ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

thomas 123 · 28-10-2020 11:05pm

The Belly wrote: »

well stay curious

Do you run a business that requires you to stand in a room with 30+ people for 40 mins at a time?

You claimed you worked in similar circumstances to teachers earlier so either you as an employer don’t adhere to advice or you where spouting nonsense to progress your argument.

Bobtheman · 28-10-2020 11:05pm

enricoh wrote: »

Bring back bertie and the benchmarking atm bonanza, it'll bankrupt the country but it's great for buying votes in elections!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/news/gap-between-public-and-private-sector-pay-narrowing-report-38695533.html
the latest earnings data from the CSO shows that public servants earn 38pc more than private sector workers.

Yawn. Just cause you failed the exam.- don't take it out on us

The Belly · 28-10-2020 11:06pm

thomas 123 wrote: »

Do you run a business that requires you to stand in a room with 30+ people for 40 mins at a time?

You claimed you worked in similar circumstances to teachers earlier so either you as an employer don’t adhere to advice or you where spouting nonsense to progress your argument.

No, I didn't claim that at all. You think what you think your mind is made up.

Iscreamkone · 28-10-2020 11:08pm

The government should call a state of emergency and prevent public employees from striking. Anyone who strikes should then be sacked.
In the style of Ronald Reagan and the air traffic controllers.

thomas 123 · 28-10-2020 11:08pm

The Belly wrote: »

No, I didn't claim that at all. You think what you think your mind is made up.

It’s here in the thread, read back over what you said.

You said you expect them to get on with it and that you worked in similar conditions and that you had to get on with it.

28-10-2020 11:09pm

What nurses and doctors have had to put themselves through since March, not one whine to be heard. A few weeks in and the teachers are getting themselves in an awful tizzy. The entitlement complex knows no bounds, to demand a pay increase when hundreds of thousands are forced out of employment is tactless in the extreme.

Rodney Bathgate · 28-10-2020 11:10pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What nurses and doctors have had to put themselves through since March, not one whine to be heard. A few weeks in and the teachers are getting themselves in an awful tizzy. The entitlement complex knows no bounds, to demand a pay increase when hundreds of thousands are forced out of employment is tactless in the extreme.

Deluded doesn’t even come close to describing the Union and its membership.

The Belly · 28-10-2020 11:10pm

thomas 123 wrote: »

It’s here in the thread, read back over what you said.

You said you expect them to get on with it and that you worked in similar conditions and that you had to get on with it.

What I expect is that unions don't take advantage and threaten strike for more money.

Bobtheman · 28-10-2020 11:10pm

The Belly wrote: »

And that I have no issues with but sneaking in the pay increase is a bit rich. It's not the time for it.

Pay equality dip stick. Most of the teachers voting for that
Wont benefit at all.
Anyway no point arguing here. I know some people think they are a big deal on the internet but in the real world nobody gives a flying **** about boards.ie
And anybody knows anything about trade union disputes knows it's pissing off the public not pleasing them that wins but this time I think lots of sympathy about suppression of data from schools and the bull**** definition of a close contact that changes once you step in a school ground.
Night night

thomas 123 · 28-10-2020 11:11pm

The Belly wrote: »

What I expect is that unions don't take advantage and threaten strike for more money.

I did not mention the money once - you and I specifically discussed the health concerns.

Smacruairi · 28-10-2020 11:11pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What nurses and doctors have had to put themselves through since March, not one whine to be heard. A few weeks in and the teachers are getting themselves in an awful tizzy. The entitlement complex knows no bounds, to demand a pay increase when hundreds of thousands are forced out of employment is tactless in the extreme.

You know that nurses unions and junior doctors both threatened industrial action in the past few years right?

thomas 123 · 28-10-2020 11:11pm

The Belly wrote: »

What I expect is that unions don't take advantage and threaten strike for more money.

For the record I disagree with that also - maybe they don’t want it off the radar.

Rodney Bathgate · 28-10-2020 11:11pm

The Belly wrote: »

What I expect is that unions don't take advantage and threaten strike for more money.

Scummy behaviour.

The Belly · 28-10-2020 11:12pm

thomas 123 wrote: »

For the record I disagree with that also - maybe they don’t want it off the radar.

yes but like everything a time and a place we can agree to disagree on some points.

Bobtheman · 28-10-2020 11:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What nurses and doctors have had to put themselves through since March, not one whine to be heard. A few weeks in and the teachers are getting themselves in an awful tizzy. The entitlement complex knows no bounds, to demand a pay increase when hundreds of thousands are forced out of employment is tactless in the extreme.

If you got your head out of your hole you'd know they did a lot of whinging about getting proper PPE. They also objected strongly to be called front line as it had connotations of soldiers sacrificing themselves. The HSE never asked nurses to turn off their covid tracker. They have told teachers to do so.

noodler · 28-10-2020 11:14pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What nurses and doctors have had to put themselves through since March, not one whine to be heard. A few weeks in and the teachers are getting themselves in an awful tizzy. The entitlement complex knows no bounds, to demand a pay increase when hundreds of thousands are forced out of employment is tactless in the extreme.

Someone working at a till has to sit there for hours with hundreds of people coming in and out with no clue as to their covid status.

It's fairly clear why the whole class and teacher isn't counted as a close contact - it's to keep the show on the road and potentially stop entire schools closing if one or two students get it (unavoidable we all agree).

What they are asking for in my view is essentially to close the schools when all available evidence shows the school transmission is low.

They've 6/7 weeks before Christmas break, we are on lockdown so transmission is reducing further, if the country can't deal with any risk then we will be in even worse dire straits soon enough.

thomas 123 · 28-10-2020 11:15pm

The Belly wrote: »

yes but like everything a time and a place we can agree to disagree on some points.

No no - I agree the pay is bad timing,

I don’t agree that they should get on with awful conditions in schools riddled with a virus and the HSE actively making up rules(close contact definition / not informing schools etc) to massage figures.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants · 28-10-2020 11:15pm

If a two tier Payscale is legal why not a two union scale?

IE, new entrants will be banned from striking like Gardaí and army.

Pay capped at €45,000.

Pay increase contingent on performance (like the rest of us).

Pension funds at the mercy of the economy (like the rest of us).

Mandatory exam correction and administration work in the summer.

4 weeks annual leave like the rest of us.

Newbie20 · 28-10-2020 11:15pm

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Newbie20 wrote: »

I don’t think I’ve seen as many false claims in one post before. “Missed the crucial revision term”. What in Gods name are you

The last term before the leaving cert in June,schools.closed in march at the start of the last term of the school year which is used for revision, you could have worked that out though but I'm guessing that's your main point of arguement to get into this with me.

Did the teachers decide to close the schools? No
Did the teachers continue to teach the Leaving Certs online? Yes
When did the teachers stop teaching Leaving Certs? When the government cancelled the Leaving.

There’s a couple of facts that might make your post less full of rubbish.

History Queen · 28-10-2020 11:17pm

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

If a two tier Payscale is legal why not a two union scale?

IE, new entrants will be banned from joining a union.

Pay capped at €45,000.

Mandatory exam correction and administration work in the summer.

4 weeks annual leave like the rest of us.

What do you hope to achieve by the above? But to answer your first question(which then invalidates everything else) Employees have a right set down in the Constitution to join a trade union

Bobtheman · 28-10-2020 11:17pm

noodler wrote: »

Someone working at a till has to sit there for hours with hundreds of people coming in and out with no clue as to their covid status.

It's fairly clear why the whole class and teacher isn't counted as a close contact - it's to keep the show on the road and potentially stop entire schools closing if one or two students get it (unavoidable we all agree).

What they are asking for in my view is essentially to close the schools when all available evidence shows the school transmission is low.

They've 6/7 weeks before Christmas break, we are on lockdown so transmission is reducing further, if the country can't deal with any risk then we will be in even worse dire straits soon enough.

We have done a terrible job if you think the intention is to close schools. Teaching a pupil for 40 minutes to an hour is radically different to a shopper who is probably less than 5 minutes plus the shop assistant is behind a screen.. probably

Tomtom3105 · 28-10-2020 11:18pm

Newbie20 wrote: »

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Did the teachers decide to close the schools? No
Did the teachers continue to teach the Leaving Certs online? Yes
When did the teachers stop teaching Leaving Certs? When the government cancelled the Leaving.

There’s a couple of facts that might make your post less

Why wouldnt they teach them when they were still getting their full wages?

Eleven Benevolent Elephants · 28-10-2020 11:18pm

History Queen wrote: »

What do you hope to achieve by the above?

Making workshy teachers come down to reality.

Bobtheman · 28-10-2020 11:18pm

History Queen wrote: »

What do you hope to achieve by the above?

He wants revenge for the way his life turned out and a teacher rightly calling him a moron

Iscreamkone · 28-10-2020 11:19pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

Yawn. Just cause you failed the exam.- don't take it out on us

Hello - we pay your wages - do your job or we may decide not to pay you anymore

lawred2 · 28-10-2020 11:20pm

Equal pay is a covid issue?

thomas 123 · 28-10-2020 11:20pm

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Making workshy teachers come down to reality.

Were you not afforded the opportunity to become a teacher?

We all make choices.

History Queen · 28-10-2020 11:21pm

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Making workshy teachers come down to reality.

So you want to do something unconstitutional because you don't like teachers. Right.

History Queen · 28-10-2020 11:23pm

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Hello - we pay your wages - do your job or we may decide not to pay you anymore

How do you personally propose to follow through on your threat?

Newbie20 · 28-10-2020 11:23pm

As a teacher, I feel that it was a big mistake to put the equal pay argument in with the covid issues. This of course is now everybody’s focus and gives the usual bashers all the ammunition they need.

The other issues re covid are valid but will be overlooked now. I would fully expect the ASTI to battle with the government for these to be sorted, in particular the joke of the situation regarding definition of a close contact in school. But I don’t want to strike, I really hope they don’t make that call. It’s not the time.

Guffy · 28-10-2020 11:24pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

He wants revenge for the way his life turned out and a teacher rightly calling him a moron

Your not winning the hearts and minds here

Tomtom3105 · 28-10-2020 11:24pm

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Newbie20 wrote: »

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Did the teachers decide to close the schools? No
Did the teachers continue to teach the Leaving Certs online? Yes
When did the teachers stop teaching Leaving Certs? When the government cancelled the Leaving.

There’s a couple of facts that might make your post less

Why wouldnt they teach them when they were still getting their full wages?

Did the builders close the building sites ? Did the irish people close the country? What are you talking about,everyones year got ****ed up everyone has been affected negatively In some way by the whole thing but the teachers got one of the least raw deals but are the first to the line with the whinging it's always the same
The majority of my post is my opinion which i am entitled to voice in this public forum, the general public are just not going to have any sympathy for the teachers because they have heaps of their own problems borne of this pandemic and threatening strike and therefore causing uncertainty about the schools remaining open so we can get back to normality isnt exactly going to be met with applause.

noodler · 28-10-2020 11:26pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You missed the Six One news this evening, there were 46 new school outbreaks identified in the last week. And this out of a total of 126 to date. You'd want to get real.

This is the sort of soapboxing to be avoided.

School transmission is one third of that on the community. It does not mean there are no cases.

There have been over 12,000 cases in the last ten days. A disproportionately small amount of them are from school transmission.

You'd actually want to get real yourself if you think no student or teacher catching it is a realistic aim. Zero covid is not realistic

SouthWesterly · 28-10-2020 11:26pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

There would be no issue with these new entrants had the existing teachers not been happy to pull the ladder up behind them and shaft newbies in 2010..

All the civil and public services did it, not just the teachers

Iscreamkone · 28-10-2020 11:28pm

The government have already brought in legislation preventing landlords from evicting tenants during the Covid emergency. They should bring in similar legislation banning public employees from striking. If these public employees then strike - sack them.

Plenty unemployed graduates at the moment who could step up.

Reagan sacked 11,000 air traffic controllers when they went on strike, and life banned them from returning. That’s the spirit.

Newbie20 · 28-10-2020 11:29pm

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Newbie20 wrote: »

Did the builders close the building sites ? Did the irish people close the country? What are you talking about,everyones year got ****ed up everyone has been affected negatively In some way by the whole thing but the teachers got one of the least raw deals but are the first to the line with the whinging it's always the same
The majority of my post is my opinion which i am entitled to voice in this public forum, the general public are just not going to have any sympathy for the teachers because they have heaps of their own problems borne of this pandemic and threatening strike and therefore causing uncertainty about the schools remaining open so we can get back to normality isnt exactly going to be met with applause.

You are entitled to your opinion. But then there are also facts, you might want to check out some of them.

Smacruairi · 28-10-2020 11:29pm

Iscreamkone wrote: »

The government have already brought in legislation preventing landlords from evicting tenants during the Covid emergency. They should bring in similar legislation banning public employees from striking. If these public employees then strike - sack them.

Plenty unemployed graduates at the moment who could step up.

Reagan sacked 11,000 air traffic controllers when they went on strike, and life banned them from returning. That’s the spirit.

This time, the third time you'll get a bite. I'm sure you will. You keep hoping buddy.

yabadabado · 28-10-2020 11:30pm

SouthWesterly wrote: »

All the civil and public services did it, not just the teachers

Is there two tier pay in all other area's?

Say someone working as a clerical officer or a garda?
Is that 2 tier pay for doing the same job based on the date of entry ?

History Queen · 28-10-2020 11:31pm

Iscreamkone wrote: »

The government have already brought in legislation preventing landlords from evicting tenants during the Covid emergency. They should bring in similar legislation banning public employees from striking. If these public employees then strike - sack them.

Plenty unemployed graduates at the moment who could step up.

Reagan sacked 11,000 air traffic controllers when they went on strike, and life banned them from returning. That’s the spirit.

There's a teacher shortage.... and a nurse shortage... not sure about doctors or other sectors sooooo.....

As much as some posters hate the public and civil services we need them for the country to function. The ire directed at teachers is something to behold, though I do appreciate it is often to the public sector as a while.

KaneToad · 28-10-2020 11:32pm

AlphaDelta1 wrote: »

I'll be supporting them so not exactly nobody OP.

I think I'd support them too. Their demands aren't that outrageous.

Tomtom3105 · 28-10-2020 11:33pm

Newbie20 wrote: »

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion. But then there are also facts, you might want to check out some of them.

Would you say the teachers have the backing of the public then? Do you think this is the right time to be striking? Do you think this will be a positive move for the teachers ?

28-10-2020 11:33pm

I hope the Government don’t waste this opportunity, with public support, to slap down this union of whingers. Do they think they are the only ones who have to work in rooms with other people?

Iscreamkone · 28-10-2020 11:35pm

History Queen wrote: »

There's a teacher shortage.... and a nurse shortage... not sure about doctors or other sectors sooooo.....

As much as some posters hate the public and civil services we need them for the country to function. The ire directed at teachers is something to behold, though I do appreciate it is often to the public sector as a while.

In an emergency graduates without further teaching quals could easily be hired to replace the work shy ASTI members.

28-10-2020 11:35pm

KaneToad wrote: »

I think I'd support them too. Their demands aren't that outrageous.

They gave away the moral high ground when they included a demand for a pay rise at the time when hundreds of thousands are off work as a result of Covid.

Rodney Bathgate · 28-10-2020 11:36pm

Dav010 wrote: »

They gave away the moral high ground when they included a demand for a pay rise at the time when hundreds of thousands are off work as a result of Covid.

Sickening.

History Queen · 28-10-2020 11:38pm

Iscreamkone wrote: »

In an emergency graduates without further teaching qualms could easily be hired to replace the work shy ASTI members.

The ASTI members aren't workshy. I don't know what you mean by "without further teaching qualms"? What graduates are you going to hire? We've unqualified teachers hired this year to plug gaps and we are still short. Seeing as half my school (ASTI) members are now being fired according to you, how are we going to keep the school going?

Sorry just see you edited to quals (i assume qualifications). Rest of my post still stands

Eleven Benevolent Elephants · 28-10-2020 11:38pm

We need someone like Thatcher or Regan to smash the unions.

Any teacher who strikes should be sacked and banned from rejoining the public sector.

thomasdylan · 28-10-2020 11:39pm

Smacruairi wrote: »

You know that nurses unions and junior doctors both threatened industrial action in the past few years right?

There has been one strike by junior doctors in the past 25 years I think. It lasted half a day, emergency services were still maintained and it was to reduce the maximum shifts that could be rostered to 24 hours.

Icemancometh · 28-10-2020 11:40pm

thomasdylan wrote: »

There has been one strike by junior doctors in the past 25 years I think. It lasted half a day, emergency services were still maintained and it was to reduce the maximum shifts that could be rostered to 24 hours.

A strike for less pay.

History Queen · 28-10-2020 11:40pm

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

We need someone like Thatcher or Regan to smash the unions.

Any teacher who strikes should be sacked and banned from rejoining the public sector.

Do you actually understand the role unions have played in our society? If you are a worker you should not be looking for unions to be smashed.

As regards sacking teachers for striking, how do you propose to keep the education sector going?

ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

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