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Log cabins

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  • 04-03-2018 11:21pm
    #1
    shazaon
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭


    Hi my partner and I are looking at potentially buying a log cabin. We have a young son and are looking to try and get on the property ladder without being weighed down with a huge mortgage! Can anyone give advice or recommendations? We live In Donegal and have a site so it's just a matter of deciding what to do Next? My family has lots of tradesmen so we would be looking to buy flat pack and erect ourselves. Thanks 😀


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    #2
    dathi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭dathi


    you will find it nearly impossible to get planning permission for a log cabin to be used as a home, as they struggle to comply with the building regs .


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    #3
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,065 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Are you looking at a modern method of log build, using square machined

    log section wall elements. Or the traditional style Alaskan round log build.

    There are a good few options out there. Either single wall elements, or an

    external wall envelope, but with an inner wall section, whereby insulation is

    fitted between the two. And timber type is also a major consideration.



    Scandinavian type log houses commonly use an Arctic white pine( IIRC)

    that is far superior to any timber grown here, due to its slower growth rate.

    Personally I would not use any home grown timber, supplier, or erectors.

    I would be using a supplier of the log homes, that has a long history and tradition of

    using this building method, and this is not available in Ireland.



    Log homes building methods are vastly different from any building method used in Ireland

    today. And homegrown logbuilders do not posess that skillset.

    Ive worked for, and with homebased timberframed business's, and they are

    not very good even at simple timberframe. I would not touch any flatpack log

    build that had any input at all from any Irish based company, except maybe delivery

    from outside of Ireland, that used non Irish grown timber, and engineering,

    and non irish installers.



    My opinion is heavily biased towards european/scandinavian input for log builds

    as they have both the proper material as well as the experience, Ireland simply doesn't.

    Sliding joint construction for all the log build opes is alien technology for log

    builders here. They dont understand either the concept, or requirement

    in a traditional log build.

    My 3 cents
    kadman.

    Seek out the experts for this method, you will be glad you did


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    #4
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,065 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Planning permission may well be hard, but not impossible.

    These might be able to help you with planning info in Ireland.

    https://www.beaverlogcabins.ie/log-cabin-planning-permission



    AS your family has lots of tradesmen, then you are already in a great

    position of reducing major labour +profit costs to a normal contractor.

    Maybe consider a small normal build, with a view to expanding at a later

    date.


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    #5
    shazaon
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭shazaon


    Thanks for your input, my struggle Is finding the experts as there are so many people/companies claiming they are! I would generally be a 'word of mouth' consumer when it comes to the bigger decisions but it is not as common in Ireland so it's hard to find out the information needed. We have been looking at both beaver log cabins and timber living. It will ultimately fall on if we are granted planning permission. We have heard of people who have built a log cabin then built around it with block when they found themselves in a better financial position. Is this a valid point?


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    #6
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,065 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    shazaon wrote: »
    Thanks for your input, my struggle Is finding the experts as there are so many people/companies claiming they are! I would generally be a 'word of mouth' consumer when it comes to the bigger decisions but it is not as common in Ireland so it's hard to find out the information needed. We have been looking at both beaver log cabins and timber living. It will ultimately fall on if we are granted planning permission. We have heard of people who have built a log cabin then built around it with block when they found themselves in a better financial position. Is this a valid point?


    Totally wasteful exercise in my opinion. They initially built a normal

    timberframe at the outset, and then stopped short at the cheapest element

    of it.Whilst all the trades and equipment was still there.


    I would consider a small conventional timberframe build, with a well insulated

    external envelope. Considering you have family construction help.

    Check with Beaver to see what logcabins they have got planning permission

    for in Eire, as opposed to NI, and see if you can travel to one, to see close u

    up. better than sales pics.

    Remember all logcabin companies that have F&Q sections, are giving answers

    from salesmen as opposed to from planning experts in accordance with

    current building regs.

    Contact Donegal Council planning officer, and run the logcabin proposal by

    them and see what they would and would not pass. Have your proposed cabin

    spec to hand.

    kadman


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    #7
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,065 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Of course if you build less than 25 square metres, then you dont need planning permission.

    But you need planning for septic tank ect.

    I would imagine that planning issues for a log cabin have been

    asked before in the construction and planning forum, maybe put up a thread there too.


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    #8
    CheezePleeze
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭CheezePleeze


    We just got a log cabin built in our land behind the house from Timber Living. I see from their facebook page that they completed a log cabin in Donegal recently (last Autumn).

    The cabins are great - very well built with Arctic White Pine and good craftsmanship. We're really pleased with what we got for the money. Need it for Granny - she's living alone, and was reluictant to move, but now that she's seen what we've built for her, she can't wait to move in!


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    #9
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,065 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    CheezePleeze wrote: »
    We just got a log cabin built in our land behind the house from Timber Living. I see from their facebook page that they completed a log cabin in Donegal recently (last Autumn).

    The cabins are great - very well built with Arctic White Pine and good craftsmanship. We're really pleased with what we got for the money. Need it for Granny - she's living alone, and was reluictant to move, but now that she's seen what we've built for her, she can't wait to move in!

    Great stuff, firsthand info, what more could the OP need.

    Was it under or over 25 sq metres??


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    #10
    CheezePleeze
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭CheezePleeze


    It was over 25 sq metres, so needed planning, in theory. Generally, as long as the neighbours are on your side, you'll get no problem from planners. if its at the back of the house - out of sight etc, you should be safe, I think.

    Planners will only come out looking if someone comlains, so have a chat with the neighbours, keep calm, and carry on.


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    #11
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,065 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    CheezePleeze wrote: »
    It was over 25 sq metres, so needed planning, in theory. Generally, as long as the neighbours are on your side, you'll get no problem from planners. if its at the back of the house - out of sight etc, you should be safe, I think.

    Planners will only come out looking if someone comlains, so have a chat with the neighbours, keep calm, and carry on.

    Understood.

    But this is going to be the OP primary residence so she/he has to have the correct planning in place, before any neighbour ect has any issues.

    Op wants to safeguard them selves against any potential headaches, obviously.

    Building a logcabin restroom at the back of an existing house, is one thing.

    Resurrecting a new residence on a greenfield site, with no planning is another can of potential

    costly worms.


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    #12
    shazaon
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭shazaon


    The land we own is wooded on the road side and there's a hill behind so it's pretty well hidden from neighbour's(not that there is many) and it's my partners family land so I don't believe we will have problems with neighbours, Hopefully! I would be more worried about ensuring the house is up to code. Can I ask what model you built for your grandmother and does it feel well insulated? Any input is greatly appreciated! Got some sturdy advice so far!!


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    #13
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,065 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Apparently these passive log builds are getting built in Ireland.

    http://www.scanhome.ie/technical-info/


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    #14
    dathi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭dathi


    kadman wrote: »
    Of course if you build less than 25 square metres, then you dont need planning permission.
    .
    that planning exemption only applies to houses that already exist to allow them to build small extensions or sheds


    The total area of such structures
    constructed, erected or placed within the
    curtilage of a house shall not, taken
    together with any other such structures
    previously constructed, erected or placed
    within the said curtilage, exceed 25
    square metres.


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    #15
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,034 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Out of interest, is the 25m² internal or external?

    Not your ornery onager



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    #16
    lgk
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭lgk


    The 25sqm exemption only applies to sheds & garages, not to dwellings.
    Can I build a garden shed on my property without permission?
    Yes, provided that:

    It is not forward of the front wall of the house;
    Not greater than 25sqm (or no. of sheds aggregated);
    25sqm of garden space is left. N.B. extensions attached to house are not reckoned as private open space;
    Shed finish is in keeping with the house;
    Shed height: max 4m pitched roof; 3m flat roof;
    It is not lived in or used for keeping of animals (pigs, ponies, horses, pigeons).


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    #17
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    kadman wrote: »
    Apparently these passive log builds are getting built in Ireland.

    http://www.scanhome.ie/technical-info/

    These are not so much log builds as timber frame prefabricated panels including foundations//floor and passive system for an (optionally) passive house.

    They look very good and are, as far as I can see, very well built.

    However. They quote a price for the parts that they supply, and offer an estimate of what all the other components would be. You have to supply and co-ordinate the ground works, plasterers, roofers, electrical, plumbing etc. Some of these require quite close and accurate timing to fit into the service that the firm provides. Outside Galway, you have to accommodate (ie find and pay for accommodation for) the building team while they are working on your house. There is no guarantee that their cost estimate for additional trades will be accurate. The units that you buy are quite expensive, you are unlikely to save as against traditional building.

    It seemed to me that you would either have to be an experienced manager or employ someone to co-ordinate the work, there were far too many places where responsibility could be disputed.

    As I say though, they do look to be very good quality, and I have no reason to suppose that they would provide anything less than an excellent service, I just did not want to take on the responsibility.


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    #18
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,065 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    looksee wrote: »
    These are not so much log builds as timber frame prefabricated panels including foundations//floor and passive system for an (optionally) passive house.

    They look very good and are, as far as I can see, very well built.

    However. They quote a price for the parts that they supply, and offer an estimate of what all the other components would be. You have to supply and co-ordinate the ground works, plasterers, roofers, electrical, plumbing etc. Some of these require quite close and accurate timing to fit into the service that the firm provides. Outside Galway, you have to accommodate (ie find and pay for accommodation for) the building team while they are working on your house. There is no guarantee that their cost estimate for additional trades will be accurate. The units that you buy are quite expensive, you are unlikely to save as against traditional building.

    It seemed to me that you would either have to be an experienced manager or employ someone to co-ordinate the work, there were far too many places where responsibility could be disputed.

    As I say though, they do look to be very good quality, and I have no reason to suppose that they would provide anything less than an excellent service, I just did not want to take on the responsibility.

    Totally agree.......:cool:


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    #19
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    CheezePleeze wrote: »
    It was over 25 sq metres, so needed planning, in theory. Generally, as long as the neighbours are on your side, you'll get no problem from planners. if its at the back of the house - out of sight etc, you should be safe, I think.

    Planners will only come out looking if someone comlains, so have a chat with the neighbours, keep calm, and carry on.

    Planners have no powers of Enforcement with regards to these structures.
    Its the Planning Enforcement Officers that will be the ones issuing Enforcement Notices.


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    #20
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Esel wrote: »
    Out of interest, is the 25m² internal or external?

    The area of the shed in the rear garden is measured internally.


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    #21
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    CheezePleeze wrote: »
    It was over 25 sq metres, so needed planning, in theory. Generally, as long as the neighbours are on your side, you'll get no problem from planners. if its at the back of the house - out of sight etc, you should be safe, I think.

    Planners will only come out looking if someone comlains, so have a chat with the neighbours, keep calm, and carry on.

    What will certainly happen though, if you wish to sell a house and it has an illegal development, will be a requirement to get retention permission (which by now is far from a box ticking exercise), you may well find it will affect the property tax, may not be insurable, etc.

    Out of sight is no longer out of mind.


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    #22
    Phillip k
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Phillip k


    Hi I'm thinking about getting a log cabin build out my back garden . I'm wondering are you able to rent it down once I have planning permission? And would I need to pay any tax on it?

    Thanks in advance


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    #23
    ..Brian..
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭..Brian..


    Phillip k wrote: »
    Hi I'm thinking about getting a log cabin build out my back garden . I'm wondering are you able to rent it down once I have planning permission? And would I need to pay any tax on it?

    Thanks in advance


    Don't know about renting out the cabin but all income you earn must be declared so you will have to register for income tax and do a tax return each year. If you're employed this will be on top of the PAYE etc you pay in each pay packet.


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    #24
    lgk
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭lgk


    Phillip k wrote: »
    Hi I'm thinking about getting a log cabin build out my back garden . I'm wondering are you able to rent it down once I have planning permission? And would I need to pay any tax on it?

    Thanks in advance

    Anywhere I've seen these getting planning, a condition is attached that explicitly forbids letting them out. You'd need to apply for planning for use a rental unit, which would be a more complicated affair.


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    #25
    bono_v
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭bono_v


    kceire wrote: »
    Planners have no powers of Enforcement with regards to these structures.
    Its the Planning Enforcement Officers that will be the ones issuing Enforcement Notices.

    How does this work? I live in a private house in Dublin. I have a log cabin out my back garden that my elderly mother in law has lived in for two years. Most of my nieghnours know about this. If one of them complained about us and a planning enforcement officer comes knocking at the door how are they to prove my mother in law is living in a log cabin out our back garden?


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    #26
    Yakov P. Golyadkin
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭Yakov P. Golyadkin


    bono_v wrote: »
    ...how are they to prove my mother in law is living in a log cabin out our back garden?

    It may be difficult to prove someone is living in the cabin, instead they would look to prove that it's possible to live in and then order that it be made 'uninhabitable' (that's quite a strong word but you get what I mean, I hope).

    Enforcement generally only act on complaints from the public and most of those are from the neighbours so if you've had two years without problem you'll probably be safe in future.


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