Richest 1% may soon own more than the rest of the world

BeerWolf · 19-01-2015 3:54pm

Wonder how many of that 1% got it strictly through inheritance, people that haven't worked a day in their lives...

listermint · 19-01-2015 4:00pm

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

It's a lot easier for most people to just begrudge those who try and succeed than join them. This holds true to a lot of things in life, unfortunately.

It also holds true in life that wealth breeds wealth.

Have you ever heard of the poverty barrier ?

Well that one is there preventing some from just getting a decent wage.

Then there is the wealth barrier were some people seem to believe that just by going out and working your ass off will get you somewhere, that maybe true for a very small amount of individuals.

But the vast majority that came from money retain the money.

Which is why the whole buck up and work hard ****e is tough to swallow.

kneemos · 19-01-2015 4:03pm

I suspect if you shared all the wealth out with the poor it would go straight back to the wealthy.

smash · 19-01-2015 4:09pm

BeerWolf wrote: »

Wonder how many of that 1% got it strictly through inheritance, people that haven't worked a day in their lives...

Who cares how they got it?

You could have someone who works their as off in McDonalds for 40 hours a week for 40 years. Do they deserve to be wealthy? Fcuk no they don't. They've done nothing except their job, which is at it's best, basic! Working does not entitle you to be wealthy.

KomradeBishop · 19-01-2015 4:15pm

Also, what has been presented as a stopgap 'solution' to our economic problems - Quantitative Easing - is actually just a massive redistribution of wealth, towards the already wealthy. The money from QE, is being used to inflate commodity prices - with the gains primarily going to the already-wealthy and finance in general (it's basically pissing money at the already-wealthy).

Good on them - they earned it!(?!)

Meanwhile, austerity/budget-balancing policies pushed upon governments, and the effect they have on demand in the economy and wages/employment, is removing wealth from the rest of society.

Somehow, people are not yet massively pissed off about this.

Playboy · 19-01-2015 4:15pm

AndonHandon wrote: »

I just do not understand the begrudgery of people against this mythical 1%. Comments like "trust fund" and "inheritance" ring hollow. Want to become part of the 1%? Then make an effort.

Are you for real lol? Do you know anything about money and capital? Do you think the majority of people in the 1% are there because of effort?

I'm in the top 0.07% when it comes to income but in the top 18% when it comes to wealth. How easy do you think it is to turn income into wealth? Just come up with some amazing business idea and see it through in a highly competitive market, win the lotto or play the stock market. I'll do that in my spare time while working 60 hours a week to provide for a family.

Have a read of this book... it will teach you about wealth, capital and where things are going if we don't drastically address the issue of wealth redistribution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_in_the_Twenty-First_Century

Dan_Solo · 19-01-2015 4:16pm

AndonHandon wrote: »

Better ensure I'm not in the 99% or else I'll have a self-entitlement attitude where I expect to receive wealth for minimal excursion.

Ah yes, those emaciated Ehiopians living in huts made of ****. If only they'd aim higher and stop the dossing they'd have 5m in no time. Silly hippies and that "inequality" word they made up.

floggg · 19-01-2015 4:17pm

techdiver wrote: »

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Here you go.

Put you NET income in here and you'll see most people in Ireland are in at least the top 5%, if not higher. I'm in the top 1% and I'm not in a particularly high paid job.

Thanks. I feel a lot better about myself now. I'm rich, bitch!

Dan_Solo · 19-01-2015 4:19pm

diomed wrote: »

Good idea. Let's hope Ireland can have lots of loss-making companies going bankrupt. We will all benefit from the distribution.

You mean like bankers and developers going bankrupt? Well they did very well out of it. Pity the rest of us had to pay for it.

Timberrrrrrrr · 19-01-2015 4:20pm

techdiver wrote: »

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Here you go.

Put you NET income in here and you'll see most people in Ireland are in at least the top 5%, if not higher. I'm in the top 1% and I'm not in a particularly high paid job.

You’re in the top
0.35%
richest people in the world by income.

:eek:

MRnotlob606 · 19-01-2015 4:21pm

AndonHandon wrote: »

Better ensure I'm not in the 99% or else I'll have a self-entitlement attitude where I expect to receive wealth for minimal excursion.

It's not about self-entitlement its about fair taxation policies. There is a growing disparity between rich and poor in the world. Since the recession standard of living has decreased for most people in Ireland while the richest have gotten richer.

It about making society more democratic and equal.The above comment is filled with empty thatcherite neoliberal rhetoric.If we don't work this out , social cohesion between all economic groups will become nearly impossible.

BMJD · 19-01-2015 4:40pm

KomradeBishop wrote: »

The narrative on these threads is telling:
Upward redistribution of wealth, from the rest of society towards the wealthy = Good on them. They earned it (apparently, the rest of society didn't earn the share being taken from them).

Downward redistribution of wealth, from the wealthy, to the rest of society = Begrudgers 'stealing' from the wealthy.

It's odd that people don't understand, that upward redistribution of wealth, means making the rest of society poorer and more indebted - the increase in wealth, is not merely due to growing economies, it's actually being redistributed, being taken from the rest of society.

Whatever, I don't care about all that because I am considerably, CONSIDERABLY, richer than you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHo2pXO_XAI

BeerWolf · 19-01-2015 4:42pm

smash wrote: »

Who cares how they got it?

You could have someone who works their as off in McDonalds for 40 hours a week for 40 years. Do they deserve to be wealthy? Fcuk no they don't. They've done nothing except their job, which is at it's best, basic! Working does not entitle you to be wealthy.

And what about chemists, physicists, programmers, vet, etc... all very complex things, and they ain't rich [€30-90k] compared to a business man who does 'basic' stuff of having the right HR sourcing out people working for him and reaping in the profits from other people's much harder work... making hundreds to millions, and so forth, per year ?

Your example of a McDonald's worker is pretty irrelevant.

smash · 19-01-2015 4:44pm

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

It's not about self-entitlement its about fair taxation policies. There is a growing disparity between rich and poor in the world. Since the recession standard of living has decreased for most people in Ireland while the richest have gotten richer.

If you have a bit of money, then it's very easy to make money in a recession. This has nothing to do with taxation policies!

jimgoose · 19-01-2015 4:45pm

BMJD wrote: »

Whatever, I don't care about all that because I am considerably, CONSIDERABLY, richer than you!...

LoadsamonnAAAY! Turbo-nutter-BAWSTWARD!!

smash · 19-01-2015 4:46pm

BeerWolf wrote: »

And what about chemists, physicists, programmers, vet, etc... all very complex things, and they ain't rich [€30-90k] compared to a business man who does 'basic' stuff of having the right HR sourcing out people working for him and reaping in the profits from other people's much harder work... making hundreds to millions, and so forth, per year ?

Your example of a McDonald's worker is pretty irrelevant.

You examples of "chemists, physicists, programmers, vet" is irrelevant. These are all good paying jobs where there's a good possibility of making a hell of a lot of money in your career.

tayto lover · 19-01-2015 4:48pm

Our Government continues to ensure that the rich stays rich by continuing to allow them pay as little tax as possible and in some cases no tax at all.
Meanwhile they will chase the ordinary worker for the last cent.
What is happening is nothing short of scandalous.

steddyeddy · 19-01-2015 4:51pm

smash wrote: »

Who cares how they got it?

You could have someone who works their as off in McDonalds for 40 hours a week for 40 years. Do they deserve to be wealthy? Fcuk no they don't. They've done nothing except their job, which is at it's best, basic! Working does not entitle you to be wealthy.

Fair enough but you pretty much disproved the top 1% are the hardest workers hypothesis.

Akrasia · 19-01-2015 4:52pm

Bootros Bootros wrote: »

Yes they inherited that wealth in great fashion

Not all of them inherited it, some of them got it through thievery, fraud and deception.

smash · 19-01-2015 4:54pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Fair enough but you pretty much disproved the top 1% are the hardest workers hypothesis.

I never agreed with that hypothesis anyway. It's nonsense. They are by no means the hardest workers.

Akrasia · 19-01-2015 4:57pm

jimgoose wrote: »

According to the Pedia of Wiki, Ireland was ranked 15th in the list of World nations GDP per-capita in 2012. That, in short, means that this 1% is us. So take it hawndy noy a while with the dreadlocks and protesting an' shiz-nit. Be careful what you wish for!

My personal net assets are measured in how many multi-packs of beans are in my cupboard.

When I get a Lidl xxl offer on toilet paper and when there's a higher than usual ratio of food to frost in my freezer, I feel wealthy for a while.

BMJD · 19-01-2015 5:03pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Our Government continues to ensure that the rich stays rich by continuing to allow them pay as little tax as possible and in some cases no tax at all.
Meanwhile they will chase the ordinary worker for the last cent.
What is happening is nothing short of scandalous.

That is false but don't let facts get in the way of yer little hippy rant

http://www.ibec.ie/IBEC/Press/PressPublicationsdoclib3.nsf/vPages/Newsroom~new-ibec-report-debunking-income-tax-myths-28-09-2014/$file/Debunking+Irish+income+tax+myths.pdf

tayto lover · 19-01-2015 5:19pm

BMJD wrote: »

That is false but don't let facts get in the way of yer little hippy rant

http://www.ibec.ie/IBEC/Press/PressPublicationsdoclib3.nsf/vPages/Newsroom~new-ibec-report-debunking-income-tax-myths-28-09-2014/$file/Debunking+Irish+income+tax+myths.pdf

I didn't see any mention of Apple or the other large companies who are supposed to be paying a lot more Corporate Tax than they are.
OR this -
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/superwealthy-only-pay-tiny-fraction-in-tax-26880880.html

BMJD · 19-01-2015 5:27pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I didn't see any mention of Apple or the other large companies who are supposed to be paying a lot more Corporate Tax than they are.
OR this -
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/superwealthy-only-pay-tiny-fraction-in-tax-26880880.html

Apple don't pay income tax because they aren't a person - they pay quite a lot of employees well though, and they pay plenty of income tax on that. Put it this way, if we told Apple and all their employees to fcuk off back to California in the morning, would Ireland be better off financially? I doubt it.

Also, typical Indo headline

The recession and collapse of the property market has, however, "decimated" the value of many of these assets, according to Brian Keegan, director of taxation at Chartered Accountants Ireland.

"Someone may have built up an expensive portfolio of properties but those properties could be worth very little today," says Mr Keegan. "Because of the volatility of the property market and stock market, it's hard to draw a straight line between someone's net worth and their capacity to earn enough to pay tax bills.

"High worth doesn't always mean high-income, and vice versa. However, people with high asset values may have greater tax liabilities and more complicated tax issues; hence there is a special unit with Revenue to deal with them."

I would agree that the likes of this is bull**** that should be cut out

However, Ireland's richest man -- Pallonji Mistry, a secretive Indian tycoon -- is unlikely to pay much, if any tax here. He only took out Irish citizenship in 2003 and despite his wife Patsi being born in Dublin is not known to have ever visited Ireland.

techdiver · 19-01-2015 5:43pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

:eek:

By income, though, not by wealth.

awec · 19-01-2015 5:50pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I didn't see any mention of Apple or the other large companies who are supposed to be paying a lot more Corporate Tax than they are.
OR this -
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/superwealthy-only-pay-tiny-fraction-in-tax-26880880.html

You are surprised that Apple are not mentioned in a report about Income Tax?

tayto lover · 19-01-2015 5:54pm

awec wrote: »

You are surprised that Apple are not mentioned in a report about Income Tax?

No i'm not. But I then specifically mentioned Corporate Tax. Enjoy the nit-picking though.

Iwasfrozen · 19-01-2015 6:02pm

tayto lover wrote: »

No i'm not. But I then specifically mentioned Corporate Tax. Enjoy the nit-picking though.

Why only pick on corporate tax? What about all of the money they pay their irish based employees, how much tax is collected there? When pay for Irish utilities, gas water electricity, how much of that is collected as tax? How much money do they pay out to smaller companies that provide services to them? How much of that money makes it to their exchequer?

You're being very selective when you pick corporation tax and ignore all other streams of revenue.

tayto lover · 19-01-2015 6:07pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why only pick on corporate tax? What about all of the money they pay their irish based employees, how much tax is collected there? When pay for Irish utilities, gas water electricity, how much of that is collected as tax? How much money do they pay out to smaller companies that provide services to them? How much of that money makes it to their exchequer?

You're being very selective when you pick corporation tax and ignore all other streams of revenue.

My main point is that a worker will be followed by Revenue for the last cent while big companies like Apple are allowed dodge what they owe.
The fact that their workers pay Income Tax has nothing to do with their Corporate Tax dodging at all but they are being allowed get away with it.

Iwasfrozen · 19-01-2015 6:11pm

tayto lover wrote: »

My main point is that a worker will be followed by Revenue for the last cent while big companies like Apple are allowed dodge what they owe.
The fact that their workers pay Income Tax has nothing to do with their Corporate Tax dodging at all but they are being allowed get away with it.

Workers are a less elastic resource than companies.

Plus if a worker ups and leaves no one cares, if apple leaves the whole country feels the pain.

tayto lover · 19-01-2015 6:13pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Workers are a less elastic resource than companies.

Plus if a worker ups and leaves no one cares, if apple leaves the whole country feels the pain.

So we give in to blackmail then?
What if a group of factories make an ultimatum to the Govt to get the same terms as Apple and threaten to move their work to another country?

dutopia · 19-01-2015 6:20pm

0.11%, just out of the 1%

wexandproud · 19-01-2015 6:32pm

Caliden wrote: »

Profit should be a dirty word.

totally wrong . would you prefer to work for a profit or loss making company?. If a company could not be profitable what incentive is there for the risk and stress to the owners. if the banks had been profit making the country would be better off than it is now and if government were profit making it would be great also. As it is , it is has to borrow to cover running costs... never a good long term option..
sorry for going off thread slightly

ScumLord · 19-01-2015 6:37pm

Bootros Bootros wrote: »

Yes they inherited that wealth in great fashion

So are you suggesting that when you or one of your relatives die that the state should swoop in and take all your wealth for the states use? The wishes of the dead person should be ignored?

Iwasfrozen · 19-01-2015 6:40pm

tayto lover wrote: »

So we give in to blackmail then?

It's not blackmail it's reality.

What if a group of factories make an ultimatum to the Govt to get the same terms as Apple and threaten to move their work to another country?

Maybe.

tayto lover · 19-01-2015 6:54pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's not blackmail it's reality.

It is clearly blackmail and fear.
Why else do you think they're getting away with it?

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0521/451564-apple-tax-arrangements/

BlatentCheek · 19-01-2015 6:58pm

kneemos wrote: »

I suspect if you shared all the wealth out with the poor it would go straight back to the wealthy.

I've heard that before yet astonishingly those making that claim never feel confident enough to put their article of faith to the test and instead vehemently oppose anything that might even slightly equalise wealth distribution.

If proponents of a theory do everything possible to avoid it being tested then you can assume that even they know that it's BS.

Also people justifying the infinitesimal tax paid by certain corporations by bleating on about how their workers pay tax so it's all okay are missing the point: Corporations bestow the advantage of a separate legal personality that allows shareholders to obtain personal profit without taking personal responsibility for the corporations actions and liabilities, the quid pro quo is that it should get taxed at a rate that reflects the advantage bestowed.

Irish Guitarist · 19-01-2015 7:00pm

If you ever watch MTV Cribs you'll see rich American sports players you've probably never heard of. They have rooms that they never even use which are about the size of my house as well as dozens of cars they'll never drive.

These people wouldn't even be in the top 1% though. I don't understand the multi billionaires that just keep collecting more and more money. It's not about 'begrudgery'. There's just no way anyone needs that money, even to live in luxury. I actually think it's a mental illness to just want to get more and more money, like those hoarders that just keep collecting crap they don't need and will never use. There comes a point when money just becomes meaningless.

At least Bill Gates supposedly wants to give away most of his money. He can afford to though. He could give away 99% of his wealth and still have more left than most people will earn in their lifetime.

http://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/#tab:overall

Putin · 19-01-2015 7:02pm

BeerWolf wrote: »

Wonder how many of that 1% got it strictly through inheritance, people that haven't worked a day in their lives...

A very significant portion of them no doubt.

Vomit · 19-01-2015 7:24pm

AndonHandon wrote: »

Better ensure I'm not in the 99% or else I'll have a self-entitlement attitude where I expect to receive wealth for minimal excursion.

And what work exactly did these parasites at the top of the pyramid do? Yeah it must be backbreaking labour simply existing as part of a bloodline of inheritance and privilege.

Bootros Bootros · 19-01-2015 7:26pm

ScumLord wrote: »

So are you suggesting that when you or one of your relatives die that the state should swoop in and take all your wealth for the states use? The wishes of the dead person should be ignored?

I am suggesting that if the state is seizing income which is transferred to productive workers it should seize the wealth or income "earned" by people who exit the correct vagina.

For most of history we had feudalist hellholes precisely because there was no wealth tax.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 19-01-2015 7:28pm

Ha by income I am in the top 0.44% in the world. Am I a fat cat now?

smash · 19-01-2015 7:45pm

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Ha by income I am in the top 0.44% in the world. Am I a fat cat now?

You're a fat donkey!

Iwasfrozen · 19-01-2015 8:06pm

"taytyo wrote:

It is clearly blackmail and fear.
Why else do you think they're getting away with it?

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0521/451564-apple-tax-arrangements/

What are you on about? It's not blackmail to leave if you can pay less tax elsewhere.

Saipanne · 19-01-2015 8:11pm

techdiver wrote: »

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Here you go.

Put you NET income in here and you'll see most people in Ireland are in at least the top 5%, if not higher. I'm in the top 1% and I'm not in a particularly high paid job.

I'm in the top 1%.

Awesome.

bb1234567 · 19-01-2015 8:18pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Some of us here are probably in the 1% given it is 70 million people.

Id say a good proportion of Western Europeans are in that 1%. Apparently 50% of the 1% of the worlds richest people are american. Then Id say uber rich middle easterners and chinese/japanese make up most of the rest of the 1%.

Dan_Solo · 19-01-2015 8:23pm

bb1234567 wrote: »

Id say a good proportion of Europeans are in that 1%.

There's about 750 million people in Europe. You might want to get that calculator checked.

Iwasfrozen · 19-01-2015 8:31pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

There's about 750 million people in Europe. You might want to get that calculator checked.

Ex commies aren't european.

Iwasfrozen · 19-01-2015 8:33pm

KomradeBishop wrote: »

The narrative on these threads is telling:
Upward redistribution of wealth, from the rest of society towards the wealthy = Good on them. They earned it (apparently, the rest of society didn't earn the share being taken from them).

Downward redistribution of wealth, from the wealthy, to the rest of society = Begrudgers 'stealing' from the wealthy.

It's odd that people don't understand, that upward redistribution of wealth, means making the rest of society poorer and more indebted - the increase in wealth, is not merely due to growing economies, it's actually being redistributed, being taken from the rest of society.

According to this site I'm in the 1% richest incomes in the world. Why on Earth would I want to redistribute that?

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Saipanne · 19-01-2015 8:35pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

According to this site I'm in the 1% richest incomes in the world. Why on Earth would I want to redistribute that?

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Amen, my fellow socialite.