Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

DNA Analysis

Options
1…910121415…35

Comments

  • Options
    #332
    Irishweather
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 260 ✭✭Irishweather


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    I really cannot stress enough that these ethnicity estimates are going to change over time as more people test. They're just a fun discussion point but I don't pay much attention to them.
    You would think it would show at the very least,a few percentage points of GB. Considering there is only a Scottish GB genetic community I can assume that the Irish is overinflated.

    With regards to Gedmatch, what is Orcadian? I keep showing up as matches to their population


  • Options
    #333
    JamboMac
    Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭JamboMac


    Irishweather wrote: »
    You would think it would show at the very least,a few percentage points of GB. Considering there is only a Scottish GB genetic community I can assume that the Irish is overinflated.

    With regards to Gedmatch, what is Orcadian? I keep showing up as matches to their population

    I think orcadian is the Orkney islands off Scotland.


  • Options
    #334
    Irishweather
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 260 ✭✭Irishweather


    Here are my results anyway:
    423844.png


  • Options
    #335
    srmf5
    Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭srmf5


    Irishweather wrote: »
    You would think it would show at the very least,a few percentage points of GB. Considering there is only a Scottish GB genetic community I can assume that the Irish is overinflated.

    Your lack of a Great Britain percentage doesn't contradict your genetic community of Scottish though since Scottish people get Irish as their highest percentage since it reflects Ireland, Scotland and Wales ancestry. Have a read of this article:
    https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2017/01/25/ancestrydna-the-irish-connection/

    If you look it up online you'll come across many instances of Scottish people wondering about their result since they come up as being fully nearly Irish. There's not much else I can tell you about your results. I wouldn't get bogged down on it though anyway since as pinky says it's always changing as more people test.

    With regards to GEDmatch Eurogenes K13 I find to be good.


  • Options
    #336
    Irishweather
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 260 ✭✭Irishweather


    What would the Eastern European be though, noise? I'm going to wait and see what MyHeritage says in the hope that it gives more clarification.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #337
    srmf5
    Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭srmf5


    Irishweather wrote: »
    What would the Eastern European be though, noise? I'm going to wait and see what MyHeritage says in the hope that it gives more clarification.

    Noise or something from very long ago. It is such a small percentage that I wouldn't pay it any heed. Yeah see what MyHeritage gives you.


  • Options
    #338
    shar01
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭shar01


    JDERIC2017 wrote: »
    Hi, I have found a relation that proves the man I researched is actually my great grandfather, only problem is this relation is not answering my messages, I guess it is just a waiting game 😟🤔

    Same happened when I found my grandmother's birth family - no response to initial message sent to a "grand niece" of hers despite the person logging in every day. I waited a little while and resent the message. She responded - rather half heartedly I felt.

    Best of luck.


  • Options
    #339
    JDERIC2017
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭JDERIC2017


    shar01 wrote: »
    Same happened when I found my grandmother's birth family - no response to initial message sent to a "grand niece" of hers despite the person logging in every day. I waited a little while and resent the message. She responded - rather half heartedly I felt.

    Best of luck.

    Thanks shar01 I just got a reply ( i know i was impatient) but this is huge news, anyway all good and hopefully more questions will be answered!


  • Options
    #340
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    miezekatze wrote: »
    I think 'Irish' on ancestry might mean Celtic. I am from central Europe from an area where the Celts lived over 2000 years ago, and apparently I am 10% 'Irish'. I'm not aware of any Irish ancestors (very unlikely) so I think that's the most likely explanation.

    Well obviously it has somewhat of a wider spread, for example people form North Wales. 10% is significant level, what should be remember of course is there was widespread Irish migration to the continent during the 17th/18th centuries, with large scale Irish service in the Spanish, French and Austrian armies.

    What I would suggest if possible to get family members (particulary parents tested) to rule see if the component is specific to one segment of your lineage (eg. via one parent over the other etc.)


  • Options
    #341
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    JamboMac wrote: »
    I think orcadian is the Orkney islands off Scotland.

    Indeed, back when this DNA marlarky started in early 2000 the Orkney Islands were a favoured location for population sampling. This was based on idea of:
    • Small island group, history of minimum population input (lets not mention Scapa Flow, or Oil!)
    • As islands off Britain, they were thought to be good approx for a 'indigenous british' sample

    the problem with last idea of course is it completely ignores the history of Orkney eg. that it was part of Kingdom of Norway until the 15th century and that a Old-Norse derived language (Norn) was spoken there as late as the 18th century.

    What we now see with higher coverage testing is that people in Orkney can be modelled as an admixed population with large input (perhaps on order of 20-30% of genome) from Scandinavia. As a result in analysis they fall between mainland Scottish (well or most British) samples and Norway/Scandinavia.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #342
    montgo
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    Hi,
    My 3rd cousin has had his Y DNA test results returned. The only problem is that he has only 2 matches and both of them have different surnames. One of these matches show that their earliest known ancestors (from early 1700s) lived in Scotland and the other in Essex with genetic distance of 4 & 5.

    Our confirmed ancestor was born early 1800s in Ireland and we suspect that his ancestors probably came to Ireland at least a century before then.

    So would these matches be considered as non paternal events? What else can I infer from these matches?

    Thanks


  • Options
    #343
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    montgo wrote: »
    Hi,
    My 3rd cousin has had his Y DNA test results returned. The only problem is that he has only 2 matches and both of them have different surnames. One of these matches show that their earliest known ancestors (from early 1700s) lived in Scotland and the other in Essex with genetic distance of 4 & 5.

    Our confirmed ancestor was born early 1800s in Ireland and we suspect that his ancestors probably came to Ireland at least a century before then.

    So would these matches be considered as non paternal events? What else can I infer from these matches?

    Thanks

    Hi,

    If he has done the testing in FamilytreeDNA, please consider joining the Ireland yDNA Project. I will be able to run a genetic distance report comparing your cousin with over 7k members. What level of STR testing has he done? It could be case that at low STR level (25 etc.) that you are only seeing small set of matches due to the matching restrictions (driven by genetic distance) in FTDNA.

    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ireland-heritage


  • Options
    #344
    Alicat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,264 ✭✭✭✭Alicat


    I do wonder how many possible extra-marital affairs might throw off an expected DNA result...


  • Options
    #345
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Alicat wrote: »
    I do wonder how many possible extra-marital affairs might throw off an expected DNA result...

    There was a research paper published on NPE (eg. 'Non-Paternity events') couple of years ago looking at Y-DNA lineages. I believe they came up with a probability per generation. However I also think there was another paper which show that level of 'cuckoldry' in men of European origin (eg. where they didn't match their supposed father) was actually quite a low percentage compared to previously thought.

    Of course when it comes to Y-DNA there are other reasons why men with certain surnames might not match such as:
    1. Multiple independent surname occurances eg. Murphy, Kelly etc.
    2. Adoption
    3. Surname change
    4. Surname assimilation eg. rarer surname takes form of a common one eg. O'Diff -> Duffy in Mayo etc.

    To give a slightly different example of contunity, within the Irish genealogical tradition certain surnames form kindreds. So for example in medieval genealogies we see that there are at least two distinct McManus families. One is a branch of the O'Connor's of Connacht (descendant from Maghnus Ua Conchobhair) the other a branch of the Maguires (descendant from Maghnus Mag Uidhre). Unsurprisingly in the McManus DNA project we see two large clusters (along with smaller ones, plus singletons), one of these clusters matches with men bearing surname O'Connor (and other Uí Briúin surnames of Connacht) the other belongs to a genetic cluster called 'Aírgialla II' which contains lot men bearing the surname Maguire.

    In both cases the specific McManus family 'branched' from it's parent surname (O'Connor or Maguire) on the order of 600+ years ago, let we still see genetic matches with other men bearing the 'parent surname'.


  • Options
    #346
    Irishweather
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 260 ✭✭Irishweather


    I uploaded my raw data to MyHeritage, and it has been dramatically dulled down, to:

    94.7%, Irish, Scottish and Welsh.
    1.5% Balkan.
    1.2% South Asian.
    2.6% East European.

    So, for me, the West European and Melanesia has been removed, but interestingly the South Asian and East European has not. Does that mean then that I actually do have South Asian ancestry?

    With regards to the 94.7%, can I assume that's all Irish or not? Honestly, it is annoying that these sites group up the Celtc regions, I know that they are similar, but I have to say, that they aren't THAT similar.


  • Options
    #347
    Irishweather
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 260 ✭✭Irishweather


    Also, why am I not getting any named matches for my immediate relations (4 grandparents)? It's all names that are way back in my family tree or distant relatives, for example, my maternal grandmother's, mothers surname or my maternal grandmothers, mothers surname.


  • Options
    #348
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Irishweather wrote: »
    I uploaded my raw data to MyHeritage, and it has been dramatically dulled down, to:

    94.7%, Irish, Scottish and Welsh.
    1.5% Balkan.
    1.2% South Asian.
    2.6% East European.

    So, for me, the West European and Melanesia has been removed, but interestingly the South Asian and East European has not. Does that mean then that I actually do have South Asian ancestry?

    With regards to the 94.7%, can I assume that's all Irish or not? Honestly, it is annoying that these sites group up the Celtc regions, I know that they are similar, but I have to say, that they aren't THAT similar.

    Well Ireland and Scotland are extremely similiar, remember the same language was basically spoken in both for close on 1000 years. The spilt between modern Irish and Scottish Gaidhlig only really dates to post 1200, with common literally standard lasting until about 1600.

    Needless to say the output of a Calculator is dependent on the sampleset it's using as a reference. If they for example don't have a large Welsh sampleset (eg. 100-200+) than a distinct Welsh component won't show up in their run's etc.

    The matches you are getting in Ancestry are due to what's in their testing database, if you don't have any near relatives (within last 100-200 years) containing your surname (or that of your other three grandparents) they won't show up as a match. Obviously as their sample database gets bigger and bigger this will improve.


  • Options
    #349
    pjproby
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭pjproby


    food for thought on dna testing

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/i-thought-i-was-irish-until-i-did-a-dna-test-1.3174491


  • Options
    #350
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    dubhthach wrote: »
    There was a research paper published on NPE (eg. 'Non-Paternity events') couple of years ago looking at Y-DNA lineages. I believe they came up with a probability per generation. However I also think there was another paper which show that level of 'cuckoldry' in men of European origin (eg. where they didn't match their supposed father) was actually quite a low percentage compared to previously thought.

    Of course when it comes to Y-DNA there are other reasons why men with certain surnames might not match such as:
    1. Multiple independent surname occurances eg. Murphy, Kelly etc.
    2. Adoption
    3. Surname change
    4. Surname assimilation eg. rarer surname takes form of a common one eg. O'Diff -> Duffy in Mayo etc.

    To give a slightly different example of contunity, within the Irish genealogical tradition certain surnames form kindreds. So for example in medieval genealogies we see that there are at least two distinct McManus families. One is a branch of the O'Connor's of Connacht (descendant from Maghnus Ua Conchobhair) the other a branch of the Maguires (descendant from Maghnus Mag Uidhre). Unsurprisingly in the McManus DNA project we see two large clusters (along with smaller ones, plus singletons), one of these clusters matches with men bearing surname O'Connor (and other Uí Briúin surnames of Connacht) the other belongs to a genetic cluster called 'Aírgialla II' which contains lot men bearing the surname Maguire.

    In both cases the specific McManus family 'branched' from it's parent surname (O'Connor or Maguire) on the order of 600+ years ago, let we still see genetic matches with other men bearing the 'parent surname'.

    Wasn't there results that showed something similar with surnames linked to Cenel Conail?


  • Options
    #351
    torrevieja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭torrevieja


    I have a few questions here, i take it that the more people who do thid DNA test will give a better result in general?

    if my relations or long lost relatives dont do this test how will i possibily get a /match?

    and lastly if i do test with Ancestery and two other different genealogy companies am i going to have the same results ?

    thanks


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #352
    Irishweather
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 260 ✭✭Irishweather


    You will get matches with mostly Americans, who will mostly be 2nd/3rd cousins at best. It is possible that you will get some Irish matches, but don't hold out on that.


  • Options
    #353
    torrevieja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭torrevieja


    Irishweather wrote: »
    You will get matches with mostly Americans, who will mostly be 2nd/3rd cousins at best. It is possible that you will get some Irish matches, but don't hold out on that.

    so its a waste of time ?


  • Options
    #354
    KildareFan
    Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    torrevieja wrote: »
    so its a waste of time ?

    Not a waste of time at all - I have found few Irish cousins, but that's not a problem as I know most of them anyway. What has been incredibly helpful is finding distant cousins in the US who have managed to retain information on their Irish ancestors which has helped me to find out more about my own Irish ancestors - just one example, Great Great Aunty Margaret [whose existence I wasn't aware of] who emigrated to West Virginia in the 1870s, and whose descendants have her photo, a handwritten account of her journey to the US by her husband, a mortuary card for her sister Bridget who died in Dublin, which allowed me to find out who Bridget married & who her children were, and then led me to great great Aunty Ellen who joined her sister in West Virginia in the 1920s and who left a will leaving 1000s of dollars to the local Catholic church for masses for her deceased siblings, including my great grand father.....


  • Options
    #355
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Ipso wrote: »
    Wasn't there results that showed something similar with surnames linked to Cenel Conail?

    You are thinking of the Trinity College Study on M222, of course they also included surnames linked to the Uí Briúin of Connacht, not surprisingly as we know that a near relative of the current O'Conor Don is tested M222+


  • Options
    #356
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Well, think about this way: what do you hope to gain from the test?

    If you're looking to find close relatives, you're better off employing more traditional methods of genealogy unless you're adopted.

    If you've already done the usual methods, well, DNA is a new tool in your belt and it can help you find more distant cousins. I think FTDNA has more Irish people in its database at the moment.

    To give you an idea: I tested on Ancestry and the closest matches were a first cousin once removed and a second cousin, both of whom I know personally.
    On the next level, a few new matches, some of whom responded to messages and some who didn't. I've been able to figure out the area they descend from on my tree in most cases.

    I also tested on FTDNA: uncovered a new third cousin which lead to a whole extra branch in Australia. I had her great-grandmother on my tree but had not investigated what happened to her.

    Gedmatch (third party) has ultimately led to the best results: uncovering a family mystery.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Options
    #357
    KildareFan
    Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    Well, think about this way: what do you hope to gain from the test?

    If you're looking to find close relatives, you're better off employing more traditional methods of genealogy unless you're adopted. .

    Re Adoption - I matched with two individuals who were related to each other; when I sent a message, I received a response from an adoption tracer who was working on behalf of the connections who had both been adopted in Dublin. I wasn't able to help since I couldn't figure out where the relationship was.


  • Options
    #358
    Irishweather
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 260 ✭✭Irishweather


    Sorry, posting too much, but i've found something interesting again!

    I've uploaded my DNA to Gedmatch, and found ONE match for my Paternal surname. This women is Austrailian, and listed as my 5th Cousin (12 C?), she has a website and it turns out her GG grandfather was born in Australia in the 1870's and that is where the trail ends.

    Would this mean, then that the man born in the 1870's is my GGG Grandfather's son born in 1810?

    This women does not have any connections to Ireland/Northern Ireland so i'm not sure how she would tie this up.

    I'm also very confused as to how this man got to Australia in the 1870's? There where no ships in Ireland to Australia in the 1870's so why and how would this have happened?


  • Options
    #359
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Slow down for a minute: there's all sorts of plausible reasons, not limited to:

    a) She is wrong
    b) non-paternal event
    c) surname change
    d) person went to Australia via England or some other country

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Options
    #360
    Irishweather
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 260 ✭✭Irishweather


    What do you mean she is wrong? She matched up with me.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #361
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Yes, but she could be wrong about where her gg grandfather was born.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



Advertisement