Death Stranding

Grumpypants · 01-11-2019 7:08pm

It's not boring. It just doesn't blast you with non stop action and gives you time to explore. This gives the scary /action parts much more impact.

I love just wandering and having a break from it all.

Much like days gone players will love it as they aren't on a timeline to play it like reviewers are.

But it isn't for everyone. But it is original and ground breaking.

Robert ninja · 01-11-2019 7:11pm

Yong's review which I found decent. Might be refreshing to anyone frustrated with journos being gunk at reviews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPTs4uW-zO0

Y'know I thought I'd hate it but it looks like something I could actually enjoy. That said I don't feel it's worth a full-price purchase so I'm definitely going to be waiting for PC release and some cheaper digital retailers.

Retr0gamer · 01-11-2019 7:12pm

To counteract the 'boring' quote, Silent Hill 2 isn't a fun game to play. Also happens to be one of the greatest games ever made and a masterpiece of storytelling.

As for glorious mess, plenty of games fit that bill that are well regarded and loved. Fallout New Vegas, Nier and Nier Automata, Final Fantasy 7, Pathologic, Planescape Torment etc. Inventive games with a hodge podge of ideas that don't always work but you appreciate how inventive they are and are greater than the sum of their parts.

Robert ninja · 01-11-2019 7:23pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Silent Hill 2 isn't a fun game to play.

But it's also not boring. I guess 'entertaining' is better description for general positive experience of media. You can be scared, disturbed, intrigued, mystified and even confused with a piece of media, it can still be entertaining and you feel a retroactive positive experience of the game even if it was terrifying in certain moments. A game being boring would mean if SH2 couldn't even scare you, make you interested in any of the story or be impressed at the level design/graphics (they were incredible at the time for a console).

From what I can tell media outlets just find the concept boring and can't seem to get past it. But we know they don't even like games and are totally shyte at them so who cares what they say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1humObzdVA

Grumpypants · 01-11-2019 7:35pm

Robert ninja wrote: »

Yong's review which I found decent. Might be refreshing to anyone frustrated with journos being gunk at reviews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPTs4uW-zO0

Y'know I thought I'd hate it but it looks like something I could actually enjoy. That said I don't feel it's worth a full-price purchase so I'm definitely going to be waiting for PC release and some cheaper digital retailers.

He did actually play it at least, i found his ladder and a few other bits that helped me out.

Zero-Cool · 01-11-2019 8:27pm

https://twitter.com/corybarlog/status/1190305463797071872?s=19

Rob2D · 02-11-2019 12:15am

quokula wrote: »

I'm not going to second guess reviewers who have played the game when I haven't.

However, that seems really unprofessional from Edge. They expect people to pay money to read their magazine, yet they won't review a major game because they can't be bothered to play through it? I get that he doesn't like it, but I don't like parts of my job and I don't just not do them and have a moan on twitter.

That is unbelieveable. Love it or hate it, it's arguably the biggest game of the year. And they just can't be arsed?

And he's the boss too. I shudder to think what the rest of the place is like.

noodler · 02-11-2019 12:24am

I'm a little disappointed with the reviews (even though they seem generally positive).

It does sound like a slog for first half at least.

However, I am utterly intrigued tbh.

I have alot of patience, Retro made an excellent point about silent hill 2.

There are alot of games I didn't enjoy in the addictive, can't put this down, kind of a way bit that I persevered with. Typically this resulted in a pretty big pay off and a memorable experience.

Add to SH2, Everyone's gone to the rapture, Rime and even the likes of ICO/SOTV/Last guardian.

That being said, I probably will have to wait for a Xmas holiday or something to really try this. An evening after work in winter might be a tough sell.

Potential-Monke · 02-11-2019 12:30am

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Cory Barlog tweet

I'm delighted that he's behind this idea of creating something unique and off the beaten path, but I've far more faith in Barlog to do something right, not so much with Kojima. Actually, I really don't know where the love for Kojima is coming from. Yeah, the MGS series was pretty damn good, 2 and 3 being standouts for me, but he loves to include long boring crap conversations that you just want to skip. Ruined 4 for me, which would have been brilliant otherwise.

Rob2D wrote: »

That is unbelieveable. Love it or hate it, it's arguably the biggest game of the year. And they just can't be arsed?

And he's the boss too. I shudder to think what the rest of the place is like.

I read it more like, they didn't want us to give a review before it's finished, but it's so boring that we didn't finish it in time for next print. I'm sure the review will be there in the following edition.

I'm gonna echo some others here, gonna wait for more player reviews and most likely pick it up in a sale, or if player reviews are crap i'll wait for it to be on PS+.

noodler · 02-11-2019 1:09am

Grumpypants wrote: »

He did actually play it at least, i found his ladder and a few other bits that helped me out.

What you giving it?
7/8/9?

biggebruv · 02-11-2019 1:35am

Been watching proper gameplay footage tonight and more reviews I just don’t think I will buy this at all now definitely not for me had no idea this was like 60% about delivering boxes

Grumpypants · 02-11-2019 1:52am

noodler wrote: »

What you giving it?
7/8/9?

I don't give scores but it is a game you need to play because it has just changed gaming and you need to understand why.

B.A._Baracus · 02-11-2019 1:55am

Grumpypants wrote: »

I don't give scores but it is a game you need to play because it has just changed gaming and you need to understand why.

How you get an early copy?

Potential-Monke · 02-11-2019 2:18am

Grumpypants wrote: »

I don't give scores but it is a game you need to play because it has just changed gaming and you need to understand why.

See, someone said something vaguely similar to me about Journey and some other artsy type games, and I hated them all. Seems like this will be similar to me, lost on me if you will. Hate hidden meaning type games!

biggebruv · 02-11-2019 9:32am

Grumpypants wrote: »

I don't give scores but it is a game you need to play because it has just changed gaming and you need to understand why.

I think your overblowing it abit with that sorta talk

Doom
Super mario 64
Tomb raider
Resident evil 1
Metal gear solid
Resident evil 4

These games changed gaming by bringing in completely new ways to how we look and actually play games

Death stranding looks like the same open world repetitive stuff we’ve been getting for the past decade

Mission received - go traverse the map to location - do mission - repeat
Except from what it looks like traveling the map with your cargo is the mission

I’m not saying it’s a bad game but I’m not paying 60euros for it next Friday

02-11-2019 10:19am

If 40 hours in and the game still hasn' introduced some meaningful, fun / innovative gaming mechanic I cannot blame Edge magazine for not finishing it

You don't need to spunk 70+ hours when when the first 40 are ****e anyway

That Danny O Dywer review is such hipster nonsense, like the game is some higher power while actively admitting the game is boring

quokula · 02-11-2019 12:55pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I'm delighted that he's behind this idea of creating something unique and off the beaten path, but I've far more faith in Barlog to do something right, not so much with Kojima. Actually, I really don't know where the love for Kojima is coming from. Yeah, the MGS series was pretty damn good, 2 and 3 being standouts for me, but he loves to include long boring crap conversations that you just want to skip. Ruined 4 for me, which would have been brilliant otherwise.

I read it more like, they didn't want us to give a review before it's finished, but it's so boring that we didn't finish it in time for next print. I'm sure the review will be there in the following edition.

I'm gonna echo some others here, gonna wait for more player reviews and most likely pick it up in a sale, or if player reviews are crap i'll wait for it to be on PS+.

He made a point of saying they ran out of enthusiasm and not out of time. And in a follow up tweet said they wouldn’t review it the following month either.

I guess drumming up twitter controversy probably sells more magazines than actually doing what you’d expect them to do and review the game.

Retr0gamer · 02-11-2019 3:36pm

In fairness to them they can't review it without finishing it so stuck between a rock and a hard place. They are doing a 40 hour write up on the game which is prettyuch a review so don't see any controversy.

USgamer said it's like a game from the PS2 era when you got unconventional games that didn't stick to genre norms. They might not have been entirely successful but they were fascinating and interesting.

Jerichoholic · 02-11-2019 3:39pm

So it's...

"You are over encumbered"

For 70 hours?

Mr.Nice Guy · 02-11-2019 8:49pm

Doesn't sound like my thing.

Surely more rewarding to do a lot of walking around and getting messages in real life rather than in a game, not to mention better for your health.

Wish Kojima had remained with Konami and I could have got my dream of a Liquid Snake-led Metal Gear game set before the events of Shadow Moses. Ah well.

BeerWolf · 02-11-2019 9:11pm

All the trailers and I am still confused wth the story's about...

nullzero · 02-11-2019 11:15pm

I've been lukewarm on this since the first trailer.

Having been a massive Metal Gear fan I always felt that the messianic worship of Kojima could eventually end in a situation like what Death Stranding seems to represent.

This time four years ago we were all playing our way through The Phantom Pain, a game with such incredible open ended gameplay set in an open world (that didn't really need to be an open world) with a narrative that didn't really mean anything that eventually looped back to the first game and had an important chapter left out of the game altogether.

Now Kojimas new game, his first without his abusive paymasters in Konami, seems to be an ill judged affair that seems to be posturing itself as something so avant garde that it doesn't need to be engaging as a game.

Maybe I'm wrong and I'll play this game and feel differently, but the thought of plodding around carrying boxes for over 70 hours just doesn't appeal to me. My time as a gamer is something I have much less of as an adult with responsibilities, and as a result I'd like something to keep me engaged with a product I'll be spending my hard earned money on. Death Stranding was something I was looking forward to albeit quietly, and my reservations would seem to have been well placed.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with a convoluted narrative, the lack of which in The Phantom Pain left me a little disappointed, but at least TPP allowed for fun to be had in the game world. In fact all the MGS games allowed for fun and experimentation, those games were so throughly play tested the control systems and gameplay mechanics just cried out to be played with, particularly on subsequent playthroughs.
With Death Stranding I'm struggling to see where the replay value will be.

The notion that this is some fork in the road for games to become in someway radically different just isn't something I can see happening.
Arguably Kojima already brought gaming to that fork in the road with MGS2, the industry and more to the point the public didn't care to follow the route that games narrative prescribed.

The most likely outcome will be Kojima being sat down by his new bosses at Sony and being given a friendly reminder that they expect something at least approaching a product that attempts to appeal to a large number of gamers. Whatever creative freedom they've allowed him on this project may well be changed if he continues to work for them after this.

A walking simulator that offers little in its game mechanics other than the ability to frustrate the player (again I may be way off the mark here but it would seem to be what reviewers are saying) and an avant garde narritve isn't guaranteed to get them a reasonable return on their investment in him.

Sadly it would seem that Death Stranding will be by Kojimas standards a flop. What he does from here should be interesting.

02-11-2019 11:25pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

In fairness to them they can't review it without finishing it so stuck between a rock and a hard place. They are doing a 40 hour write up on the game which is prettyuch a review so don't see any controversy.

USgamer said it's like a game from the PS2 era when you got unconventional games that didn't stick to genre norms. They might not have been entirely successful but they were fascinating and interesting.

The game is called God Hand and the difference being is it had actual brilliant game mechanics that were misunderstood by a **** gamer.

Not walking around like a prick for 70 hours :P

TitianGerm · 02-11-2019 11:49pm

BeerWolf wrote: »

All the trailers and I am still confused wth the story's about...

Delivroo simulator.

J. Marston · 03-11-2019 4:19am

I'm a simple pleb and can't appreciate Kojima's art...

skerry · 03-11-2019 9:26am

J. Marston wrote: »

I'm a simple pleb and can't appreciate Kojima's art...

Seen that in a few reviews and was thinking what the f#$k. Wonder what the deep hidden meaning is, cos if EA or 2K did the same we'd never hear the end of it.

Optimalprimerib · 03-11-2019 9:33am

Sounds like the Terrance mallick of video games. I was never a fan of kojima so that €60 will be spent elsewhere.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 03-11-2019 10:28am

Think I'll be waiting until it ends up on PS Plus.

Have watched the IGN and GameSpot video reviews. Even GameSpot's 9 review doesn't even make me remotely interested in playing it.

A hiking slash courier simulator with Facebook likes.

noodler · 03-11-2019 1:38pm

I think it'll be two years before it's on ps+ tbh!

goon_magee · 03-11-2019 4:11pm

Grumpypants wrote: »

It's not boring. It just doesn't blast you with non stop action and gives you time to explore. This gives the scary /action parts much more impact.

I love just wandering and having a break from it all.

Much like days gone players will love it as they aren't on a timeline to play it like reviewers are.

But it isn't for everyone. But it is original and ground breaking.

Again with the "reviewers can't appreciate something the same because they are working to a deadline excuse"...How do you explain the many games that come out requiring large time investments that get glowing reviews all round? Breath of the Wild, Metal Gear 5, Skyrim, Baldurs Gate, Persona 5; I could name more, but you see what I mean. I think it might have actually been you used the same excuse in defence of Ghost Recon Breakpoint, and the general player base crapped on that game way harder than the majority of review outlets working to these deadlines you seem to think affect a critics ability to judge a game fairly.

Review copies have been in the wild for around 3 weeks now, plenty of scope there for a reviewer to take their time with the game if you ask me. Personally I can't wait to play DS, it looks amazing and like something genuinely fresh in a sea of stagnant AAA mediocrity. But at the same time the majority of less than favourable reviews I have read all sound like valid critiques, and don't suggest at all that people's issues stemmed from not having enough time to play the game naturally.

Kojima's polarising style is what is splitting opinions here, not lack of time to play it properly.

biggebruv · 03-11-2019 5:04pm

I was laughing at the polygon review

First 10 hours are a slog they say
Then the last 10 hours are another slog/boring lol so that’s 20 hours of game time that’s dull and work like

Would have been interesting to see what score they would have tagged onto that review if they did scores

goon_magee · 04-11-2019 2:41pm

It's the strangest batch of reviews I have ever encountered. Most of them have sounded quite negative, only to go on and slap an 8 or 9 at the end. The IGN one is the only major review outlet I feel awarded a score that felt reflective of the actual sentiments and opinions expressed in the review.

I'm still massively excited for the game, have even booked a few days off to get stuck in, but with some of these scores there is more than a whiff of "we didn't like it but it dares to be different so it deserves a positive score for that alone".

B.A._Baracus · 04-11-2019 2:53pm

goon_magee wrote: »

It's the strangest batch of reviews I have ever encountered. Most of them have sounded quite negative, only to go on and slap an 8 or 9 at the end. The IGN one is the only major review outlet I feel awarded a score that felt reflective of the actual sentiments and opinions expressed in the review.

I'm still massively excited for the game, have even booked a few days off to get stuck in, but with some of these scores there is more than a whiff of "we didn't like it but it dares to be different so it deserves a positive score for that alone".

I'd say most bigger sites are a bit afraid to award it a really low score. Don't bite the hand that feeds you etc. This is Sony and not some small indy studio.

On that subject I laugh when people say "paid reviews" :pac: Nah, it's just if the business is talking about video games then you have to be biased.

gimli2112 · 04-11-2019 2:58pm

the line I see a lot of is "the game is not for everyone" which I interpret as being "it's not for me".

04-11-2019 3:00pm

As just one example it was the same for Danny O Dywers review for Fallout 76
He made a full length documentary on Fallout 76 before it's release and and was allowed by the publisher Bethesda to speak to the DEVS
Then his review danced around the fact the game is utter garbage and one of the most buggiest releases of this generation

He's in no position to be objective and honest in this case as he's already in bed with the publishers / DEVS

His company is not in a position to be rubbing up publishers & DEVS the wrong way

*Edit* Been trying to find that review and looks like he removed it, will see if I can dig out the tweets

ERG89 · 04-11-2019 3:04pm

biggebruv wrote: »

I was laughing at the polygon review

First 10 hours are a slog they say
Then the last 10 hours are another slog/boring lol so that’s 20 hours of game time that’s dull and work like

Would have been interesting to see what score they would have tagged onto that review if they did scores

I hope more reviews of open world games in going forward will feature the word slog as it's an issue far more prominent now than it was 10 years ago

RasTa · 04-11-2019 3:23pm

"President Trump right now is building a wall," Kojima tells us.

"Then you have Brexit, where the UK is trying to leave the EU, and it feels like there are lots of walls and people thinking only about themselves in the world.

"In Death Stranding we're using bridges to represent connection - there are options to use them or break them. It's about making people think about the meaning of connection."

Kojima is keen to stress that his game's message is not targeted at any one country or community: bringing people back together is a universal theme in his eyes.

"When we're connected we have a responsibility over each other. But social media doesn't seem to have that responsibility, for example.

"Caring for each other is what makes people feel good. We've always been like that in the past.

"I want people to remember that and feel it in my game."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-50172917

gizmo · 04-11-2019 3:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As just one example it was the same for Danny O Dywers review for Fallout 76
He made a full length documentary on Fallout 76 before it's release and and was allowed by the publisher Bethesda to speak to the DEVS
Then his review danced around the fact the game is utter garbage and one of the most buggiest releases of this generation

He's in no position to be objective and honest in this case as he's already in bed with the publishers / DEVS

His company is not in a position to be rubbing up publishers & DEVS the wrong way

*Edit* Been trying to find that review and looks like he removed it, will see if I can dig out the tweets

Do you mean this video where he does a review of 4-6hrs of play from the Beta?

04-11-2019 3:51pm

gizmo wrote: »

Do you mean this video where he does a review of 4-6hrs of play from the Beta?

No that's not it

Dohnjoe · 04-11-2019 4:16pm

RasTa wrote: »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-50172917

Just read it, I thought this was the most interesting part - defining why he made the game the way he did

Kojima is keen to stress that his game's message is not targeted at any one country or community: bringing people back together is a universal theme in his eyes.

"When we're connected we have a responsibility over each other. But social media doesn't seem to have that responsibility, for example.

"Caring for each other is what makes people feel good. We've always been like that in the past.

"I want people to remember that and feel it in my game."

Kojima says that he's "very prone to loneliness" and thinks there are "similar people all around the world, especially gamers".

"So when those people play this game they realise people like them exist all over the world. Knowing that even though I'm lonely, there are other people like me makes them feel at ease. That's what I would like for them to feel when playing the game."

Stone Deaf 4evr · 04-11-2019 4:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As just one example it was the same for Danny O Dywers review for Fallout 76
He made a full length documentary on Fallout 76 before it's release and and was allowed by the publisher Bethesda to speak to the DEVS
Then his review danced around the fact the game is utter garbage and one of the most buggiest releases of this generation

He's in no position to be objective and honest in this case as he's already in bed with the publishers / DEVS

His company is not in a position to be rubbing up publishers & DEVS the wrong way

*Edit* Been trying to find that review and looks like he removed it, will see if I can dig out the tweets

That whole documentary seemed like a big misstep to me at the time, he went from a scrappy underdog making vids on projects he liked such as witcher 3 and Rocket League, and next thing he was getting behind the scenes access to Fallout 76.
If he was a regular youtuber, I'd have put it down to being Naive, but he's been involved in games journalism for long enough that he should have known how it was going to be perceived. I wonder if he regrets it now? he's a likable enough guy and i guess we'll never know if money exchanged hands or not, or if bethesda simply saw him as another 'influencer' to be exploited, but it definitely altered my perception of him anyway.

04-11-2019 4:27pm

Just a side note: I actually like some of his content. The Half-Life documentary as one example is brilliant.

Stone Deaf 4evr · 04-11-2019 4:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just a side note: I actually like some of his content. The Half-Life documentary as one example is brilliant.

yeah, I do too, I actually think its a very important thing hes doing for the most part, its very rare to get to see or hear exactly what goes into games. - for example, I dont like warframe, but his doc on how the studio turned it around is amazing.

Id love to see candid interviews with Konami / Kojima on the real story behind MGSV, it might certainly colour the story more in terms of whether hes a visionary artist, or a mad lad who has crazy ideas, but needs a firm hand from management to keep him on track.

as an aside, if you like reading, check out Jason Schriers 'Blood sweat and pixels' - goes behind the scenes on a number of different games, with varying degrees of production difficulty.

04-11-2019 4:57pm

biggebruv · 04-11-2019 8:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As just one example it was the same for Danny O Dywers review for Fallout 76
He made a full length documentary on Fallout 76 before it's release and and was allowed by the publisher Bethesda to speak to the DEVS
Then his review danced around the fact the game is utter garbage and one of the most buggiest releases of this generation

He's in no position to be objective and honest in this case as he's already in bed with the publishers / DEVS

His company is not in a position to be rubbing up publishers & DEVS the wrong way

*Edit* Been trying to find that review and looks like he removed it, will see if I can dig out the tweets

If you find the original review can you post would like to see that lol what a disaster that game was

Grumpypants · 04-11-2019 10:08pm

The point the video above misses, is that a game can be "boring" and great at the same time.

I've put god knows how many hours into Football manager, Factorio, Fallout 3, and Sim City and other similar games. They are "boring games", I'm okay with that, i like a "boring" game to relax and play. I can see why someone wouldn't enjoy it, but you would be hard pressed to say they are bad.

I do wonder if some if those that are saying its a slog are doing the totally unnecessary side missions and not much exploring. The rambling is always amazing.

I just watched Yong yea's review pretty on the money.

https://youtu.be/OPTs4uW-zO0

noodler · 04-11-2019 10:19pm

I already know I'm going to persevere when I play this.

Probably not til a discount tho.

awec · 04-11-2019 10:30pm

gimli2112 wrote: »

the line I see a lot of is "the game is not for everyone" which I interpret as being "it's not for me".

"The game is not for everyone" basically means "most people will think it's shit".

ahnowbrowncow · 05-11-2019 12:05am

Grumpypants wrote: »

The point the video above misses, is that a game can be "boring" and great at the same time.

I've put god knows how many hours into Football manager, Factorio, Fallout 3, and Sim City and other similar games. They are "boring games", I'm okay with that, i like a "boring" game to relax and play. I can see why someone wouldn't enjoy it, but you would be hard pressed to say they are bad.

I do wonder if some if those that are saying its a slog are doing the totally unnecessary side missions and not much exploring. The rambling is always amazing.

I just watched Yong yea's review pretty on the money.

https://youtu.be/OPTs4uW-zO0

I wouldn't call any of those games you mentioned boring though. I think you're conflating slower paced, more tactical games with boring games. Death Stranding certainly appears to be the latter.

johnny_ultimate · 05-11-2019 12:36am

It's good and healthy that some games are 'not for everyone'. Hell, it's good and healthy if a game is 'not for pretty much everyone'. Whether that's an arthouse oddity or insanely specific + detailed simulator, there are many great games that aim solely for a particular audience. I'm always fascinated when developers try that on a large scale.

I have no idea how Death Stranding will work for me - I've heard things about it that I'm extremely excited about, and I've heard things I'm deeply apprehensive about. I think Kojima games tend to be a mix of outrageously awful and genuinely genius, with some coming down on one or the other side. Even if I ultimately hate this one, I'm actually glad there's a AAA game that's so divisive because we get so few of them. 90% of them these days are so focus-grouped and smoothed down to avoid anything resembling divisiveness that they become an interminable mush in my eyes. I wish there were more games on this scale that invited everything from passionate defences to furious takedowns.

As for 'boring'? Well, I'm definitely of the belief that games can be boring and frustrating in interesting ways. Pathologic 2 is a game I find immensely tedious and infuriating, but it's such a particular, unusual vision that it needs to feel like that to achieve what it's trying to do. Whereas I find RDR2 tedious and infuriating in a deeply unsatisfying way, because I don't think what emerges from that frustration and boredom is enough to justify it. I'm sure other people have different perspectives and tolerances when it comes to that - but I think that feeds back into the point I made above :P

Anyway, I look forward to discovering how tolerable the boredom of Death Stranding is for myself in a few days.

Death Stranding

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