Mac vrs PC for recording new updates wait or go PC?

me-skywalker · 18-09-2008 4:31pm #1

Please, need some help from ppl with knowledge on laptops and recording.

Ive been highly considering a Mac for home recording.
but there is new updates for the Mac due out in october problem is im getting impatient waiting and have been looking around at a PC laptop... the debate will rage on PC vrs Mac.

No if i was to get a PC im thinkin a toshiba a300d 4gb ram 250hardrive 2.1ghz
or possibly a HP as are a strong reliable laptop..

OR should i just keep my money and wait for the new macbooks in october?

thanks

dav nagle · 18-09-2008 4:51pm

me-skywalker wrote: »

Please, need some help from ppl with knowledge on laptops and recording.

Ive been highly considering a Mac for home recording.
but there is new updates for the Mac due out in october problem is im getting impatient waiting and have been looking around at a PC laptop... the debate will rage on PC vrs Mac.

No if i was to get a PC im thinkin a toshiba a300d 4gb ram 250hardrive 2.1ghz
or possibly a HP as are a strong reliable laptop..

OR should i just keep my money and wait for the new macbooks in october?

thanks

Move to mac never look back, it is simple. PC's are a frigging headache. I will probably get blasted by people who are offended but ask any pro mac all the way.. They don't use pc's in most studios for a very good reason.

condra · 18-09-2008 5:36pm

One word - Core Audio

*Smug Grin*

PaulBrewer · 18-09-2008 5:49pm

me-skywalker wrote: »

Please, need some help from ppl with knowledge on laptops and recording.

Ive been highly considering a Mac for home recording.
but there is new updates for the Mac due out in october problem is im getting impatient waiting and have been looking around at a PC laptop... the debate will rage on PC vrs Mac.

No if i was to get a PC im thinkin a toshiba a300d 4gb ram 250hardrive 2.1ghz
or possibly a HP as are a strong reliable laptop..

OR should i just keep my money and wait for the new macbooks in october?

thanks

Tell me about it! I've been hanging onto a 2.5 year old Macbook Pro for these new machine to come out.

Who knows if it will be Oct 14th as is rumoured ....perhaps it will be longer!! It is, after all, a rumour.

How ever I'm going to wait to avoid the pain of the a new one coming out the week after I bought the current one!

unclebill98 · 18-09-2008 6:19pm

If you want a Mac just get one. Stop the messing around waiting for updates. Cause the second you buy your new mac you should never visit the apple website again, cause the likely hood is they will update the one you've bought sooner than you think, its the mac way!

Core Audio is the main reason macs are better.

PaulBrewer · 18-09-2008 6:27pm

unclebill98 wrote: »

If you want a Mac just get one. Stop the messing around waiting for updates.

No way! Do you know how much fun there is in asking people you know have a Mk1 iPhone if it's a Mk2?

Wait I say, Wait!

Hearing that the laptop you just bought has been updated is akin to finding you're not the father of your child.

You still love it - but it ain't the same ......

(I should point out I haven't personally experienced that!)

sei046 · 18-09-2008 6:38pm

Man your going to bring out some demons for people here.

I HATE YOU LITTLE TIMMY!

dav nagle · 18-09-2008 6:47pm

me-skywalker wrote: »

Please, need some help from ppl with knowledge on laptops and recording.

Ive been highly considering a Mac for home recording.
but there is new updates for the Mac due out in october problem is im getting impatient waiting and have been looking around at a PC laptop... the debate will rage on PC vrs Mac.

No if i was to get a PC im thinkin a toshiba a300d 4gb ram 250hardrive 2.1ghz
or possibly a HP as are a strong reliable laptop..

OR should i just keep my money and wait for the new macbooks in october?

thanks

A quick story. I knew a guy, he didn't listen, he bought a state of the art pc laptop, he accidently broke it, he spent 2 months waiting to get it repaired long distance in the States. Had he bought a mac under warranty he would of sent it back to Ireland and got a replacement. Had he got a mac he would be making music now and not have been slapped with the label 'the reason I stopped making music is because my PC did my head in'

studiorat · 18-09-2008 7:03pm

My 12" powerbook, 3 or 4 years old. Good for 24 tracks in record. Bullet proof, bashed around, dropped, covered in dents, fag ash, melted chocolate, snot and still rocking...

Couldn't make it crash even if I tried...

You couldn't pry it from my cold dead hands!

PaulBrewer · 18-09-2008 7:32pm

dav nagle wrote: »

A quick story. I knew a guy, he didn't listen,

I know LOADS of guys ..... they don't listen.

PaulBrewer · 18-09-2008 7:33pm

studiorat wrote: »

My 12" powerbook, 3 or 4 years old. Good for 24 tracks in record. Bullet proof, bashed around, dropped, covered in dents, fag ash, melted chocolate, snot and still rocking...

Couldn't make it crash even if I tried...

You couldn't pry it from my cold dead hands!

Ah, should be due for a hard disk crash so..... Like I had a month ago, hence using my sister's Laptop till Oct. 14 ....or the 28th, or Nov 14th ...

dav nagle · 18-09-2008 7:34pm

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I know LOADS of guys ..... they don't listen.

Funnny how buying a pc can end your music career isn't it??

unclebill98 · 18-09-2008 7:40pm

Well, my mac is over 4 years old. The 4th one I've had. I did the whole wait and see. Its far to much of a pain in the hole.

Funny story. Was in the states last year. Mate wanted ipod. Went to mac shop and asked for one. Guy behind counter asked me was I sure, i was like yes, he asked again I said yes please, getting a bit pissed off now but he asked again. I said yes please a nice black one thank you very much. Handed him my CC, he asked for my Passport, 1st time any shop had asked, he said its store policy. I did not have it, he quickly said to call back tomorrow. I told him I was flying home and this is the last day of shopping and that I've used my cards on apple.com before so it should be ok. He checked and the card went through and he went off for about 10 mins and returned with the ipod. Happy enough I left. Woke up the next day and........

the new ipod touch came out

me-skywalker · 18-09-2008 7:42pm

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Ah, should be due for a hard disk crash so..... Like I had a month ago, hence using my sister's Laptop till Oct. 14 ....or the 28th, or Nov 14th ...

cheers for all the input such a noob in relation to it but ive hard macs are generaelly more reliable and they are jsut as compatible as a pc!!

its just the damn waiting ive a bunch of songs i need recorded now get off this crappy analog desk i have and start sprucing things up abit!

apple and there blasted secrecy but ill have to be patient :-(

PaulBrewer · 18-09-2008 7:43pm

unclebill98 wrote: »

Well, my mac is over 4 years old. The 4th one I've had. I did the whole wait and see. Its far to much of a pain in the hole.

Funny story. Was in the states last year. Mate wanted ipod. Went to mac shop and asked for one. Guy behind counter asked me was I sure, i was like yes, he asked again I said yes please, getting a bit pissed off now but he asked again. I said yes please a nice black one thank you very much. Handed him my CC, he asked for my Passport, 1st time any shop had asked, he said its store policy. I did not have it, he quickly said to call back tomorrow. I told him I was flying home and this is the last day of shopping and that I've used my cards on apple.com before so it should be ok. He checked and the card went through and he went off for about 10 mins and returned with the ipod. Happy enough I left. Woke up the next day and........

the new ipod touch came out

Timmy, you little bastard!!

unclebill98 · 18-09-2008 7:44pm

me-skywalker wrote: »

cheers for all the input such a noob in relation to it but ive hard macs are generaelly more reliable and they are jsut as compatible as a pc!!

its just the damn waiting ive a bunch of songs i need recorded now get off this crappy analog desk i have and start sprucing things up abit!

apple and there blasted secrecy but ill have to be patient :-(

When you do get one you'll never want to use a PC again.

dav nagle · 18-09-2008 7:50pm

unclebill98 wrote: »

When you do get one you'll never want to use a PC again.

When you do get one you'll never want to look at a PC again!

Anima · 18-09-2008 8:28pm

Macs are easier to use and are well suited for music stuff. There are some very good mac specific programs as well. However they are quite expensive. If you're anyway knowledgeable of computers, I'd get a laptop and if you really want to use OSX, then you can get versions that run on PCs. Not legal though

artvandulet · 18-09-2008 8:51pm

dav nagle wrote: »

When you do get one you'll never want to look at a PC again!

Unless its ALIENWARE
Beasts.

Helix · 18-09-2008 8:57pm

artvandulet wrote: »

Unless its ALIENWARE
Beasts.

overpriced rubbish imo

for the price of top quality alienware (which is dell btw), youd build 4 absolutely incredible machines yourself

if you liked you could even run osx on one of them too;)

artvandulet · 18-09-2008 9:18pm

Helix wrote: »

overpriced rubbish imo

for the price of top quality alienware (which is dell btw), youd build 4 absolutely incredible machines yourself

if you liked you could even run osx on one of them too;)

They are not Dell exactly. They are a wholly owned subsidary. Dell purchased them a couple years ago but they run separately. To call it overpriced rubbish is to say you haven't used one, at least recently.
BTW, before I get stuck into a MAC vs PC debate let it be known that I don't use an Alienware, I use a G5.

cornbb · 18-09-2008 10:03pm

You could wait for the new line of machines in the spring. But brand new Apple anything generally has some sort of teething trouble. If you fancy buying 2nd hand then there'll probably be a flood of decent machines on ebay as soon as the new range comes out.

Helix · 18-09-2008 11:21pm

artvandulet wrote: »

To call it overpriced rubbish is to say you haven't used one, at least recently

perhaps true

maybe not rubbish, but im sticking with overpriced

i build my own machines as and when i need them for about a quarter of the cost of a top spec alienware, and theyre better specced and run without issue

dav nagle · 18-09-2008 11:45pm

Helix wrote: »

perhaps true

maybe not rubbish, but im sticking with overpriced

i build my own machines as and when i need them for about a quarter of the cost of a top spec alienware, and theyre better specced and run without issue

Yes but which machine can run crysis?

me-skywalker · 19-09-2008 12:02am

well can just as easily run windows on the mac anyway so that saves that problem plus gonna need a beast of an external hard-drive anyways so that bail me out once the processor matches up to my needs...

anyway still have the desktop for all PC related needs such as bit torrent and porn hahaha

dav nagle · 19-09-2008 12:18am

me-skywalker wrote: »

well can just as easily run windows on the mac anyway so that saves that problem plus gonna need a beast of an external hard-drive anyways so that bail me out once the processor matches up to my needs...

anyway still have the desktop for all PC related needs such as bit torrent and porn hahaha

lol at least you are open and honest

Neurojazz · 19-09-2008 8:56am

Sat here with PC based studio - it works

You do need an aweful lot of tech knowledge compared to Mac tho to keep things smooth.

Mac has the distinct advantage of having the best firewire solution. I went to PC because i'm a PC technician and can keep mine alive and tip-top...

The only real difference really (in the end) is that the Mac GUI is nice and they are very, very forgiving/friendly - with a PC you need a black belt in finding crap buried within menus whereas a Mac just goes heeeelllllooooooooo...

PC does have advantages (like cost and software) - but diehard mac users have developed a hard shell due to the ****e thrown at them about Mac related issues so you'd find it hard to find a mac user to point out why a PC is fine.

I'm just gonna go off and write some inferior PC music now... ewwww... it sounds all bill gateish..... :P

Helix · 19-09-2008 10:20am

dav nagle wrote: »

Yes but which machine can run crysis?

my studio machine would run crisis at a canter if i put the graphics card from my home machine into it

Helix · 19-09-2008 10:22am

Neurojazz wrote: »

Sat here with PC based studio - it works
You do need an aweful lot of tech knowledge compared to Mac tho to keep things smooth.

Mac has the distinct advantage of having the best firewire solution. I went to PC because i'm a PC technician and can keep mine alive and tip-top...

The only real difference really (in the end) is that the Mac GUI is nice and they are very, very forgiving/friendly - with a PC you need a black belt in finding crap buried within menus whereas a Mac just goes heeeelllllooooooooo...

PC does have advantages (like cost and software) - but diehard mac users have developed a hard shell due to the ****e thrown at them about Mac related issues so you'd find it hard to find a mac user to point out why a PC is fine.

I'm just gonna go off and write some inferior PC music now... ewwww... it sounds all bill gateish..... :P

thats the thing, if you know how to build, maintain and optimise pcs, youre far better off with a pc than a mac, if you dont then a mac is definitely your man. its a definite sliding scale between cost and time required to optimise between the 2

cornbb · 19-09-2008 10:35am

Helix wrote: »

thats the thing, if you know how to build, maintain and optimise pcs, youre far better off with a pc than a mac, if you dont then a mac is definitely your man. its a definite sliding scale between cost and time required to optimise between the 2

I dunno, by that logic you could say Linux is the ultimate platform for running audio apps. But life is too short for that. And I guess the loss of PT, Logic, and everything else would be a problem too...

I'm a Mac fan now but I reckon it's horses for courses. A lot of the arguments that get trotted out by either side are either irrelevant or completely untrue. So much pointless fanboyism.

Neurojazz · 19-09-2008 11:03am

You'd lose out on choice of software on Linux

- i have linux installed within windows... it's a OS that's desparately trying to be WINMAC

- it's a great concept that was carefully stolen by Windows xp - linux is great for minimal systems (whereas win98 just loaded everything / xp can be slimmed down ala Linux)....

I think linux is still firmly server side for serious stuff...

IF you need firewire based audio hardware = MAC
IF you dabbling = PC
IF your'e serious 'PRO' then make up your own mind

- stick with one platform and uninstall all the crap you don't use to make it work

At the end of the day... you can do anything on BOTH platforms musically, most software is available for BOTH, but depends if your flush with cash to get shiny white MAC or a stuffed under the desk PC come dust trap.

I was a simpleton so went PC route as cubase was like lego and very, very simple with options to complicate things... would love a mac just for webwork tbh

expose ftw.

progsound · 19-09-2008 11:31am

Neurojazz wrote: »

IF you need firewire based audio hardware = MAC

Im not so sure man current macbooks dont use the Ti firewire chipset anymore and now there are lots of people having compatability issues with their macbook and firewire audio interface if you want the TI chipset you have to get the macbook pro. http://thestudiofiles.com/?p=98

You can make music with a mac or a pc just fine one is not specificaly better than the other (assuming similar spec hardware) some people like mac others pc.

I went the pc route because im used to it and already had pc only plugins and the macbook pro was just to damm expensive for me (im getting a custom built audio laptop ( http://www.adkproaudio.com/laptop2.cfm )made cheaper than a stock new macbook pro for gods sake). I would have got the cheaper macbook had i not being concerned by the firewire chipset.

But at the end of the day be it mac or pc computers suck.

Helix · 19-09-2008 11:32am

cornbb wrote: »

I dunno, by that logic you could say Linux is the ultimate platform for running audio apps. But life is too short for that. And I guess the loss of PT, Logic, and everything else would be a problem too...

I'm a Mac fan now but I reckon it's horses for courses. A lot of the arguments that get trotted out by either side are either irrelevant or completely untrue. So much pointless fanboyism.

i agree completely about the fanboyism, but tbh its generally from the mac side of things. see: macs dont crash for a fine example lol

but yeh its whatever youre into really. i despise protools with every fibre of my being. i just think its a horrible, horrible dog to work with, so that means im not missing out on not having it based on my own personal preferences. and having not used logic, im perfectly happy with cubase, but if i ever feel like trying it out ill install osx onto my pc and give it a go. others of course will prefer the software available on mac, and might occasionally dabble with pc stuff via xp installed on their mac

at the end of the day, if you know how you can run anything on anything

Helix · 19-09-2008 11:34am

progsound wrote: »

But at the end of the day be it mac or pc computers suck.

bang on

give me my slightly unstable mpc4000 to sequence any day haha

oh to have the time to play with it as much as it wants to be played with

me-skywalker · 19-09-2008 11:40am

Helix wrote: »

having not used logic, im perfectly happy with cubase,

what about audacity? guy out in laptop clinic... aungier street who records school choirs recommend audacity as its free and easy to use??

Helix · 19-09-2008 12:06pm

its jsut a recorder, does nothing special

me-skywalker · 19-09-2008 12:14pm

no effects or tools for eq or samples or any tweaking?

so would that leave cubase as the best option?

Helix · 19-09-2008 12:32pm

if you want to record multitrack stuff cubase would be your best bet, tho i think theres free daw knocking about that might be worth a look if you wanna try it

might be called reaper i think

progsound · 19-09-2008 1:30pm

Yea reaper is becomming pretty popular and for the price it cant be beat

http://www.reaper.fm/

FlipperThePriest · 21-09-2008 2:04pm

Binary is so overrated, I don't think these machines will ever take off!!:D

Another point is that a PC (advertising) 3G ram is probably using a third of that just running it's own fancy shmancy, hi-tech, blow you away gui services (especially if its running vista!!) A MAC will give you its soul in terms of ram! This is part of the reason why macs and PCs of the same spec are miles apart in terms of performace.

Neurojazz · 21-09-2008 2:29pm

lol - again a misguided post... please can Mac users go and really get some real knowledge instead of post modernistic waffle that comes from reading glossies... that lovely mac slick performance comes from the quartz extreme chip onboard (not sure how many models have this tho)

A good PC does need a lot of those services turning off... there are tons of music sites for musicians that show you how to turn all this stuff off that isn't needed - then it flies, and really fly - the OS looks like a dog, but doesn't run like one once you've stripped out the crap.

I used to hear arguments like if you like gaming buy AMD and if you want number crunching buy intel... shows the mindset buying into advertising and people slagging off intel for their high prices (but superior knowledge and dev skills / design / whatever)

The Mac GUI is not a true representation of the power under the hood - you are essentially looking at a buffered screenshot - that looks extremly alluring.

frobisher · 21-09-2008 3:07pm

They are both just lumps of plastic and metal that will both do what you want very, very well. Follow your budget and personal preferences. But that's not the answer you want, is it? So now I'm going to tell you the great truth on this that everyone knows but no-one is telling you:

PC's are better. But MAC's have a great pedigree in music. But that has changed as PC's have developed. PC's are IBM & Bill Gates evil. MAC's are warm and cute like the puppy in iRobot. But PC's are very powerful tools that will do all you want for cheaper than a MAC. Vista will destroy you, your RAM, your brain and your children's brains. OS-X will hold your hand, make you tea and give you lollipops.

Now you can o forth and make a truly informed decision.

Neurojazz · 21-09-2008 3:41pm

forget vista

- winxp runs everything fine and all the software around has drivers for it... why hog a machine up with vista if you only use a machine for music

dav nagle · 21-09-2008 4:55pm

frobisher wrote: »

They are both just lumps of plastic and metal that will both do what you want very, very well. Follow your budget and personal preferences. But that's not the answer you want, is it? So now I'm going to tell you the great truth on this that everyone knows but no-one is telling you:

PC's are better. But MAC's have a great pedigree in music. But that has changed as PC's have developed. PC's are IBM & Bill Gates evil. MAC's are warm and cute like the puppy in iRobot. But PC's are very powerful tools that will do all you want for cheaper than a MAC. Vista will destroy you, your RAM, your brain and your children's brains. OS-X will hold your hand, make you tea and give you lollipops.

Now you can o forth and make a truly informed decision.

PC's are perhaps better in terms of the huge amount of software. PC's will do what you want for cheaper, that is very true but they will also slap you across the face and cause huge headaches. They are unstable, slow, glitchy as hell, noisy. When you decide on buying a computer for sound recording consider noise as an important factor or else one could end up posting a thread about 'how to silence a rattled noisy PC' in the studio.

'Fanboyism' which was mentioned in an earlier post is a weak argument. As a PC user for over ten years I never looked at MAC, but after all the glitches and highly annoying driver installations (God I am glad I no longer have to install drivers, such a waste of any man's time) I can get down to business. Now maybe the MAC holds your hand a feeds you lollypops but in fairness the MAC is doing what you PC is doing without all the slow down in between. So....
the fact that MAC are driver free, virus free, stable, intelligent, quite... (the list can go on and on...) then why on earth would you go PC? If music is ones passion surely you want a beast of a machine that can crunch and process huge numbers while at the same time making the experience an extremely fun one. No errors = no headaches. My friend Sean told me for years to ''just get a mac and see for yourself'' and I didn't listen until 2007. I hold my hand up and say I was wrong.

Helix · 21-09-2008 6:04pm

dav nagle wrote: »

PC's... are unstable, slow, glitchy as hell, noisy. When you decide on buying a computer for sound recording consider noise as an important factor or else one could end up posting a thread about 'how to silence a rattled noisy PC' in the studio.

theyre only like that if you build them like that though. thats like complaining about how shoddy the book cabinet you built is

dav nagle wrote: »

the fact that MAC are driver free, virus free, stable, intelligent, quite... (the list can go on and on...) then why on earth would you go PC?

macs have drivers
macs have viruses
pcs are stable if you know how to maintain them, macs can be unstable
intelligent? lol
pcs are as quiet as you build them

if youre talking about out of the box pcs then fair enough, but anyone who is using an out of the box pc for music, and takes their music remotely seriously, needs to be slapped around the room with a week old salmon

cornbb · 21-09-2008 6:55pm

frobisher wrote: »

PC's are better....

Vista will destroy you, your RAM, your brain and your children's brains. OS-X will hold your hand, make you tea and give you lollipops.

Now you can o forth and make a truly informed decision.

dav nagle wrote: »

They are unstable, slow, glitchy as hell, noisy....

the fact that MAC are driver free, virus free, stable, intelligent, quite... (the list can go on and on...) then why on earth would you go PC? If music is ones passion surely you want a beast of a machine that can crunch and process huge numbers while at the same time making the experience an extremely fun one. No errors = no headaches. My friend Sean told me for years to ''just get a mac and see for yourself'' and I didn't listen until 2007. I hold my hand up and say I was wrong.

Every Mac vs. PC argument tends to end up like this. People are basing their arguments based on personal experience (or more likely personal preference) and not solid facts and figures. Can't we all just accept that all computers suck?

Helix wrote: »

macs have viruses

This is true, but in fairness there's more chance of me catching the ebola virus than there is of my Mac catching any virus...

frobisher · 21-09-2008 7:00pm

dav nagle wrote: »

PC's are perhaps better in terms of the huge amount of software. PC's will do what you want for cheaper, that is very true but they will also slap you across the face and cause huge headaches. They are unstable, slow, glitchy as hell, noisy. When you decide on buying a computer for sound recording consider noise as an important factor or else one could end up posting a thread about 'how to silence a rattled noisy PC' in the studio.

'Fanboyism' which was mentioned in an earlier post is a weak argument. As a PC user for over ten years I never looked at MAC, but after all the glitches and highly annoying driver installations (God I am glad I no longer have to install drivers, such a waste of any man's time) I can get down to business. Now maybe the MAC holds your hand a feeds you lollypops but in fairness the MAC is doing what you PC is doing without all the slow down in between. So....
the fact that MAC are driver free, virus free, stable, intelligent, quite... (the list can go on and on...) then why on earth would you go PC? If music is ones passion surely you want a beast of a machine that can crunch and process huge numbers while at the same time making the experience an extremely fun one. No errors = no headaches. My friend Sean told me for years to ''just get a mac and see for yourself'' and I didn't listen until 2007. I hold my hand up and say I was wrong.

Much of this post strikes me as nonsensical.

I had a Mac, it sometimes caused me problems but worked perfectly 99% of the time.
Now I have a PC, it has caused me problems but works perfectly 99% of the time.

Now, back to the brain frying and free lollipops. Do the wise thing and get an Atari ST. Great for Cubase and MIDI. I know of a sweet 8 gig SCSI drive going cheap too :-)

dav nagle · 21-09-2008 7:32pm

cornbb wrote: »

Every Mac vs. PC argument tends to end up like this. People are basing their arguments based on personal experience (or more likely personal preference) and not solid facts and figures. Can't we all just accept that all computers suck?

This is true, but in fairness there's more chance of me catching the ebola virus than there is of my Mac catching any virus...

Mac pro's do not suck :rolleyes:

frobisher · 21-09-2008 7:32pm

cornbb wrote: »

Can't we all just accept that all computers suck?

:D:D:D It's true, PC's suck just because they suck. MAC's suck because they are designed to quietly hoover your house while you sleep. And that is the entire argument in a nutshell.

dav nagle · 21-09-2008 7:32pm

frobisher wrote: »

Much of this post strikes me as nonsensical.

I had a Mac, it sometimes caused me problems but worked perfectly 99% of the time.
Now I have a PC, it has caused me problems but works perfectly 99% of the time.

Now, back to the brain frying and free lollipops. Do the wise thing and get an Atari ST. Great for Cubase and MIDI. I know of a sweet 8 gig SCSI drive going cheap too :-)

It makes perfect sense:rolleyes:

frobisher · 21-09-2008 7:41pm

dav nagle wrote: »

It makes perfect sense:rolleyes:

Glad we got that all cleared up then. :cool:

Mac vrs PC for recording new updates wait or go PC?

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