Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Stephen15 · 07-11-2018 3:25pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think we all understand in the working environment that we'll have situations for a few hours where going to the toilet is difficult. The issue for me here is the complete lack of shelter / toilet provisions for staff working 12 hour shifts. How could anyone thing that's acceptable? How did the NTA sign off on Go Ahead's operational readiness without this being in place?

But DB don't have those facilities either in many cases so it's not like GAI are unique in that sense. If we waited until we had the perfect situation every time something new was to be implemented we'd get nowhere teething problems are inevitable GAI are meant to be working on something in DL.

punisher5112 · 07-11-2018 4:48pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

But DB don't have those facilities either in many cases so it's not like GAI are unique in that sense. If we waited until we had the perfect situation every time something new was to be implemented we'd get nowhere teething problems are inevitable GAI are meant to be working on something in DL.

Ah here they have had plenty of time.

Would aib or the likes of Google etc etc set up and say oh by the way there is a box and and a laptop you work away there but provide your own facilities but you can't work from home.

Stop making excuses for them they are a huge company who are quick to state such and that they are hugely experienced etc etc.

Db has everything in place already from Depot to maintenance etc.

I am annoyed at how people expect drivers to work in such conditions and db drivers, be etc should ha e facilities provided such as a basic toilet and wash basin at strategic places.

LuckyLloyd · 07-11-2018 5:38pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

But DB don't have those facilities either in many cases so it's not like GAI are unique in that sense. If we waited until we had the perfect situation every time something new was to be implemented we'd get nowhere teething problems are inevitable GAI are meant to be working on something in DL.

Excuse me, when do DB expect a worker to put in a 12 hour shift without a place to have a sandwich or go to the toilet?

Stephen15 · 07-11-2018 5:59pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Excuse me, when do DB expect a worker to put in a 12 hour shift without a place to have a sandwich or go to the toilet?

But there are plenty of places to use the toilets in Dun Laoghaire. Public toilets in the library, the People's Park, the shopping centre, McDonald's and in Bloomfields.

MJohnston · 07-11-2018 5:59pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Excuse me, when do DB expect a worker to put in a 12 hour shift without a place to have a sandwich or go to the toilet?

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say "without a place to bring a sandwich to eat or go to the toilet for free?" - because as your post is worded, those two definitely exist in Dun Laoghaire.

Stephen15 · 07-11-2018 6:10pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Ah here they have had plenty of time.

Would aib or the likes of Google etc etc set up and say oh by the way there is a box and and a laptop you work away there but provide your own facilities but you can't work from home.

Stop making excuses for them they are a huge company who are quick to state such and that they are hugely experienced etc etc.

Db has everything in place already from Depot to maintenance etc.

I am annoyed at how people expect drivers to work in such conditions and db drivers, be etc should ha e facilities provided such as a basic toilet and wash basin at strategic places.

It's a bit different compared working on the move compared to a company which has fixed buildings do you not think would be drivers would have thought that before applying. Also not all DB breaks afaik are taken in the depot.

I'm not making excuses for them all I'm saying is that they may have teething issues which has been apparent for the last couple of weeks. I hope these issues are only teething problems and they're sorted out when they take over more batches of routes.

Yes agree there should be facilities provided but only where a lack of facilities currently exist DL is not one of these places.

punisher5112 · 07-11-2018 7:33pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

It's a bit different compared working on the move compared to a company which has fixed buildings do you not think would be drivers would have thought that before applying. Also not all DB breaks afaik are taken in the depot.

I'm not making excuses for them all I'm saying is that they may have teething issues which has been apparent for the last couple of weeks. I hope these issues are only teething problems and they're sorted out when they take over more batches of routes.

Yes agree there should be facilities provided but only where a lack of facilities currently exist DL is not one of these places.

In dun Laoghaire though there is an issue a driver can be there before opening and after closing of all these places.

They will need to sort something out or buses will be late all the time as it takes time to get to any of these facilities you mention.

I believe we should be looking at the London model where 6 million is being spent on toilets for drivers.

Some of these facilities are existing already just not enough where as the now sitting mayor is fixing it.

Here we go · 07-11-2018 7:42pm

From what Iv been told go ahead are currently fitting out a rest room/canteen area in DL and 15€ vouchers for the coffee shop in DL are avalible at the depot for drivers so they can sit in and eat and use facilities as paying customers with no cost to driver

soundman45 · 07-11-2018 8:39pm

Here we go wrote: »

From what Iv been told go ahead are currently fitting out a rest room/canteen area in DL and 15€ vouchers for the coffee shop in DL are avalible at the depot for drivers so they can sit in and eat and use facilities as paying customers with no cost to driver

This is in fact correct. But dont let the truth ruin a good story.

Tarabuses · 07-11-2018 9:20pm

soundman45 wrote: »

This is in fact correct. But dont let the truth ruin a good story.

Someone needs to tell Dave_Dublin.

dublinman1990 · 07-11-2018 9:37pm

I had seen of the ex DB GT's out in Marine Road; Dun Laoghaire today. It was 11901. It was Not in Service presumably on route training or going back to Ballymount Garage. The bus is now painted in the updated NTA livery with the yellow front. GAI have the new streetlites on the 111 but still not on the 59 yet.

punisher5112 · 07-11-2018 10:44pm

Seen a new street lite with faulty rear brake lights yesterday on 111.

Do they do a 1st bus check????

Stephen15 · 07-11-2018 10:44pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I had seen of the ex DB GT's out in Marine Road; Dun Laoghaire today. It was 11901. It was Not in Service presumably on route training or going back to Ballymount Garage. The bus is now painted in the updated NTA livery with the yellow front. GAI have the new streetlites on the 111 but still not on the 59 yet.

They won't be on the 59 from what I believe as they're too long for the roundabout in Killiney Village.

punisher5112 · 07-11-2018 10:49pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

They won't be on the 59 from what I believe as they're too long for the roundabout in Killiney Village.

Doesn't surprise me at all. Wv, av, ax and ev all fit around no issue.

Easiest to get around was the EV.

Stephen15 · 07-11-2018 10:50pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

In dun Laoghaire though there is an issue a driver can be there before opening and after closing of all these places.

They will need to sort something out or buses will be late all the time as it takes time to get to any of these facilities you mention.

I believe we should be looking at the London model where 6 million is being spent on toilets for drivers.

Some of these facilities are existing already just not enough where as the now sitting mayor is fixing it.

I guess so but perhaps they could minimise this by having breaking during the day as much as possible as has been said they are fitting out a facility for drivers hopefully that's in or near the DART station rather than in the town to minimise walking distance causing delays.

The thing about providing toilets for drivers while it's a good thing these would require planning permission which it they might not get to put them everywhere where they are needed and it could be a while before they could be implemented while objections are listened to.

dfx- · 08-11-2018 11:59am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think we all understand in the working environment that we'll have situations for a few hours where going to the toilet is difficult. The issue for me here is the complete lack of shelter / toilet provisions for staff working 12 hour shifts. How could anyone thing that's acceptable? How did the NTA sign off on Go Ahead's operational readiness without this being in place?

It once again all comes back to what they said on how ready they were in that (hidden) original tender award. Did anyone in the NTA process ask about fitting out facilities for drivers? Did they care?

How long is it since it was awarded and in the best case scenario, they are still fitting out a canteen according to Here we go - is it a year? What have they been doing?

CramCycle · 08-11-2018 12:05pm

In regards DL, are there not facilities for IR staff there? Can the NTA not look into accessing these?

punisher5112 · 08-11-2018 12:08pm

CramCycle wrote: »

In regards DL, are there not facilities for IR staff there? Can the NTA not look into accessing these?

Why would Irish rail provide for a private company.

They removed the public toilets as drug addicts and thugs were destroying them.

It's up to the government and operators to start something and get facilities put in for drivers across the city.

CramCycle · 08-11-2018 12:15pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why would Irish rail provide for a private company.

They removed the public toilets as drug addicts and thugs were destroying them.

It's up to the government and operators to start something and get facilities put in for drivers across the city.

I didn't say give, i said look into accessing them. CIE is state owned, the NTA is also state run. Surely there is a simple solution in there.
So are there staff toilets and break areas in DL for IR staff?

This would be me pointing out what you are saying, the government should do something.
Provide a small amount extra to IR for specifically cleaning and maintaining the higher usage of the facilities, if they are there, for the increased amount of use.
The only people who would object to this are those who just want to be awkward.
To be fair to GAI, if the previous posts are true, they are doing more than DB to provide for the drivers, but maybe the pay difference makes it palatable for the DB drivers.
This is, at some endpoints, an easily solvable issue, that the dept of tourism...... should simply order via CIE and the NTA

goingnowhere · 08-11-2018 12:52pm

Just from a very pedantic view, Irish Rail own little or no property, that is all vested in CIE.

CIE does not have an contract with the NTA, the contracts are with the subsidiary companies only.

So the NTA can't twist any arms in DL or elsewhere.

soundman45 · 08-11-2018 12:52pm

I just dont get how hung up people are about drivers facilities, yes of course I think GA should and will provide them but stop and think of all the transport companies in the country ie DHL,TNT,UPS, Callinan Coaches, Matthews, Nolan Transport, Dixon Transport etc etc etc. What do these guys do????. Simple they go in somewhere buy a coffee use the facilities and carry on with life.

markpb · 08-11-2018 12:59pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Just from a very pedantic view, Irish Rail own little or no property, that is all vested in CIE.

CIE does not have an contract with the NTA, the contracts are with the subsidiary companies only.

So the NTA can't twist any arms in DL or elsewhere.

Who appoints the board of CIE?

dfx- · 08-11-2018 1:08pm

CramCycle wrote: »

I didn't say give, i said look into accessing them. CIE is state owned, the NTA is also state run. Surely there is a simple solution in there.
So are there staff toilets and break areas in DL for IR staff?

This would be me pointing out what you are saying, the government should do something.
Provide a small amount extra to IR for specifically cleaning and maintaining the higher usage of the facilities, if they are there, for the increased amount of use.
The only people who would object to this are those who just want to be awkward.
To be fair to GAI, if the previous posts are true, they are doing more than DB to provide for the drivers, but maybe the pay difference makes it palatable for the DB drivers.
This is, at some endpoints, an easily solvable issue, that the dept of tourism...... should simply order via CIE and the NTA

GA should be expected to provide this themselves. It should be in their contract with the NTA for them to do it just like the depot provision.

We are supposed to be getting away from the old ways of government/political interventions.

Dave_Dublin · 08-11-2018 2:57pm

Here we go wrote: »

From what Iv been told go ahead are currently fitting out a rest room/canteen area in DL and 15€ vouchers for the coffee shop in DL are avalible at the depot for drivers so they can sit in and eat and use facilities as paying customers with no cost to driver

Those vouchers were given out on ONE weekend in October by a supervisor in D.L. and then the remainder were given to drivers who'd be working the 13-hour shifts the following days.

They are NOT available "at the depot" as you say.

. . . . .

D.B. drivers have a room in D.L. DART station to sit and have a break with toilet facilities. G.A.I. drivers are not permitted to access this room.

punisher5112 · 08-11-2018 3:28pm

Dave_Dublin wrote: »

Those vouchers were given out on ONE weekend in October by a supervisor in D.L. and then the remainder were given to drivers who'd be working the 13-hour shifts the following days.

They are NOT available "at the depot" as you say.

. . . . .

D.B. drivers have a room in D.L. DART station to sit and have a break with toilet facilities. G.A.I. drivers are not permitted to access this room.

That's no longer available as there are no routes breaking there anymore.

Toilet is still available.

On the point asked above by a poster the canteen for ir staff is tiny.

46a drivers luckily still have access to toilet and only right.

As I've mentioned I'm a driver and drive cross city and routes I drive have no toilets at either end.

With the colder weather I'm finding I need to go more often and on many occasions I wouldn't make it to any garage or facilities as they are so far away from route terminus.....

I like the London method and we really need to look at it.

Stephen15 · 08-11-2018 5:56pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

That's no longer available as there are no routes breaking there anymore.

Toilet is still available.

On the point asked above by a poster the canteen for ir staff is tiny.

46a drivers luckily still have access to toilet and only right.

As I've mentioned I'm a driver and drive cross city and routes I drive have no toilets at either end.

With the colder weather I'm finding I need to go more often and on many occasions I wouldn't make it to any garage or facilities as they are so far away from route terminus.....

I like the London method and we really need to look at it.

So basically the room is lying idle apart from the jax. No reason why Go-Ahead couldn't pay rent to DB or IE whoever owns the room to allow their drivers break there and use the jax. I thinks riddiculous that DB or GAI on the 7 or 111 can't use the toilets provided in Bride's Glen for Luas drivers I believe this was rejected by SIPTU represented Luas drivers. The blue pool in Monkstown let's 4 drivers use the toilet there as I have witnessed drivers go in there to use the toilet.

I wouldn't say there any more than 5 IE staff based in DL as there is only ever one member of staff in the ticket office and a small number of DARTs terminate there.

CramCycle · 08-11-2018 7:29pm

dfx- wrote: »

GA should be expected to provide this themselves. It should be in their contract with the NTA for them to do it just like the depot provision.

We are supposed to be getting away from the old ways of government/political interventions.

You are of course correct but in a world where there are multiple operators running, it makes sense to either have shared facilities run by the overarching body or for the current owners to make them available at market rates.

The issue here once again relies at the foot of the NTA, they should have either specified it in the tender, or insured that based on the routes rendered that such facilities were available.

The idea that SIPTU drivers could stop access to a toilet facility says it all really, how is that even a union issue? Unless it was owned by Transfection, then it should have been opened by the NTA to all staff under their remit.

Cookie_Monster · 08-11-2018 8:33pm

dfx- wrote: »

GA should be expected to provide this themselves. It should be in their contract with the NTA for them to do it just like the depot provision.

why, that just leads to pointless, expensive duplication of facilities. The NTA should be providing them for all, mixed if they need to be too.
If the companies change in future it means no impact to facilities as well.

Stephen15 · 09-11-2018 4:53pm

DB looking for drivers. I wonder will Go-Ahead start to struggle to retain staff now.

dashcamdanny · 10-11-2018 12:57pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

DB looking for drivers. I wonder will Go-Ahead start to struggle to retain staff now.

I think they might lose a few , but the 2k bond is a real anchor for them.

Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

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