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John kerr 1855 where is he?

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    #32
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Did you not get that marriage cert to check if it was their marriage cert, if it is you'll get a lot more information, same for a birth cert for 1 or 2 of the kids, I often get the oldest and the youngest birth certs, if the addresses are the same then it'd grand, if they aren't i'll get the middle childs birth cert and keep going either side until I figure out when they moved to an address, your not really going to be able to get anymore about him until you get his marriage cert and possibly check out his death notice in a local paper if you know when he died


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    #33
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Does John have any other names, there are a few John Kerrs born around 1855...


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    #34
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Well no. I ordered a marriage certificate about two weeks ago for another family and all it said was the father and nothing about the mother. So say the fathers john then its going to be pretty hard to find him. I have no single idea as to where John is from at all. Im not sure what to do. Do you think there will be extra information on one of john kerrs children? Would his parents be on that?


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    #35
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dido2 wrote: »
    Does John have any other names, there are a few John Kerrs born around 1855...

    Im not sure. I seen that on rootsireland.ie but you have to pay. I think theres two possibilities:

    1. Clogher.
    2. Donaghedy (a parish near new buildings)


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    #36
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Well if one of them Married in the church they were also baptised in there might be a baptism record too....

    Even aside from that their addresses at the time of marriage might give you more of a clue along with the occupation of their fathers aswell...


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    #37
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Do you know if he was ever in the Military?


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    #38
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dido2 wrote: »
    Well if one of them Married in the church they were also baptised in there might be a baptism record too....

    Even aside from that their addresses at the time of marriage might give you more of a clue along with the occupation of their fathers aswell...

    So the marriage certificate actually has an address on it. Oh thats great. So say for example i find that hes from clogher and his father is called john. What do I do then?


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    #39
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dido2 wrote: »
    Do you know if he was ever in the Military?

    I dont think so. He was a farmer and a grocer.


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    #40
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Oh your right it does say "residence at time of marriage" and "fathers name and surname". Thats great.

    I notice on the emerald ancestors site a sudden change of marriages in clogher from church of ireland to roman catholic around 1870. Maybe it was johns father who converted.


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    #41
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    owenc wrote: »
    So the marriage certificate actually has an address on it. Oh thats great. So say for example i find that hes from clogher and his father is called john. What do I do then?

    Yeah they have an address for bride and groom, so if you get the marriage cert and it says John is his father then you can then narrow down any John Kerrs with fathers John, sometimes you can eliminate some possibles via Ancestry etc where others have posted family trees or in the case of on John Kerrs theres a military record for him so bit by bit you can narrow him down, once you've narrowed it down contact any churches you possibly think he could have been baptised in, and ask them to check the baptism records to see if any have a marriage entry in the baptism page where John Kerr Married a Catherine Mellon...

    Always have a paper trail for each generation, prove your information, theres always someone who will doubt you, so ideally you'd have your grandmothers birth and marriage cert, then here parents marriage certs along with your grandfathers parents marriage certs then if possible the parents birth certs too!


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    #42
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Meant to say also the witnesses to the marriage can provide clues too as to which family they belong to if they were siblings to either the bride or groom


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    #43
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dido2 wrote: »
    Yeah they have an address for bride and groom, so if you get the marriage cert and it says John is his father then you can then narrow down any John Kerrs with fathers John, sometimes you can eliminate some possibles via Ancestry etc where others have posted family trees or in the case of on John Kerrs theres a military record for him so bit by bit you can narrow him down, once you've narrowed it down contact any churches you possibly think he could have been baptised in, and ask them to check the baptism records to see if any have a marriage entry in the baptism page where John Kerr Married a Catherine Mellon...

    Always have a paper trail for each generation, prove your information, theres always someone who will doubt you, so ideally you'd have your grandmothers birth and marriage cert, then here parents marriage certs along with your grandfathers parents marriage certs then if possible the parents birth certs too!

    Yes, I made a major mistake in another tree so I will be taking extra precautions this time. I think I will order the marriage certificate and see from there. The only problem is that online there are no records on emerald ancestry to 1855 for a john kerr which means I need to look at microfilmed church records and im not sure what religion he was baptised or even what church.


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    #44
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    I've had good success with emailing different churches to ask them to check dates so it might be possible once you at least have a fathers name......

    Theres a
    John Kerr baptised on Londonderry in 1854

    John Kerr Londondeerry, 7 Apr 1854 Parents: John, Martha

    Samuel John Kerr 10 Sep 1856 Presbyterian, Dromara, Down, Ireland Parent:John, Mary

    William John Kerr 5 Mar 1858 Dromore Parish, Down, Ireland Archibald, Mary

    Joseph John Kerr 27 Feb 1859 Drummond, Parish of Clonfecle, Tyr, Ireland James, Sarah

    John Alexander Kerr 16 Jul 1858 Dromore Parish, Down, Ireland John Alexander, Emma Victoria


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    #45
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dido2 wrote: »
    I've had good success with emailing different churches to ask them to check dates so it might be possible once you at least have a fathers name......

    Theres a
    John Kerr baptised on Londonderry in 1854

    John Kerr Londondeerry, 7 Apr 1854 Parents: John, Martha

    Samuel John Kerr 10 Sep 1856 Presbyterian, Dromara, Down, Ireland Parent:John, Mary

    William John Kerr 5 Mar 1858 Dromore Parish, Down, Ireland Archibald, Mary

    Joseph John Kerr 27 Feb 1859 Drummond, Parish of Clonfecle, Tyr, Ireland James, Sarah

    John Alexander Kerr 16 Jul 1858 Dromore Parish, Down, Ireland John Alexander, Emma Victoria

    Yes, I have done that before. Thank you for the records.

    It says on census he is from tyrone and he married in tyrone so I doubt he is the two county londonderry ones. I guess I will have to find the marriage certificate. Just one last question? Do you have any tips as to the whereabouts of george phillips? I cannot find him anywhere? Is william another name for george?


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    #46
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    I've had people be from 2 different places on both census's so like everything else I don't take it as being 100% accurate unless I see the proof!!!

    Is the John Kerr Publican your John Kerr??


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    #47
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dido2 wrote: »
    I've had people be from 2 different places on both census's so like everything else I don't take it as being 100% accurate unless I see the proof!!!

    Is the John Kerr Publican your John Kerr??

    Erm yes I think he owned a bar yes.


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    #48
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Was it before or after the 2 Census?? He's listed as a Carpenter in 1901 and a Farmer & General Merchant for the 1911 census, if he owned the pub after 1911 or before 1901 it would help narrow down George Philips.


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    #49
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dido2 wrote: »
    Was it before or after the 2 Census?? He's listed as a Carpenter in 1901 and a Farmer & General Merchant for the 1911 census, if he owned the pub after 1911 or before 1901 it would help narrow down George Philips.

    Well im not sure but I think maybe at 1911 because in the 1911 there is a samuel mcivor living with them.

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Glendermot/Ballyore/605273/

    Maybe the house they are living in is the pub.


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    #50
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    It looks like it's the same house in both census, if it were a pub it would probably mention he was a publican in the census


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    #51
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dido2 wrote: »
    It looks like it's the same house in both census, if it were a pub it would probably mention he was a publican in the census

    Well I dont know then. Ive checked all the wills and there are no George phillips wills in my county or tyrone and he probably died in 1900 something.


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    #52
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Did any of John Kerrs children marry around 1911, if so one of their marriage certs might indicate if he was a publican or not, or any of their marriage certs for that matter, if nothing lists him as a publican then there would be no reason to believe his John Kerr the publican...


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    #53
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dido2 wrote: »
    Did any of John Kerrs children marry around 1911, if so one of their marriage certs might indicate if he was a publican or not, or any of their marriage certs for that matter, if nothing lists him as a publican then there would be no reason to believe his John Kerr the publican...

    But that is definately him though as it is in my family that they owned a bar and that jane kerr his daughter was a teacher. She was very religious and she was the one who donated that money to the church. So im sure. I think maybe what happened is that george phillips died after 1920.

    Theres just something odd about it.


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    #54
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    What if they did buy the bar after 1911?


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    #55
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Alright ordered the marriage certificate off the Rootireland.ie site

    screenshot20130511at124.png

    the fact that it says hes born in 1858 is making it even more confusing. I am beginning to think that John Kerrs mum is not phillips.


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    #56
    tanoralover
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭tanoralover


    Patrick Carr and Patrick Mellon were both in Aghafad at the time of Griffiths Valuation so chances are both John and Catherine were baptised there.


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    #57
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    tanoralover wrote: »
    Patrick Carr and Patrick Mellon were both in Aghafad at the time of Griffiths Valuation so chances are both John and Catherine were baptised there.

    Yes I noticed that, I think I will have to email the Catholic church there and see what they've got. I'm not sure about that area at all as it is around 60 miles from my home. If you are from that area do you know much about the Kerrs locally?

    I will look more into these Kerrs of Aughafad (really odd name).

    Is Carr the Irish version of Kerr? I thought that maybe the Kerrs were converts but i'm now beginning to think not, I mean Protestants would not really call their kids Patrick.


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    #58
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    There is also a Patrick Kerr in Blackfort Donacavey
    http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/tyrone/donacavey.htm


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    #59
    tanoralover
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭tanoralover


    owenc wrote: »
    If you are from that area do you know much about the Kerrs locally?

    Sorry, can't help you there but I found a death record for Patrick Kerr b. 1808 d. 1878. I'm not sure if this is John's father of grandfather.

    His will is here. Executors were James McCartin and Philip Cambell of Aghafad.


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    #60
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    tanoralover wrote: »
    Sorry, can't help you there but I found a death record for Patrick Kerr b. 1808 d. 1878. I'm not sure if this is John's father of grandfather.

    His will is here. Executors were James McCartin and Philip Cambell of Aghafad.

    Ok thank you. Will check that out.


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    #61
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    I wouldn't take too much notice of his age, I tend to go 10 years either side of an age when looking for someone, after I found both the death record and burial record for my Great Great grandfather and there was 15 years of a difference in his age between both records!!! The ones where the person actually gives the information themselves like their age at the time of their marriage I would usually go by then, or if the ages on the census match up I'd go loosely by them too..

    I would think at this stage the church will be your best bet in finding his birth record


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