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Was the Dáil Illegal and does it matter?

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Comments

  • #52
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    An Coilean wrote: »
    So the Dáil was set up without a shot being fired, except for the shots that were actually fired.

    The shots had nothing to do with establishing the Dail.

    That's like blaming someone for sinking the Titanic for shooting a man in Cork the same day.

    Both events probably would have happened regardless of each other


  • #53
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    I think George Galloway put it better than anybody else when he said:
    "the only certificate of authenticity required was the one issued by the Irish people for the Irish freedom struggle, they don't require the certificate from the anyone else"

    That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the legality of the Dail.

    If the Scottish people voted for independence (which I don't believe is in their best interest) that would be & have to be respected but it wasn't respected here & in that lies the problem & is why you have organizations like the IRA.


  • #54
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    tdv123 wrote: »
    The shots had nothing to do with establishing the Dail.

    That's like blaming someone for sinking the Titanic for shooting a man in Cork the same day.

    Both events probably would have happened regardless of each other


    The establishment of the Dáil was not an event that happened in a single day, it was a process that took many months, and included the development of the republican justice system and the county councils withdrawing from the British system and seeking affiliation with the Dáil.

    This process could not have happened without the actions of the IRA which actively disrupted the British system and provided protection for Dáil activities where possible.
    Without the IRA, the Dáil would very quickly have been surpressed.


  • #55
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    An Coilean wrote: »
    The establishment of the Dáil was not an event that happened in a single day, it was a process that took many months, and included the development of the republican justice system and the county councils withdrawing from the British system and seeking affiliation with the Dáil.

    This process could not have happened without the actions of the IRA which actively disrupted the British system and provided protection for Dáil activities where possible.
    Without the IRA, the Dáil would very quickly have been surpressed.

    They had a role in the development & progress made by the Dail sure but it wasn't the IRA who decided to set up a separate parliament in Dublin. The SF manifesto was clear & in no way ambiguous. The IRA's main allegiance was with the Volunteer Executive, it wasn't until the Dail had been firmly established as real power on the islands that both TD's & Volunteers were made take the same oath.

    The people voting in the election knew well that the people they were voting for had taken part in a violent uprising & quit clearly knew violence was a possibility. So the notion that people were voting in the dark just does not hold up.


  • #56
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    tdv123 wrote: »
    The IRA army council is the only legit governing body in Ireland. The Dail gave up it's right when it voted for the Anglo-Irish treaty. So yes, it's illegal

    How can it be legitimate when not one person has ever voted for it?


  • #57
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    tdv123 wrote: »
    I think George Galloway put it better than anybody else when he said:
    "the only certificate of authenticity required was the one issued by the Irish people for the Irish freedom struggle, they don't require the certificate from the anyone else"

    That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the legality of the Dail.

    If the Scottish people voted for independence (which I don't believe is in their best interest) that would be & have to be respected but it wasn't respected here & in that lies the problem & is why you have organizations like the IRA.


    George Galloway, stop you're killing me.


  • #58
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    Ipso wrote: »
    George Galloway, stop you're killing me.

    Ah one-liners, the foundation of any good debate.

    Will I'd rather be considered a lefty than the embarrassing state of the right at the moment.

    Do you not agree with his statement that Irish people had the right to determine their own future without outside interference? Or do you think London should always be allowed to control what happens in Ireland?

    Tell what part you don't specifically agree with?

    I'm very bemused at the anti-Republican sentiment on this site. It was Republicans who did more than anyone other group of people who founded this state & Republicans who more than any other group who are trying to bring about reunification, I know some people on here think a UI is a bad thing but I think after the dust settles we'll be stronger with the North.


  • #59
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    tdv123 wrote: »
    Ah one-liners, the foundation of any good debate.

    Will I'd rather be considered a lefty than the embarrassing state of the right at the moment.

    Do you not agree with his statement that Irish people had the right to determine their own future without outside interference? Or do you think London should always be allowed to control what happens in Ireland?

    Tell what part you don't specifically agree with?

    Well the left is in a great state isn't it?
    I couldn't care less about your debate. The Irish can't look after themselves, the last 15 years proved that. Keep it up, it's pure and utter small man syndrome.


  • #60
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    Ipso wrote: »
    Well the left is in a great state isn't it?
    I couldn't care less about your debate. The Irish can't look after themselves, the last 15 years proved that. Keep it up, it's pure and utter small man syndrome.

    So in other word your just trolling, great.


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  • #61
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    tdv123 wrote: »
    The IRA army council is the only legit governing body in Ireland. The Dail gave up it's right when it voted for the Anglo-Irish treaty. So yes, it's illegal

    Let me get this straight: When an assembly, representative of the people, by a majority vote endorses a treaty that somebody doesn't like, it ceases to be representative of the people, and the army that serves that assembly becomes the legislature? Are you talking about Greece 1967, Argentina 1976, Spain 1936, Egypt 2013 or Ireland?


  • #62
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    "Ipso wrote: »
    I couldn't care less about your debate. .

    Then what on earth are you doing here?


  • #63
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    tdv123 wrote: »
    I'm very bemused at the anti-Republican sentiment on this site. It was Republicans who did more than anyone other group of people who founded this state & Republicans who more than any other group who are trying to bring about reunification, I know some people on here think a UI is a bad thing but I think after the dust settles we'll be stronger with the North.

    Maybe if certain republicans stopped telling people that they don't know what they are doing and only they know best they would get more respect.

    Claiming that a democratically elected government is not legitimate, yet a self appointed terrorist army is, isn't ,exactly helping you win hearts and minds.


  • #64
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    tdv123 wrote: »
    The IRA army council is the only legit governing body in Ireland. The Dail gave up it's right when it voted for the Anglo-Irish treaty. So yes, it's illegal
    tdv123 wrote: »
    I'm very bemused at the anti-Republican sentiment on this site. It was Republicans who did more than anyone other group of people who founded this state & Republicans who more than any other group who are trying to bring about reunification, I know some people on here think a UI is a bad thing but I think after the dust settles we'll be stronger with the North.

    I suggest that your bemusement is not due to anti-republican sentiment here, it is due to your thought processes. What you have written has nothing to do with 'History' and also is bereft of legality and economic logic.

    As for your notions of a United Ireland, you might like to consider the cost of replacing the British subsidy paid to NI. For example, the economic inactivity rate for those aged 16-64 in NI stands at 27.9%. This rate continues to rise and is consistently above the UK average rate (22.2%) and was the highest rate among the twelve UK regions. The biggest employer in NI is the State, with about 14+% employed in ‘administration & defence’ along with 8% working in education, 14% in social work and another 4% in social and community services. Economically, the RoI cannot afford the Six Counties, it perhaps was marginal during the Celtic Tiger but it is out of the question now.

    You could also ponder that Fianna Fail, the Republican Party, allowed this economy to be derailed while Fine Gael stood on the sidelines with no notion of what is happening. The Greens had a press conference on lightbulbs the day Lehmans went down the tubes and Sinn Fein was busy elsewhere, (fundraising in places like the Northern Bank). The latter's economic policies are so inane they are not worth debating..


  • #65
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    tdv123 wrote: »
    The IRA army council is the only legit governing body in Ireland. The Dail gave up it's right when it voted for the Anglo-Irish treaty. So yes, it's illegal

    There has been debate here as to what people voted for in 1918. Even if we accept your version of that, people and their democratically elected representatives have a right to change their minds, and to vote governments in and out, without regard to the wishes of the dead, though one appreciates that those from the " vote early and often" tradition, where ballot boxes are stuffed with dead people's votes, may have difficulty grappling with that. The Good Friday Agreement was endorsed by a majority of Northern Catholics, Northern Protestants, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, and Ireland as a whole. If that is not a democratic mandate, overriding all that went before, I don't know what is. Of course, those who know better than the people may disagree, persons such as Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Generalisimo Franco and your good self.


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