People promoted beyond their ability

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 25-05-2017 2:05pm #1

Someone in here has been promoted beyond their ability. They spend their time trying to foist work on to others, insisting they're too busy to do half the stuff they should be doing, while walking around with a haughty, important air.

They're not fooling anyone, but it's very annoying. Just wondering if any of you have had to work with people who've had a promotion and prove to be completely inadequate to the job?

Jesus Wept · 25-05-2017 2:07pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

Jobs OXO · 25-05-2017 2:07pm

Alyson Polite Podiatry wrote: »

Someone in here has been promoted beyond their ability. They spend their time trying to foist work on to others, insisting they're too busy to do half the stuff they should be doing, while walking around with a haughty, important air.

They're not fooling anyone, but it's very annoying. Just wondering if any of you have had to work with people who've had a promotion and prove to be completely inadequate to the job?

Someone in where ?

duffman13 · 25-05-2017 2:08pm

Alyson Polite Podiatry wrote: »

Someone in here has been promoted beyond their ability. They spend their time trying to foist work on to others, insisting they're too busy to do half the stuff they should be doing, while walking around with a haughty, important air.

They're not fooling anyone, but it's very annoying. Just wondering if any of you have had to work with people who've had a promotion and prove to be completely inadequate to the job?

It happens in lots of companies, perception is more important than ability a lot of the time. I had a very senior manager tell me the more senior you go in a job the more it's about what people think of you and not what you do. I've found it spot on to be fair

hairyslug · 25-05-2017 2:08pm

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Someone in where ?

In the internet, silly

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 25-05-2017 2:08pm

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Someone in where ?

Where I work.

Kimbot · 25-05-2017 2:08pm

I've worked with numerous of them.

optogirl · 25-05-2017 2:08pm

Alyson Polite Podiatry wrote: »

Someone in here has been promoted beyond their ability. They spend their time trying to foist work on to others, insisting they're too busy to do half the stuff they should be doing, while walking around with a haughty, important air.

They're not fooling anyone, but it's very annoying. Just wondering if any of you have had to work with people who've had a promotion and prove to be completely inadequate to the job?

They are fooling someone. Have the same situation in my workplace - someone waffled their way into a managerial position & then within about a month was off on stress leave. Complete bullshi*ter - everyone who ever worked beside or under him knows this but somehow management fell for his spake.

nelly17 · 25-05-2017 2:12pm

Theres a whole chain of command of them in my place - living in fear of being found out. If only they had the talent to match their ambition.

Teddington Cuddlesworth · 25-05-2017 2:12pm

That's life.
It's not what you can do, but what you can be seen to be doing.

Fratton Fred · 25-05-2017 2:13pm

Teddington Cuddlesworth wrote: »

That's life.
It's not what you can do, but what you can be seen to be doing.

It's not what you know, or even who you know.

It's what you know about who.

That's what gets you promoted

_Brian · 25-05-2017 2:16pm

Alyson Polite Podiatry wrote: »

Someone in here has been promoted beyond their ability. They spend their time trying to foist work on to others, insisting they're too busy to do half the stuff they should be doing, while walking around with a haughty, important air.

They're not fooling anyone, but it's very annoying. Just wondering if any of you have had to work with people who've had a promotion and prove to be completely inadequate to the job?

Delegation is a managers job.
Managers who can't delegate some of their work down onto direct reports will never be successful.
It's how the hyrachy of many companies works.

The manager gets more work completed than he could alone, the subordinates get to demonstrate they are capable of more than their core responsibility and so show they may be suitable for promotion, the company wins as it pushes projects forward.

If your in one of these companies there are two choices, dig in and work the system or stay on the outside and be passed by. Thinking doing your core job is enough to be recognised is not suitable for such companies. I've worked in such places, it's not for everyone and it becomes tiresome, but if job progression is what you want then it can happen quickly.

pickarooney · 25-05-2017 2:16pm

We have a few of them. All the boss' kids work there, one who has no talent, creativity or understanding of hard work and was made a director of something, swans in and out as she sees fit and fobs all her work off on the peons. The other one is hugely overrated by the parents and spends his whole time messing up code without telling anyone and making off the cuff decisions that make no sense.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 25-05-2017 2:21pm

_Brian wrote: »

Delegation is a managers job.
Managers who can't delegate some of their work down onto direct reports will never be successful.
It's how the hyrachy of many companies works.

The manager gets more work completed than he could alone, the subordinates get to demonstrate they are capable of more than their core responsibility and so show they may be suitable for promotion, the company wins as it pushes projects forward.

If your in one of these companies there are two choices, dig in and work the system or stay on the outside and be passed by. Thinking doing your core job is enough to be recognised is not suitable for such companies. I've worked in such places, it's not for everyone and it becomes tiresome, but if job progression is what you want then it can happen quickly.

They're not delegating to their own staff. They're insisting that various parts of their job are actually the responsibility of 'marketing', or 'finance' or whatever; or go whinging to the Manager who promoted them about being too busy and no one will help them etc.

Summer wind · 25-05-2017 2:39pm

Once worked for a manager who was known on the floor as "What's That" because that was the question she asked everyone when she looked at anything they were working on. She was promoted to manager because she had a claim for personal injury against the company and they offered to promote her to manager if she dropped the claim. So frustrating to have to explain every minor detail of projects to someone who was totally clueless.

Laois_Man · 25-05-2017 2:52pm

I have been with my employer for 8 and a half years and in that time, I have had 8 different managers and I swear at most, 3 of them were competent

2 of them were so incompetent, I complained to HR about them. I think the woman in HR thought I was a moaner although she didn't say it, but both of them have been let go since.

This company is absolutely crawling with wafflers!!

gerrybbadd · 25-05-2017 2:53pm

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Someone in where ?

Here

Unpossible · 25-05-2017 3:49pm

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Here

Ah here

Boom_Bap · 25-05-2017 3:49pm

<<

This guy

fg1406 · 25-05-2017 3:53pm

Hell yes. It seems the ability to talk the talk at an interview gets you places, not the work ethic or your productivity or loyalty to the employer over the past 8 years

Jesus Wept · 26-05-2017 2:20am

nelly17 wrote: »

Theres a whole chain of command of them in my place - living in fear of being found out. If only they had the talent to match their ambition.

What do they do all day?

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It's not what you know, or even who you know.

It's what you know about who.

That's what gets you promoted

Can you explain this?

Persephone kindness · 26-05-2017 4:17am

I have been lucky to work with some really amazing supportive people. I have been lucky I guess and respected them all.

I know that is not the same though in all businesses.

pauliebdub · 27-05-2017 8:07pm

Yes. In fact I'd say I've only ever had one good manager in my career to date and the last one in particular was very poor. An awkward introverted fella, none of us could understand how he got promoted.

pauliebdub · 27-05-2017 8:11pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It's not what you know, or even who you know.

It's what you know about who.

That's what gets you promoted

I agree, building relationships with the right people is more important than ability.

DeanAustin · 27-05-2017 8:18pm

Delegation is an important part of a manager's job but you can't just keep delegating particularly if your team is busy already. You have to "do" some of the time and, if nothing else, it gives you a great understanding of what your people have to do.

I find people go one of two ways in management. They either think "Now I'm the boss, people have to do what I say." Or they think "Now I'm the boss, I need to work harder and set the example." Too many people do the former.

Calahonda52 · 27-05-2017 8:19pm

Alyson Polite Podiatry wrote: »

Someone in here has been promoted beyond their ability. They spend their time trying to foist work on to others, insisting they're too busy to do half the stuff they should be doing, while walking around with a haughty, important air.

They're not fooling anyone, but it's very annoying. Just wondering if any of you have had to work with people who've had a promotion and prove to be completely inadequate to the job?

Read Pages 334 to 339. The Canvas Strategy. In Tim Ferriss book Tools of Titans.
Then learn the technique of" crucial conversations" in the book of the same name.
You can only push what is in your wheelbarrow, this issue is not, it's in your head.
Turn up, do the work, go home.

tritium · 27-05-2017 8:51pm

DeanAustin wrote: »

Delegation is an important part of a manager's job but you can't just keep delegating particularly if your team is busy already. You have to "do" some of the time and, if nothing else, it gives you a great understanding of what your people have to do.

I find people go one of two ways in management. They either think "Now I'm the boss, people have to do what I say." Or they think "Now I'm the boss, I need to work harder and set the example." Too many people do the former.

Spot on!

Ive worked with a small number of managers who were hopeleasly out of their depth, including a few who only survived by flogging the life out of great people they had working for them

As or more common though is the phenomena of people bitching about management, telling everyone how they could do better while generally understanding or caring about very little outside their own role. Often these are the first to whinge to their manager about how they deserve a promotion or a great appraisal. All the while being oblivious to how spectacularly **** and/or unreliable they actually are.

Alf Veedersane · 27-05-2017 8:57pm

DeanAustin wrote: »

I find people go one of two ways in management. They either think "Now I'm the boss, people have to do what I say." Or they think "Now I'm the boss, I need to work harder and set the example." Too many people do the former.

As an aside, being boss doesn't necessarily mean having to work harder to set an example. Being an effective boss isn't always about working harder. The role changes the higher up you go.

If a manager passes work off to others because his/her new role involves other work meaning they have to delegate work, that's one thing.

Of course there are plenty of people who pass off work because they think they're above it, they don't need to, etc. They're called w@nkers.

stateofflux · 27-05-2017 9:08pm

I have also found that people promoted to a position they cant do competently will actively create random unnecessary projects (for other people to work on) out of insecurity, to justify their position

DeanAustin · 27-05-2017 9:22pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

As an aside, being boss doesn't necessarily mean having to work harder to set an example. Being an effective boss isn't always about working harder. The role changes the higher up you go.

If a manager passes work off to others because his/her new role involves other work meaning they have to delegate work, that's one thing.

Of course there are plenty of people who pass off work because they think they're above it, they don't need to, etc. They're called w@nkers.

I'd disagree on the working harder bit although I know lots of people would hold the same view as you. By the way, by working harder, I don't mean that you just do more of what you were doing when you weren't a manager. If that's all you do, you're not managing.

But in my view, you need to be committed as a manager. You need to think more about work then you did before, you need to think/worry about the people you're managing and you need to always demand more of yourself than you do of your team.

ToddyDoody · 27-05-2017 9:39pm

Eh, that'd be Trump.

Fakediamond · 27-05-2017 11:12pm

To steal a term coined in WWI, a lot of employees are "lions led by donkeys". Some managers haven't grasped the concept that the employees are the company's best asset and should be supported and encouraged to get the best out of them. It seems to be a peculiarly Irish phenomen, especially noticed by anyone who has worked abroad.

Permabear · 27-05-2017 11:12pm

This post has been deleted.

Capt'n Midnight · 28-05-2017 12:28am

Donald Trump
Theresa May

stateofflux · 28-05-2017 8:55pm

Fakediamond wrote: »

To steal a term coined in WWI, a lot of employees are "lions led by donkeys". Some managers haven't grasped the concept that the employees are the company's best asset and should be supported and encouraged to get the best out of them. It seems to be a peculiarly Irish phenomen, especially noticed by anyone who has worked abroad.

It is strange that you said that. my uncle used to travel the country for a certain state body approving training grants for hundreds of companies. he would meet directors regularly from all different sized irish companies.

One thing he always said to me was how out of touch the majority were in terms of empathy and understanding an employees motivations. Not understanding that by reward and recognition you get more out of employees in the long run and that they will take what they think they are worth, one way or the other (whether by theft / lateness / going home on time during a crisis etc).

Conall Cernach · 28-05-2017 9:03pm

"I divide my officers into four groups. There are clever, diligent, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and diligent -- their place is the General Staff. The next lot are stupid and lazy -- they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the intellectual clarity and the composure necessary for difficult decisions. One must beware of anyone who is stupid and diligent -- he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always cause only mischief." - General von Hammerstein-Equord (the Red General)

doolox · 28-05-2017 9:30pm

For 10 years I do not have to put up with office politics.

I do not have to follow pointless rules or wear uniforms, attend meetings or listen to corporate nonsense.

I earn as much as I did as a corporate drone.

I have all the work I need and can get more if needed.

I went through all the stuff that is mentioned here, people being promoted beyond their abilities, pressure from clueless people who could not understand the basics of what was needed to get the job done etc..

It is most important to have three essential sources of knowledge in any career.
Knowledge of your field, be it computers, engineering etc...

Knowledge of money, how it is raised, earned, distributed and shared out, good to great negotiating skills and knowledge of pay levels in your sector. Knowledge of how performance is measured in your sector, always be looking for allies and feedback from customers in your workplace so that you can know what needs to be worked on and improved, every one you do a job for is a customer, if you keep enough of them happy a capricious boss cannot victimise you if he has to justify his actions to a properly run HR section or an external court....if you have enough witnesses, allies and satisfied customers it is a good defense.

I have been lucky to work for big corporations in which it was difficult to fall victim to the inevitable bullies that one encounters in an Irish worklife. Small companies are worse for this and family run companies are worst of all and should be avoided if possible.

I now have about 10 different regular clients in my day to day work. I do not have to attend any one place for longer than 2 hours, hence no office politics and I can replace any losses quickly and without any bother. It also helps that I am at an age when all loans are paid.....never let a boss know you have a mortgage or they will squeeze you dry.

A corporate tool once told me that no one is indispenable and I have taken that as my truth in life. No boss is any longer indispensable to me and I would never revert to working for just one boss and putting my whole life in his hands.

Big Barry · 28-05-2017 9:39pm

In Ireland people are generally promoted biased on who they know.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 29-05-2017 10:24am

In my experience, a lot of poor managers who don't really understand their job, concentrate more on the 'supervisory' part of the role to try and justify their existence. So instead of taking leadership on policies or new initiatives, they go around nit picking about staff's time keeping and such like; and making up new 'rules' that everyone must adhere to.

Basically, they view their promotion as being given more authority for staff behaviour, but fail to realise there is much more to being made a manager than that.

Cantona's Collars · 29-05-2017 10:31am

Alyson Polite Podiatry wrote: »

In my experience, a lot of poor managers who don't really understand their job, concentrate more on the 'supervisory' part of the role to try and justify their existence. So instead of taking leadership on policies or new initiatives, they go around nit picking about staff's time keeping and such like; and making up new 'rules' that everyone must adhere to.

Basically, they view their promotion as being given more authority for staff behaviour, but fail to realise there is much more to being made a manager than that.

Do you work in my place,we've one of them. Senior management role and basically hasn't a clue.Won't listen to advice and prioritises all the wrong stuff instead of what's important.
Another guy in my dept is pretty much the same, stupidity and arrogance all rolled into one. When there's a problem they put the head in the sand and hope some of us can fix it then rocks up later with the usual "oh did we have a bit of a problem there"? Has about as much computer knowledge as the average zoo animal,so a lot of buttons get pressed then panics and runs to us.Only in the role due to nepotism.

Hector Bellend · 29-05-2017 10:50am

If it were brains that got people into management the world would be such a better place

Game Face MCGee · 29-05-2017 1:52pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

I have been with my employer for 8 and a half years and in that time, I have had 8 different managers and I swear at most, 3 of them were competent

2 of them were so incompetent, I complained to HR about them. I think the woman in HR thought I was a moaner although she didn't say it, but both of them have been let go since.

This company is absolutely crawling with wafflers!!

if you're so "good" why haven't you been made the manager?

Game Face MCGee · 29-05-2017 1:56pm

Hector Bellend wrote: »

If it were brains that got people into management the world would be such a better place

management is about leading and managing people. you don't need to be Einstein. some of the greatest managers I've worked with we not the best at the day to day job. (eg an engineering manager, **** engineer, but awesome at delivering projects on time, on budget and accurately, lead innovation and dove his team to achieve great success)

RoboRat · 29-05-2017 2:06pm

Alyson Polite Podiatry wrote: »

Someone in here has been promoted beyond their ability. They spend their time trying to foist work on to others, insisting they're too busy to do half the stuff they should be doing, while walking around with a haughty, important air.

They're not fooling anyone, but it's very annoying. Just wondering if any of you have had to work with people who've had a promotion and prove to be completely inadequate to the job?

People offloading work to other people and getting away with it is what management is all about!

Being haughty and self-important is just an added extra that will help this person be a successful manager.

I used to manage a department and I would do the lions share of the work until I got pulled up and told that wasn't my responsibility, I was to make sure the work got done, was done right and to focus on the strategic planning. A managers job is to manage by making sure the team have the right skills to get the job done and to manage how the work is allocated, manage the deadlines, manage budgets and ensure the job done to the highest standards.

You can't do the work and monitor a team at the same time so whilst this person may not be as capable as you work wise, they might be a better fit for management. This is where people get confused and pissed off, being great at what you do doesn't equate to you being a great manager - they can be, and often are, very different skill sets

Ray Palmer · 29-05-2017 2:16pm

I have been working as an IT contractor for nearly 20 years now which means I have worked in a lot of comapnies. Various management styles and process over this time have been observed.
The worst case I saw was there was a guy who worked late every night getting a promotion. The managers saw he was always working late so saw his committment as ability. If they had checked around they would have seen the reason he worked late was he wasn't able to keep up and his out put was below standards and he was achieving less than others. His amazing management style was to ask people to work longer hours. That was all he ever did.
Having been a manager I can also say many employees are incredibly careless or ignore what they are told. Spent months on agreeing a process with a client and the team working on the project. Everything was documented and there were meetings and training. After two months all teething issues were resolved and it was all set in stone. Last week I had to pull some People into a meeting and ask them to explain what they were doing as they weren't following procedure. The answered varied but generally it came down to I didn't know we changed process. To hear that from a person you were in a meeting discussing the changes drives you insane. The changes were to make the billing work but the developers saw it as extra work and just hassle. If the company can't get paid the staff can't get paid.
I also changed responsibility for certain things and a persin claimed I was fobbing off my work to them. The reality was it was always their job but they were so bad at it they had it taken off them by the previous manager. I gave it back to them and made it so if they failed to do it on time and correct they had to stay and correct it. The other manager had been letting them off.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 29-05-2017 2:17pm

RoboRat wrote: »

People offloading work to other people and getting away with it is what management is all about!

Being haughty and self-important is just an added extra that will help this person be a successful manager.

I used to manage a department and I would do the lions share of the work until I got pulled up and told that wasn't my responsibility, I was to make sure the work got done, was done right and to focus on the strategic planning. A managers job is to manage by making sure the team have the right skills to get the job done and to manage how the work is allocated, manage the deadlines, manage budgets and ensure the job done to the highest standards.

You can't do the work and monitor a team at the same time so whilst this person may not be as capable as you work wise, they might be a better fit for management. This is where people get confused and pissed off, being great at what you do doesn't equate to you being a great manager - they can be, and often are, very different skill sets

As I explained previously, they are not delegating work to their own staff. They are refusing to accept responsibility for tasks that come within their remit, and finding excuses to fob them off onto other areas of the organisation.

They are well in with the overall manager, so if anyone complains, they just go whinging to him that no one wants to 'help' them and everyone gets told off for not 'supporting' poor X.

RoboRat · 29-05-2017 2:27pm

Alyson Polite Podiatry wrote: »

As I explained previously, they are not delegating work to their own staff. They are refusing to accept responsibility for tasks that come within their remit, and finding excuses to fob them off onto other areas of the organisation.

They are well in with the overall manager, so if anyone complains, they just go whinging to him that no one wants to 'help' them and everyone gets told off for not 'supporting' poor X.

This happens, I remember a guy getting promoted to director and he was the most hapless person I have ever encountered, used to completely day dream during management meetings and just talk his way out of a question with some well rehearsed marketing puns. He was taking home a 6 figure salary but hadn't a clue of what he was doing.

I left the job, went to a new company and same story different company.

Laois_Man · 30-05-2017 10:53pm

Game Face MCGee wrote: »

if you're so "good" why haven't you?been made?the manager?

Who said I'm not a manager?

Only the company president doesn't have a manager you dope!

People promoted beyond their ability

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