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Announcing why someone has left a job

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  • 14-11-2019 2:16pm
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    Hello all,

    Supposing someone leaves a job, for any reason, resignation or dismissal etc. Is the company management entitled to inform the entire workforce of the circumstances of why you're no longer in the job.

    For example, let's say there is a company-wide meeting every Monday, and a manager says "Jimmy is no longer with us, we let him go because his performance wasn't up to scratch" or "Jimmy resigned and he's now working for company x".

    My limited understanding of privacy laws would indicate that management is well entitled to say you are no longer with the company, but they cannot share the circumstances of why you're no longer with the company unless you agree as that is is personal and private information the only you and company management/HR need to know.

    Am I correct in my thinking?


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    #2
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    They really shouldn't say why, but they might if there are a lot of rumours swirling around.


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    #3
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,069 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    why OP? ............were you caught **** in the toilets, again?


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    #4
    Rikand
    Registered Users Posts: 20,340 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Reads to me like you have a case for defamation of character


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    #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Rikand wrote: »
    Reads to me like you have a case for defamation of character

    How in the world have you come to that conclusion with absolutely zero from the OP to indicate that anything defamatory has occurred?


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    #6
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    The reason would be kept secret more often than not. I know of one person who left due to serious illness and the company sent a mail around, wishing him well on his journey. HR checked with him before they sent that mail.

    Reasons for one off redundancies or sackings are generally kept quiet.
    fryup wrote: »
    why OP? ............were you caught **** in the toilets, again?

    Seriously?


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    #7
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,989 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Rikand wrote: »
    Reads to me like you have a case for defamation of character

    Reads to me that you should start by understand what defamation is!


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    #8
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Mostly they just say X has left. I have been told at times where people have been let go. TBH the OP is very, very vague. If they are in this boat just find another job and move on. No real good comes in fretting about what might or might not have happened.


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    #9
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,475 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Rikand wrote: »
    Reads to me like you have a case for defamation of character

    Only if it’s not true.


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    #10
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Spill, what did you do.


    Simple really they may not come out and say but management talk to each other and it will most likely filter down and most will end up hearing it.

    In my work this is how it would get around but nobody would be shouting it out especially at management level.


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    #11
    Twister2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭Twister2


    "Jimmy is no longer with us, we let him go because his performance wasn't up to scratch
    "

    Sounds like something from glengarry glen ross


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    #12
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    I'm not expert on this, but my instinct is telling me a company is entitled to say why you left.

    It's not like they're sharing your PPS number or something like that.


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    #13
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,674 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    The reason for leaving is not personally identifying information, so I don't believe it is legally restricted.

    Lying outright in a negative way would be an issue eg saying "NoLongerWithUs has left because he's sick", when he was really fired 'cos he was caught stealing stock.

    Lying outright in a positive way probably is allowed eg "NoLongerWithUs has left because he got a better job". But on the other hand, it's denying people factual information about the required performance standards: if even the dogs in the street know that NoLongerWithUs was doing dodgy stuff with the time-clock, then a polite lie could give the impression that this behaviour is OK.

    And if there are difficult circumstances eg NoLongerWithUs died in a car crash last night ... it may better to officially announce rather than let rumours fly.


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    #14
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,807 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    If someone leaves on good terms there will be cake, a piss up and goodbye...

    In my last job someone was fired and at the end of the weekly meeting... “Gavin Doherty is no longer employed with us and the process to replace him has already begun”... turns out Gavin was clocking in retrospectively after arriving late...


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    #15
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,069 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    Strumms wrote: »
    turns out Gavin was clocking in retrospectively after arriving late...

    and how did he manage that?:confused:


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    #16
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,807 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    fryup wrote: »
    and how did he manage that?:confused:

    He had a password to the master system that enabled him to enter, amend or delete the electronic clock ins... supposed to only be given to managers and team leaders but when we were without a team leader he was unofficially ‘acting’ and acting the bollocks..


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    #17
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭skallywag


    It very much depends on the circumstances in my own experience.

    90%+ of the time when someone is leaving it is their own choice and most are sorry to see them go. It would be typical that then an email will be sent around thanking them and wishing them all the best, with a tone of regret that the person has decided to move on. The person in question would generally not be consulted beforehand.

    In the case that there are private reasons involved (e.g. health, marriage break-up, etc.) then the person leaving would certainly be asked how they wish to play it, e.g. whether they want to have some class of official acknowledgment of their leaving, or whether they would rather fade into the night from one day to the next. Up to them.

    In the case that someone has been sacked (and I mean immediately terminated, as opposed to being made redundant) then the norm would be to bring those who worked with this person together at the earliest possible opportunity, inform them that X has been fired, explain why it has happened (most sackings are not the thing of Hollywood movies but are for clearly justifiable reasons) and take questions on the same.


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    #18
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,674 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Strumms wrote: »
    He had a password to the master system that enabled him to enter, amend or delete the electronic clock ins... supposed to only be given to managers and team leaders but when we were without a team leader he was unofficially ‘acting’ and acting the bollocks..

    So that's a case where I believe factual information should be provided:

    1 it stops the rumour mill

    2 it gives a clear education to colleagues about what behaviour is unacceptable.


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    #19
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭skallywag


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    So that's a case where I believe factual information should be provided...

    I think that factual information should be provided ASAP when someone is fired, unless there is a very good reason for not doing so.


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    #20
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    So here's why I am asking.

    The company I am with, I start up, let's go of probationary staff fairly ruthlessly. You have two months to prove yourself otherwise your little and the MD will a nights in detail at the Monday company meeting why they let you go.

    But if you resign against the wishes of the company they will also bad mouth you at this meeting. A senior member of the customer support team left after having been convinced to stay three or four times in the previous year.

    They bad mouthed her pretty horrifically. The gist of the MD's complaints was that she couldn't hack it there ,despite the fact that she has saved the company on several occasions, and that being rid of her was the best thing that could happen to the company. There was also mention of the fact that she might be going through the menopause, yes it was that horrific.

    I want to leave the company, I'm finding it very stressful there, but they need me more than I need them.

    I want to hand in a simple resignation letter with a message stating they are entitled to say I have left the company but they must not go into any reasons why or offer any explanation or opinion.

    I'm just wondering if if I am entitled to do that.


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    #21
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,069 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    Strumms wrote: »
    He had a password to the master system that enabled him to enter, amend or delete the electronic clock ins... supposed to only be given to managers and team leaders but when we were without a team leader he was unofficially ‘acting’ and acting the bollocks..

    God be with the days when you just simply punched in & out with a card :cool:


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    #22
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,247 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Lying outright in a positive way probably is allowed eg "NoLongerWithUs has left because he got a better job". But on the other hand, it's denying people factual information about the required performance standards: if even the dogs in the street know that NoLongerWithUs was doing dodgy stuff with the time-clock, then a polite lie could give the impression that this behaviour is OK.
    Then there should be a separate conversation, not linked to the recently departed about such behaviour.
    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    And if there are difficult circumstances eg NoLongerWithUs died in a car crash last night ... it may better to officially announce rather than let rumours fly.
    People who have died have fewer protections regarding privacy and data protection than the living. It would be perfectly acceptable to let people know a colleague has died.


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    #23
    Buzzy3695
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Buzzy3695


    Not the whole place but people who need to know


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    #24
    Tiddlypeeps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭Tiddlypeeps


    NoLongerWithUs wrote: »
    So here's why I am asking.

    The company I am with, I start up, let's go of probationary staff fairly ruthlessly. You have two months to prove yourself otherwise your little and the MD will a nights in detail at the Monday company meeting why they let you go.

    But if you resign against the wishes of the company they will also bad mouth you at this meeting. A senior member of the customer support team left after having been convinced to stay three or four times in the previous year.

    They bad mouthed her pretty horrifically. The gist of the MD's complaints was that she couldn't hack it there ,despite the fact that she has saved the company on several occasions, and that being rid of her was the best thing that could happen to the company. There was also mention of the fact that she might be going through the menopause, yes it was that horrific.

    I want to leave the company, I'm finding it very stressful there, but they need me more than I need them.

    I want to hand in a simple resignation letter with a message stating they are entitled to say I have left the company but they must not go into any reasons why or offer any explanation or opinion.

    I'm just wondering if if I am entitled to do that.


    Jesus, that sounds like several lawsuits waiting to happen :eek:


    Most companies will play it safe and not announce why someone has left, not because they aren't allowed to but because it's very easy to step over the line into defamation, especially if you are in a small industry. Kind of the same reason a lot of companies won't give references, it's just safer to not risk stepping over the line.


    It sounds like they very much stepped over the line with the woman who left.


    With regards to your resignation, you can ask them not to announce anything but they are under no obligation to agree. From the sounds of it they seem the type that a request like that would just encourage them to be more harsh when announcing your departure. If you can pursue them legally for announcing the reasons for your departure completely depends on what is said, how it is said and any damage it causes to you.


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    #25
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    NoLongerWithUs wrote: »
    I want to hand in a simple resignation letter with a message stating they are entitled to say I have left the company but they must not go into any reasons why or offer any explanation or opinion.
    What a few people have done in past companies that I've worked in, was to send their own email out to the team, and a few others that they know in the company, saying how great it was working with them, and that you're leaving. Can't see why you can't do something similar, and BCC yourself.


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    #26
    seagull
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭seagull


    You can always send a mail round saying that you decided to sack your manager because they were annoying and piss-poor, and so have taken up employment elsewhere.


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