Clamped unfairly and missed flight as a result .. what recourse to I have?

Crock Rock · 16-05-2019 5:01pm #1

So I was parked up and I paid for my parking by text. I was due to catch a flight later that day.

Lets say my registration number is 12-C-45678.
When I got back to my car, it was clamped ! I panicked because I knew that I had a flight to catch in four hours from then to the UK, I was supposed to be driving to the long term car park in Dublin Airport.

I assumed initially that it might have been my mistake, so I check my account and it definitely was paid and the text went through for park by text.

I looked at the notice stuck to the window and it said registration:
12-C-45768. The wrong reg !!!

I rang up with my own reg and asked the woman on the phone (who was ignorant as the day is long) for the clamper to come unclamp me, she told me that there was no record of me being clamped, I told her the incorrect reg that was written on the notice and she said "Ah, yes, you were clamped for not paying for parking"!

I said the clamper must've mixed up my reg when checking it on the system and thus though I had not paid. She conceded but said that I still have to pay to have the clamp removed then I can initiate the appeals process and I'll get my money back. I had only a credit card (my current account was very low) and I rarely have cash.

I stressed that I had a flight to catch and that I had to go to the UK for a few days, but she said her hands were tied. I hurried over to a local Garda station and I was told that it was a civil matter and none of their concern.

The clamper took almost three hours to come, after they took payment. I drove to Dublin Airport knowing I probably wouldn't make the flight, and I didn't.
I wasn't out of pocket myself the flights and accommodation were paid for by work and I was expected over there at a meeting (I was chosen to represent the Dublin branch).

My manager was very understanding and sympathetic and put me on a next day flight, she even reimbursed me for the un-clamp fee (both from the company purse even though it was my car). But she said she will push tooth and nail and drag it through courts and recoup flights, accommodation and the unclamp fee and lost company time.

Any ideas will the clamping company have to cough up?

mickdw · 16-05-2019 5:08pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

So I was parked up and I paid for my parking by text. I was due to catch a flight later that day.

Lets say my registration number is 12-C-45678.
When I got back to my car, it was clamped ! I panicked because I knew that I had a flight to catch in four hours from then to the UK, I was supposed to be driving to the long term car park in Dublin Airport.

I assumed initially that it might have been my mistake, so I check my account and it definitely was paid and the text went through for park by text.

I looked at the notice stuck to the window and it said registration:
12-C-45768. The wrong reg !!!

I rang up with my own reg and asked the woman on the phone (who was ignorant as the day is long) for the clamper to come unclamp me, she told me that there was no record of me being clamped, I told her the incorrect reg that was written on the notice and she said "Ah, yes, you were clamped for not paying for parking"!

I said the clamper must've mixed up my reg when checking it on the system and thus though I had not paid. She conceded but said that I still have to pay to have the clamp removed then I can initiate the appeals process and I'll get my money back. I had only a credit card (my current account was very low) and I rarely have cash.

I stressed that I had a flight to catch and that I had to go to the UK for a few days, but she said her hands were tied. I hurried over to a local Garda station and I was told that it was a civil matter and none of their concern.

The clamper took almost three hours to come, and took payment. I drove to Dublin Airport knowing I probably wouldn't make the flight, and I didn't.
I wasn't out of pocket myself the flights and accommodation were paid for by work and I was expected over there at a meeting (I was chosen to represent the Dublin branch).

My manager was very understanding and sympathetic and put me on a next day flight, she even reimbursed me for the un-clamp fee (both from the company purse even though it was my car). But she said she will push tooth and nail and drag it through courts and recoup flights, accommodation and the unclamp fee and lost company time.

Any ideas will the clamping company have to cough up?

So you didn't mix up the reg when paying, they clamped your legally parked car and issued the notice of clamping with the wrong reg?
If that is the case, take them on big time but because they are a scummy type they will probably try to say they never clamped your car. It was the other reg they clamped and had nothing to do with you and they won't be able to discuss how you came to pay for clamping of some other random vehicle that they cannot talk to you about because it's not your car.

Crock Rock · 16-05-2019 5:10pm

The Garda told me it was a civil matter, but he said the minute I touch the clamp it'll be criminal and I'll be in bother.

Spook_ie · 16-05-2019 5:14pm

Are they not supposed to unclamp you within a specified time limit of agreeing to pay or actually paying?

Crock Rock · 16-05-2019 5:17pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Are they not supposed to unclamp you within a specified time limit of agreeing to pay or actually paying?

I never knw that. But the situation is a clusterfuck

ahnowbrowncow · 16-05-2019 5:17pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

The Garda told me it was a civil matter, but he said the minute I touch the clamp it'll be criminal and I'll be in bother.

Yet the clampers are allowed interfere with your property with no consequence even when you've paid for parking?

GM228 · 16-05-2019 5:21pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Are they not supposed to unclamp you within a specified time limit of agreeing to pay or actually paying?

As soon as practicable or within two hours after receipt of payment, but...

Crock Rock wrote: »

The clamper took almost three hours to come, and took payment.

Spook_ie · 16-05-2019 5:21pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Are they not supposed to unclamp you within a specified time limit of agreeing to pay or actually paying?

2 hours is timelimit from payment, assume if you've agreed to pay the driver it's still 2 hours

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Vehicle_Clamping__Signage_Regulations_2017.pdf

Crock Rock · 16-05-2019 5:22pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

2 hours is timelimit from payment, assume if you've agreed to pay the driver it's still 2 hours

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Vehicle_Clamping__Signage_Regulations_2017.pdf

I paid by card over the phone.

GM228 · 16-05-2019 5:25pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

I paid by card over the phone.

When though? You said the clamper took payment (which struck me as odd).

Spook_ie · 16-05-2019 5:26pm

GM228 wrote: »

As soon as practicable or within two hours after receipt of payment.

If they take more than 2 hours they have to repay the fee

6 (a) and 6 (d) of the legislation.

As to recompense for flight etc. Would imagine small claims court would sort them if they don't offer immediately to pay.

Crock Rock · 16-05-2019 5:28pm

GM228 wrote: »

When though? You said the clamper took payment (which struck me as odd).

Apologies for the confusion, OP is amended.

Crock Rock wrote: »

The clamper took almost three hours to come, after they took payment. I drove to Dublin Airport knowing I probably wouldn't m

Crock Rock · 16-05-2019 5:29pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

If they take more than 2 hours they have to repay the fee

6 (a) and 6 (d) of the legislation.

As to recompense for flight etc. Would imagine small claims court would sort them if they don't offer immediately to pay.

Is that not only for services which were paid for but not delivered?

GM228 · 16-05-2019 5:29pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

If they take more than 2 hours they have to repay the fee

6 (a) and 6 (d) of the legislation.

As to recompense for flight etc. Would imagine small claims court would sort them if they don't offer immediately to pay.

Indeed, but the timeframe only starts when the payment is made, it is hard to tell from what the OP has written if they paid and then waited 3 hours or paid when the clamper arrived.

SCP will not deal with clamping issues.

Odyssey 2005 · 16-05-2019 5:31pm

mickdw wrote: »

So you didn't mix up the reg when paying, they clamped your legally parked car and issued the notice of clamping with the wrong reg?
If that is the case, take them on big time but because they are a scummy type they will probably try to say they never clamped your car. It was the other reg they clamped and had nothing to do with you and they won't be able to discuss how you came to pay for clamping of some other random vehicle that they cannot talk to you about because it's not your car.

^^This. If this is indeed the case I'd peruse them to the ends of the earth. Flights,hotels,meals,clamping fee,coffee whilst waiting and a substantial inconvenience payment.

GM228 · 16-05-2019 5:31pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

Apologies for the confusion, OP is amended.

They owe you a refund so weather or not you were clamped incorrectly or not.

16-05-2019 5:33pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

The Garda told me it was a civil matter, but he said the minute I touch the clamp it'll be criminal and I'll be in bother.

This is nonsense, there are countless accounts of people removing clamps themselves on here and never once was there any hassle over it.

I’d have cut it to pieces immediately to ensure I made my flight. Even if they actually did try to peruse you (which they wouldn’t) don’t didnt have your reg.

TheValeyard · 16-05-2019 5:35pm

Esmeralda Careful Bee wrote: »

This is nonsense, there are countless accounts of people removing clamps themselves on here and never once was there any hassle over it.

Suppose the difference is removing a clamp or telling a Garda about actually removing a clamp.

the_pen_turner · 16-05-2019 5:35pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

The Garda told me it was a civil matter, but he said the minute I touch the clamp it'll be criminal and I'll be in bother.

surely this is covered under theft. isnt stopping someone using their own property the same and taking it.

Wishbone Ash · 16-05-2019 5:36pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

If they take more than 2 hours they have to repay the fee

6 (a) and 6 (d) of the legislation..

Does that apply to private clampers?

I was clamped a few years ago by the DDDA late on a Saturday night. I parked in a laneway near the North Wall. I just assumed it was a public place and there was a line of other cars parked up. Turns out it was private property and I returned around 1am to find the car alone and clamped.

I telephoned the number provided multiple times over the next hour but it remained unanswered.I ended up paying for a taxi home and another one in the following morning. When I took it up with the DDDA, they replied that the don't unclamp 'out of hours'. They had no problem clamping 'out of hours'.

GM228 · 16-05-2019 5:38pm

Esmeralda Careful Bee wrote: »

This is nonsense, there are countless accounts of people removing clamps themselves on here and never once was there any hassle over it.

I’d have cut it to pieces immediately to ensure I made my flight. Even if they actually did try to peruse you (which they wouldn’t) don’t didnt have your reg.

I have personally attended a few District Court sittings where people have been prosecuted for criminal damage for removing and damaging clamps.

GM228 · 16-05-2019 5:40pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Does that apply to private clampers?

Yes.

ED E · 16-05-2019 7:03pm

Esmeralda Careful Bee wrote: »

didnt have your reg.

Some of the clampers take a picture. If so they would have the correct reg when looking later.

mgbgt1978 · 16-05-2019 7:06pm

Which would only assist the Op's claim that they were illegally clamped...therefore the use of force to remove the clamp could be probably justified.

antodeco · 16-05-2019 7:42pm

I don't seem to see it, but were they private clampers or council clampers?

Silent Running · 16-05-2019 7:50pm

GM228 wrote: »

I have personally attended a few District Court sittings where people have been prosecuted for criminal damage for removing and damaging clamps.

What about if you remove the clamp with no damage whatsoever?

Interslice · 16-05-2019 7:51pm

Silent Running wrote: »

What about if you remove the clamp with no damage whatsoever?

What clamp?

Silent Running · 16-05-2019 7:53pm

Interslice wrote: »

What clamp?

The one on the wheel?

OldMrBrennan83 · 16-05-2019 7:53pm

Silent Running wrote: »

The one on the wheel?

That clamp was on a different car with a different reg.

mgbgt1978 · 16-05-2019 7:58pm

Silent Running wrote: »

What about if you remove the clamp with no damage whatsoever?

Totally legal with a Private Clamp.
Totally illegal where a Local Authority is involved.

Silent Running · 16-05-2019 7:59pm

GM228 wrote: »

I have personally attended a few District Court sittings where people have been prosecuted for criminal damage for removing and damaging clamps.

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

That clamp was on a different car with a different reg.

My post was a question to GM228.

If a person removes a clamp from their car leaving the clamp completely undamaged, is it still considered criminal damage?

L1011 · 16-05-2019 8:01pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Does that apply to private clampers?

I was clamped a few years ago by the DDDA late on a Saturday night. I parked in a laneway near the North Wall. I just assumed it was a public place and there was a line of other cars parked up. Turns out it was private property and I returned around 1am to find the car alone and clamped.

I telephoned the number provided multiple times over the next hour but it remained unanswered.I ended up paying for a taxi home and another one in the following morning. When I took it up with the DDDA, they replied that the don't unclamp 'out of hours'. They had no problem clamping 'out of hours'.

DDDA ceased to exist before this legislation came in - this is quite recent.

Also, I believe the DDDA were authorised under the old legislation when private clampers operated in a surreal limbo of no regulation and little to no case law - competently put together legal threats usually got refunds. State bodies - councils, Irish Rail contractors etc - were covered by different older legislation that this has replaced the lot of. I think!

GM228 · 16-05-2019 8:37pm

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Which would only assist the Op's claim that they were illegally clamped...therefore the use of force to remove the clamp could be probably justified.

That's very debatable, two wrongs don't make a right, you can defeat a charge of criminal damage when you have a "lawful excuse", removing a clamp because it is unlawfully clamped is not in and of itself a lawful excuse, however, there could be an argument to be made that you could defeat a charge of CD to abate a nuisance caused by the clamp, we discussed this (in an unrelated context) in the Legal Discussion forum and the jury is still very much out on that one.

GM228 · 16-05-2019 8:43pm

Silent Running wrote: »

What about if you remove the clamp with no damage whatsoever?

Depends, damage aside removing a clamp which has been applied by or on behalf of a local authority is a criminal offence (even if wrongly clamped), on behalf of is important to note because this also applies to private clampers who are clamping on behalf of the local authority.

Also worth noting that when you remove a clamp without damaging it there is still a potential for a criminal damage charge depending on what you do with the clamp after you remove it, for example if you left it on the road or some other place where it would be damaged later you can be reckless as to whether it would be damaged.

Spook_ie · 16-05-2019 10:40pm

Just a wild thought, assuming the clampers don't carry angle grinders etc. in their van. If you were clamped and "someone unknown" superglued the lock. How long would it take them to remove the clamp and because it was "someone unknown" and not yourself would they have to refund you.

FishOnABike · 16-05-2019 10:53pm

Just on a matter of principle I would pursue the clamping company for the full amount of the release fee and any costs incurred as a result of their erroneous clamping of your car.

I'd start with a solicitor's letter requesting full payment refunding the clamping fee and (itemising them) all costs incurred as a result (including the cost of the solicitor's letter) and if it is not forthcoming that legal action will be taken seeking same and costs.

Legal costs, should a court action have to be taken, could quickly dwarf the costs to date and the potential of being liable for them might focus the clamping company's mind on cutting their losses and paying up before it costs them more.

highdef · 16-05-2019 11:20pm

The clampers have already stated that it was not the OPs car that was clamped and that the clamp was on a vehicle with a different reg therefore the OP would've been free to do whatever he wanted with the clamp as there was no known owner of it and was most definitely placed illegally on his car, immobilising him.

Victor · 17-05-2019 12:04am

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Does that apply to private clampers?

I was clamped a few years ago by the DDDA late on a Saturday night.

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Totally legal with a Private Clamp.
Totally illegal where a Local Authority is involved.

Realise that the law has changed in the last few years.

highdef wrote: »

The clampers have already stated that it was not the OPs car that was clamped and that the clamp was on a vehicle with a different reg therefore the OP would've been free to do whatever he wanted with the clamp as there was no known owner of it and was most definitely placed illegally on his car, immobilising him.

As mentioned, they take pictures.

highdef · 17-05-2019 12:24am

Victor wrote: »

As mentioned, they take pictures.

As mentioned, the clamping company stated that the car that they clamped was a different car. A photograph will only prove that the car they clamped was the incorrect car. The OPs car was legally parked. The clamping company say they didn't clamp the OPs car therefore photographs of the clamping company's clamp on the OPs car will only make the situation worse for them.

Infini · 17-05-2019 2:20am

Crock Rock wrote: »

The Garda told me it was a civil matter, but he said the minute I touch the clamp it'll be criminal and I'll be in bother.

I believe only if its a council owned clamp its an issue. If the clamp is privately owned u can actually legally remove it so long as you dont damage it by taking off the wheel itself from your car. At that point simply leaving it at the side of the road and drive off.

Tacitus Kilgore · 17-05-2019 9:01am

Next time cut it off and airmail it to their van window :pac:

They don't go after folk who cut them off, too hard to prove who even cut it when the driver says "there was no clamp on my car, dunno what you're talking about, now stop harassing me"

I really hope you take them to task for this,

Just to note that there are battery grinders on special in lidl or aldi next week, cheap enough to keep in the boot for such circumstances

antodeco · 17-05-2019 9:54am

The great thing about private clamps is the guy "DeClamp Man". Ive seen him loads. He wears a hoodie, in place of a cape, and will remove clamps from cars. Their owners never know they were clamped, as DeClamp Man takes it with him. Sometimes, you can even tell them you saw him running down the road a clamp, but you didnt realise it was on your car, you just assumed it was someone else. God bless DeClamp Man removing clamps and holding onto the evidence.

:pac:

Lord Nikon · 17-05-2019 11:34am

In the case where is it a criminal matter for removing/interfering with a clamp, if you can prove that you were clamped illegally, this should nullify the criminality of the clamp removal. If not, then the law favors on the clamping company regardless of the clamping being illegal or legal.

Samuel T. Cogley · 17-05-2019 11:41am

Does the tort of detinue still apply in Ireland? Could the damage the OP suffered as a result be claimed?

Cuddlesworth · 17-05-2019 11:43am

Take them to court.

State the facts, proof of payment, proof of payment of the declamp fee, the time-span to release the clamp(3 hours), the clamping error on their part to begin with and the costs to you(airline fees, booking etc).

If its under 2k, go to the small claims court. You will win, they are in the wrong on multiple counts and they initiated the actions to cost you significant amounts of money.

mgbgt1978 · 17-05-2019 12:20pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

I said the clamper must've mixed up my reg when checking it on the system and thus thought I had not paid. She conceded but said that I still have to pay to have the clamp removed then I can initiate the appeals process and I'll get my money back.

Probably the most important sentence in the OP's post. The Clamping Company admit that they were wrong, but the OP still has to pay a declamping fee. Sounds like extortion.
I am guessing the OP doesn't happen to record all his phone calls ?

Spook_ie · 17-05-2019 12:27pm

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Probably the most important sentence in the OP's post. The Clamping Company admit that they were wrong, but the OP still has to pay a declamping fee. Sounds like extortion.
I am guessing the OP doesn't happen to record all his phone calls ?

Doesn't matter, the clamping controller is required to keep all calls recorded, payment records etc. for several years under the new legislation.

OP should keep a note of his call records though so that he can show times and frequency of when he rang the number.

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 17-05-2019 12:35pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

The Garda told me it was a civil matter, but he said the minute I touch the clamp it'll be criminal and I'll be in bother.

ah, that would be the ole curruption kickin in ,
i think its module 6 on the templemore syllabus

highdef · 17-05-2019 12:40pm

Lord Nikon wrote: »

In the case where is it a criminal matter for removing/interfering with a clamp, if you can prove that you were clamped illegally, this should nullify the criminality of the clamp removal. If not, then the law favors on the clamping company regardless of the clamping being illegal or legal.

As mentioned, the clamping company insisted that they did not clamp the OPs car but they said they clamped a car with a similar reg number therefore if the OP had removed the clamp, there's no comeback from the clamping company as they would have previously stated that they had not clamped the OPs car.

If it went to court and the clamping company confirmed that they said to the OP that they had not clamped his car but they had photos to prove that they had in fact clamped it, it would be thrown out of court as you can't have photographic evidence of the OPs car clamped by the clamping company AND a claim from the clamping company that they did not clamp the OPs car.

realdanbreen · 17-05-2019 12:43pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

I hurried over to a local Garda station and I was told that it was a civil matter and none of their concern.

The guards nowadays are under so much scrutiny that they daren't even suggest doing anything that is not strictly by the book. One time a guard would point you to the nearest place to get an angle grinder( which of course you should have done and take your chances in court)

GM228 · 17-05-2019 1:12pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Does the tort of detinue still apply in Ireland? Could the damage the OP suffered as a result be claimed?

Yes, you can still seek damages for detinue (and conversion).

Clamped unfairly and missed flight as a result .. what recourse to I have?

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