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Course v Experience

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  • 28-01-2021 12:25pm
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    I currently work as an EA for a company for approximately 3 years and I love this job (It's been my first EA role and it's something that I see myself staying in but I'm considering what could help my career and weighing up the options on if experience is the key factor or if I should do a PA Diploma through Pitman College.

    The PA diploma is quite expensive (close to €3,500-‚¬4000) and it's a huge financial investment as the company that I work for will only partially cover the cost. There is also the time commitment factor (around 4-6 hrs a week minimum study, more hours if I want to complete the diploma in less time)

    I guess that I'm looking for advice from others on their thoughts on what would be best.


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    #2
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    IMO education and qualifications are always a good idea.

    I don't know a lot about EA positions though.

    Do you feel you need this course to land another job?

    I think you should talk to your boss about this to see what does he think. Perhaps he would prefer you could help with reports and analysis and he thinks courses in X and Y would be better.

    EDIT: Yes I know her boss could be a woman.


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    #3
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,710 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Do you have a degree? If not, your time and money would be better spent on a more conventional college course.


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    #4
    nibtrix
    Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭nibtrix


    I'd be wary of shelling out money for any course that's not formally recognised or accredited by QQI. Assuming you're looking at Pitman Training (I can't find a Pitman "College") they say on their website that they are registered with QQI but there doesn't seem to be any accreditation associated with the PA Diploma.

    I'd be asking a lot of questions before I gave them any money, tbh.


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    #5
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thank you, turns out out that work may not even cover much of the cost of the course and I think it's a huge amount of money for what it is. Seems another HR box ticking exercise.

    It's very frustrating. I love my job but feeling pressured to do a course doesn't help.


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    #6
    Diceicle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Diceicle


    Theres nothing on the Springboard side of things is there?


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    #7
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    Lauraanne22 wrote: »
    I love my job but feeling pressured to do a course doesn't help.

    Are you pressuring yourself, or is someone else pressuring you?

    Do you have a degree?


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    #8
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    Are you pressuring yourself, or is someone else pressuring you?

    Do you have a degree?

    Someone else was pressuring me. I don't have a degree and I've done very well job wise to date and I'm in a good job which is paid well. I've always felt my career experience has got me to where I need to get.

    I'm in my early 40s so going back to college at this stage of my life doesn't appeal too much.


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    #9
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,710 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Lauraanne22 wrote: »
    I'm in my early 40s so going back to college at this stage of my life doesn't appeal too much.

    Once you hit 50, if you don't have a level 8 qualification, there are quite a few companies that won't even look at your CV.

    Also, to be blunt, as you age you will be less attractive, and thus less desirable to have as a PA unless you spend a lot of time and money on bodily maintenance. It's likely that you believe your performance is determined by actual job-achievements, but there's a lot more to it: your face needs to fit, and it needs to project the image the company wants. Very few companies want to look older.


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    #10
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Very few companies want to look older.

    Oh wow, this is very insightful... and depressing.


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    #11
    lcstress2012
    Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭lcstress2012


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Once you hit 50, if you don't have a level 8 qualification, there are quite a few companies that won't even look at your CV.

    Also, to be blunt, as you age you will be less attractive, and thus less desirable to have as a PA unless you spend a lot of time and money on bodily maintenance. It's likely that you believe your performance is determined by actual job-achievements, but there's a lot more to it: your face needs to fit, and it needs to project the image the company wants. Very few companies want to look older.

    I work on the airport. I know a guy who makes 40,000 as an entry level job (not going to say which company) that has no degree. I have no degree never had an interest and I’m on €35,000 at 27. I’m sorry but experience is better than a piece of paper in my mind.


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    #12
    nibtrix
    Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭nibtrix


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Once you hit 50, if you don't have a level 8 qualification, there are quite a few companies that won't even look at your CV.

    Also, to be blunt, as you age you will be less attractive, and thus less desirable to have as a PA unless you spend a lot of time and money on bodily maintenance. It's likely that you believe your performance is determined by actual job-achievements, but there's a lot more to it: your face needs to fit, and it needs to project the image the company wants. Very few companies want to look older.

    Wow, that is some comment, you do know not every EA/PA job is working for someone like Miranda Priestly in The Devil Wears Prada!!
    I'm based at a large company (5000+ in Ireland) and of the 15 or so EAs in the company I would say around half of them are over 50. They are highly experienced, well-paid, respected and most especially professional men and women who are judged on their skills rather than their looks.

    I would agree that there are certain industries and certain companies where age discrimination and a person's appearance may come into play, but there are plenty of places where it won't, so to say that as a general statement to someone looking for advice on furthering their career is unfair and in my opinion, unnecessarily nasty.


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    #13
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,710 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    nibtrix wrote: »
    ...and in my opinion, unnecessarily nasty.

    I'm a woman in my early 50s.

    I make no apologies for sharing my experience with the OP. Warm fuzzy statements may sound nicer, but don't reflect reality in many cases.

    If someone is considering courses at a Pitman's training course level, they need to be aware of the possible issues with getting a return on their investment.


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    #14
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Lauraanne22 wrote: »
    I currently work as an EA for a company for approximately 3 years and I love this job (It's been my first EA role and it's something that I see myself staying in but I'm considering what could help my career and weighing up the options on if experience is the key factor or if I should do a PA Diploma through Pitman College.

    All professional education is a cost/benefit.

    Will this course make you better at your job and help you earn more money?
    If yes, then it's probably worth it.
    lcstress2012 wrote: »
    I work on the airport. I know a guy who makes 40,000 as an entry level job (not going to say which company) that has no degree. I have no degree never had an interest and I’m on €35,000 at 27. I’m sorry but experience is better than a piece of paper in my mind.

    Are you a roofer?

    At the age of 40 you'd hope you have sufficient experience that makes you valuable.
    I was on €52,000 at 27, thanks to a degree and masters, €70,000 now at 31, and aiming for near 100k by 35.
    That said, I was on sweet f*ck all from 18-24 doing the degree and masters, but it's paid off now.

    Qualifications are important, but as I said, unless you're studying for pleasure, it's a cost/benefit.


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    #15
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Once you hit 50, if you don't have a level 8 qualification, there are quite a few companies that won't even look at your CV.

    Also, to be blunt, as you age you will be less attractive, and thus less desirable to have as a PA unless you spend a lot of time and money on bodily maintenance. It's likely that you believe your performance is determined by actual job-achievements, but there's a lot more to it: your face needs to fit, and it needs to project the image the company wants. Very few companies want to look older.


    This is one of the most nonsense, bad advice comments I've ever seen on boards.


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    #16
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,710 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    This is one of the most nonsense, bad advice comments I've ever seen on boards.

    Are you age 50+? If not, then I'd suggest you don't have a clue. If you are, then your experience must be limited. My post reflects my experience, and that of lots of other people I know.


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    #17
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    This is one of the most nonsense, bad advice comments I've ever seen on boards.

    What are you trying to say - ageism isn't a thing?

    Or are you saying powerful people don't prefer younger, good looking assistants?

    I work for a company with a lot of male managers and a lot of assistants, and the assistants are young, pretty women.


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    #18
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,062 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    This is one of the most nonsense, bad advice comments I've ever seen on boards.

    It may be offensive to some, doesn’t mean it’s wrong though.


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    #19
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Mrs OBumble is right. Everyone gets judged on their age in one way or another.
    First off... Pitman is a waste of money. They string together a few modules and call it a diploma but the price is eye-watering. Plenty of qqi courses for €500 and plenty of springboard courses and ecdl are actually free.
    Op, executive assistant.. Ecdl is a good shout. Word, outlook, maybe powerpoint and excel. Most of it's just being "on the ball".. Don't make mistakes or let things fall through the cracks, be wise beyond your years, discretion - don't gossip, be good at screening and prioritising, be pleasant and presentable, excellent time management.. And yes look the part- dress well, wear makeup, flatter the managers..

    I don't know. A course is a wonderful achievement and worth pursuing but make sure it's recognised.

    Ps most administrators with business degrees, i wouldnt trust go open an envelope. They get anxiety making a phonecall.


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    #20
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Are you age 50+? If not, then I'd suggest you don't have a clue. If you are, then your experience must be limited. My post reflects my experience, and that of lots of other people I know.

    I agree. I never though the term "overqualified" was real until I started hiring .


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    #21
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Are you age 50+? If not, then I'd suggest you don't have a clue. If you are, then your experience must be limited. My post reflects my experience, and that of lots of other people I know.

    Nearly. And I have every clue as bears out from my training and experience.

    At the end of the day age discrimination is illegal, and secondly, this isn't image conscious LA where shallowness rules the show.


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    #22
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,062 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Nearly. And I have every clue as bears out from my training and experience.

    At the end of the day age discrimination is illegal, and secondly, this isn't image conscious LA where shallowness rules the show.

    Discriminatory, yes, it’s just that not many employers are stupid enough to tell an applicant that age was a consideration. But it would be naive to think it isn’t. Don’t kid yourself that image isn’t a consideration.


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    #23
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Discriminatory, yes, it’s just that not many employers are stupid enough to tell an applicant that age was a consideration. But it would be naive to think it isn’t. Don’t kid yourself that image isn’t a consideration.

    I hear you, I know it's not perfect and that to some degree it will be an issue that employers and sleazy executives will try to get away with because *ego*.
    I personally feel that Mrs O Bumbles post was exaggerated. Since when is a PA the face of a company?


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    #24
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,062 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    I hear you, I know it's not perfect and that to some degree it will be an issue that employers and sleazy executives will try to get away with because *ego*.
    I personally feel that Mrs O Bumbles post was exaggerated. Since when is a PA the face of a company?

    When she’s the ones your clients listen to, meet and see when they call/zoom/have appointments?

    Having a young vibrant assistant is not ego if that is the image you are trying to project to your clients.


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    #25
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Dav010 wrote: »
    When she’s the ones your clients listen to, meet and see when they call/zoom/have appointments?

    Having a young vibrant assistant is not ego if that is the image you are trying to project to your clients.

    I have had a PA. My PA set up the meetings and sent out the links or set up the appointments, but she did not appear on the calls nor meet the majority of clients/business contacts. The receptionists were far more facing into that. The image my clients/business contacts had was from myself and other managers or executives directly. Same goes for other's PA's I have interacted with. This has been my experience the vast majority of my career.

    The bit about the ego I refer to is some (mostly) men liking an attractive woman working for them. That's something else going on entirely.


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    #26
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    I personally feel that Mrs O Bumbles post was exaggerated.

    And this isn't an exaggeration?
    Stateofyou wrote: »
    This is one of the most nonsense, bad advice comments I've ever seen on boards.

    Also, OBumble never said this:
    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Since when is a PA the face of a company?

    You've taken her fair points - (a) companies don't want to look old, (b) young, good looking PAs are much more desirable than older, less atractive PAs - and are trying to change what she said and also argue against what we all know is true - ageism is a thing, especially in roles which are usually done by young women.


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    #27
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    And this isn't an exaggeration?



    Also, OBumble never said this:



    You've taken her fair points - (a) companies don't want to look old, (b) young, good looking PAs are much more desirable than older, less atractive PAs - and are trying to change what she said and also argue against what we all know is true - ageism is a thing, especially in roles which are usually done by young women.

    Is what an exaggeration? I said what was true for me. Just because you don't like or agree with my opinion doesn't make it an exaggeration. Perhaps if I'd have been on boards for more years it wouldn't have been one of the worst I'd seen. :pac:

    And excuse me, but yes she did say that, and quite obviously:
    your face needs to fit, and it needs to project the image the company wants. Very few companies want to look older.

    Again in my experience, I/my colleagues have worked with all kinds of PA's. Men, women, young, or older and more experienced. Give me the latter any day.


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    #28
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Is what an exaggeration? I said what was true for me. Just because you don't like or agree with my opinion doesn't make it an exaggeration. Perhaps if I'd have been on boards for more years it wouldn't have been one of the worst I'd seen. :pac:

    And excuse me, but yes she did say that, and quite obviously:


    Again in my experience, I/my colleagues have worked with all kinds of PA's. Men, women, young, or older and more experienced. Give me the latter any day.

    Come on, you can't accuse someone of exaggerating and excuse your own exaggerations.

    She didn't say the PA is the face of the company, she said her looks need to fit in with the image of the company. They are two different things and surely you know this.

    I can see you're going to start strawmanning and won't give an inch so this is my last reply.


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    #29
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    Come on, you can't accuse someone of exaggerating and excuse your own exaggerations.

    She didn't say the PA is the face of the company, she said her looks need to fit in with the image of the company. They are two different things and surely you know this.

    I can see you're going to start strawmanning and won't give an inch so this is my last reply.

    You're just playing semantics now for the sake of it.

    Yeah, the image and look the company wants to project. Project to whom then, OMM?


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    #30
    nibtrix
    Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭nibtrix


    I think the issue with a comment like the following:
    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Also, to be blunt, as you age you will be less attractive, and thus less desirable to have as a PA unless you spend a lot of time and money on bodily maintenance.

    is that it's not even caveated with an "in my experience" or "in many companies" or "in some industries".
    Making such a blunt statement, which was very negative in terms of the support the OP was asking for, is always going to stir up a response when there's no allowance that it might not be the same in everyone's experience.

    Mrs OBumble then came back to say it was what they had experienced/noticed in their career, which is what should have been mentioned in the first place.


    In my experience (I'm 40+, have worked in a number of large professional companies) there have been far more EAs working in the background on meeting bookings, travel arrangements, research, document printing, event mgt and dealing with mail than there have been client facing EAs who would need to greet clients or sit in on meetings to take minutes etc.


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    #31
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    nibtrix wrote: »
    I think the issue with a comment like the following:

    In my experience (I'm 40+, have worked in a number of large professional companies) there have been far more EAs working in the background on meeting bookings, travel arrangements, research, document printing, event mgt and dealing with mail than there have been client facing EAs who would need to greet clients or sit in on meetings to take minutes etc.

    It seems this thread has devolved a bit. The OP hasn't posted in a while anyways.


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