Deceased wealthy people estate values published in the newspapers

BrianD3 · 20-09-2020 11:11am #1

Seeing as many are obsessed with what other people earn/have, I see in today's paper that Peter Sutherland left 2 million in his will. Estate values are public information from the Probate Office.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/former-political-figure-and-one-time-advisor-to-the-pope-peter-sutherland-leaves-2m-in-will-39545170.html

The Indo is attempting an angle with the comment that Sutherland was once said to be worth 153 million. There's probably people delighted that by the time he died he was only worth 2 million. AFAIK this only covers Irish assets which could be a small part of a person's actual wealth. Also, assets held in joint names often do not need probate. Also, someone may transfer large amounts to family members before death, or shock horror, give large amounts to charity.

Some other estate values that have appeared in the media over the years

Garret Fitzgerald - 86k.
Brian Lenihan Jnr - 368k
Derek Davis - 170k
Rick Parfitt from Status Quo - 240k GBP, UK probate
George Harrison - 99 million GBP, UK probate
George Michael - 98 million GBP, UK probate
Mickey Rooney - 18k USD, US probate

looksee · 20-09-2020 11:17am

Goodness, that isn't even the price of a house in most cases!

Yes, of course, it doesn't take account of jointly held properties.

BrianD3 · 20-09-2020 11:27am

looksee wrote: »

Goodness, that isn't even the price of a house in most cases!

Yes, of course, it doesn't take account of jointly held properties.

It's a few years since i filled in a probate form but I just remembered that there was a section on it for jointly held assets. Not sure if half etc. of these would then be counted as part of the deceased's estate.

If everything is in joint names then no probate is needed so no need to go through the process at all.

Rodney Bathgate · 20-09-2020 11:36am

He seems to have had a history of offshore account usage so wouldn’t be surprised if that was still the case at his death.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/offshore-account-was-used-to-secure-sutherland-s-house-loan-1.244299%3fmode=amp

riclad · 20-09-2020 2:20pm

Its very easy for the rich to transfer money to shell companys in luxembourg and other countrys which mean the irish revenue would have no knowledge of someones wealth if they worked in countrys outside ireland.The rich can afford to employ accountants and tax experts to transfer
money to minimise their tax bill .this is legal under eu law

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/100115/why-luxembourg-considered-tax-haven.asp
i,m just saying the probate office may not have acess to financial data some people who worked abroad who may have assets outside ireland.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 20-09-2020 2:20pm

Garret Fitzgerald’s estate is quite low for such a prominent figure. That would just be the money he left though, right?

BrianD3 · 20-09-2020 2:49pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Garret Fitzgerald’s estate is quite low for such a prominent figure. That would just be the money he left though, right?

He got into serious financial difficulty, had debts of 200k written off by AIB and also apparently sold the family home. Still, he was probably transferring assets before his death. His pension in his later years would have been about 150k gross per year.

Stovepipe · 20-09-2020 4:14pm

Suds only left Eu2M behind him? To use that great Irish phrase, he did in his hole. Riclad's post sums it up in a nutshell.

Zebra3 · 20-09-2020 6:25pm

BrianD3 wrote: »

Seeing as many are obsessed with what other people earn/have, I see in today's paper that Peter Sutherland left 2 million in his will. Estate values are public information from the Probate Office.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/former-political-figure-and-one-time-advisor-to-the-pope-peter-sutherland-leaves-2m-in-will-39545170.html

The Indo is attempting an angle with the comment that Sutherland was once said to be worth 153 million. There's probably people delighted that by the time he died he was only worth 2 million. AFAIK this only covers Irish assets which could be a small part of a person's actual wealth. Also, assets held in joint names often do not need probate. Also, someone may transfer large amounts to family members before death, or shock horror, give large amounts to charity.

Some other estate values that have appeared in the media over the years

Garret Fitzgerald - 86k.
Brian Lenihan Jnr - 368k
Derek Davis - 170k
Rick Parfitt from Status Quo - 240k GBP, UK probate
George Harrison - 99 million GBP, UK probate
George Michael - 98 million GBP, UK probate
Mickey Rooney - 18k USD, US probate

Taxes are for the little people.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 20-09-2020 7:12pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Suds only left Eu2M behind him? To use that great Irish phrase, he did in his hole. Riclad's post sums it up in a nutshell.

No, it was definitely in his will he left it.

Rodney Bathgate · 20-09-2020 7:16pm

He probably gave the rest of his fortune to the people smugglers, to get thousands more from Africa into the EU illegally.

retalivity · 20-09-2020 8:18pm

I cant believe george michael left as much as george harrison

Leg End Reject · 20-09-2020 8:52pm

Imagine dying and leaving nearly 100 million unspent!

Oh to be wealthy ...

Allinall · 20-09-2020 8:55pm

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Imagine dying and leaving nearly 100 million unspent!

Oh to be wealthy ...

You’re right.

I certainly won’t be doing it.

Allinall · 20-09-2020 8:57pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Taxes are for the little people.

What have taxes got to do with it?

Leg End Reject · 20-09-2020 8:58pm

Allinall wrote: »

You’re right.

I certainly won’t be doing it.

I'll never have a million, never mind 100m. It seems such a waste to let it build up over your life so it's taxed after your death.

ILoveYourVibes · 20-09-2020 9:01pm

How much did Charlie Haughey leave?

ILoveYourVibes · 20-09-2020 9:02pm

You would wonder how accurate these are and how much is to avoid inheritance tax?

There is no way sutherland left only 2 million

Guy:Incognito · 20-09-2020 9:02pm

retalivity wrote: »

I cant believe george michael left as much as george harrison

I googled and picked the first one I saw but going with an american inflation adjusting calculator $100m in 2001 would be $137m in 2016

BrianD3 · 20-09-2020 9:06pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

How much did Charlie Haughey leave?

About 1 million but his wife left about 9 million.

Liam Cosgrove left 33 million - mainly due to the value of the family home and land in Dublin.

amacca · 20-09-2020 9:07pm

Allinall wrote: »

What have taxes got to do with it?

The less you can get away with declaring the less tax you will have to pay

Wealthy on the ball people have tax avoidance specialist accountants working for them exploiting every loophole, scheme there is.... and grey areas in some cases

Its usually perfectly legal if occasionally morally questionable, if they get good advice it usually costs but you save a lot more in tax you can avoid.....if you get bad ones you get taken advantage of

Add that to the likelihood that most of those people will have transferred assets to partners, sons, daughters loved ones in as tax efficient means as possible before their deaths and you are not looking at their true wealth in that report

Even the 100m ones probably had lots more buried somewhere out of sight of the taxman.

Spanish Eyes · 20-09-2020 9:07pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

How much did Charlie Haughey leave?

I doubt it was much since he gifted most of his land to his four kids while he was alive. They are minted now on our backs as we know now.

Anyway who cares anymore. Just to stay Covid Free is a bonus these days.

And remember the wealthy have the best in the business advising them. For a small fee!

ILoveYourVibes · 20-09-2020 9:08pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I doubt it was much since he gifted most of his land to his four kids while he was alive. They are minted now on our backs as we know now.

Anyway who cares anymore. Just to stay Covid Free is a bonus these days.

And remember the wealthy have the best in the business advising them. For a small fee!

AH FECK!

I care ...i care a lot! :mad:

Zebra3 · 20-09-2020 9:17pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

How much did Charlie Haughey leave?

Debt to be written off?

IAMAMORON · 20-09-2020 9:29pm

As far as I am aware details of discretionary trusts are private?

ILoveYourVibes · 20-09-2020 9:32pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

As far as I am aware details of discretionary trusts are private?

You can pretty much work it out when you see how someone lives though.

I mean yer haughey's young wans live pretty flash!

IAMAMORON · 20-09-2020 9:38pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You can pretty much work it out when you see how someone lives though.

I mean yer haughey's young wans live pretty flash!

I dunno, old money tends to live modestly enough?

ILoveYourVibes · 20-09-2020 9:39pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I dunno, old money tends to live modestly enough?

They NOT old money! They trash!:mad:

I think its a myth old money lives modestly ..have you seen the tories?

Also there is a diff between ....not having to work and being rich.

A lot of old money ..is not rich ..its just not having to work ..if they are careful ..they can't afford to live flash tho.

yaknowski · 20-09-2020 9:45pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I dunno, old money tends to live modestly enough?

Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations. Haughey's grandkids won't appreciate the hard work he put in to rob and con his way to the wealth.

IAMAMORON · 20-09-2020 9:47pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They NOT old money! They trash!:mad:

I think its a myth old money lives modestly ..have you seen the tories?

Also there is a diff between ....not having to work and being rich.

A lot of old money ..is not rich ..its just not having to work ..if they are careful ..they can't afford to live flash tho.

I don't think it is all that straightforward tbh. But any old money that I know tend to not be so engaged in their wealth. They are more likely to be less flashy with their money, particularly as they mature.

Money makes money.

ILoveYourVibes · 20-09-2020 9:54pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Money makes money.

True. Its why i hate this pull yourself up lark...if you have nothing to begin with tis not likely.

IAMAMORON · 20-09-2020 10:01pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

True. Its why i hate this pull yourself up lark...if you have nothing to begin with tis not likely.

Not everyone is designed around making money.

But you should aim to prosper, ambition is healthy.

Zebra3 · 20-09-2020 10:25pm

yaknowski wrote: »

Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations. Haughey's grandkids won't appreciate the hard work he out in to rob and con his way to the wealth.

Ah come on!!

Haughey didn't put hard work into robbing people!!

The likes of Cahill and Hutch did!!

Haughey just bullied people, not dissimilar to Delaney.

Spanish Eyes · 20-09-2020 11:20pm

Haughey Senior was a crook and his children benefited mightily with no issues. That's OK so isn't it?

blinding · 20-09-2020 11:25pm

I ‘ll leave ye all something ~ ~ ~ debt ! !

bobbyy gee · 20-09-2020 11:28pm

when i die i am leaving 100 euro total for drinks
and a fur coat for my mistress
my children will get nothing

Rodney Bathgate · 20-09-2020 11:28pm

I have a safe deposit box. I have left a ‘brown surprise’ for whoever gets their hands on the contents when I die.

blinding · 20-09-2020 11:30pm

bobbyy gee wrote: »

when i die i am leaving 100 euro total for drinks
and a fur coat for my mistress
my children will get nothing

Thanks , thats grand for myself !

Spanish Eyes · 20-09-2020 11:32pm

The millions that the family inherited were from dodgy dealings, we all know that now.

But thankfully they keep a low profile and none of them are heading for FF office in a General Election.

Sickening when you think about it, but have to let it go now as nothing will come of being angry or disgusted anymore.

Rodney Bathgate · 20-09-2020 11:40pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The millions that the family inherited were from dodgy dealings, we all know that now.

But thankfully they keep a low profile and none of them are heading for FF office in a General Election.

Sickening when you think about it, but have to let it go now as nothing will come of being angry or disgusted anymore.

Eh... Seán Haughey (son of Charles) has been a TD for years....previously a Senator and Lord Mayor of Dublin.

bobbyy gee · 20-09-2020 11:46pm

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Eh... Seán Haughey (son of Charles) has been a TD for years....previously a Senator and Lord Mayor of Dublin.

only loans

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/conor-haughey-s-inauspicious-business-venture-1.275634?mode=amp

IAMAMORON · 20-09-2020 11:48pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Haughey Senior was a crook and his children benefited mightily with no issues. That's OK so isn't it?

Fine by me tbh.

He actually wasn't technically a " crook " either.

There is no crime in receiving money off someone.

EmmetSpiceland · 20-09-2020 11:59pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Fine by me tbh.

He actually wasn't technically a " crook " either.

There is no crime in receiving money off someone.

Are there not tax “implications”, I?

bobbyy gee · 21-09-2020 12:36am

bribes

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/dec/20/ireland

IAMAMORON · 21-09-2020 12:54am

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Are there not tax “implications”, I?

It depends Spice.

I mean if you gave me million quid for nothing... well yes I would have been entitled to pay 20% CAT ( mid 80's I think, 33% in the morning ).

But if I took it as shares in a chain of off site petrol stations or a retail unit set up specifically with an IDA grant or a feeder loan for a start up for An Bord Coillte , etc etc etc. Things change then.

I think you get where this argument is going? But technically there is no law against receiving money off someone, as long as you can prove where it came from and you have a trail of where it goes ( if anywhere ).

The statute of limitations takes care of the rest. So if you lodged money, in say Antigua, during the cricket world cup in 2007.... the Irish Rev cannot really do jack shít about it now, unless they commenced an investigation specifically before 2014.

They can tax you however, if you declare it to them and also if you chose to introduce it back into the state.

There are other scenarios, but it is touching one in the morning, I have other things on, I watched Tarzan earlier and I simply cannot get Margot Robbie out of my dangerous mind.

But Charlie was not officially a crook. Check his criminal record. He paid the Rev 6.5 million, that's a lot of money by anyone standards. Even his.

Finally ( and it gets later by the minute ), I find it a bit nauseating that posters are still cribbing about the actions of Haughey, 14 years later. I mean , it cannot be solved now and furthermore if you look around it still goes on. The cloaks have gotten warmer and the daggers have gotten sharper, that is all.

21-09-2020 1:01am

Peter Sutherland was worth and estimated £35 mill way back in 1999.

And a sh1tload more by the time he died.

Probably closer to 200 mill than 2

Trusts etc definitely in use in this case

1990sman · 21-09-2020 1:36am

more lies and orchestrated dissent. like having a finger ur arse do ya?

tdf7187 · 21-09-2020 3:25am

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It depends Spice.

I mean if you gave me million quid for nothing... well yes I would have been entitled to pay 20% CAT ( mid 80's I think, 33% in the morning ).

But if I took it as shares in a chain of off site petrol stations or a retail unit set up specifically with an IDA grant or a feeder loan for a start up for An Bord Coillte , etc etc etc. Things change then.

I think you get where this argument is going? But technically there is no law against receiving money off someone, as long as you can prove where it came from and you have a trail of where it goes ( if anywhere ).

The statute of limitations takes care of the rest. So if you lodged money, in say Antigua, during the cricket world cup in 2007.... the Irish Rev cannot really do jack shít about it now, unless they commenced an investigation specifically before 2014.

They can tax you however, if you declare it to them and also if you chose to introduce it back into the state.

There are other scenarios, but it is touching one in the morning, I have other things on, I watched Tarzan earlier and I simply cannot get Margot Robbie out of my dangerous mind.

But Charlie was not officially a crook. Check his criminal record. He paid the Rev 6.5 million, that's a lot of money by anyone standards. Even his.

Finally ( and it gets later by the minute ), I find it a bit nauseating that posters are still cribbing about the actions of Haughey, 14 years later. I mean , it cannot be solved now and furthermore if you look around it still goes on. The cloaks have gotten warmer and the daggers have gotten sharper, that is all.

He was a crook who used the office he held to enrich himself. Anyone who can't see that is thick stupid. Simple as.

blinding · 21-09-2020 6:36am

glasso wrote: »

Peter Sutherland was worth and estimated £35 mill way back in 1999.

And a sh1tload more by the time he died.

Probably closer to 200 mill than 2

Trusts etc definitely in use in this case

Not bad for Selling Your Country ! ! I suppose that why he did it !

mariaalice · 21-09-2020 9:22am

The thing about Charlie haughty, looking at his circumstance an accountant and politician who ended up as Taoiseach, he married a well off a woman from a well off family, he never has a business of his own or another way of making money other than politics.

The trajectory of his life should have been a large house on the north side with its own grounds basically wealthy middle class, not the horses, not the yacht, instead of the island it would have been a holiday home in West Cork or Galway, not the Charvet shirts.

So therefore he acquired his lifestyle by deceit and that makes him a crook.

Cookie_Monster · 21-09-2020 9:29am

Shouldn't really be leaving anything substantial. Retire, spend it, enjoy it. No point holding it to give 40% or whatever it is to the govt...

Deceased wealthy people estate values published in the newspapers

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