coffee, soft drinks, fries and other convenience food at cheap prices.

Local take-aways can not compete with that. McDonald's creates low paying work, at the expense of established businesses.

You keep changing your point, one minute its the road, then its the school now its pebbles. It seems you need to worry about affairs that effect you directly.

A McDonalds won't effect you personally unless you work in Pebbles and cross the road and have a child in the school.

It will CREATE competition! All those chippers and cafes you love will prob sell their products a little cheaper and you know what? It will give you more choice. You might find you would fancy a Mcdonalds and pop in for a meal.

JOB CREATION IS GOOD! If smaller food places are stuggling they need to up their game and come up with some cool ideas to increase business.

LifeBeginsAt40 · 19-01-2013 5:59pm

quikquest wrote: »

You keep changing your point, one minute its the road, then its the school now its pebbles. It seems you need to worry about affairs that effect you directly.

If you care to read back to my OP, I think you will see I raised several concerns about this development.

I haven't changed any of my points. I mentioned the traffic, the location to a primary school and asked for opinions. Which is what we have here.

As others raise valid points (both for and against) I answer them with my opinion as best I can.
**YES this does concern me, as I do live close to the proposed development, I am a parent and I do think that the only way local businesses could reduce their prices to McDonald's levels is by letting staff go to reduce their overheads.**

quikquest · 19-01-2013 5:59pm

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

A move was made by the supermarket chains to remove sweets from besides the tills. This was in response to parents complaints about "pester power".

The same will occur with this development. I am a parent and could do without a major fast-food chain RIGHT outside the school entrance. Responsible planning is about job creation, job retention and support of local businesses.

Of course kids walk into town at lunchtime, but placing the temptation at the actual gates of a primary school is downright irresponsible planning.

I am a parent also and what is the worst that can happen? Your child says Daddy I want McD's... you say no the child crys? This is where you need to step up and explain to your child that tantrums won't be tolorated and he/she will be punished/grounded if it happens again. Problem solved.

Yes I remember when parents complained about "pester power". Ridiculous. Parents should have instead learnt how to parent their child and put manners on them. If my child made a scene in a shopping center over sweets, he would be grounded and disciplined. This is the problem too many parents can't seem to discipline their kids. They should watch Supernanny

quikquest · 19-01-2013 6:04pm

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

**YES this does concern me, as I do live close to the proposed development, I am a parent and I do think that the only way local businesses could reduce their prices to McDonald's levels is by letting staff go to reduce their overheads.**

Do you know this for a fact or is this you worrying about things that mightent happen? Do you know the margins Pebbles is making and other food outlets? Maybe some of the staff in the new mcdonalds might not eat their free lunch and get sick of it and go over to pebbles to buy their lunch. ?

LifeBeginsAt40 · 19-01-2013 6:07pm

Why don't we allow McDonald's to finish off a section of the derelict harbour and have a restaurant there? That way the community benefits, parents wont have constant nagging on the way to and from a primary school and an already busy road adjacent to a primary school wont have even more traffic?

As I mentioned earlier, would any of us be happy with a casino or adult venue built next to a primary school? Why is it ok to allow kids to eat themselves to obesity and place the temptation within seconds of their school?

pixbyjohn · 19-01-2013 6:12pm

"Interested in views of local residents" This was in your first post. Now please stop arguing with those who give you their views. Take it up with the planning authority.

LifeBeginsAt40 · 19-01-2013 6:17pm

pixbyjohn wrote: »

"Interested in views of local residents" This was in your first post. Now please stop arguing with those who give you their views. Take it up with the planning authority.

I have of course emailed the town planners. A bit harsh John as I am indeed reading and responding to the arguments on here. I thought this was the place to air our personal views.

Why should I be expected to remain silent, just because we all disagree. It's a democracy (even on boards) I'm very interested in how people think, which is why I try and respond with my views to encourage the debate.

Do you want me to ask the MODS to delete the thread and we can all pretend it never happened?

I'm all for listening to more views and I hope you are too. I'm not taking any comments to heart, there are matters in Greystones a lot of us agree on and there are matters we will never see eye to eye on. it shouldn't mean we cant "argue" like adults on a forum for the town.

McDonald's Planning Permission - Blacklion Manor

Comments