Gold Cup 2019

EICVD · 10-03-2019 8:18pm

Charlie George wrote: »

Wtf, rtr would have beat Bellshill handy if his jumping was better, if meade thinks Bellshill wins the gc why isn't rtr running in it as well, makes no sense, only the muppet brothers want to win there own race.
Shocking.

Imagine a sponsor wanting to win their own race, disgusting behavior........

WicklowBrave · 10-03-2019 8:46pm

Presenting Percy is a good thing. Stays and has the class.

He won the RSA with any amount in hand. He has last year's novices covered. Al Boum Photo would be the only one to fear but his jumping is dodgy and he has a bit to find.

Clan des Obeaux - head in the air, swishes the tail. Better right handed, not crying out for the extra two and a half furlongs. Not sure he's improved as much as it seems, even from the Betfair Chase.

Native River - he'll be a hard horse to pass but PP stays just as well and is a lot classier than NR. Think I read on here that NR wouldn't get within 10 lengths of Limini and Bapaume in a hurdle race, spot on.

Might Bite - in his RSA form he'd hack up but looks like he's had enough of it.

Bellshill - his Irish Nash run was a serious performance and he is one with a chance but he'll need to find improvement. He's a 9yo chaser trained by WPM so he's probably already reached his peak at this stage.

Thistlecrack - f***ing no chance

Bristol de Mai - going under the radar here and he comes here fresh which might be the key and I can see him running a big race.

Anibale Fly - ran a tidy race last year and he ran a blinder in the National.

This whole agument against PP based on him not running over fences this season is nonsense. Doesn't make a blind bit of difference imho. Horses have won Grand Nationals off no runs over fences that season. It's not an issue at all imo. Could be spectacularly wrong but just how I feel about it.

IAMAMORON · 10-03-2019 8:48pm

dk6dk6 wrote: »

Really?? I see people not entitled to an opinion on here anymore when there so many clowns around. It’s a terrible gold cup this year quality wise hence the favourite hasn’t even ran over fences this season.

Native River - 8 chase wins inc 2 grade 1, 3G2 and 2 grade 3's inc. Gold Cup, Hennessy and Welsh National

Might Bite - 3 Grade 1's King George Winner, RSA Winner , 2xAintree G1 3m winner

Thistlecrack - King George Winner, World Hurdle winner

Bristol De Mai - Double Grade 1 winner 2 x Grade 1's

Bellshill - Double Irish Gold Cup Winner 3 x Grade 1's

Clan Des Obeaux - King George Winner

Kemboy - Grade 1 winner

Al Boom Photo - Novice gold cup grade 1 winner

Shattered Love - 2 x Grade 1's

Presenting Percy - 1 x RSA ( I have no idea why he is favourite BTW )

Can I take this opportunity to apologise to the owners of any animal that I have left off this list. It is laziness on my part.

Anyone that says the Gold cup this year is terrible, is full of crap. The field includes at least 10 Grade 1 winners.

It is going to be one of the best Gold Cups run in years. I cannot wait.

Angliru · 10-03-2019 8:50pm

Can't wait when it is just Thistlecrack and Might Bite left in contention at the last!

Charlie George · 10-03-2019 8:59pm

WicklowBrave wrote: »

Presenting Percy is a good thing. Stays and has the class.

He won the RSA with any amount in hand. He has last year's novices covered. Al Boum Photo would be the only one to fear but his jumping is dodgy and he has a bit to find.

Clan des Obeaux - head in the air, swishes the tail. Better right handed, not crying out for the extra two and a half furlongs. Not sure he's improved as much as it seems, even from the Betfair Chase.

Native River - he'll be a hard horse to pass but PP stays just as well and is a lot classier than NR. Think I read on here that NR wouldn't get within 10 lengths of Limini and Bapaume in a hurdle race, spot on.

Might Bite - in his RSA form he'd hack up but looks like he's had enough of it.

Bellshill - his Irish Nash run was a serious performance and he is one with a chance but he'll need to find improvement. He's a 9yo chaser trained by WPM so he's probably already reached his peak at this stage.

Thistlecrack - f***ing no chance

Bristol de Mai - going under the radar here and he comes here fresh which might be the key and I can see him running a big race.

Anibale Fly - ran a tidy race last year and he ran a blinder in the National.

This whole agument against PP based on him not running over fences this season is nonsense. Doesn't make a blind bit of difference imho. Horses have won Grand Nationals off no runs over fences that season. It's not an issue at all imo. Could be spectacularly wrong but just how I feel about it.

I'm not overly bothered about pp having no run over fences, my beef is that he hasn't beaten any horse of gold cup standard yet, we saw what footpad and samcro did when they stepped up.

Motivator · 10-03-2019 8:59pm

WicklowBrave wrote: »

Presenting Percy is a good thing. Stays and has the class.

Native River - he'll be a hard horse to pass but PP stays just as well and is a lot classier than NR. Think I read on here that NR wouldn't get within 10 lengths of Limini and Bapaume in a hurdle race

Sorry, what? What in God’s name has Native River over hurdles vs Limini and Bapaume got to do with a Gold Cup? Native River is an absolute brute of a horse that will give everything he has. That’s the reason he’s got a Gold Cup in the locker. His performance in the Gold Cup last year was one of the best I’ve ever seen from a staying chaser.

I don’t think Presenting Percy has the balls to beat a horse like Native River. The only time Presenting Percy has got into a battle over fences was against Our Duke in Gowran and he didn’t fancy the battle that day. What makes you think he’ll fancy a slog against battlehardened brutes like Native River and Aniballe Fly? Those horses are absolute warriors and the Gold Cup on Friday is going to be a serious slog - it’ll have a big field and the weather/ground could be dismal.

I’d be of the opinion that Presenting Percy will get a rude awakening and he won’t know what to do. He’ll get nothing soft and it’ll be a bastard of a race. I alluded to it already on a different thread and two weeks later I’m even more convinced he won’t handle it.

WicklowBrave · 10-03-2019 9:09pm

Motivator wrote: »

Sorry, what? What in God’s name has Native River over hurdles vs Limini and Bapaume got to do with a Gold Cup? Native River is an absolute brute of a horse that will give everything he has. That’s the reason he’s got a Gold Cup in the locker. His performance in the Gold Cup last year was one of the best I’ve ever seen from a staying chaser.

I don’t think Presenting Percy has the balls to beat a horse like Native River. The only time Presenting Percy has got into a battle over fences was against Our Duke in Gowran and he didn’t fancy the battle that day. What makes you think he’ll fancy a slog against battlehardened brutes like Native River and Aniballe Fly? Those horses are absolute warriors and the Gold Cup on Friday is going to be a serious slog - it’ll have a big field and the weather/ground could be dismal.

I’d be of the opinion that Presenting Percy will get a rude awakening and he won’t know what to do. He’ll get nothing soft and it’ll be a bastard of a race. I alluded to it already on a different thread and two weeks later I’m even more convinced he won’t handle it.

The point I'm trying to make is that PP stays 3 mile 5f but also has the class to win a slowly run Hurdle race. A horse giving its all is great but its not worth a lot if it can't run as fast as its rival. I know guts counts for a lot in a Gold Cup and I agree NR was awesome in last years Gold Cup. Maybe I'm underestimating him, we'll find out next Friday.

Go back and watch that Gowran race v Our Duke, Russell was very sympathetic on PP. I hope he has the minerals for it, could be wrong. Great race in store. GL.

Motivator · 10-03-2019 9:19pm

WicklowBrave wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make is that PP stays 3 mile 5f but also has the class to win a slowly run Hurdle race. A horse giving its all is great but its not worth a lot if it can't run as fast as its rival. I know guts counts for a lot in a Gold Cup and I agree NR was awesome in last years Gold Cup. Maybe I'm underestimating him, we'll find out next Friday.

Go back and watch that Gowran race v Our Duke, Russell was very sympathetic on PP. I hope he has the minerals for it, could be wrong. Great race in store. GL.

I agree, Presenting Percy has the class but I doubt he has the balls to go with it. It will be some race. I can’t wait to see Altior but I’m very excited for the Gold Cup.

NaiveMelodies · 10-03-2019 9:44pm

dk6dk6 wrote: »

Poorest renewal of the Gold Cup quality wise in living memory in my opinion.

Can you elaborate on your opinion with a fact or two?

One of the highest on collective ratings in a good while.
7 horses set to run rated 168 or higher.

NaiveMelodies · 10-03-2019 9:47pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Native River - 8 chase wins inc 2 grade 1, 3G2 and 2 grade 3's inc. Gold Cup, Hennessy and Welsh National

Might Bite - 3 Grade 1's King George Winner, RSA Winner , 2xAintree G1 3m winner

Thistlecrack - King George Winner, World Hurdle winner

Bristol De Mai - Double Grade 1 winner 2 x Grade 1's

Bellshill - Double Irish Gold Cup Winner 3 x Grade 1's

Clan Des Obeaux - King George Winner

Kemboy - Grade 1 winner

Al Boom Photo - Novice gold cup grade 1 winner

Shattered Love - 2 x Grade 1's

Presenting Percy - 1 x RSA ( I have no idea why he is favourite BTW )

Can I take this opportunity to apologise to the owners of any animal that I have left off this list. It is laziness on my part.

Anyone that says the Gold cup this year is terrible, is full of crap. The field includes at least 10 Grade 1 winners.

It is going to be one of the best Gold Cups run in years. I cannot wait.

Well said. At this stage, the 'worst gold cup in years' seems to be some kind of annual cliche.

longshotvalue · 10-03-2019 10:21pm

dk6dk6 wrote: »

Poorest renewal of the Gold Cup quality wise in living memory in my opinion.

2 king George winners , first 2 from last year, Percy . Multiple grade 1 winners . There has been far worse ones in the last few years .

yaboya1 · 10-03-2019 10:21pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Native River - 8 chase wins inc 2 grade 1, 3G2 and 2 grade 3's inc. Gold Cup, Hennessy and Welsh National

Might Bite - 3 Grade 1's King George Winner, RSA Winner , 2xAintree G1 3m winner

Thistlecrack - King George Winner, World Hurdle winner

Bristol De Mai - Double Grade 1 winner 2 x Grade 1's

Bellshill - Double Irish Gold Cup Winner 3 x Grade 1's

Clan Des Obeaux - King George Winner

Kemboy - Grade 1 winner

Al Boom Photo - Novice gold cup grade 1 winner

Shattered Love - 2 x Grade 1's

Presenting Percy - 1 x RSA ( I have no idea why he is favourite BTW )

Can I take this opportunity to apologise to the owners of any animal that I have left off this list. It is laziness on my part.

Anyone that says the Gold cup this year is terrible, is full of crap. The field includes at least 10 Grade 1 winners.

It is going to be one of the best Gold Cups run in years. I cannot wait.

Obviously not a Presenting Percy fan
How come you don't mention that the RSA is a Grade 1? Yet Shattered Love's two weaker Grade 1 wins are given their status.
Also not a mention that Thistlecrack's KG win was in 2016. He's an 11yo now. Was 8 when he won the KG, which was also the last time he won a race. You don't think that's relevant?

dk6dk6 · 10-03-2019 10:39pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Native River - 8 chase wins inc 2 grade 1, 3G2 and 2 grade 3's inc. Gold Cup, Hennessy and Welsh National

Might Bite - 3 Grade 1's King George Winner, RSA Winner , 2xAintree G1 3m winner

Thistlecrack - King George Winner, World Hurdle winner

Bristol De Mai - Double Grade 1 winner 2 x Grade 1's

Bellshill - Double Irish Gold Cup Winner 3 x Grade 1's

Clan Des Obeaux - King George Winner

Kemboy - Grade 1 winner

Al Boom Photo - Novice gold cup grade 1 winner

Shattered Love - 2 x Grade 1's

Presenting Percy - 1 x RSA ( I have no idea why he is favourite BTW )

Can I take this opportunity to apologise to the owners of any animal that I have left off this list. It is laziness on my part.

Anyone that says the Gold cup this year is terrible, is full of crap. The field includes at least 10 Grade 1 winners.

It is going to be one of the best Gold Cups run in years. I cannot wait.

The part your convienietly missing is the majority on that list are past their best. Doesn’t matter what they did before if their not the same horses now. And the other point is it’s all a game of opinions, there’s no right and wrong. Personally I think it’s a poor renewal quality wise but I’m looking forward to it as a spectacle due to its wide open nature.

yaboya1 · 10-03-2019 10:48pm

dk6dk6 wrote: »

The part your convienietly missing is the majority on that list are past their best. Doesn’t matter what they did before if their not the same horses now. And the other point is it’s all a game of opinions, there’s no right and wrong. Personally I think it’s a poor renewal quality wise but I’m looking forward to it as a spectacle due to its wide open nature.

Well said.
Also left out that Might Bite has finished last in both starts this season.

HarshOstrich · 10-03-2019 10:55pm

Please people, don’t mention Bristol de mai in this race he hasn’t got a prayer, I can’t stand to hear it as he has never showed a thing at cheltenham.
I’m with native river at the moment because of the ground and will stay out of the backwash unlike presenting percy.

Doctors room ghost · 11-03-2019 12:48am

GO ON THE PERCY.

RivetingRoger · 11-03-2019 1:44pm

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

GO ON THE PERCY.

Hi Pat

tipptom · 11-03-2019 4:09pm

Native river wearing blinkers.

JP Liz V1 · 13-03-2019 11:12pm

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Kemboy e/w

Will try Invitation Only e/w too

Johner · 15-03-2019 5:04pm

Motivator wrote: »

If there’s one thing he’s guaranteed in the Gold Cup it’s a battle and the only time he’s had one of those over fences was in Gowran against Our Duke and he got outbattled. There’s hardier horses than him in the Gold Cup and I don’t think many people have even thought about this. Don’t even get me started on the preparation - the horse won’t know what’s hit him in the Gold Cup.

Pat Kelly is obviously a serious man but I think he’s made some balls of this.

Nail on the head here.

dk6dk6 · 19-03-2019 12:40pm

Just a question with hindsight now. I said I thought this was the worst quality gold cup in living memory and a lot seemed to disagree. Maybe I’m harsh but I think Al Boum Photo winning it proves how poor a renewal it was.

NaiveMelodies · 19-03-2019 12:50pm

dk6dk6 wrote: »

Just a question with hindsight now. I said I thought this was the worst quality gold cup in living memory and a lot seemed to disagree. Maybe I’m harsh but I think Al Boum Photo winning it proves how poor a renewal it was.

Wasn't quite as good as I had hoped but you are still wrong- unless you're 4.
Lord Windermere?
Also, Al Boum could notch up a fair whack of Grade 1's if he stays up.

Motivator · 19-03-2019 8:30pm

Johner wrote: »

Nail on the head here.

I’m no genius but that was always going to happen. The horse came back lame but that’s no excuse for his poor performance. His poor performance is to do with his preparation. Kelly and Reynolds made some bollocks of things and I’d say Reynolds is kicking himself. This was a guilt edged chance to win a Gold Cup and they’ll never do it now.

There’s a serious group of horses that will be Gold Cup bound next year and it will be a case of “what if” with Presenting Percy when he’s knocking around in the Cross Country in a year or two.

Joe_ Public · 19-03-2019 8:35pm

Motivator wrote: »

I’m no genius but that was always going to happen. The horse came back lame but that’s no excuse for his poor performance. His poor performance is to do with his preparation. Kelly and Reynolds made some bollocks of things and I’d say Reynolds is kicking himself. This was a guilt edged chance to win a Gold Cup and they’ll never do it now.

There’s a serious group of horses that will be Gold Cup bound next year and it will be a case of “what if” with Presenting Percy when he’s knocking around in the Cross Country in a year or two.

Why can't lameness be an excuse for a poor performance? Horses can win races and still come back lame, but in most cases it's highly unlikely they'd deliver their optimum performance.

Motivator · 19-03-2019 9:06pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Why can't lameness be an excuse for a poor performance? Horses can win races and still come back lame, but in most cases it's highly unlikely they'd deliver their optimum performance.

Trauma and stress can cause lameness and I would think that the horse was completely unprepared for what he faced in the Gold Cup on Friday. He was never in the race at all. No way he was lame before hand, in fact the ITV lads and commentary team commented on how well the horse looked and how he moved on the way down to the start. He was taken off his feet from the moment they jumped on Friday and he was nowhere near prepared like he should have been.

Joe_ Public · 19-03-2019 10:10pm

Motivator wrote: »

Trauma and stress can cause lameness and I would think that the horse was completely unprepared for what he faced in the Gold Cup on Friday. He was never in the race at all. No way he was lame before hand, in fact the ITV lads and commentary team commented on how well the horse looked and how he moved on the way down to the start. He was taken off his feet from the moment they jumped on Friday and he was nowhere near prepared like he should have been.

I’m not saying you’re definitely wrong but I think that opening statement is a bit speculative. How to know at what point of the race the lameness started? Could have been soon after the start or could have been near the finish. I’m not saying he didn’t get the prep wrong, that’s definitely open to debate, just that i don’t believe the race itself offered conclusive proof one way or another.

Motivator · 19-03-2019 10:26pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I’m not saying you’re definitely wrong but I think that opening statement is a bit speculative. How to know at what point of the race the lameness started? Could have been soon after the start or could have been near the finish. I’m not saying he didn’t get the prep wrong, that’s definitely open to debate, just that i don’t believe the race itself offered conclusive proof one way or another.

I’m open to correction on it, I don’t know the facts I’m just speculating. To me, his very odd prep left him completely unprepared for what he faced last week. I don’t think Reynolds or Kelly will publicly state they got it wrong but they did.

Joe_ Public · 19-03-2019 10:51pm

Motivator wrote: »

I’m open to correction on it, I don’t know the facts I’m just speculating. To me, his very odd prep left him completely unprepared for what he faced last week. I don’t think Reynolds or Kelly will publicly state they got it wrong but they did.

That’s fair enough. In any event, I think the race is almost immaterial to the discussion in a way. The horse could have ran a blinder, won even, and it still needn’t have altered people’s perception of the preparation. What odds we see him in down royal before the xmas next season?

Motivator · 19-03-2019 11:23pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

That’s fair enough. In any event, I think the race is almost immaterial to the discussion in a way. The horse could have ran a blinder, won even, and it still needn’t have altered people’s perception of the preparation. What odds we see him in down royal before the xmas next season?

But he didn’t run a blinder and he didn’t win. Those are the facts that we’re dealing with. Completely undercooking the horse for the biggest test of his career was a mental decision and Reynolds must be kicking himself now. It was an absolute joke of a preparation and it was never anything but that.

Presenting Percy May well line up in all the top Grade 1 chases next season but this was the year that they had the chance to win a very open and winnable Gold Cup. I’ve never questioned the horses talent, his attitude maybe, but to do what they did with him this season has to be one of the most bizarre things I’ve ever seen in all my years following racing. I’ve heard people saying there’s always next year but there’s no guarantees that the horse will even get the chance to run in a Gold Cup ever again. The chance was there for them to prep the horse properly and they didn’t do it. I think it’s a decision that will haunt Reynolds for the rest of his life. I think it was a complete waste of an entire year of the horses career.

RivetingRoger · 20-03-2019 5:04pm

Bellshill seems to be a bit like AJ
A class act in Ireland, but leaves it best form this side of the Irish Sea
Shame
Definitely a better horse than Al Boum Photo but has no GC to show for it

yaboya1 · 20-03-2019 7:58pm

RivetingRoger wrote: »

Bellshill seems to be a bit like AJ
A class act in Ireland, but leaves it best form this side of the Irish Sea
Shame
Definitely a better horse than Al Boum Photo but has no GC to show for it

Nonsense.

Conas · 22-03-2019 4:58pm

RivetingRoger wrote: »

Bellshill seems to be a bit like AJ
A class act in Ireland, but leaves it best form this side of the Irish Sea
Shame
Definitely a better horse than Al Boum Photo but has no GC to show for it

I would argue that they are made to look class against decent, but not top class horses. Bellshill's just barely beat Road to Respect by a short head in the Irish Gold cup; Road to Respect finished third in the Ryanair Chase.

He was well beaten in the Savills chase at Leopardstown over Christmas that Kemboy won. He did beat Djakadam in last years Punchestown Gold Cup, but that was only by three quarters of a length. I wouldn't consider him to be a class act in Ireland at all, but maybe others will agree with you.

I wouldn't say he is 'definitely' a better horse than Al Boum Photo either. Remember Al Boum is two years younger, and can improve even more.

WicklowBrave · 22-03-2019 5:23pm

Al Boum Photo is definitely a better horse than Bellshill.

longshotvalue · 22-03-2019 5:55pm

Al Boom Photo just won a well run Gold Cup with a bit in hand, he is a stone clear of Bellshill on all known form.

RivetingRoger · 22-03-2019 6:16pm

ya to be honest, as a Bellshill fan, I have to concede defeat on that one for now....

Gold Cup 2019

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