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Ruby Walsh - Paddy P *no conspiracies*

  • 13-03-2015 1:10am
    #1
    mirwillbeback
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭


    First off, I have no suggestion that anything untoward goes on, unlike many aggrieved punters on here and their reactionary anger.

    However, in no other industry are professionals allowed to give "inside information" or tips to spectators. You never hear a footballer give an opinion on their teams result, or a darts player suggesting he will win 7-4 for example.

    The fact that Walsh is in bed with PP leaves him open to criticism, and I doubt he needs the few extra quid that he receives.

    Why would a jockey of such standing leave himself open to such criticism.


Comments

  • #2
    mighty magpie
    Registered Users Posts: 981 ✭✭✭mighty magpie


    You do hear boxers mention specific rounds though?

    But I agree that the whole thing is a bit ****ed up especially after tuesday's fall and seeing Ruby's videos with paddy on twitter in their offices!


  • #3
    mailburner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,923 ✭✭✭✭mailburner


    ruby doesnt give a sh1te
    saying more might get me a ban


  • #4
    allthedoyles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    I've seen the videos and cant see anything untoward going on.

    Ruby gives his opinion , same as what we are doing here .


  • #5
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,765 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    allthedoyles wrote: »
    Ruby gives his opinion , same as what we are doing here .
    Not quite.

    Ruby Walsh is happy to give you an opinion - it just probably isn't likely to be his opinion.


  • #6
    dahat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,826 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    Getting into bed with Paddy Power be the least of his problems I'd say.

    I find him unbearable these days.


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  • #7
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    if that had of been a well less known jockey on Annie the criticism would have been a lot more.


  • #8
    faoile@n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 338 ✭✭faoile@n


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    if that had of been a well less known jockey on Annie the criticism would have been a lot more.

    Anyone who blames the fall on jockey error is an imbecile and should be ignored.

    Pocket talkers are a scourge on the sport.


  • #9
    handsfree2
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭handsfree2


    faoile@n wrote: »
    Anyone who blames the fall on jockey error is an imbecile and should be ignored.

    Pocket talkers are a scourge on the sport.

    I concur, ruby let the horse jump in its own time.


  • #10
    zpehtsfd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭zpehtsfd


    All you have to do is look at the AP betting for UDS and Vautour, in the runup to Cheltenham, and that will tell you all you need to know about the quality of information PP were getting. I chose to ignore it at my peril.

    Horse racing will never be a fully transparent sport. Insiders will always have an edge and i've resigned myself to this fact. Still pisses me off though when a horse like Aux Ptits Soins wins and in the post-race interview Nicholls says (paraphasing) "Yeah Nick Scholfield says he's the best horse he's sat on". That was the first i heard of it. Arghhhhhhhh.


  • #11
    Gavster1982
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭Gavster1982


    Pocket talkers, me included where angry at the fall...but in no way is it a conspiracy....Ruby is a professional,,,just boring as mud....


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  • #12
    aidan24326
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    Francie Barrett wrote: »
    Not quite.

    Ruby Walsh is happy to give you an opinion - it just probably isn't likely to be his opinion.

    His job isn't to tell you what to back though, so you can take what he says whatever way you like.

    He did call the Champion Chase correctly when he predicted that Dodging Bullets would win and that Sprinter Sacre was past it.


  • #13
    Denman2008
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭Denman2008


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    His job isn't to tell you what to back though, so you can take what he says whatever way you like.

    He did call the Champion Chase correctly when he predicted that Dodging Bullets would win and that Sprinter Sacre was past it.

    He said Sire De Grugy would win in the video I seen!


  • #14
    andyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,641 ✭✭✭andyman


    Denman2008 wrote: »
    He said Sire De Grugy would win in the video I seen!

    He was asked by Mick Fitz before the race who he'd rather be on, SDG or SS, Ruby said Dodging Bullets


  • #15
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,016 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    zpehtsfd wrote: »
    All you have to do is look at the AP betting for UDS and Vautour, in the runup to Cheltenham, and that will tell you all you need to know about the quality of information PP were getting. I chose to ignore it at my peril.

    They were also biggest price Faugheen for much of the weeks leading up and went joint best price Douvan all the Tuesday morning. People looking into this far too much.

    Not directed at you, but if some spent half as much time studying betting as this conspiracy nonsense they would get on far better


  • #16
    Juwwi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,251 ✭✭✭Juwwi


    If it was a punter who layed horses on betfair that Ruby was employed by there would be uproar.

    I don't see much difference between PP laying horses or the ordinary Joe soap
    on betfair.

    It's ridiculous these sort of arrangements are allowed.


  • #17
    Shemale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Shemale


    Not a fan of Ruby as a person but sick of hearing Ruby and/or Annie Power cost me .....

    The mare took off a mile before the hurdle due to the length of the shadow, conspiracy over

    I am just glad the jockey and wonder mare got up in one piece after a brutal fall, and that Glens won the race :cool:


  • #18
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    Shemale wrote: »
    Not a fan of Ruby as a person but sick of hearing Ruby and/or Annie Power cost me .....

    The mare took off a mile before the hurdle due to the length of the shadow, conspiracy over

    I am just glad the jockey and wonder mare got up in one piece after a brutal fall, and that Glens won the race :cool:

    I foolishly had Annie in my accumulator, I was jst happy to see the horse get back p again


  • #19
    Shemale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Shemale


    LollipopJimmy wrote: »
    I foolishly had Annie in my accumulator, I was jst happy to see the horse get back p again

    Bet of the day was Glens Melody w/o at 2/1, one bookie had a w/o market and everyone in front of me was backing her. I was blessed with the fall, had backed Annie for the World NRNB and Glens for the Mares on the basis Annie would end up in the World.


  • #20
    Gregk961
    Registered Users Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭Gregk961


    It is a conflict of interest of course, but any sort of conspiracy talk is ludicrous.
    It certainly doesn't do the image of the game any favour. The lack of regulation in the gambling industry would shock any newcomer to the business.


  • #21
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    Shemale wrote: »
    Bet of the day was Glens Melody w/o at 2/1, one bookie had a w/o market and everyone in front of me was backing her. I was blessed with the fall, had backed Annie for the World NRNB and Glens for the Mares on the basis Annie would end up in the World.

    I actually advised my mate to back against Annie Power then had an 'Ah fck it' moment when I was in the bookies. I don't normally go into shops bt ended p having a few pints on Tuesday so better judgement went ot the wndow


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  • #22
    Shemale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Shemale


    Two pricks in front of me at the airport on the way home were cribbing Annie Power as the reason they were flying home that day as they didn't have the money to stay another day.

    Did well to bite my tongue and not call them retards.


  • #23
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    Gregk961 wrote: »
    It is a conflict of interest of course, but any sort of conspiracy talk is ludicrous.
    It certainly doesn't do the image of the game any favour. The lack of regulation in the gambling industry would shock any newcomer to the business.

    My take on it is that Horse Racing revolves around betting whereas other sports don't. A jockey being in bed with a bookie doesn't bother me.


  • #24
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    Shemale wrote: »
    Two pricks in front of me at the airport on the way home were cribbing Annie Power as the reason they were flying home that day as they didn't have the money to stay another day.

    Did well to bite my tongue and not call them retards.

    Ah go way otta that, seriously? What a pair of spas


  • #25
    Shemale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Shemale


    Swear to God, obviously decided to go all in on her after Ruby won the first three, not the best strategy ever. :o


  • #26
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    Shemale wrote: »
    Swear to God, obviously decided to go all in on her after Ruby won the first three, not the best strategy ever. :o

    The temptation was obviously there for a lot of people and the amount of cribbing I'm hearing about Ruby is hilarious. He lost me xxx€€.. No arsehole yo lost yor own money


  • #27
    Panrich
    Registered Users Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭Panrich


    Shemale wrote: »
    Bet of the day was Glens Melody w/o at 2/1, one bookie had a w/o market and everyone in front of me was backing her. I was blessed with the fall, had backed Annie for the World NRNB and Glens for the Mares on the basis Annie would end up in the World.

    In retrospect she was. However having the rail to help her, she beat Polly Peachum by a very short head so it was not all plain sailing.


  • #28
    Lt J.R. Bell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Lt J.R. Bell


    mirwillbeback wrote: »
    First off, I have no suggestion that anything untoward goes on, unlike many aggrieved punters on here and their reactionary anger.

    However, in no other industry are professionals allowed to give "inside information" or tips to spectators. You never hear a footballer give an opinion on their teams result, or a darts player suggesting he will win 7-4 for example.

    The fact that Walsh is in bed with PP leaves him open to criticism, and I doubt he needs the few extra quid that he receives.

    Why would a jockey of such standing leave himself open to such criticism.

    How is Ruby in bed with PP?. We all know that he will go out and always try to win his race. He wants all the big wins.

    He has given bad tips many a time (he says jockeys can be the worse tippers) He has also talked people out of backing one of his rides despite it winning,.

    He might as well get a couple of quid for it. You can be sure he gets people running after him at airports or on his way to races asking for tips

    At least it shows his lighter side, all those ads. I am sure many of them would prefer not to come to these very good Pre Cheltenham nights to talk about horses. Geraghty tipped a few good ones last year. Davy Russell talked about what went wrong on Windsor Park and was certain he would stay at Cheltenham and how he "would ride him differently" there (sadly , to my cost I ignored it)

    The one thing about National Hunt Racing is that the jockeys seem more approachable to interviews etc unlike the flats.

    If it promotes the sport, all well and good


  • #29
    Shemale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Shemale


    Panrich wrote: »
    In retrospect she was. However having the rail to help her, she beat Polly Peachum by a very short head so it was not all plain sailing.

    Retrospect isn't available before the race and I wasn't alone backing Glen in the w/o market.

    Getting into a race with Annie, making a bags of the last and the ground lost coming stand side wouldn't have helped Glens on the other retrospective hand.


  • #30
    dave3004
    Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭dave3004


    Conspiracy theories are laughable. Ppl giving out about Ruby's tipping service here too. He might tell you the truth that he's on a star but he hasn't got a clue what's in the other yard. Jocks/Owners/Trainers are all terrible punters. They have no idea what price to take and this 'insider info' barely exists.

    The only info you get is that the horse is ready to run to his best. Doesn't mean he will win, or not miss the kick or run keenly.

    Races aren't that easy to win

    It's a gambling sport and it's exactly that. A gamble !!!

    Following 'tips' from anyone other than a professional gambler is the quick way to the poor house


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  • #31
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭mulbot


    dave3004 wrote: »
    Conspiracy theories are laughable. Ppl giving out about Ruby's tipping service here too. He might tell you the truth that he's on a star but he hasn't got a clue what's in the other yard. Jocks/Owners/Trainers are all terrible punters. They have no idea what price to take and this 'insider info' barely exists.

    The only info you get is that the horse is ready to run to his best. Doesn't mean he will win, or not miss the kick or run keenly.

    Races aren't that easy to win

    It's a gambling sport and it's exactly that. A gamble !!!

    Following 'tips' from anyone other than a professional gambler is the quick way to the poor house

    Will disagree here,(from experience,it's a very small community,these jockeys and especially workriders talk and socialize alot and if a trainer has a good one,you can be sure most other yards will know- also,i could,but obviously won't name you quite a few jocks/owners and trainers who make alot from betting!


  • #32
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,765 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    mulbot wrote: »
    Will disagree here,(from experience,it's a very small community,these jockeys and especially workriders talk and socialize alot and if a trainer has a good one,you can be sure most other yards will know- also,i could,but obviously won't name you quite a few jocks/owners and trainers who make alot from betting!
    +1

    A lot of the small time trainers might only have 10 horses in training and of those, maybe one horse is capable of winning any kind of race. That final horse might be the only thing that's keeping the yard in the black - so of course the trainer is going to be meticulous with that that horse, getting the OR nice and low, giving it plenty of runs (really schooling on track) before they feel that the horse is ready to be allowed to win. It's when the horse is ready, you see the money being lashed on.

    Not all trainers will are backing horses, but a lot are.


  • #33
    pugw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 634 ✭✭✭pugw


    I wouldn't call it a conspiracy but it irritates me every time I'm in PP! The tone of the pp guy thay introduced him makes it sound like they are doing punters a favour! I tend to ignore whatever he says! I think pp would do well to get a more popular racing figure to do it as well as no many regular punters seem to have time for him!


  • #34
    Lt J.R. Bell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Lt J.R. Bell


    pugw wrote: »
    I wouldn't call it a conspiracy but it irritates me every time I'm in PP! The tone of the pp guy thay introduced him makes it sound like they are doing punters a favour! I tend to ignore whatever he says! I think pp would do well to get a more popular racing figure to do it as well as no many regular punters seem to have time for him!
    Speaking of Paddy Power shops, who is the girl that does voice overs about odds etc?

    Christ on a stick what a horrible horrible horrible accent


  • #35
    YoungKhalifa
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭YoungKhalifa


    Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »
    Speaking of Paddy Power shops, who is the girl that does voice overs about odds etc?

    Christ on a stick what a horrible horrible horrible accent


    Agreed, makes me avoid PP shops. So irritating.


  • #36
    Stacksey
    Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Stacksey


    Ever notice when Ruby REALLY wants to win a race he leads from the front but when he can't be arsed he's at the very back?


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  • #37
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Fecks sake plenty here made a mint when Walsh let it be known that American Trilogy was ready to win the County Hurdle a few years back!

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59400881&postcount=42


  • #38
    Sundance_Kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 364 ✭✭Sundance_Kid


    Has he always been grumpy and come across arrogant?


  • #39
    akelly02
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭akelly02


    Stacksey wrote: »
    Ever notice when Ruby REALLY wants to win a race he leads from the front but when he can't be arsed he's at the very back?

    Biggest load of dirt i ever read.i suppose kauto star in 2007 gold cup had no interest in winning? or master minded at aintree? you could pick hundreds upon hundreds of examples of how that statement is a complete joke.


  • #40
    curioser
    Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭curioser


    Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »
    Speaking of Paddy Power shops, who is the girl that does voice overs about odds etc?

    Christ on a stick what a horrible horrible horrible accent
    Is that Aoife in the booth, gives views on the BAGS dogs? The high-low tone of hers drives me around the bend.


  • #41
    dave3004
    Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭dave3004


    Francie Barrett wrote: »
    +1

    A lot of the small time trainers might only have 10 horses in training and of those, maybe one horse is capable of winning any kind of race. That final horse might be the only thing that's keeping the yard in the black - so of course the trainer is going to be meticulous with that that horse, getting the OR nice and low, giving it plenty of runs (really schooling on track) before they feel that the horse is ready to be allowed to win. It's when the horse is ready, you see the money being lashed on.

    Not all trainers will are backing horses, but a lot are.

    Firstly, if you think one horse is keeping a yard in the black you're wrong. Winning races that have big prizemoney isn't exactly easy. Winning a weak Dundalk class 5 twice a year isn't going to keep a stable afloat either but that's another discussion for another day.

    But owners, trainers, jockeys aren't price sensitive. I don't know any who make profit on the punt long term. They've no idea what market overrounds they're betting into & most of the time take bad prices. Why do you think bookies offer owners special products etc. Mug punters unfortunately.


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  • #42
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭mulbot


    dave3004 wrote: »
    Firstly, if you think one horse is keeping a yard in the black you're wrong. Winning races that have big prizemoney isn't exactly easy. Winning a weak Dundalk class 5 twice a year isn't going to keep a stable afloat either but that's another discussion for another day.

    But owners, trainers, jockeys aren't price sensitive. I don't know any who make profit on the punt long term. They've no idea what market overrounds they're betting into & most of the time take bad prices. Why do you think bookies offer owners special products etc. Mug punters unfortunately.

    Most small yards will stay in the black from running and selling young horses in the point to point scene,but one horse from a small yard that has been laid up for a race can easily keep a yard going( at least for a while)-one horse i know back in 2007 gave one of the connections well over 100 grand,and that's not even counting for the trainer's betting,these yards don't rely on the prizemoney,(that's too small an amount,) but rather on conning the bookies-Look at last year's Barney Curley coup that stung the bookies for a huge amount,do you think the people involved didn't know what the markets were going to offer? of course they did and they plotted around that,


  • #43
    Shemale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Shemale


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Fecks sake plenty here made a mint when Walsh let it be known that American Trilogy was ready to win the County Hurdle a few years back!

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59400881&postcount=42

    Yeah lads, jesus christ, Ruby told a guy working in the industry and word got around 6 years ago so everything he has said since must be the truth!


  • #44
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    racing is its very nature is a roughs game all too often. Anyone betting must realise that and not be surprised at ANYTHING that happens.


  • #45
    handsfree2
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭handsfree2


    In fairness to ruby most of the tips that I've seen him give recently have been winners. He tipped up 10/1 winner on the morning line in mid February.


  • #46
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,016 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    dave3004 wrote: »

    But owners, trainers, jockeys aren't price sensitive. I don't know any who make profit on the punt long term. They've no idea what market overrounds they're betting into & most of the time take bad prices. Why do you think bookies offer owners special products etc. Mug punters unfortunately.

    I will alter this slightly, as there are certainly exceptions in that some owners (best racing gambler in recent history was also an owner!) and trainers that are clued into punting. But essentially this is spot on bar a few exceptions. It makes sense that owners are poor punters since racehorse ownership is a poor value investment for the vast majority. If they are willing to put their money into the black hole that of ownership, their gambling investments arent likely to be good either.

    And anyway, even if there was shrewd punting trainers, who exactly are going to lay their bets? The strings the Byrnes crowd have to pull these days to even get a small bet on is ridiculous, and in the end the bookies make money from these gambles, as they may lose a bit at the initial big price, the price is chopped immediately and the clowns who follow in after are getting terrible value


  • #47
    sirdes
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭sirdes


    mulbot wrote: »
    Most small yards will stay in the black from running and selling young horses in the point to point scene,but one horse from a small yard that has been laid up for a race can easily keep a yard going( at least for a while)-one horse i know back in 2007 gave one of the connections well over 100 grand,and that's not even counting for the trainer's betting,these yards don't rely on the prizemoney,(that's too small an amount,) but rather on conning the bookies-Look at last year's Barney Curley coup that stung the bookies for a huge amount,do you think the people involved didn't know what the markets were going to offer? of course they did and they plotted around that,

    If these small yards are so successful at gambling on there horses why would bookmakers continue to take bets off them. They do occasionally land a gamble but most give it all back with interest. Most information and tips coming from smaller yards is rubbish and will put you in the poorhuse


  • #48
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭mulbot


    sirdes wrote: »
    If these small yards are so successful at gambling on there horses why would bookmakers continue to take bets off them. They do occasionally land a gamble but most give it all back with interest. Most information and tips coming from smaller yards is rubbish and will put you in the poorhuse

    maybe from your experience-Do you think the yards make it obvious that they are putting on bets? I know one guy who in 2007 ( he had a connection to the yard, ) who drove us around between Carlow,castlecomber,kilkenny,newbridge and a few other towns getting us to place bets on a horse,it won at 12/1,won another race 4 days later and again 2 weeks later,where in the last race we were told to double it up with another horse from a different yard that had set up their horse!! Most people here wouldn't have even heard of this,so you can be sure other yards do it without drawing attention to themselves..

    I agree with you about "tips" coming from second or third parties as being rubbish generally,but when people are in the know directly then that's advice worth taking,


  • #49
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,765 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    dave3004 wrote: »
    Firstly, if you think one horse is keeping a yard in the black you're wrong. Winning races that have big prizemoney isn't exactly easy. Winning a weak Dundalk class 5 twice a year isn't going to keep a stable afloat either but that's another discussion for another day.
    A lot of the small time trainers who are running horses in the bottom grade handicaps have very low costs (they own their own stables, their own pasture, they have family members tend the horses, etc). The attitude of these guys is that if they can just cover the costs, then they are happy. If they are lucky enough to have a horse that is capable of winning a race, then you can be sure that when that horse is allowed to run to its merits, it will win.


  • #50
    Lt J.R. Bell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Lt J.R. Bell


    YoungKhalifa wrote: »
    Agreed, makes me avoid PP shops. So irritating.

    One has to feel sorry for the boyfriend/girlfriend.

    Surely, its a comedy gag?


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