Limerick-Foynes Rail Line

marno21 wrote: »

I'm sorry but most people don't use Cork's buses because they are absolutely ****e.

As a Corkonian, I know perfectly well.

The point is, it is chicken and egg. People drive because the buses suck, the buses suck because so few people use it. Plus the reality is the Cork/Limerick etc. are pretty small cities which have nowhere near the same congestion problems of Dublin and it is still ok to get around by car.

My point is you need to fix the bus services in Cork/Limerick before even thinking about more serious infrastructure projects (M20 aside).

falconio wrote: »

Reading my post back it seems like I'm having a pop at Dublin, that was certainly not my intention. 
If anything I think investing in infrastructure in regional cities will help ameliorate Dublin's current traffic and housing problems greatly as many people and businesses will gladly relocate elsewhere if they feel it's viable or their standard of living will improve.

I'm sorry, but that is nonsense. The only thing that will fix Dublins problems is building the infrastructure Dublin needs. Namely Metro North and DART Underground.

Don't kid yourself, big business has ZERO interest in relocating out of Dublin! Load of nonsense. The big IT and financial companies aren't thinking should I open a new office in Dublin or Cork/Limerick/etc. No they are thinking should I open in Dublin or Frankfurt/Lisbon/Zurich/etc.

The regional Irish cities are just way too small for these big companies. Dublin is just barely big enough for them, but it really needs to fix it's infrastructure if it wants to continue to grow.

We really need to get over our anti-urban, anti-Dublin, rural mindset. The reality is Ireland is urbanising, much like every other European country did over the last 50 years and there is nothing that will stop it.

Also it is totally normal for most European countries to have one big city that gets most of the investment (the Londons, Paris, Copenhagens), it concentrates resources in a manner that attracts big investment and employs lots of people that helps finance the whole country.

The regional cities have to find their own different niche (e.g. Cork and Pharma), so that they can thrive in their own manner.

falconio wrote: »

A metro line from the city centre to the airport while welcome will benefit a small catchment.

The fact that you just said that shows that you have no idea what you are talking about!

The main point of Metro North is not to go to the Airport, that is just the bonus, the cherry on top.

No, the main point of MN is to go to Swords.

You know, Swords, the fifth most populated urban area in Ireland. 68,000. Yet it is the only urban area in the top 20 in Ireland, without rail!

The point of Metro North is to open up all the available land to the North of Dublin. The population of Swords is planned to grow to 100,000 once MN is built. Hell it might even surpass Limerick Cities population!

Add to that the fact that Metro North will also pass through North city Dublin, which is the most densly populated part of Ireland and also has no rail!

The airport, Croke Park, DCU, etc. are all just bonuses. Great ones, but really not the reason for Metro North.

falconio wrote: »

I'm pro-Dublin but I believe it would be better place to live if it was smaller (in footprint) and better planned frankly. I don't believe a bigger population will benefit the citizens who have to live there.

Again, you lack of knowledge of Dublin is showing. Dublin is the most densely populated area of Ireland. In fact it is vastly higher then anywhere else (3,498 for Dublin City, 1,206 for Cork, 1,609 for Limerick, 3,616 for Swords). It's population density is actually roughly the same as Amsterdam and Copenhagen, similar medium sized European cities.

Dublin just needs proper rail based transport like these similar cities to make best use of it's already existing population density to continue to grow.

As was pointed out in another thread, the entire population of Ireland would fit in Berlins Metropolitan area, which is roughly the same size as Dublin. The point being Dublin can easily handle much greater population density, as long as we build the right infrastructure to support it.

falconio wrote: »

Take tech which is my profession. Silicon Valley is now struggling to attract talent because of the cost and sub-standard public services in the Bay area. Companies are relocating to smaller american cities where the quality of life and bang for buck is better, companies are running remote teams. I expect this trend to continue as the "one big city" in each region become less and less affordable.

I work in tech too. Big US IT companies have little interest in moving to small cities, outside of some outsourced foreign language support, they simply too small to attract the talent.

There is a reason why Google bought a new office in Manhattan that is literally the size of an entire city block at the cost of $2 billion! They want to attract the best and the brightest talent and typically those people want to live in big exciting cities. Specially fresh out of college.

You are right that the bay area is having big problems. Ironically the problems are very similar to those being faced by Dublin on a smaller scale.

Strict city planning in SF doesn't allow tall apartment buildings to be built in the city, meaning it is a relatively low level city similar to Dublin, but that leads to spiralling increases in the cost of living due to high demand. Also lacks of good public transport in the greater Bay Area. Basically the same story as in Dublin.

falconio wrote: »

You also say "The regional cities have to find their own different niche (e.g. Cork and Pharma)". This seems like a non-sequitur, do Apple and big pharma not qualify as big companies? Why are they in Cork and not in Dublin. Why is uber in Limerick?

Apple is in Cork, because they were there from the 70's. Back then they were an incredibly small company and Cork was their first factory outside of the US. It was seen as a cheap manufacturing location back then, similar to China today.

Of course things have radically changed since then. Apple grew into the richest company in the world. Ireland is no longer the cheapest place to manufacture things and much of Apples manufacturing has stopped in Cork. However luckily, Apples management in Cork was strong and they were able to pivot away from manufacturing and go into administrative support, tech support, etc. instead and grow. Fair play to them great job.

But don't kid yourself. If Apple hadn't had this long history in Cork, it would have most likely set up in Dublin just like Google, Facebook, etc.

Just look at Dell in Limerick.

Big pharma of course are also big companies. But that is a good example of Cork finding it's own niche away from Dublin's strength in IT and financial services. Good on them for developing that and it is exactly this type of development that Cork/Limerick/etc. need to be focusing on.

BTW Uber employs just 150 in Limerick. That is nothing compared to the big companies in Dublin and it is mostly only the usual low level customer support roles. Plus Uber is still really just a medium sized IT company.

Again, this is exactly what I'm saying. Cork/Limerick need to find their own niche away from Dublin, targeting more medium sized companies like Uber, EMC, VMware, etc.

Dublin also needs to be left to continue to develop and target the really biggest companies with the biggest offices, the Googles, Facebooks, Bank of Americas, etc.

falconio wrote: »

I don't want to labour the point further (this was meant to be about Limerick / Foynes, perhaps we could continue on another thread?) but "the one big city" plan is a dead end for the majority of people who are unfortunate enough to end up living there. Most progressive countries have other cities and they invest in them. 

Peoples working and living patterns are changing and employers are becoming more flexible about how, when and where people work. 

First of all, Dublin really isn't a big city! It is a medium sized European city, the same size as Amsterdam and Copenhagen, with still loads of room to grow.

I'm sorry, but you clearly haven't looked into the stats of this and the trends. I have. The trends are very clear. Around the world, the biggest cities are becoming bigger and they are growing at a rate much higher then small cities. And the world in general is urbanising.

And we are seeing the same trends here. Ireland is becoming increasingly urban and the biggest population increases is happening in the GDA, you can see here for yourself:

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp2tc/cp2pdm/pd/

44% of the total Irish urban population lives in Dublin. Next highest is Cork at just 11%

Some South Dublin towns so a 42% population increase between the 2011 and the 2016 census alone!