Abbey Creative Quarter Unveiled

Threadhead · 07-10-2013 3:00pm #1

They've unveiled the future plans for the Brewery site and it's apparently being called the Abbey Creative Quarter. Possible creation of 1,000 jobs. Haven't heard much else other than that. Anyone else get the low down on this?

road_high · 07-10-2013 3:42pm

No but there's been snippets on the local papers. Something about an R&D innovation centre with incubation units and also Diageo/Smithwicks developing a large visitors centre like the Guinness Storehouse which would be a boon. I'm going to miss the smell of brewing in Kilkenny, was part of the city.

road_high · 07-10-2013 7:22pm

More info here; looks very impressive if it all comes to pass.

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/new-creative-quarter-for-kilkenny-brewery-site-1-5561882

redtelephone · 07-10-2013 8:16pm

Pictures and maps here:

http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/eng/Publications/Council_News/Brewery%20Site%20Presentation%20Kilkenny.pdf

odin_ie · 07-10-2013 8:58pm

Looks pretty impressive....I wonder will they get funding for it all. Would be pretty cool if they could get some big companies in there too, there are a lot of cloud and tech companies out there who see Ireland as a good location, so who knows.

road_high · 07-10-2013 9:12pm

odin_ie wrote: »

Looks pretty impressive....I wonder will they get funding for it all. Would be pretty cool if they could get some big companies in there too, there are a lot of cloud and tech companies out there who see Ireland as a good location, so who knows.

Seems to be mainly private sector with local authority services. I think Kilkenny is a great location now and should be a reasonably easy sell. Anyone who visits ravesa bout Kilkenny.
Diageo are definitely investing a lot in a new visitor centre so that's one aspect sorted.

linny · 07-10-2013 10:01pm

wont happen without the new road, wont get planning

convex02l · 07-10-2013 10:05pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJtu_fYvwho&feature=youtu.be

road_high · 07-10-2013 10:29pm

linny wrote: »

wont happen without the new road, wont get planning

Hmm i'd take the new road personally. Too big an oppurtunity to pass up. The past is important and needs to eb protected. But we can't live in it either.

Sky King · 07-10-2013 10:47pm

It looks like the project is in good hands based on that video. There seems to be an awful lot of buildings in the new development though. Would more green space not be better? You always have the option to build more if you need to then. Will it be possible to fill all those buildings shown in the models?

One thing I would hate to see is another McDonagh Junction affair with rows of large stone buildings full of nothing which create a general feeling of dispair when you stand near them.

McD J looked good on paper too, and to be fair they did a nice job preserving the old buildings. But the place is a black hole for positive emotions.

catbear · 08-10-2013 4:11am

road_high wrote: »

Hmm i'd take the new road personally. Too big an oppurtunity to pass up. The past is important and needs to eb protected. But we can't live in it either.

That's bull**** and you know it. The CAS is wrong because there's a better alternative.

road_high · 08-10-2013 8:04am

catbear wrote: »

That's bull**** and you know it. The CAS is wrong because there's a better alternative.

...A few old (and very non descript/ugly) houses nobody even knew about or gave one sh1t til now...it's no wonder it's so hard to make any progress in this country.

odin_ie · 08-10-2013 8:08am

One question, what about the second new quarter that was proposed for the mart all those years ago, has that been shelved forever? I think between the brewery and mart areas, there is some real opportunity to make Kilkenny a proper city with some great chances for big business to come in.

I also notice they've marked a skate park in the plans!!!

linny · 08-10-2013 9:07am

road_high wrote: »

...A few old (and very non descript/ugly) houses nobody even knew about or gave one sh1t til now...it's no wonder it's so hard to make any progress in this country.

100% agree with everything you say, old mart site was turned down because of a fear the road network would not handle the traffic it brought, it will be the very same for the brewery site it will sit there for years unless this road is built to service both sites

Threadhead · 08-10-2013 9:21am

Say it's absolutely necessary to have a new entrance to the Brewery Site (which using a bit of common sense, it seems like it is) and say the Vicar Street houses get demolished to create a new entrance for this area, that seems like something that is a necessary development for the city to move forward.

But a bridge that goes across the river and intersects Wolfe Tone Street to serve a site that is lying derelict for 7 years and will most likely to continue to do so? Where is there any logic in that? Especially when a completed ring road would solve that problem.

Anyway, to veer slightly more onto topic. Yes, the brewery site will need another entrance and while it's valid that this can happen from the Vicar Street side of the brewery, integration with the Market Yard and existant riverside is also going to be part of the development.

Rantan · 08-10-2013 9:41am

road_high wrote: »

...A few old (and very non descript/ugly) houses nobody even knew about or gave one sh1t til now...it's no wonder it's so hard to make any progress in this country.

not true...just because you dont give a s**te doenst mean that the rest of the town feels the same -anyway its not just about the houses - theres more to the CAS than just " a few non descript/ugly houses"...it has been discussed in detail why people object...

linny · 08-10-2013 9:46am

Threadhead wrote: »

Say it's absolutely necessary to have a new entrance to the Brewery Site (which using a bit of common sense, it seems like it is) and say the Vicar Street houses get demolished to create a new entrance for this area, that seems like something that is a necessary development for the city to move forward.

But a bridge that goes across the river and intersects Wolfe Tone Street to serve a site that is lying derelict for 7 years and will most likely to continue to do so? Where is there any logic in that? Especially when a completed ring road would solve that problem.

Anyway, to veer slightly more onto topic. Yes, the brewery site will need another entrance and while it's valid that this can happen from the Vicar Street side of the brewery, integration with the Market Yard and existant riverside is also going to be part of the development.

our city needs this bridge, johns bridge and greens bridge are old and just cant take much more aint johns bridge due to close for major re do when we get the new bridge, so make a new entrance from vicar street to the brewery and the what all cars are jammed on the same old road that cant handle the traffic of today, as for the mart site it will sit for another fifty years without a new link, the CAS is not the answer to all our problems but it will help some and complement the ring road when it is finished

road_high · 08-10-2013 9:57am

linny wrote: »

100% agree with everything you say, old mart site was turned down because of a fear the road network would not handle the traffic it brought, it will be the very same for the brewery site it will sit there for years unless this road is built to service both sites

And Kilkenny will allowed to stagnate and the investments will go elsewhere where they will welcome it with open arms.

Threadhead · 08-10-2013 9:59am

Short sighted, short term solution to a long term problem, all the more exacerbated by big money interests, ie. Tesco.

The reason those bridges can't take much more is because they have a stupid amount of trucks driving over them for the past four decades. That doesn't mean we need another bridge that can be banjaxed in four decades to come. The problem is that we need to get trucks and other large vehicles away from the city centre. A ring road is the only solution to this problem. The CAS will still drive heavy duty vehicles into the city centre, the exact reason why most people are against it.

Do we envisage a Kilkenny of the future where the river is covered in knackered bridges just so we can accomodate trucks into the city centre? God forbid that the trucks that have damaged our two city centre bridges would have to drive around the city.

linny · 08-10-2013 10:01am

road_high wrote: »

And Kilkenny will allowed to stagnate and the investments will go elsewhere where they will welcome it with open arms.

but hey we will have 3 lovely house's no one even notice's :mad:

Threadhead · 08-10-2013 10:02am

linny wrote: »

100% agree with everything you say, old mart site was turned down because of a fear the road network would not handle the traffic it brought, it will be the very same for the brewery site it will sit there for years unless this road is built to service both sites

Sorry mate but this is absolute bull, the old mart site was never turned down, it was in development and then the arse fell out of the economy and they put it on the long finger where it still lies.

The road had nothing to do with it. If they had the money and were sure the investment was still valid, that redeveloped site would have been open three years ago.

road_high · 08-10-2013 10:03am

linny wrote: »

but hey we will have 3 lovely house's no one even notice's :mad:

...with some medieval chinmey or something, the tourists will be pouring in

Threadhead · 08-10-2013 10:05am

Also, while another entrance would be ideal for the brewery site this idea that the project will be held over a barrel because of the CAS is also bull. There's already two existant entrances to the brewery (one more suited to pedestrians) and the entire Market Yard side will be opened up too.

Fine, get rid of the houses, build an entrance off Vicar Street, job done. Why do we still need a bridge?

linny · 08-10-2013 10:05am

Threadhead wrote: »

Short sighted, short term solution to a long term problem, all the more exacerbated by big money interests, ie. Tesco.

I don't think Tesco have anything to do with either site banks own the mart site now, and council own brewery, but would be great to see Tesco in mart site, and third level and students in brewery site and new bridge be handy for students to get to Tesco

Threadhead · 08-10-2013 10:09am

Kilkenny needs a Tesco like it needs a new bridge.

linny · 08-10-2013 10:11am

Threadhead wrote: »

Sorry mate but this is absolute bull, the old mart site was never turned down, it was in development and then the arse fell out of the economy and they put it on the long finger where it still lies.

The road had nothing to do with it. If they had the money and were sure the investment was still valid, that redeveloped site would have been open three years ago.

no they were granted permission to remove to old mart buildings and the new development was separate planning app that got refused

sorry but you wrong it was refused because of road network
http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/226853.htm

Threadhead · 08-10-2013 10:15am

Believe me, there was a lot more to that than issues with the road network.

Also, that only underlines the fact that the CAS is being built to serve what is now a derelict site.

linny · 08-10-2013 10:16am

yes and will remain a derelict site without this new bridge

godtabh · 08-10-2013 10:20am

Threadhead wrote: »

Short sighted, short term solution to a long term problem, all the more exacerbated by big money interests, ie. Tesco.

The reason those bridges can't take much more is because they have a stupid amount of trucks driving over them for the past four decades. That doesn't mean we need another bridge that can be banjaxed in four decades to come. The problem is that we need to get trucks and other large vehicles away from the city centre. A ring road is the only solution to this problem. The CAS will still drive heavy duty vehicles into the city centre, the exact reason why most people are against it.

Do we envisage a Kilkenny of the future where the river is covered in knackered bridges just so we can accomodate trucks into the city centre? God forbid that the trucks that have damaged our two city centre bridges would have to drive around the city.

How are Tesco involved in this?

Threadhead · 08-10-2013 10:25am

Tesco wanted to be the anchor supermarket on the site. This would have been the ideal site for their Kilkenny outlet. Previous to that, they had tried to get in to MacDonagh Junction but that slot was given to Dunnes Stores.

godtabh · 08-10-2013 10:29am

From what I've seen in the plans (and I've only seen what was in the Indo) Tesco have no place in the proposals and given that the CoCo own the site are unlikely to be allowed on the site.

Threadhead · 08-10-2013 10:33am

godtabh wrote: »

From what I've seen in the plans (and I've only seen what was in the Indo) Tesco have no place in the proposals and given that the CoCo own the site are unlikely to be allowed on the site.

Yeah, that's certainly the case now but back in 2006 they were actively being courted as anchor tenants. At least it wasn't Dunnes.

odin_ie · 08-10-2013 10:59am

What, the CoCo own the mart site too??

road_high · 08-10-2013 12:19pm

Threadhead wrote: »

Tesco wanted to be the anchor supermarket on the site. This would have been the ideal site for their Kilkenny outlet. Previous to that, they had tried to get in to MacDonagh Junction but that slot was given to Dunnes Stores.

I hear constant rumours that Tesco want to go solo on the mart site. Don't know how true that is though.

Bowlardo · 08-10-2013 4:52pm

The potential of this is absolutely crazy .The worry is will it be done right.
When you look at what they did with the market yard it really is atrocious.
If someone back then had the foresight to have an underground car park and and park /shops/restaurants along the bank of the river instead of a big pile of dog **** of a car park it would have made some difference to the new developement....
I think the bridge has to go ahead now (I was against it)...but it should be done in old stone.
Ring road has to be complete too

road_high · 08-10-2013 10:28pm

Bowlardo wrote: »

The potential of this is absolutely crazy .The worry is will it be done right.
When you look at what they did with the market yard it really is atrocious.
If someone back then had the foresight to have an underground car park and and park /shops/restaurants along the bank of the river instead of a big pile of dog **** of a car park it would have made some difference to the new developement....
I think the bridge has to go ahead now (I was against it)...but it should be done in old stone.
Ring road has to be complete too

Something like this needs infrastructure and access so it's obvious the road is an integral part of the development.

road_high · 08-10-2013 11:35pm

Thank god it's not another shopping centre planed all the same. Dare I ask is there any shopping/leisure/residential aspect planned? There is a lack of high quality apartments to rent in kilkenny.

Threadhead · 08-10-2013 11:54pm

I reckon apartments will definitely be part of it. In fairness, it looks like it's going to be a lovely place to live.

It doesn't seem like they're trying to attract much retail either. With Dunnes so close there probably isn't a huge need for it. Focus seems to be on business and heritage. That being said, I'd imagine it would be quite like the IFSC in Dublin with small shops/cafés dotted about.

catbear · 09-10-2013 4:02am

Who'll pay for theses apartments if demand isn't doesn't cover costs? Another lump of debt for taxpayer I imagine.

I'm in favour of better apartment construction if buyers stump up 20% before construction even starts. The "build it and they will come" bullsh*te has this country with too many empties as is and a bailout to boot.

hi5 · 10-10-2013 10:27am

Where are the 1000 people going to park, and how are they going to get to this parking, drive down the High Street?
Jobs for 1000 people should be confined to outside the city centre,somewhere along the ring road would be best.
The brewery site should be left for tourism, thats where the money is for kilkenny, just leave it as a park beside the river, would cost next to nothing.

The county council should make a deal with Dunnes stores, give them the mart site in exchange for their market yard store, they could then re-develope the complete site from Greens bridge to Johns Bridge, this would do a lot to get rid of traffic congestion in that area.
Dunnes stores could have a much larger store in the Mart site, they could close the McDonagh Junction store allowing someone like Marks and Spencers in.

catbear · 11-10-2013 6:03am

@ hi5

Sky King · 11-10-2013 7:49am

The county council should make a deal with Dunnes stores, give them the mart site in exchange for their market yard store,

Very nice idea - except the Mart is beside McDonagh Junction, where they already have one.

Captain Havoc · 11-10-2013 9:25am

Sky King wrote: »

Very nice idea - except the Mart is beside McDonagh Junction, where they already have one.

He did say, close MacDonagh.

Captain Havoc · 11-10-2013 12:14pm

Anyone who has a problem with modern architecture going into the brewery surely must realise the brewery is not a medieval building. With the new development, we may get to see what medieval buildings are in there.

road_high · 11-10-2013 12:34pm

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Anyone who has a problem with modern architecture going into the brewery surely must realise the brewery is not a medieval building. With the new development, we may get to see what medieval buildings are in there.

Most of it is a monstrosity to be fair. Anything would be an improvement.

up for anything · 12-10-2013 8:47pm

Sky King wrote: »

McD J looked good on paper too, and to be fair they did a nice job preserving the old buildings. But the place is a black hole for positive emotions.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to feel that. From the very first visit I swore that if there was such a thing as reincarnation I must have been an inmate in the poorhouse at one time as I always feel an enveloped in depression when I walk in and around there which disappears as soon as I get out.

linny wrote: »

and new bridge be handy for students to get to Tesco

That's a brilliant reason for a new bridge. :rolleyes:

I can't understand why they didn't wait a bit and put in a pedestrian bridge from the brewery site across the river, rather than where it is being built now. If the students found it a bit tiring to walk round by Green's bridge or John's bridge a special travelator could installed.

I can't remember where I saw it but someone suggested that they attach an enclosed pedestrian bridge to one side of Green's bridge, then take out the current pavement on the bridge to widen the road which would allow two lorries/buses pass each other without having to wait which causes traffic build up.

green jay · 14-10-2013 1:20pm

I would agree with a Vicar St/St. Canice's Pl. entrance to the site but don't see any need for new road or new bridge, it will completely ruin Wolfe Tone St. which is mainly residential. A foot bridge connecting both sides of the river OK

road_high · 03-12-2018 2:26pm

5 years later it shows how slow these things progress!
In any case two good announcements for the Abbey quarter in recent weeks. National Innovation Hub (in conjunction with Carlow IT) to be based there in addition to €6 million funding a few weeks ago;
https://www.facebook.com/146296768437/posts/10158287561183438/

Really positive for Kilkenny and where we need to be headed.

green jay · 03-12-2018 8:29pm

I'm pleased to see it going ahead, the Brewery site was in danger of becoming an eyesore. Hope the work proceeds quickly as promised. BTW, I have just seen my post from five years ago, its being going on that long!. I've changed my mind re: the bridge. It's very handy and also gives a new perspective on the river.

Jesper · 05-12-2018 8:23am

road_high wrote: »

5 years later it shows how slow these things progress!
In any case two good announcements for the Abbey quarter in recent weeks. National Innovation Hub (in conjunction with Carlow IT) to be based there in addition to €6 million funding a few weeks ago;
https://www.facebook.com/146296768437/posts/10158287561183438/

Really positive for Kilkenny and where we need to be headed.

Great news! Hopefully some more self sustaining organisations and small/medium enterprises will also rent space down there. A greenfield space of that size in the middle of the town is a fantastic opportunity to invigorate the city.
Unfortunately though there doesn't seem to be any direction or leadership promoting this space to a wide variety of industry.

Bowlardo · 07-12-2018 1:34pm

I think a bus park where they proposed the car park would be a good idea to raise money and ensure tourist actually get to see kilkenny instead of just the castle.
Can completely understand the concerns that if it went in it would be there for good. I think that probably would be the case.

Abbey Creative Quarter Unveiled

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