Are single sex schools the dream to teach in or is it just limited to all girls ?

Dickie10 · 24-06-2019 10:37pm #1

From listening to fellow teachers and student teachers in PME a few years ago it seemed that in vast majority of cases single sex schools seemed very easy to teach in (discipline wise, academic etc,). Has anyone ever found differnces to this? Or would all girls schools be the dream in this situation, i have rarely found too many complaining about the above issues in an girls school. I taught in one in PME and found it a really great first school experience, little if any discipline issues. I am subbing this coming year 2019-20 in another all girls school, just wondering of there all like this ? I mean very generally speaking. On a sidenote would you guys if in a perfect world go for these schools if you had a choice? I have often found female teachers not be overly enthused about teaching in all girls schools, find this strange.

happywithlife · 24-06-2019 11:14pm

Depends on the school.
Stereotypical all girl convent academic school is quite different to an inner city DEIS all girls school

Personally I like a mix but that's me

mtoutlemonde · 24-06-2019 11:48pm

Dickie10 wrote: »

From listening to fellow teachers and student teachers in PME a few years ago it seemed that in vast majority of cases single sex schools seemed very easy to teach in (discipline wise, academic etc,). Has anyone ever found differnces to this? Or would all girls schools be the dream in this situation, i have rarely found too many complaining about the above issues in an girls school. I taught in one in PME and found it a really great first school experience, little if any discipline issues. I am subbing this coming year 2019-20 in another all girls school, just wondering of there all like this ? I mean very generally speaking. On a sidenote would you guys if in a perfect world go for these schools if you had a choice? I have often found female teachers not be overly enthused about teaching in all girls schools, find this strange.

I worked in some all boys schools ... two had management problems but the third I really enjoyed. I had a short stint in an all girls school and would definitely not go back for even one day but that is that particular school with rough clientele and the way staff made me feel. Personally, as a male I'd take an all boys/mixed school before an all girls school.

Teaching girls would definitely not be the dream for me .... they have a vast array of problems and very good memories and will hold the slightest thing against you.

Your classroom management should be the same in any school you work in i.e. set the boundaries day one and follow school procedures.

Dickie10 · 26-06-2019 12:29am

i must have just got lucky

spurious · 26-06-2019 10:57am

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Teaching girls would definitely not be the dream for me .... they have a vast array of problems and very good memories and will hold the slightest thing against you.

I found this with girls too. With boys, if there was an incident, it was forgotten about by the end of the day.

Overall though, I think the management of a school sets the tone for behaviour, boys or girls, or mixed. If the rules say a certain behaviour is not acceptable, you remove them from your class because of it (as per the rules) and then they are sent straight back with instructions to 'say sorry', you may throw your hat at it, which is, in the end, what I did.

I got tired of the decent kids being overlooked so that we could pander to the 'challenging' types who miracle of miracles decided to behave themselves once or twice.

mtoutlemonde · 26-06-2019 2:14pm

spurious wrote: »

I found this with girls too. With boys, if there was an incident, it was forgotten about by the end of the day.

Overall though, I think the management of a school sets the tone for behaviour, boys or girls, or mixed. If the rules say a certain behaviour is not acceptable, you remove them from your class because of it (as per the rules) and then they are sent straight back with instructions to 'say sorry', you may throw your hat at it, which is, in the end, what I did.

I got tired of the decent kids being overlooked so that we could pander to the 'challenging' types who miracle of miracles decided to behave themselves once or twice.

In one of the two schools mentioned above, a student threw a bottle of water over my head, I reported it to year head and I was given the dressing down about my classroom management - needless to say I didn't report anything else and thankfully was subbing and left at the end of term.

However in the school I liked working in, had an incident when I started. Reported on VSWare, DP outside classroom at lunchtime to speak to me - the students were then made apologise to me and I knew they meant it - never had one problem in four months.

It all comes down to management.

linguist · 26-06-2019 3:26pm

I think that the key thing is that teachers have to be fully ready to accept the ethos of the school they join and that includes whether it is single sex or mixed. I have taught in all contexts but am currently in a single sex boys' school.

I think I would have to risk a little controversy in saying this. A number of our most difficult teacher-student relationships have involved female teachers who frankly were ill-disposed towards boys. Their relationship was conflictual and they were simply not attuned to the students' need to be treated with dignity, fairness and where possible kindness as learning adolescents. Some of these people would rant off in the staffroom about boys in general which is really not advisable when you're not permanent and in a school with a strong ethos! Naturally, I have also known the exact opposite among my female colleagues: people who have devoted their careers to turning out rounded young men.

But everyone would accept that somebody who did not have a commitment to the advancement of women would be a poor fit in an all girls environment so conversely anyone taking up a post in an all boys' school should leave their ambivalence towards young men in the car park. The bottom line is that ethos remains critical in our schools. A lot of NQTs don't fully grasp this in my experience. You have to accept it upon taking up the position and you can't expect to get CID if it's obvious to middle and senior management that you're not gelling.

spurious · 26-06-2019 3:50pm

Of the schools I taught in, I found the 'all boys' one the easiest and most enjoyable to work in.

mtoutlemonde · 26-06-2019 5:05pm

linguist wrote: »

I think that the key thing is that teachers have to be fully ready to accept the ethos of the school they join and that includes whether it is single sex or mixed. I have taught in all contexts but am currently in a single sex boys' school.

I think I would have to risk a little controversy in saying this. A number of our most difficult teacher-student relationships have involved female teachers who frankly were ill-disposed towards boys. Their relationship was conflictual and they were simply not attuned to the students' need to be treated with dignity, fairness and where possible kindness as learning adolescents. Some of these people would rant off in the staffroom about boys in general which is really not advisable when you're not permanent and in a school with a strong ethos! Naturally, I have also known the exact opposite among my female colleagues: people who have devoted their careers to turning out rounded young men.

But everyone would accept that somebody who did not have a commitment to the advancement of women would be a poor fit in an all girls environment so conversely anyone taking up a post in an all boys' school should leave their ambivalence towards young men in the car park. The bottom line is that ethos remains critical in our schools. A lot of NQTs don't fully grasp this in my experience. You have to accept it upon taking up the position and you can't expect to get CID if it's obvious to middle and senior management that you're not gelling.

Funny that - I've been subbing in many schools and have found the same problem. I have always enjoyed teaching - and yes you have to teach more than the subject sometimes - I try and build relationships as fast as I can and as a result - have never had any serious incident thankfully. When you treat students with respect, you will get it in return. I remember when doing TP, my inspector saying to me that respect is earned which I know disagree with because if you are waiting for a student to respect you and you're not respecting them, you are taking the higher ground - everyone has their job to do in the classroom but respect is paramount.

I have always told NQTs to not say much in the staffroom about students and definitely stay away from the principals office. Always try and deal with the problem yourself inside/outside the classroom. The kids will have more respect for you as well.

Linguist, I'm assuming that you are a language teacher as well. I have found that and I know it is contrary to what the DOE say but I think overusing the target language in the classroom can cause management problems as students don't know what you're asking, your're putting them under pressure to answer in front of their classmates and in turn makes them dislike your subject.

linguist · 26-06-2019 7:03pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Linguist, I'm assuming that you are a language teacher as well. I have found that and I know it is contrary to what the DOE say but I think overusing the target language in the classroom can cause management problems as students don't know what you're asking, your're putting them under pressure to answer in front of their classmates and in turn makes them dislike your subject.

Yes, absolutely. I would imagine most language teachers in mixed ability settings would agree. We've had a couple of language inspectors and they wouldn't last 10 minutes in front of our classes.

Dickie10 · 26-06-2019 9:58pm

re. building relationships this is the number 1 key to classroom management. more so in difficult schools , in some schools im sure if you tell the students it will help pass a test if they stand on there head they would do it. as regards all girls schools . i have had plenty of experience in training girls sports teams and have always would support female achievement as i have a lot of nieces, i suppose this was why i was more of a natural fit for an girls school. to be honest i think i only needed to issue discipline strongly twice in a whole academic year in that school. hope it continues in that vein for sept.!

mtoutlemonde · 26-06-2019 10:15pm

Dickie10 wrote: »

re. building relationships this is the number 1 key to classroom management. more so in difficult schools , in some schools im sure if you tell the students it will help pass a test if they stand on there head they would do it. as regards all girls schools . i have had plenty of experience in training girls sports teams and have always would support female achievement as i have a lot of nieces, i suppose this was why i was more of a natural fit for an girls school. to be honest i think i only needed to issue discipline strongly twice in a whole academic year in that school. hope it continues in that vein for sept.!

I know you know this stuff already but make sure you are never in a room with just one student. Leave the door open - maybe sit in the corridor

(A bit of an overreaction).

wirelessdude01 · 27-06-2019 7:34am

Personally prefer co ed schools. Best of both worlds for the kids and for me the teacher. Bitchiest atmosphere I ever encountered was the staffroom in an all girls schools.

mtoutlemonde · 27-06-2019 10:55am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Personally prefer co ed schools. Best of both worlds for the kids and for me the teacher. Bitchiest atmosphere I ever encountered was the staffroom in an all girls schools.

I ate my lunch in my classroom/car for the few weeks I was in an all girls school - I felt like an alien - when I went in everybody looking/staring and making comment and not too quietly either.

linguist · 27-06-2019 11:46am

I have to say my own experience of an all-girls' school was that the male staff were made very welcome. The alien analogy isn't entirely wrong but in a good way. I felt our individuality and idiosyncrasies were tolerated more because we were a slightly exotic minority. Similarly, most of us got along very well with the students. To an extent, the girls possibly felt obliged to work around us more so than some of my female colleagues where personality clashes did occur. Just my experience.

Sir123 · 27-06-2019 12:16pm

happywithlife wrote: »

Depends on the school.
Stereotypical all girl convent academic school is quite different to an inner city DEIS all girls school

Personally I like a mix but that's me

I would totally agree with this. Type of school
and clientel totally makes a huge difference to classroom management techniques and overall general teaching.

As stated on another post, girls do hold things against you and can be quite rude towards other girls. The main thing is to go in holding your head up high like the professional you are.

Another thing is to make sure your classroom management is fair. I have found that you have to be black and white and treat them all equally or they will call you out on it. For example, if you catch someone talking and you take their journal, yet someone else whispers after, without permission, and you don't do anything, there will be havoc. Remember classroom rules play a big role in terms of consistency. Have them on the wall and refer back to them during lessons if you have to. Building relationships is extremely important but you can't let them walk over you either. Balance is key.

bobbyss · 29-06-2019 9:20am

Sir123 wrote:

Another thing is to make sure your classroom management is fair. I have found that you have to be black and white and treat them all equally or they will call you out on it. For example, if you catch someone talking and you take their journal, yet someone else whispers after, without permission, and you don't do anything, there will be havoc. Remember classroom rules play a big role in terms of consistency. Have them on the wall and refer back to them during lessons if you have to. Building relationships is extremely important but you can't let them walk over you either. Balance is key.

Whispering without permission!

Dickie10 · 07-10-2019 10:43pm

almost a month in the school now. have to say its very enjoyable. students are mostly very academic but the weaker ones are extremely well mannered and natural at the same time, its a rural school so i have lots in common with the students and building relationships etc through sport and other activities. Have to say i feel quite lucky teaching is a lot less stressful when you dont have to chastise students very much if at all. the atmosphere is so relaxed, no aggression or stand offs when on yard duty with kids trying to smoke or anything. amazing how schools differ.

spurious · 08-10-2019 7:39am

The level playing field.

Dickie10 · 24-07-2020 12:50am

just said i would look into this again as I have a nephew going to secondary next year and a cousins child (boy) going this year. i find the parents choice of school fascinating insight into little things and thier view of the world. As i said before I have a good lot of young nieces compared to nephews but I think there all destined for the same all girls school. i think if i had daughters i would send them all girls as well. with boys i think mixed school is a lovely environment. a new development i have found out the last year is students going to a certain boys school from way outside the catchment zone bypassing up to three closer schools.i do feel sorry for those schools losing the students.

Treppen · 24-07-2020 12:48pm

I'd be just as concerned as the subject offerings in single sex . If I had a daughter in all girl's I'd be disappointed if she couldn't do engineering or technology

am_zarathustra · 24-07-2020 1:08pm

I teach in a mixed DEIS school and I think the mixing is brilliant for the kids social development. It's easy to iron out issues in how both sexes are stereotyped as you go along and in traditionally (whatever that means) male dominated areas there are very competent girls in their class from first year. We would have boys who wear nail polish and girls who always wear trousers and everything in between.

As Treppen said,subject choice is really broad, I went out an all girls school of almost 800 with no technology, woodwork, metalwork, engineering etc. Some years we had 4 biology classes and could barely scrape ten for a physics class. Even though the school I'm in now is much smaller, they have a much larger choice available.

Alex86Eire · 24-07-2020 1:34pm

I went to an all girls convent school myself and don't think I would send a child of mine to one.
I'd be much happier if they went to a mixed school. Single sex girls schools can have very toxic environments and bullying can be rife (obviously school dependent - this is just my own experience).
I would have less qualms in sending a boy to an all boys school.

Teaching wise - the 'easiest' school I've taught in was an all girls convent school but I found the staff very clique-y. There was one man on a staff out of 40.
This may be controversial but I find a good gender balance on a staff to be a lot more pleasant. My current school is about 60:40 which is great.

rainbowtrout · 24-07-2020 3:12pm

Treppen wrote: »

I'd be just as concerned as the subject offerings in single sex . If I had a daughter in all girl's I'd be disappointed if she couldn't do engineering or technology

I'd agree. I went to an all girls school having come from a mixed primary school. I didn't have any male friends as a teenager. I think it's important from a social point of view that boys and girls get an opportunity to mix and as was said in another post, to challenge the stereotypes.

While I didn't miss it at school because I never had the opportunity, I would love to have had the chance to do some of the technology subjects. I do all my own DIY so I think I would have enjoyed woodwork or technical drawing.

emmaro · 24-07-2020 3:19pm

I went to an all girls school, but have never taught in any.
I've worked in two mixed schools and one all boys. From my own experience, I preferred the two mixed schools, but that could just be down to the individual schools.

r93kaey5p2izun · 24-07-2020 3:24pm

I went to an all girls convent primary and secondary up to 5th Year. I went to two different mixed schools for 5th and 6th. I had lots of male friends in primary and secondary and found no issue with transitioning to a mixed school. The only notable difference was the marked increase in sexual harassment of girls in one of the mixed schools. Tame enough, but pervasive all the same. I saw the same issue persistently in the mixed school where I taught longest and it was a growing problem as I was finishing up a couple of years ago.

In theory I prefer mixed schools, and definitely prefer them to teach in. In reality, I'd be hesitant to send a girl to mixed school based on my experiences. Subject choice though is definitely a real issue. I absolutely would want every girl to have the option of doing woodwork, metalwork and tech. It seems boys schools have made much greater strides towards providing Home Ec, than girls schools have towards providing practical and technical subjects. Maybe that's down to demand though, I'm not sure.

F5500 · 24-07-2020 3:27pm

All girls schools can be very bitchy if management isn't active against it.

All boys schools can be a bit rough and tumble but it's ultimately harmless.

As mentioned before, all down to management. Mixed is probably the way forward.

wirelessdude01 · 24-07-2020 3:38pm

I once subbed for a week in an all girl primary school. Treated like a celebrity for the week. Seemingly I was the first male, apart from the caretaker, to have been in their staffroom in 23yrs. Found the attitude very strange. Treated like I was from Mars.

Treppen · 24-07-2020 4:04pm

F5500 wrote: »

All boys schools can be a bit rough and tumble but it's ultimately harmless..

I've heard that before, but know of serious damage done from bullying in a couple of boys schools.... Carefully disguised as 'just rough and tumble' and will toughen them up.

I don't know if it goes on in mixed schools in equal amounts though as I went to single sex.

Treppen · 24-07-2020 4:12pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I once subbed for a week in an all girl primary school. Treated like a celebrity for the week. Seemingly I was the first male, apart from the caretaker, to have been in their staffroom in 23yrs. Found the attitude very strange. Treated like I was from Mars.

I have a friend who teaches in all girl's and was also very welcomed amongst mostly female staff, gradually the school balanced the gender of staff.

Then change in management, now he says that men are regularly put down and targeted. Any post of responsibility HAS TO go to a female, so the girls will have positive female role models etc. Very subtle stuff like being told to 'put their big boy pants on' if they raise any issue with anything.

shesty · 24-07-2020 4:32pm

Treppen wrote: »

I'd be just as concerned as the subject offerings in single sex . If I had a daughter in all girl's I'd be disappointed if she couldn't do engineering or technology

I was in an all-girls convent secondary, and I wanted to be an engineer from about age 14.I felt when I got to college I had missed out a bit though - the lads had all done Applied Maths, Tech drawing and the like in school, and I never had the opportunity.There were 3 girls in our physics class and I was the only girl in the whole year to want to do engineering.That being said I made it through 4 years of the degree alright.

That being said, I think I will most likely send my girls to a girl's secondary and my boy to a mixed, I think.I don't like the undercurrent in some boy's schools, that I have heard of.I admit first year engineering was a shock to me - the immaturity of 200+ 18 & 19 year old boys all in a lecture theatre together was eye-opening, having come from an all-girls school where the majority of staff treated you as an adult and classroom behaviour tended to reflect that at senior cycle (tended - not always).Sitting through lectures with lads flinging paper planes and balls of paper around, sniggering and making stupid noises just made me want to bang my head against a wall.It eased off when exams loomed but it was a complete pain the first few months.

Treppen · 24-07-2020 4:41pm

shesty wrote: »

I was in an all-girls convent secondary, and I wanted to be an engineer from about age 14.I felt when I got to college I had missed out a bit though - the lads had all done Applied Maths, Tech drawing and the like in school, and I never had the opportunity.There were 3 girls in our physics class and I was the only girl in the whole year to want to do engineering.That being said I made it through 4 years of the degree alright.

That being said, I think I will most likely send my girls to a girl's secondary and my boy to a mixed, I think.I don't like the undercurrent in some boy's schools, that I have heard of.I admit first year engineering was a shock to me - the immaturity of 200+ 18 & 19 year old boys all in a lecture theatre together was eye-opening, having come from an all-girls school where the majority of staff treated you as an adult and classroom behaviour tended to reflect that at senior cycle (tended - not always).Sitting through lectures with lads flinging paper planes and balls of paper around, sniggering and making stupid noises just made me want to bang my head against a wall.It eased off when exams loomed but it was a complete pain the first few months.

I remember talking to a neighbor's daughter about what she wanted to do after leaving cert... Architecture ! I don't know how she's getting on but she went to all girl's and never held a T-square before. She had a connection in the business so that probably helped.

Out of interest, is it a level playing field in the Engineering world, or is there a boys club?

mtoutlemonde · 24-07-2020 6:04pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I once subbed for a week in an all girl primary school. Treated like a celebrity for the week. Seemingly I was the first male, apart from the caretaker, to have been in their staffroom in 23yrs. Found the attitude very strange. Treated like I was from Mars.

Exactly the same here! I went to the staffroom once or twice and ended up eating in my car/classroom. Wasnt sad fo leave it. On the first day, the principal was showing me around and told me I was the third Male on staff. She then told me that the male toilets were out of use .... filled with cleaning supplies. I don't know if the situation changed, but school didn't do favourably in WSE as the girls had no male role models.

shesty · 24-07-2020 6:16pm

Ehh...sorry dragging the thread off-topic here now....I would say in 15 years in the civil engineering field I have not experienced any problems.Engineering is a funny one, you tend to be viewed almost as "the engineer" rather than man or woman, once you are decent at your job.There is however a low number of women, probably for traditional reasons - it is often viewed as "too difficult" by many - and then as people get older and want families, issues arise around maternity leave benefits and the like, no different to many other fields.It can be exarcebated by the fact that there is a small number of women in the field anyway, then throw in women all leaving due to wanting families or whatever, makes the pool even smaller.It can be hard to be say, the only female engineer on a team and to be working short weeks or running out early every day for family commitments, when the rest of a team are all men and generally do not work like that.Obviously that can be a problem anywhere, it just makes a small number of women in engineering even smaller.

In my experience and from what I have heard though, it isn't really a profession known for discriminating against women.It is just traditionally very male-dominated, and it seems to be hard to attract women to it for other reasons around how it is perceived, not so much because there is a bias against women in it.It is an extremely versatile degree though, it is an entry way into many professions, as it is generally perceived to be one that trains you to problem-solve and think outside the box.Always a useful skill.

Dickie10 · 24-07-2020 9:43pm

Alex86Eire wrote: »

I went to an all girls convent school myself and don't think I would send a child of mine to one.
I'd be much happier if they went to a mixed school. Single sex girls schools can have very toxic environments and bullying can be rife (obviously school dependent - this is just my own experience).
I would have less qualms in sending a boy to an all boys school.

Teaching wise - the 'easiest' school I've taught in was an all girls convent school but I found the staff very clique-y. There was one man on a staff out of 40.
This may be controversial but I find a good gender balance on a staff to be a lot more pleasant. My current school is about 60:40 which is great.

In your opinion what makes these convent girls schools "easier" to teach in? I also find that, and to be honest im not exactly sure what it is. Sure there are some girls who need to be told to focus a bit more than others but the passive aggression definitley is not there. I think girls seem to give a lot of respect to male teachers, i have found that anyway. Its strange but if you say thank you to students in an all girls school on way out of classes almost 100% will say thank you too and everyday after that up to 90% would smile and say thank you leaving the class in a mixed school i found tat down around 40%. these little things i find leave your mental state in a lovely place when teaching up to 6 hour long classes a day.

Dickie10 · 24-07-2020 9:53pm

it is fascinating though the dynamic in different schools and most definitley shows that teachers in different schools are working under hugely contrasting conditions. I went to an all boys school from first to third year and 5th and 6th went to a mixed school. i was blown away by the difference in atmosphere, te biys school was about 700 the mixed school about 430.

the aggression in the boys school was a bit unhealthy, you were constantly alert to physical intimidation of all sorts, fights at lunch time etc. when i went to the mixed school i couldnt get over the chilled out vibes. it seemed the girls made the lads a lot more sedate, there were never fights really at lunch time, you were allowed out down the town for lunch but again it was sedate,lads standing round trying to impress the girls by being oh so nice. however sport was particpated just for the laugh and a day out in the mixed school, no pride really involved. no after school practice or anything. there was little if any sport played at lunchtime. usually the cool kids off smoking the other less rebels sitting around on grass on good days with the girls as if they were at a festival, all very hippy ish but led to a lovely chilled atmosphere. i loved that school but didnt do great academically. i think i was a bit like a tourist in New York spent my two years looking around and smiling and kissing girls and feeling basically in an American high school movie, before i knew it the leaving cert was over and we were done. biggest regret is not repeating my leaving though i probably would need to repeat 5th and 6th.
I would have loved every minute of the extra two years id say too.

Alex86Eire · 24-07-2020 10:29pm

Dickie10 wrote: »

In your opinion what makes these convent girls schools "easier" to teach in? I also find that, and to be honest im not exactly sure what it is. Sure there are some girls who need to be told to focus a bit more than others but the passive aggression definitley is not there. I think girls seem to give a lot of respect to male teachers, i have found that anyway. Its strange but if you say thank you to students in an all girls school on way out of classes almost 100% will say thank you too and everyday after that up to 90% would smile and say thank you leaving the class in a mixed school i found tat down around 40%. these little things i find leave your mental state in a lovely place when teaching up to 6 hour long classes a day.

Very little behavioural issues I suppose. I was in an all girls for my year of teaching practice and found it very straightforward. I've since taught in mixed and all boys and have encountered more behavioural issues in them. The girls all wanted to learn and were very exam focused. I didn't need to motivate them because they already were highly motivated.

The behaviour of the boys I teach now is very good in general but I do find that a few of the older lads try and suss out how far they can push you. I am a young female which may have something to do with it. I never found this with girls.

mtoutlemonde · 24-07-2020 11:11pm

Alex86Eire wrote: »

Very little behavioural issues I suppose. I was in an all girls for my year of teaching practice and found it very straightforward. I've since taught in mixed and all boys and have encountered more behavioural issues in them. The girls all wanted to learn and were very exam focused. I didn't need to motivate them because they already were highly motivated.

The behaviour of the boys I teach now is very good in general but I do find that a few of the older lads try and suss out how far they can push you. I am a young female which may have something to do with it. I never found this with girls.

What I would look at here is management - if they are on the ball and students have a fear of them - the kids will be motivated and will be eager to learn.

I've worked in a number of school settings but I will compare the boys schools. The first had a principal who was more interested in spying/bullying their staff that the boys were boisterous but were somewhat motivated. The second school which had a poor reputation a few years ago got a new principal and there were a few that would push the buttons as always but the students were highly motivated and a pleasure to teach. Principal and an excellent deputy presence in the corridor and an experienced senior management team made sure that the school was effective and you did the job you were paid to do - teach. I would go back to that school anyday. I loved the challenge!

Dickie10 · 25-07-2020 5:07pm

i have a feeling that one of the main reasons for some of these single sex schools being handy to teach in particularly girls schools is that about 60-70% of the students bypass their local school to go to tem, this is driven by parents who want better for thier cildren, for better or worse, so you ave a larger cohort of students who have parents taking an active interest in their childs education and some even pushing them on to do well. This is one of the biggest strengths to academic achievement in a school as well as usually being mannerly etc.

However i would agree a huge amount of it is down to management. i was in a school which was fairly tough, mixed with a few students with home and bae ckround problems and management seemed genuinely afraid to intervene in some cases. I remember catching a few girls and boys smoking and told them they were going to be called out for this, one just rolled their eyes and said "we will ye", might as well have told me to f**k off. Reported to management nothing happened regarding the comment, principal just said he denied it and smiled and said what can you do.

i was local too and made up my mind not to bother catching anyone again. dont think anything happened the smokers wither as it was let drag on a few days.

rainbowtrout · 25-07-2020 5:30pm

Dickie10 wrote: »

i have a feeling that one of the main reasons for some of these single sex schools being handy to teach in particularly girls schools is that about 60-70% of the students bypass their local school to go to tem,

.

Not true. Lots of small towns in Ireland only have one school, a community school/college or perhaps two schools typically a convent and a CBS or similar.

Girls on their own tend not to be disruptive and boisterous and easier to discipline, but bitchiness can be a factor in some schools. Go to a large city (parts of Dublin, Limerick, Cork, Galway) and you will see a difference in single sex schools depending on their catchment.

Dickie10 · 25-07-2020 9:08pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Not true. Lots of small towns in Ireland only have one school, a community school/college or perhaps two schools typically a convent and a CBS or similar.

Girls on their own tend not to be disruptive and boisterous and easier to discipline, but bitchiness can be a factor in some schools. Go to a large city (parts of Dublin, Limerick, Cork, Galway) and you will see a difference in single sex schools depending on their catchment.

yes the school im talking about are losing students from their own small town mixed community school, to two very acadmic all girls schools and an all boys school. I would say a good 25% of each 6th class from the towns primary school, bypass the secondary in the town.

rainbowtrout · 25-07-2020 9:47pm

Dickie10 wrote: »

yes the school im talking about are losing students from their own small town mixed community school, to two very acadmic all girls schools and an all boys school. I would say a good 25% of each 6th class from the towns primary school, bypass the secondary in the town.

That's only one example. There are plenty of community schools which are thriving.

Dickie10 · 26-07-2020 5:42pm

id say its down to management in most schools is it? are most schools able to be saved with the right management?

am_zarathustra · 26-07-2020 5:57pm

I think management is important but I'd always stress to new staff in my school for instance that you will be told for f off at some point. Not because of you or even anything you did but because of something happening in that kid's life. They will generally be very remorseful after, life just got the better of them. I think in some, more middle-class schools I've been in a decent code of behaviour and half decent management were enough to keep everything pretty positive. In an inner city school the kids will bring their issues with them, they can't help it so there are a lot of feelings circling in rooms. I try and insist on sticking with behavioural management terminology as opposed to discipline in this environment. You are helping the kids to learn to control their emotions and behavior in social environments, that means taking the high road, always giving second, third, even fourth chances. The student is allowed scream, you are not. I'm not sure whether single sex or mixed matters in these schools as the primary goal is to make them feel safe so they can learn. The best management in the world can't stop these flair ups. But a bad management in a school like that will lead to absolute chaos. A bad management in a nice middle class country school will be annoying but less likely to destroy anyone's future.

Dickie10 · 26-07-2020 10:18pm

its amazing the differences teachers suppose to be in same jobs face daily, totally different types of environments.

Are single sex schools the dream to teach in or is it just limited to all girls ?

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