The Bus to keep or not to keep?

audreyp · 07-03-2011 12:15pm

I totally agree, I don't mind paying management fees if I have a nice estate to live in. Its unfair that some people pay and some don't! There are plenty of payment plans to make the fees more affordable! (Which we actually use ourselves)

judy1 · 07-03-2011 1:43pm

I came across this letter on the bus this morning that one of our good residents left on it. It goes as follows....

Dear Residents of Charlesland

As you are undoubtedly aware this shuttle bus service will be terminating it's services on the 31st of March 2011. The reason for this is simply down to costs. I have been in contact with the management company who have advised that a number of residents have not been paying the fee for the bus. The earliest bus to the dart station is the 184 which stops at charlesland at 06:30. The only other alternative is the 84 which goes via kilcoole and does not presently list charlesland as a stop.

Please be aware of the minimum fair from charlesland to the dart station €1.85 and frequency does not necessarily reflect the time table of the dart.

Suggested Action:
1 Have the bus company operate a private service for which an amount is payed weekly entitling an individual to pick up and drop off over the 5 days.

2 send a email to Wyse asking them to explain why this service which many residents have paid for is been removed, please cc charleslandbus@gmail.com when emailing Wyse so we can get an idea of how many people are affected by thie issue.

3 please email charleslandbus@gmail.com advising how many in your house hold use this bus and where possible approximate time so I can create an effective analysis/business plan for the coach/driver should it come down to that.

The management company is:

WYSE Property Management
South City Centre,
Head Office:
94 Lr Baggot Street
Dublin2

Tel: 01 6470600

Info@wyse.ie

Please cc: charleslandbus@gmail.com

Please note I do not need names or addresses, simple times and number so as to work out how many people are affected by this issue. I am simply doing this because this is an essential service that we all as a community need.

Please surport this service your service...

Well folks this is as I said left on the bus seats this morning... I don't know if we can do much now, but let's fight for our bus. What's the worse that can happen? Lose or bus:mad:

matt-dublin · 07-03-2011 2:42pm

Judy,

it was nothing to do with wyse, they're not in a position to remove or add the service, It was a decision of the overall committee.

If you have an issue with this you should take it up with your local committee chairperson who will be a member of the overall committee.

markest · 07-03-2011 2:46pm

From Dublin Bus website:

Fares
Adult Fares
Stages 1 – 3
€1.20

Stages 4 – 7
€1.65

Stages 8 – 13
€1.85

Over 13 Stages
€2.30

Outer Suburban 1
€2.30

Outer Suburban 2
€3.60

Outer Suburban 3
€4.60

Children’s Fares (Under 16)
Stages 1 – 7
€0.80

Over 7 Stages
€1.00

Schoolchild Fare (Under 16)
All Stages
€0.65*

Scholar Fares (16-18 years)
Normal adult cash fares apply

Shopper’s Fare
City Centre Fare
€0.50

Xpresso Fares
Adult Fares
Travel within 1 Zone
€2.60

Travel between 2 Zones
€3.60

Children’s Fares
Travel within 1 Zone
€1.70

Travel between 2 Zones
€2.00

* Schoolchild Cash Fares apply only during normal school terms, for travel between home and school Monday to Friday up to 17:00hrs and on Saturday up to 13:30hrs

hamstervision · 07-03-2011 2:53pm

matt-dublin wrote: »

If you have an issue with this you should take it up with your local committee chairperson who will be a member of the overall committee.

Out of curiosity, where can one find contact details for their local chairperson?

matt-dublin · 07-03-2011 3:01pm

I think a lot of the fares have been discussed before whereby if you're paying individual fares on a daily basis you're hemmoragin money.

have a look at http://www.taxsavers.ie/Ticket-Calculator/Ticket-Calculator/

Paying daily would average at about €220 a month using the bus (3 stops between charlesland/greystones station)

a monthly unlimited use bus and rail ticket is €119, if you buy it via your employer its €82 if you're on the lower tax band and €57 if you're on the higher band.

matt-dublin · 07-03-2011 3:02pm

hamstervision wrote: »

Out of curiosity, where can one find contact details for their local chairperson?

should be in the minutes of your AGM letters, or contact your management agents for contact details.

judy1 · 07-03-2011 3:22pm

matt-dublin wrote: »

Judy,

it was nothing to do with wyse, they're not in a position to remove or add the service, It was a decision of the overall committee.

If you have an issue with this you should take it up with your local committee chairperson who will be a member of the overall committee.

Matt, as I've already said some where in these post, I do have a slight problem with the way this was handled. And I've already come to the fact we have lost our service. And as I clearly stated that the letter I copied on to this was one that was handed out on the bus this morning. And if I'd done that letter there would have been a lot of F-ing and Blinding in it.

J

mikedragon32 · 07-03-2011 4:35pm

judy1 wrote: »

Matt, as I've already said some where in these post, I do have a slight problem with the way this was handled. And I've already come to the fact we have lost our service. And as I clearly stated that the letter I copied on to this was one that was handed out on the bus this morning. And if I'd done that letter there would have been a lot of F-ing and Blinding in it.

J

... and one or two emoticons, I would have thought!

Annasopra · 07-03-2011 5:16pm

hamstervision wrote: »

Out of curiosity, where can one find contact details for their local chairperson?

In the Useful numbers and local services [updated 06-02-11] thread

Charlesland Court O'Farrell Property Managers 01-2360094 - Res. Committee: charleslandcourt@hotmail.com

Charlesland Crescent Res. Committee: thecrescentcharlesland@gmail.com

Charlesland Wood Res. Committee: charleslandcommittee4U@gmail.com

Charlesland Grove & Park Kennedy Wright
District Unit 1, Charlesland Retail Estate, Greystones, Wicklow
Tel: 01 2871905 info@kennedywright.ie

Charlesland Shopping Center CBRE

Charlesland Wood Wyse Property Management 01 647 0600 info@wyse.ie www.wyse.ie Res. Committee: charleslandwood@gmail.com

Seabourne View Res. Committee: seabourneview@gmail.com

hamstervision · 07-03-2011 6:46pm

Johnnymcg wrote: »

In the Useful numbers and local services [updated 06-02-11] thread

Thanks, but the Charlesland Wood email address doesn't seem to work if you're looking for a reply...

skelly22 · 08-03-2011 2:09pm

matt-dublin wrote: »

Skelly, they pay towards it actually.

The fairways/seaborne view is part of charlesland

My apologies so Matt-Dublin, thought it was only paid for by court/grove/park/wood residents.

LMC · 10-03-2011 8:40pm

Received letter from mgmt co, they say we'll save E50 to E85 per year depending on unit you live in, not much when you think about it.

threetrouts · 10-03-2011 11:51pm

What part are you living in-- I got my bill in wood and have saved 185 already they have handed it on immediately-off this years bill and thats counting having to pay the first quarter for the bus if you add another 25% next year its a hell of a saving.I am a user of the bus but I can see why my neighbours who dont use it have to subsidise me and 7% of others who live here to the tune of 200 euros a year to go 2 miles down the road to the DART .I walked it this morning and from the wood it took me exactly 16 mins -10 to the mill rd roundabout and 6 to the station.I cycled it in 6 mins on Monday.The bus is gone and wont return the decision was made ultimately by the directors of the company who were entitled legally under the lease agreements and articles of association not by the committes which are all ad hoc and have no legal or other standing according to the lease and articles of association of the associated companies.I would suggest that this thread be closed as the issue is now final as when getting my property assessed by a local estate agent he said the fact that the bus is gone has no real impact as most buyers will drive this being a dormitory town, but prospective buyers googling charlesland for info are being turned off by this thread as we look like a community at war over this. PERCEPTION

darter · 11-03-2011 7:11am

threetrouts wrote: »

What part are you living in-- I got my bill in wood and have saved 185 already they have handed it on immediately-off this years bill and thats counting having to pay the first quarter for the bus if you add another 25% next year its a hell of a saving.I am a user of the bus but I can see why my neighbours who dont use it have to subsidise me and 7% of others who live here to the tune of 200 euros a year to go 2 miles down the road to the DART .I walked it this morning and from the wood it took me exactly 16 mins -10 to the mill rd roundabout and 6 to the station.I cycled it in 6 mins on Monday.The bus is gone and wont return the decision was made ultimately by the directors of the company who were entitled legally under the lease agreements and articles of association not by the committes which are all ad hoc and have no legal or other standing according to the lease and articles of association of the associated companies.I would suggest that this thread be closed as the issue is now final as when getting my property assessed by a local estate agent he said the fact that the bus is gone has no real impact as most buyers will drive this being a dormitory town, but prospective buyers googling charlesland for info are being turned off by this thread as we look like a community at war over this. PERCEPTION

Surprisingly you are dead right with your distance - it is exactly 2.0 km from the Charlesland roundabout to the DART station. I thought it was more.

But doing 2 km in 16 min is a fast walking pace - 7.5 km/h. Average walking pace is 120 paces/min, which is 5.6 kph for the averaged sized man and 4.8 kph for women (are you tall?). This translates to 21.5 mins for men and 25 mins for women. Yes, you can do it faster, but want to arrive to the DART hot and sweaty? Every day? Also, want to do that every morning and every evening every day? Fine in Summer, but through the cold and the rain in the dark in Winter?

Yes, the community is at war over this, and rightly so from the way it has been totally mishandled.

LMC · 11-03-2011 4:24pm

WOW - I am just passing on information that people had been asking. Its the Court btw.

loyatemu · 11-03-2011 9:18pm

re: cycling as an option: I expect cycle parking at the station will become fairly chaotic after the bus finishes - its pretty much at capacity now, a few extra Charlesland residents switching to bikes will push it over the top

threetrouts · 12-03-2011 12:27am

darter wrote: »

Surprisingly you are dead right with your distance - it is exactly 2.0 km from the Charlesland roundabout to the DART station. I thought it was more.

But doing 2 km in 16 min is a fast walking pace - 7.5 km/h. Average walking pace is 120 paces/min, which is 5.6 kph for the averaged sized man and 4.8 kph for women (are you tall?). This translates to 21.5 mins for men and 25 mins for women. Yes, you can do it faster, but want to arrive to the DART hot and sweaty? Every day? Also, want to do that every morning and every evening every day? Fine in Summer, but through the cold and the rain in the dark in Winter?

Yes, the community is at war over this, and rightly so from the way it has been totally mishandled.

Wow a mathematician

I did it again today 17 mins despite the 4 pints I drank last night:P Either there's something wrong with your maths or my watch:pac:. I 'm not tall. I'm 51 and I've walked and cycled every day this week bar one --- on the bus

and now feel about 21 years younger:P.Mind you it did take me 21.5 mins for a woman at 120paces / min which was 5.6kph for an over average sized woman top heavy):cool: I arrived home 3 hours after I left the Dart station tonight 2.1 paces per hour- a hell of an uphill trip via the Burnaby-Get a life darter:mad::mad::mad::mad:

threetrouts · 12-03-2011 12:39am

darter wrote: »

. This translates to 21.5 mins for men and 25 mins for women..

Anyone that takes 25 minutes to walk to Greystones from Charlesland must be pushing a bus 2km i.e. 2000m in 25 mins thats 80m per minute or one very slow :rolleyes: giant step per second.Yeah Darter you must have been pushing a bus also how dare you say as afemale I walk slower than a male :pac:

darter · 12-03-2011 6:29am

threetrouts wrote: »

Wow a mathematician I did it again today 17 mins despite the 4 pints I drank last night:P Either there's something wrong with your maths or my watch:pac:. I 'm not tall. I'm 51 and I've walked and cycled every day this week bar one --- on the bus
and now feel about 21 years younger:P.Mind you it did take me 21.5 mins for a woman at 120paces / min which was 5.6kph for an over average sized woman top heavy):cool: I arrived home 3 hours after I left the Dart station tonight 2.1 paces per hour- a hell of an uphill trip via the Burnaby-Get a life darter:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Stop personalizing this - I am giving you facts, not fiction, about the statistics of average adult walking pace that are easily available using any google search "average adult walking pace".

You walk 50% faster than the average, so you are fitter than the average. Well done, I congratulate you, but this is not about you. I wanted to point out that your excellent time should not be used as the benchmark as average. Perhaps everyone in Charlesland is fitter than average? Everyone who takes the DART certainly will become fitter walking it in 16 mins from April 1st onwards...

One way to work off the calories from those 4 pints in the Burnaby. Perhaps this is a nefarious Government plan to combat obesity?

matt-dublin · 12-03-2011 11:15am

threetrouts wrote: »

Anyone that takes 25 minutes to walk to Greystones from Charlesland must be pushing a bus 2km i.e. 2000m in 25 mins thats 80m per minute or one very slow :rolleyes: giant step per second.Yeah Darter you must have been pushing a bus also how dare you say as afemale I walk slower than a male :pac:

threetrouts, would you mind punctuating and structuring your comments a bit better, i don't know about anyone else but i find it quite difficult to read when everything is grouped into one paragraph

not being pernicity but its hurting my eyes

matt-dublin · 12-03-2011 11:19am

darter wrote: »

Stop personalizing this - I am giving you facts, not fiction, about the statistics of average adult walking pace that are easily available using any google search "average adult walking pace".

You walk 50% faster than the average, so you are fitter than the average. Well done, I congratulate you, but this is not about you. I wanted to point out that your excellent time should not be used as the benchmark as average. Perhaps everyone in Charlesland is fitter than average? Everyone who takes the DART certainly will become fitter walking it in 16 mins from April 1st onwards... One way to work off the calories from those 4 pints in the Burnaby. Perhaps this is a nefarious Government plan to combat obesity?

i would second this, from the crescent it takes me about 30 mins to walk to the dart station.

im not fit but certainly not unfit.

@threetrouts, i would suggest either you walk slightly faster than the average (5km/hour is avg)

see:http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=average+walking+speed&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

and http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=average+walking+speed&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

darter · 12-03-2011 12:35pm

threetrouts wrote: »

how dare you say as afemale I walk slower than a male :pac:

threetrouts,

Some more maths for you.

Average relative stride length in an adult woman is slightly shorter (0.413 x height) than an adult man (0.415 x height). Given that men are - on average again - 2" taller in Ireland, with the average woman being 5'5" in height and the average man being 5'7" in height (a very obvious age function on this though!), this makes the average Irish woman's stride 26.8" and the average Irish man's stride 27.8" - an inch longer for each stride. With an average walking pace of 120 strides per minute, that is 120" (10 feet) more every minute. I find no evidence that the stride pace of females is statistically faster than males, so females on average walk slower than males because their stride length is shorter.

However, in your case as you are 5'1" your stride is likely 25.2", which is 64 cm, so to cover 2 km you need 3125 strides (2000/0.64). If you are doing this in 16 minutes, then you are accomplishing 195 strides/minute, which is actually 63% faster than the average of 120 strides/minute.

You are walking at one heck of a pace!

But you seem to type at the same frenetic pace as well.... Do you do everything at 150% pace?

Annasopra · 12-03-2011 7:58pm

Folks - can we keep this on the topic of the bus please

darter · 12-03-2011 8:22pm

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Folks - can we keep this on the topic of the bus please

Why? Flogging a dead horse continuing to talk about the bus... Seems to be absolutely no chance of rescinding the decision, so perhaps the thread could be closed as it's going nowhere - like the bus...

Annasopra · 12-03-2011 8:28pm

darter wrote: »

Why? Flogging a dead horse continuing to talk about the bus... Seems to be absolutely no chance of rescinding the decision, so perhaps the thread could be closed as it's going nowhere - like the bus...

There are always chances - I've of the opinion myself that if a group of concerned residents collaborated together on something like a petition to the committee who decided this then there might be a chance of changing the decision. Also I see no reason to close the thread.

Mullie · 12-03-2011 8:42pm

Johnnymcg wrote: »

There are always chances - I've of the opinion myself that if a group of concerned residents collaborated together on something like a petition to the committee who decided this then there might be a chance of changing the decision. Also I see no reason to close the thread.

If someone does start a petition could you do another one for me while you're at it? I'm looking for the local community to subsidise my fuel costs for getting to work.
I figure that if I contribute to other peoples commute they should return the favor no?

hamstervision · 12-03-2011 8:53pm

Mullie wrote: »

If someone does start a petition could you do another one for me while you're at it? I'm looking for the local community to subsidise my fuel costs for getting to work.
I figure that if I contribute to other peoples commute they should return the favor no?

Let's not be ridiculous. *EVERYONE* was duly aware of the bus being part of the management fees before buying. Your fuel expenses, tragically, were not.

judy1 · 13-03-2011 6:28pm

threetrouts wrote: »

What part are you living in-- I got my bill in wood and have saved 185 already they have handed it on immediately-off this years bill and thats counting having to pay the first quarter for the bus if you add another 25% next year its a hell of a saving.

If you saved that €185 from the bus service finnishing up that is great.:)
But I think you have been very badly ripped off.:mad: As The shuttle bus for the last year only cost each unit 36.6 cent a week. And for the excuse of getting rid of it because of the high cost of running it for next year, that is a joke. It would have cost each unit 53.3 cent a week. Thats The Facts. So what is the rest of the moneys going on?????

As for the year before the shuttle cost more or less 53.5 cent a week per unit. Did you see a saving last year because the bus cost came down by a whole lot from the 2009 cost? I seen no change in my costs....:eek:

matt-dublin · 13-03-2011 9:52pm

Judy, it doesn't work like that, you pay a percentage of a percentage and depending on where you live and what type of unit you have your percentage changes.

Look at it this way, why doesn't someone make a bus committee, if you get 300 willing participants to pay 250 up front each you can get tony Doyle to continue the service.

Or finnegans might run a cheaper/payg service but he only seemed concerned when he was looking for votes.

The bus has now gone, if you want the service continued I suggest contacting the person who left the flyers on the bus

judy1 · 14-03-2011 10:03am

Matt-Dublin I just can't get my head around this percentage thing. It's ok to work things out that way with most services, ie bins upkeep of greens ect.
But for the shuttle bus! There is no way that should have ever been worked out on a percentage the way everything else was. The shuttle bus simple is one price, and that should have been one price per unit.
ie maybe say €50 per unit. That would have been the end of it. Instead it 50 up to 180 so some people say. Who gets the excess money's? Where did our over payments go?
That's what has me peed off with this whole thing.:mad:

And your right someone should step forward and maybe do a bus committee type set up.

You sound like the right person for the job....

matt-dublin · 14-03-2011 11:14am

TBH Judy, i don't have the time nor the patience to set it up. I know for a fact the maximum amount of people that would be interested in paying for a bus is about 20-40(judging by what the agents and committees a hearing back). Also people in charlesland tend to be bloody disrespectful and ungrateful so why would I or anyone want to do it. No matter how good a job you do there will be someone there who will cause a fuss about it and this is one of these situations.

The majority of the estate don't use the bus and don't want to pay for it, yet those who do use the bus want it but only want to pay €50 a year for it. Absolute no win situation.

The percentage of a percentage thing was the way it was set up, it was the only fair way to do it unfortunatly and thats how the builders & legal teams decided it be done.

what do you mean where did your over payments go? there never was any over payments. The fees were reduced when we moved to tony doyle last year, but it was such a minimal rediction that it wouldn't have been noticable.

even if there was any over payments they would have been put into a sinking fund, its not like the committees & agents took any money from the coffers and went a partying!

The committees volunteer their spare time to support the functions of the estate. The management agents get paid a fixed annual rate to action those functions and provide day to day asistance with same alongside general administration.

What you will find however, that if all of the units paid their fees fully that there would be less stress on the overall financial system.

With units not paying fees you will find the management companies are having to use sinking funds and any excess cash to cover the day to day services. If all units paid their fees the financial fire fighting thats going on would be significantly reduced allowing for the potential of better reductions.

MVE · 14-03-2011 2:49pm

Johnnymcg wrote: »

There are always chances - I've of the opinion myself that if a group of concerned residents collaborated together on something like a petition to the committee who decided this then there might be a chance of changing the decision. Also I see no reason to close the thread.

Johnnymcg, I fully agree with your proposal. I have personally contacted my management company (Kennedy Wright) and requested an EGM for the residents to be consulted and to vote on the continuity of the Shuttle Bus service. Unfortunately the response I received was that "The Charlesland Overall Residents Committee will not reverse their decision or call an EGM at this time". I find CORC's position extremely stubborn and arrogant and I think that we should organise ourselves to put pressure and make our concerns heard. As a first action I would suggest not paying our management fees until a ballot takes place on this issue.

conlof · 14-03-2011 2:54pm

Tony Doyle can run that bus on a business footing for the first week of April and I am pretty sure he won't be back for the second week.

Only a total lunatic would take on the organisation of a pay service for the bus. people want some thing for nothing.

The bus issue is dead.

LEIN · 14-03-2011 3:46pm

How many times has this thread gone the same full circle?

I feel it has run its course but i will leave it open till the end of the month.

matt-dublin · 14-03-2011 3:52pm

Damo, i would suggest closing at this point, it just keeps going round.

If someone wants to start up private bus committee/service let them start a new thread but right now the shuttle service will be termintated regardless.

LEIN · 14-03-2011 3:56pm

matt-dublin wrote: »

If someone wants to start up private bus committee/service let them start a new thread.

Good idea.

The Bus to keep or not to keep?

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