Free Ball - McLeod Vs Gilbert

vincenzolorenzo · 28-01-2021 4:21pm #1

Just having a look at the row between McLeod and Gilbert over a free ball situation. Was McLeod right? Assuming he couldn't actually see the left of the ball from where he was without hitting the black first?

Joe_ Public · 28-01-2021 4:45pm

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Just having a look at the row between McLeod and Gilbert over a free ball situation. Was McLeod right? Assuming he couldn't actually see the left of the ball from where he was without hitting the black first?

It was never a free ball in a decade of sundays. Why McLeod kept arguing it i've really no idea, it wasnt even close.

Inviere · 28-01-2021 6:54pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

It was never a free ball in a decade of sundays. Why McLeod kept arguing it i've really no idea, it wasnt even close.

I expected more from him...

tanko · 28-01-2021 7:24pm

The pathetic arrogance of that ref in the Higgins/Thorburn match was something else. Then Higgins saying he didn't hear Thorburn say the Green, clown.

The other incident is never a free ball i would think.

elgriff · 28-01-2021 11:41pm

Funny every single comment on YouTube says it WAS a free ball. I think it is hard to tell from angle of vid, but probably was not.

Joe_ Public · 28-01-2021 11:50pm

For that to be a free ball, you'd basically have to be able to strike the black full ball without hitting the green. And no way you can do that. Also, that angle makes green and black appear closer together than they actually are, greens almost a full ball length closer to the cue ball. Shift cue ball maybe 5-6 inches to the strikers left and you would then be close to fb territory alright.

Bruthal. · 06-04-2021 8:03pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

For that to be a free ball, you'd basically have to be able to strike the black full ball without hitting the green. And no way you can do that. Also, that angle makes green and black appear closer together than they actually are, greens almost a full ball length closer to the cue ball. Shift cue ball maybe 5-6 inches to the strikers left and you would then be close to fb territory alright.

The black can be partly behind the green and still a free ball with the black a fair bit off being possible to hit full ball, maybe 3/4 ball or so, and still be a free ball.

I think it is quite possible that it is a free ball. Need to see it from directly above.

Example here would be a free ball. So it is close in the match. And, the Green is not far off a full ball width closer to the cue ball start position, (where the lines converge).

Bruthal. · 06-04-2021 8:03pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

It was never a free ball in a decade of sundays. Why McLeod kept arguing it i've really no idea, it wasnt even close.

It definitely is close, and imo, McLeod was correct to question it. No way to say from that video angle if it is or not. It needs a direct overhead shot, and even then it might not be clear.

AllForIt · 06-04-2021 8:51pm

Bruthal. wrote: »

The black can be partly behind the green and still a free ball with the black a fair bit off being possible to hit full ball, maybe 3/4 ball or so, and still be a free ball.

Yes of course that is possible but the ref judged that was not the case here.

I think it is quite possible that it is a free ball. Need to see it from directly above.

There is no way to tell from a TV camera shot especially when the front camera was at such an acute angle as it was in this case. And the more you go overhead the distance between the green and black would become more apparent. It does annoy me when snooker is presented in this way as you can't really see the angles especially when reds are close together, as is the case in the current WC qualifiers.

But anyway what I think the ref should have done there, as I think a player has right to dispute a decision (well, I don't know if they actually do), is he should have placed a ball in the disputed area to see if it would fit. Kinda like the way they do with a tool to see if a color ball re-spots when it's very tight. edit: ref did use a guide which I didn't see.

Joe_ Public · 06-04-2021 9:10pm

That's the crucial bit, if you got an overhead shot i think you would see there is more space between green & black than the tv angle suggests, as in green is in fact maybe 1-2 inches closer to white than you think, and therefore clearly no free ball.

And i can agree it's close enough in a ask the referee to check again kind of way but not in a throw hissy fit and stop game for 3 minutes way. It's not THAT close. But it's all opinions at end of day.

Bruthal. · 06-04-2021 9:26pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

That's the crucial bit, if you got an overhead shot i think you would see there is more space between green & black than the tv angle suggests, as in green is in fact maybe 1-2 inches closer to white than you think, and therefore clearly no free ball.

And i can agree it's close enough in a ask the referee to check again kind of way but not in a throw hissy fit and stop game for 3 minutes way. It's not THAT close. But it's all opinions at end of day.

Mcleod seems to line them up with his cue. They look like they are almost a plant into centre pocket. So we are looking at close enough the true distance between green and black. Certainly look close enough to be a free ball. I think Mcleod is correct myself. But it's not certain.

Bruthal. · 06-04-2021 9:52pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

That's the crucial bit, if you got an overhead shot i think you would see there is more space between green & black than the tv angle suggests, as in green is in fact maybe 1-2 inches closer to white than you think, and therefore clearly no free ball.

And i can agree it's close enough in a ask the referee to check again kind of way but not in a throw hissy fit and stop game for 3 minutes way. It's not THAT close. But it's all opinions at end of day.

Mcleod seems to line them up with his cue. They look like they are almost a plant into centre pocket. So we are looking at close enough the true distance between green and black. Certainly look close enough to be a free ball. I think Mcleod is correct myself. But it's not certain.

Joe_ Public · 06-04-2021 11:52pm

Bruthal. wrote: »

Mcleod seems to line them up with his cue. They look like they are almost a plant into centre pocket. So we are looking at close enough the true distance between green and black. Certainly look close enough to be a free ball. I think Mcleod is correct myself. But it's not certain.

If they're a plant into centre, and may well be, then i'd say no free ball without a shadow of a doubt. And i think when referee places the guide ball alongside the green and you see how much room there is for it, it clearly shows the green is at the very least a full ball closer to the white than the black. Which also means almost certainly no fb.

But i mean we're 7 months on from it now so if people don't agree by now, then i imagine they never will!

Holy Diver · 07-04-2021 10:24am

Bruthal. wrote: »

The black can be partly behind the green and still a free ball with the black a fair bit off being possible to hit full ball, maybe 3/4 ball or so, and still be a free ball.

I think it is quite possible that it is a free ball. Need to see it from directly above.

Example here would be a free ball. So it is close in the match. And, the Green is not far off a full ball width closer to the cue ball start position, (where the lines converge).

Def looks like free ball is a possibility to me. The ref should prob have had a look at the angle that Mcloud was talking about.

Joe_ Public · 07-04-2021 2:51pm

Definitely my last post on this ;-)

If you look 30 seconds into below link, you'll see ref does his job perfectly when he introduces the guide red. He moves that red until it is touching the green - maintaining the line of the cue ball - and checks that the red isnt touching the black. Once those two things are ascertained, then he can safely say 100% it cannot be a fb. When cue ball is struck and reaches spot where red is, it will be touching the green but not yet reached the black.

There is simply no need to look or check any other angle and mcleod can argue until cows come home.

https://www.eurosport.co.uk/snooker/english-open/2020-2021/english-open-do-you-think-i-m-cheating-mcleod-and-gilbert-argue-who-was-in-the-right_vid1370091/video.shtml

Holy Diver · 07-04-2021 4:36pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Definitely my last post on this ;-)

If you look 30 seconds into below link, you'll see ref does his job perfectly when he introduces the guide red. He moves that red until it is touching the green - maintaining the line of the cue ball - and checks that the red isnt touching the black. Once those two things are ascertained, then he can safely say 100% it cannot be a fb. When cue ball is struck and reaches spot where red is, it will be touching the green but not yet reached the black.

There is simply no need to look or check any other angle and mcleod can argue until cows come home.

https://www.eurosport.co.uk/snooker/english-open/2020-2021/english-open-do-you-think-i-m-cheating-mcleod-and-gilbert-argue-who-was-in-the-right_vid1370091/video.shtml

That’s fair enough. Didn’t see the bit with the guide red in first link!

Free Ball - McLeod Vs Gilbert

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