Stick or twist in Civil Service?

uck51js9zml2yt · 08-07-2018 10:50pm

Augeo wrote: »

After your decades of experience you started where on the CO payscale?

Management is a loose enough term..... every retail outlet has at least one person working in management

And you reckon the majority of COs are familiar with investment portfolios? Come off it.

I was managing logistics teams with a multi million euro budget and a large customer base. And putting in 70+ hours a week. I started were every co starts on the scale but it suited my situation. 2 of us in my unit have managed large teams in the real world but the flexibility and family friendliness of the CS suits us both. Both of us have gotten promotions in the last while.
There's lots of very bright CO's and then there's the rest!

4ensic15 · 09-07-2018 1:16am

beauf wrote: »

I don't think many will agree with you.

Is this an election or a debate on the merits?

fg1406 · 09-07-2018 1:53am

I’m someone who was in the Public Sector, went to the private sector and now back to the public sector. I will agree it is probably the most demoralising place to work. A great place if you are a terminal underachiever and don’t mind doing as little as possible for your wage. There is zero incentive to go over and above and no thanks for hard graft, or any form of recognition. You’ll get paid the same (and often less if you’ve joined after 2013) than the person scratching their sack all day in the next cubicle over.

I’m currently in college at night doing a masters and I have a 5 year plan to get the hell out of there, so my advice would be to lay the groundwork for exiting over the next few years. I’m only sorry I didn’t take redundancy in 2010 but my circumstances didn’t allow it at the time but I’m more financially settled (ie wedding and house purchase out of the way) so I’m getting ready to get the hell out of there before I go mad with work related stress.

HydroTendonMan · 09-07-2018 10:07am

I find it hard to believe that there is actually a stigma attached to people going the extra mile in work. This idea of 'taking our overtime' is ridiculous.

I have a friend who works in the CS and is definitely the overachiever type who has never had this experience.

Pawwed Rig · 09-07-2018 10:15am

HydroTendonMan wrote: »

I have a friend who works in the CS and is definitely the overachiever type who has never had this experience.

My brother and sister both work in public sector. Brother agrees with everything in the thread. Sister doesn't. Seems to be different departments with different cultures.

Personally I deal with Revenue a lot and find them reasonably good 80% of the time (if not a bit slow to respond on things). On the other hand I also deal with the Dept of Social Protection regularly and have yet to have a good experience.

Dealings with the Immigration office leave me pulling my hair out in frustration.

theyoungchap · 09-07-2018 10:29am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Personally I deal with Revenue a lot and find them reasonably good 80% of the time (if not a bit slow to respond on things). On the other hand I also deal with the Dept of Social Protection regularly and have yet to have a good experience.

I wonder why.....one brings in all the money to the exchequer and the other pays it out.....by far the best people in the entire CS work in Revenue.

Try dealing with your local authority if you want to see incompetence at its finest.

I suppose, getting back to the OP, it depends what you want in life.

If you want job security, a good pension, and to spend your life in a soul-destroying environment and culture, the PS is fine.

If you want to experience something different every few years, move up the ladder based on ability rather than service, and to have hard work and effort rewarded, then you move on. You might have bumps along the way, occasional unemployment, etc, but that won't be forever either.

That would be my take on it anyway. To each their own I suppose.

Claw Hammer · 09-07-2018 11:27am

HydroTendonMan wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that there is actually a stigma attached to people going the extra mile in work. This idea of 'taking our overtime' is ridiculous.

I have a friend who works in the CS and is definitely the overachiever type who has never had this experience.

Then he is a liar.

HydroTendonMan · 09-07-2018 11:50am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

My brother and sister both work in public sector. Brother agrees with everything in the thread. Sister doesn't. Seems to be different departments with different cultures.

Personally I deal with Revenue a lot and find them reasonably good 80% of the time (if not a bit slow to respond on things). On the other hand I also deal with the Dept of Social Protection regularly and have yet to have a good experience.

Dealings with the Immigration office leave me pulling my hair out in frustration.

Yeah this is true, I know from dealing with DSP in the past that they could be particularly slow. I wonder if it varies depending on seniority etc. Generally speaking I would have to assume it is the same as the public sector and it varies person to person.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Then he is a liar.

Good to know constructive discussion is still live and well.

bobbysands81 · 11-07-2018 1:00am

theyoungchap wrote: »

If you want to experience something different every few years, move up the ladder based on ability rather than service, and to have hard work and effort rewarded, then you move on. You might have bumps along the way, occasional unemployment, etc, but that won't be forever either.

That would be my take on it anyway. To each their own I suppose.

This is the type of clueless comment on the CS that is incredibly annoying.

theyoungchap · 11-07-2018 8:45am

bobbysands81 wrote: »

This is the type of clueless comment on the CS that is incredibly annoying.

Do elaborate (and bear in mind I have worked there as well, so I don't think it is "clueless")

4ensic15 · 11-07-2018 8:56am

bobbysands81 wrote: »

This is the type of clueless comment on the CS that is incredibly annoying.

Typical comment of the cheerleader civil servant.

Claw Hammer · 11-07-2018 1:02pm

theyoungchap wrote: »

If I spent 30 years in the CS to get it, I would probably be in St. John of God having wished my life away to get to the point I can enjoy my pension.

There is much more to life than a pension pot you know. The thoughts of spending my life in a soul-destroying work environment, full of laziness, clock watchers, etc just to get to a point in my life where I can enjoy a pension, I just don't get how or why anybody could do it.

I would tolerate redundancies, unemployment, etc in preference. Good times and bad, roll with the punches, rather than spend my life in such a miserable environment.

It is going to be worse spending 30 years in retirement, living on the clippings of tin, while you watch former civil servants living in relative comfort with inflation proofed pensions.

theyoungchap · 11-07-2018 2:20pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It is going to be worse spending 30 years in retirement, living on the clippings of tin, while you watch former civil servants living in relative comfort with inflation proofed pensions.

Is your sole goal in life to get a decent pension? If that is the best selling point for the CS then I despair.

My pension pot is developing nicely too I will have you know......and I won't spend 30-35 years of misery in the interim.

Weren't you the guy who was banned from posting on the Thai cave rescue for saying the teacher deserved to die? Says it all.....

bobbysands81 · 11-07-2018 3:32pm

theyoungchap wrote: »

Do elaborate (and bear in mind I have worked there as well, so I don't think it is "clueless")

“If you want to experience something different every few years, move up the ladder based on ability rather than service, and to have hard work and effort rewarded, then you move on.”

Mobility within the CS means that you’re moved around every few years. You get loads of chances to experience something different. I’ve worked on a huge array of projects, inquiries, legislation, policy, operations etc... without having to leave my employer. I’ve worked in 4 different Department in my time in the CS.

Also, there is no such thing as seniority whatsoever when it comes to promotion in the Civil Service, the amount of service you have is utterly irrelevant. Promotions are solely on ability and merit. Who you know or how long you’re in the job count for absolutely nothing.

HydroTendonMan · 11-07-2018 3:56pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

“If you want to experience something different every few years, move up the ladder based on ability rather than service, and to have hard work and effort rewarded, then you move on.”

Mobility within the CS means that you’re moved around every few years. You get loads of chances to experience something different. I’ve worked on a huge array of projects, inquiries, legislation, policy, operations etc... without having to leave my employer. I’ve worked in 4 different Department in my time in the CS.

Also, there is no such thing as seniority whatsoever when it comes to promotion in the Civil Service, the amount of service you have is utterly irrelevant. Promotions are solely on ability and merit. Who you know or how long you’re in the job count for absolutely nothing.

How many threads has this been mentioned in where it is completely ignored by people bashing the civil service and its cronyism?

It should be a sticky at the top of the forum at this point

Wanderer2010 · 11-07-2018 3:57pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

“Also, there is no such thing as seniority whatsoever when it comes to promotion in the Civil Service, the amount of service you have is utterly irrelevant. Promotions are solely on ability and merit. Who you know or how long you’re in the job count for absolutely nothing.

I find that extremely hard to believe. Every single job on the planet is a lot of "who you know" plus from my own experiences, lads who got into offices and civil servant jobs generally got in because their mother/father/aunt etc put in a word. To claim otherwise is rubbish.

Claw Hammer · 11-07-2018 3:57pm

theyoungchap wrote: »

Is your sole goal in life to get a decent pension? If that is the best selling point for the CS then I despair.

My pension pot is developing nicely too I will have you know......and I won't spend 30-35 years of misery in the interim.

Weren't you the guy who was banned from posting on the Thai cave rescue for saying the teacher deserved to die? Says it all.....

My sole goal in life is not to get a decent pension, however it is a very significant ambition not to spend the latter part of my life piss poor, like I spent the initial period of it.

HydroTendonMan · 11-07-2018 3:59pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I find that extremely hard to believe. Every single job on the planet is a lot of "who you know" plus from my own experiences, lads who got into offices and civil servant jobs generally got in because their mother/father/aunt etc put in a word. To claim otherwise is rubbish.

No to claim otherwise is fact. And public information if you are bothered to search for it.

Maybe this was once the case, but it is all done now via open competition.

relax carry on · 11-07-2018 4:04pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I find that extremely hard to believe. Every single job on the planet is a lot of "who you know" plus from my own experiences, lads who got into offices and civil servant jobs generally got in because their mother/father/aunt etc put in a word. To claim otherwise is rubbish.

The thread is about the civil service not the public sector in general. Do you know how recruitment works in the Civil Service? Your post is pretty much tabloid rubbish re Civil Service recruitment.

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/what-we-do

theyoungchap · 11-07-2018 4:08pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

My sole goal in life is not to get a decent pension, however it is a very significant ambition not to spend the latter part of my life piss poor, like I spent the initial period of it.

I can assure you, plenty of us in the private sector will not be poor in our retirement either, and won't work in a miserable soul destroying environment in the meantime to get it.

Sure we could all be dead by the time we get there, just like you hoped the teacher in the Thai cave would be...........

Claw Hammer · 11-07-2018 4:11pm

theyoungchap wrote: »

I can assure you, plenty of us in the private sector will not be poor in our retirement either, and won't work in a miserable soul destroying environment in the meantime to get it.

Sure we could all be dead by the time we get there, just like you hoped the teacher in the Thai cave would be...........

typical retort, dodge the subject, attacked the poster. According to the laws of probability most of us will be alive and for a considerable period after the normal retirement age. Not providing for a pension on the basis that you might not need it is utter stupidity!

theyoungchap · 11-07-2018 4:13pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

typical retort, dodge the subject, attacked the poster. According to the laws of probability most of us will be alive and for a considerable period after the normal retirement age. Not providing for a pension on the basis that you might not need it is utter stupidity!

Where did I say it was? What part of "I can assure you, plenty of us in the private sector will not be poor in our retirement either" didn't you understand?

My point is that I would not be willing to spend 30 miserable years in the PS for the sake of a pension, which was what the OP was asking. You seem to suggest it is the sole goal in life.

To each their own I guess, but for me I would have lost the will to live long before I got to enjoy the pension which seems to be your goal in life.

Claw Hammer · 11-07-2018 4:25pm

theyoungchap wrote: »

Where did I say it was? What part of "I can assure you, plenty of us in the private sector will not be poor in our retirement either" didn't you understand?

My point is that I would not be willing to spend 30 miserable years in the PS for the sake of a pension, which was what the OP was asking. You seem to suggest it is the sole goal in life.

To each their own I guess, but for me I would have lost the will to live long before I got to enjoy the pension which seems to be your goal in life.

You ignored the question as to whether you will have €2 million saved by the time you retire. You also saying that you might be dead or have lost the will to live by the time you reach retirement age, which does not imply any degree of planning or foresight. You've also resorted to making personal attacks. A pension is a major consideration in anybody's life. When someone gets too old to work, the sacrifices to secure their pension seem a lot less.

facehugger99 · 11-07-2018 4:27pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It is going to be worse spending 30 years in retirement, living on the clippings of tin, while you watch former civil servants living in relative comfort with inflation proofed pensions.

I'd be far more concerned about my pension if I worked in the public service.

At least in the private service, your pension is actually funded by real money.

Public service pensions are a ponzi scheme and funded out of current expenditure. The public service pensions of those who retired 20 years ago are being paid for by today's workers out of the tax that they contribute to revenue every year.

Given the demographic trends, I would not be confident that there will be cash in the pot to pay today's public servants when they retire in 20 or 30 years time.

Will a smaller working population in 2045 be prepared to accept punitive rates of taxation to keep public servants in the style they've become accustomed to?

Doubtful I would think

Claw Hammer · 11-07-2018 4:33pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'd be far more concerned about my pension if I worked in the public service.

At least in the private service, your pension is actually funded by real money.

Public service pensions are a ponzi scheme and funded out of current expenditure. The public service pensions of those who retired 20 years ago are being paid for by today's workers out of the tax that they contribute to revenue every year.

Given the demographic trends, I would not be confident that there will be cash in the pot to pay today's public servants when they retire in 20 or 30 years time.

Will a smaller working population in 2045 be prepared to accept punitive rates of taxation to keep public servants in the style they've become accustomed to?

Doubtful I would think

In the private sector, the pension has to be paid by those at work. The pension money is invested in shares and stocks. If these investments fail, then the pension disappears. I know a man who was very senior in his company whose pension simply stopped 10 years ago. He is now working and is well into his 70s. Many company pensions have been left underfunded and are not paying out. Individuals need personal savings and investments outside of schemes in order to be more certain of an income in retirement. The generation at work always pays for the retired generation. There is little doubt that the demographic trend is towards a large elderly cohort in the population with a smaller proportion in the working court. There will be trouble.

realdanbreen · 11-07-2018 4:34pm

Publicsector OP wrote: »

Evening,

I am working in the civil service and finished my probation. I still don’t know if I am in for the long game or if it the culture is something I can live with happily. I am looking at what friends are getting in the private sector and some job advertisements. I am probably in the same boat as a lot of people who joined after the last recruitment embargo in that regard. The pay isn’t anything to write home about and the pension isn’t as gold plated as it once was (if it ever was).

That said it has a lot of benefits such as job security, flexible working hours and holidays. I really like that my in my current role instead of making money for a corporation I get the chance to contribute something to society on a daily basis. That is not to put down people who work in the private sector and contribute taxes. For the most part I like my colleagues and get on with them.

Down the line the civil service can provide continued training/education and whilst the pension isn’t as good as a lot of my older colleagues, it is a secure pension.

I dislike the bureaucracy (who doesn’t?!) and culture. The first I am coming to terms with and I can live with. The culture I don’t know about. Some of my colleagues are very hard workers, some are okay and finally their is a cohort of individuals who clocked out mentally sometime ago and/or wouldn’t hold down a job elsewhere for various reasons. My issue wouldn’t be so much the individuals but that the culture despite lip service to change appears to be a don’t rock the boat and instead of managing the issues, let others pick up the slack and transfer the more difficult workers to elsewhere.

Their is no carrot for good workers and no stick for underperformance. I don’t know if I can work within that culture for 40 years as someone who is hard working and wants to be rewarded/recognized for that effort. A lot of the bad apples/poor workers are upon retirement going to have a better deal then me in all likelihood. That can be hard to put aside for me on a daily basis, despite all the other great things going for my current job!

For those who have faced this same dilemma before and left or stayed in the service, did yous regret it?

You'll be grand.
If you were unsure about whether you could 'work within that culture for 40 years' then you would simply have plans made to get out ASAP. So relax you won't feel until it's 2058!

theyoungchap · 11-07-2018 4:37pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You also saying that you might be dead or have lost the will to live by the time you reach retirement age, which does not imply any degree of planning or foresight.

I have a pension fund which is performing fine thank you. Maybe re-read (if you can) my point re having lost the will to live - my point was I would have lost the will to live if I spent 30+ years in PS.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You've also resorted to making personal attacks.

Well somebody who hoped the Thai schoolteacher (who you have no idea what he did to save those young childrens lives) died in a cave rather than be rescued deserves nothing better.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

A pension is a major consideration in anybody's life.

It is, but it is only one consideration. It is not the be all and end all. There are other ways to fund retirement you know. Plenty of people in the private sector will own property which is practically guaranteed to inflate in value......don't think your PS pension is the only way to look after yourself in retirement.

Claw Hammer · 11-07-2018 4:40pm

theyoungchap wrote: »

I have a pension fund which is performing fine thank you. Maybe re-read (if you can) my point re having lost the will to live - my point was I would have lost the will to live if I spent 30+ years in PS.

Well somebody who hoped the Thai schoolteacher (who you have no idea what he did to save those young childrens lives) died in a cave rather than be rescued deserves nothing better.

It is, but it is only one consideration. It is not the be all and end all. There are other ways to fund retirement you know. Plenty of people in the private sector will own property which is practically guaranteed to inflate in value......don't think your PS pension is the only way to look after yourself in retirement.

How much property do you have? Property is not guaranteed to inflate in value. It goes through cycles. 6 or 7 years ago, it was very difficult to rent out property. Sometimes locations change, or there are long void periods. There can also be difficulties getting the rent from tenants. It is far from a surefire thing.

theyoungchap · 11-07-2018 4:44pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

How much property do you have? Property is not guaranteed to inflate in value. It goes through cycles. 6 or 7 years ago, it was very difficult to rent out property. Sometimes locations change, or there are long void periods. There can also be difficulties getting the rent from tenants. It is far from a surefire thing.

Property in the right place will always make you money my good man, and will over 30-40 years is a more sure bet than your pension fund is.

Claw Hammer · 11-07-2018 4:49pm

theyoungchap wrote: »

Property in the right place will always make you money my good man, and will over 30-40 years is a more sure bet than your pension fund is.

How much property do you have? Where is the right place?

11-07-2018 5:06pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You ignored the question as to whether you will have €2 million saved by the time you retire. ...........

Go through this bit for us again, detailing the actual figures so we can understand what civil servants get pensions that would require a €2m pension pot. I don't think many of them end up on €80k/annum in their retirement days tbh but I'm all ears.

theyoungchap · 11-07-2018 5:42pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

theyoungchap wrote: »

Property in the right place will always make you money my good man, and will over 30-40 years is a more sure bet than your pension fund is.

How much property do you have? Where is the right place?

Go do your own research....

bobbysands81 · 11-07-2018 7:01pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I find that extremely hard to believe. Every single job on the planet is a lot of "who you know" plus from my own experiences, lads who got into offices and civil servant jobs generally got in because their mother/father/aunt etc put in a word. To claim otherwise is rubbish.

I don’t even know where to start with that comment.

If somebody even tries to put in a word for you in a competition you are automatically disqualified.

Can you provide one single shred of proof to back your assertion?

4ensic15 · 11-07-2018 7:21pm

HydroTendonMan wrote: »

No to claim otherwise is fact. And public information if you are bothered to search for it.

Maybe this was once the case, but it is all done now via open competition.

Typical cheerleader civil servant comment. "That is all in the past. We are pure now."

relax carry on · 11-07-2018 7:44pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

Typical cheerleader civil servant comment. "That is all in the past. We are pure now."

Seriously do any of you know or understand how the recruitment process works in the Civil Service? I posted the link for PAS earlier. Knock yourselves out.

4ensic15 · 11-07-2018 7:46pm

How come all of the Chairmen of the Revenue Commissioners for decades were members of the Knights of Columbanus?

bobbysands81 · 11-07-2018 8:51pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

How come all of the Chairmen of the Revenue Commissioners for decades were members of the Knights of Columbanus?

Ha ha ha!!!

Tell us more about this, I’ve not heard it before.

4ensic15 · 11-07-2018 9:06pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Ha ha ha!!!

Tell us more about this, I’ve not heard it before.

Sean Bedford, Chairman in the 1960s, Supreme Knight. All his successors for years after were Knights.

Nermal · 11-07-2018 9:12pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

Will a smaller working population in 2045 be prepared to accept punitive rates of taxation to keep public servants in the style they've become accustomed to?

Doubtful I would think

Let me get this straight: pensioners are already the most powerful group in our society, and you think that in the future when there are way more of them, the rules will be changed to their disadvantage?

If anything, having a defined contribution pot is a liability. Who do you think will face a 'levy' to bail out our public sector?

bobbysands81 · 11-07-2018 9:45pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

Sean Bedford, Chairman in the 1960s, Supreme Knight. All his successors for years after were Knights.

Really? You’ve not told me much about it yet, as I said I’m interested in your story about it and why you think it’s important.

4ensic15 · 11-07-2018 9:55pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Really? You’ve not told me much about it yet, as I said I’m interested in your story about it and why you think it’s important.

Do you doubt it?

relax carry on · 11-07-2018 9:56pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

How come all of the Chairmen of the Revenue Commissioners for decades were members of the Knights of Columbanus?

Ok, we are off on some mad tangent here.

I'll try again. Do you know how the recruitment process works in the Civil Service? I'm guessing by the quote above, the answer is no. Please have a look at PAS. There might even be a job you can apply for there.

4ensic15 · 11-07-2018 9:58pm

relax carry on wrote: »

Ok, we are off on some mad tangent here.

I'll try again. Do you know how the recruitment process works in the Civil Service? I'm guessing by the quote above, the answer is no. Please have a look at PAS. There might even be a job you can apply for there.

There is the public posturing and then there is the reality. I have no intention of applying for any job on public jobs or anywhere else.

bobbysands81 · 11-07-2018 10:09pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

Do you doubt it?

Not at all. I’m wondering what significance you attach to it though and how it’s relevant to today.

Trying to get info out of you though is a bit like “chase me, chase me.”

relax carry on · 11-07-2018 10:16pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

There is the public posturing and then there is the reality.

So you believe the entire independent recruitment process for the civil service is compromised by people in the know who have managed to get over 37500 of their family and friends into jobs ahead of everyone else? My tinfoil hat off to you sir.

11-07-2018 10:33pm

theyoungchap wrote: »

Look at how long it takes to get to HEO level and the salary connected with it - if you were any good at all, you would be on way more than that in about half the time in the PS.

youre talking rubbish, to be honest.

tell me now how long it takes to become a HEO in the civil service. put a figure on it.

ill tell you what % of new entrants in the departments ive worked for will beat that.

ill even ignore that you can easily join the CS at HEO/AO/AP level now.

frankly, and seeing as youre so very certain of your statements being universal (the rueful overheard remark about pitt the younger comes to mind- "i wish i was half so sure of anything as you are about everything") i would perhaps note that if you joined a department, sat there clockwatching and hating it, tis little feckin wonder you have a very skewed notion of the career it can be, and a very skewed notion of what it takes to get ahead in it- and how quickly it can be done with the same initiative and applied effort that would see you a success in any sector.

ive never been told "slow down".

ive never seen anyone "go home sick at lunch on a training course"

its absolute piddle.

sounds to me like you took yr prejudices in with you and they did you no favours tbph

uck51js9zml2yt · 11-07-2018 10:33pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It is going to be worse spending 30 years in retirement, living on the clippings of tin, while you watch former civil servants living in relative comfort with inflation proofed pensions.

Pensions aren't what they where. It's average salary over the period, not final salary as it was.

bobbysands81 · 11-07-2018 10:58pm

theyoungchap wrote: »

Look at how long it takes to get to HEO level and the salary connected with it - if you were any good at all, you would be on way more than that in about half the time in the PS. You can then save for your rainy day, which doesn't last as long in the PS as some would have you believe......

But as I say, to each their own.

There was a moratorium for about 8 years, how was it possible to get promoted then?

11-07-2018 11:05pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'd be far more concerned about my pension if I worked in the public service.

At least in the private service, your pension is actually funded by real money.

Public service pensions are a ponzi scheme and funded out of current expenditure. The public service pensions of those who retired 20 years ago are being paid for by today's workers out of the tax that they contribute to revenue every year.

Given the demographic trends, I would not be confident that there will be cash in the pot to pay today's public servants when they retire in 20 or 30 years time.

Will a smaller working population in 2045 be prepared to accept punitive rates of taxation to keep public servants in the style they've become accustomed to?

Doubtful I would think

as always comes up on this point:

public sector pensions are, to the best theoretical knowledge ive heard (from the person likely to advise the govt on this point of policy) treatable as salary earned.

the govt would likely have to be in the position of defaulting before legally unilaterally moving on pensions earned.

of course its ridiculously moot. pensions have changed twice in the relevant timeframe and projections and fantasies such as above are now...hmm lemme see...23 years out of date (i know a few AOs born since then btw).

pension costs are covered and provisioned more securely, openly and safely than any if the above suggests. again its nonsense. again, it should be on a sticky. the point is factually incoherent and should be rejected out of hand.

AndrewJRenko · 11-07-2018 11:05pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I find that extremely hard to believe. Every single job on the planet is a lot of "who you know" plus from my own experiences, lads who got into offices and civil servant jobs generally got in because their mother/father/aunt etc put in a word. To claim otherwise is rubbish.

So please do share your experiences in more detail - when did this happen? What level did the lads get in at? And what departments? And how did mammy/daddy know who to put the word in with, given that interview panels are only selected a week or two before interview? Was it just coincidence that mammy/daddy found that they knew the interviewers out of the 37.5k people in the service?

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'd be far more concerned about my pension if I worked in the public service.
,,,,
Will a smaller working population in 2045 be prepared to accept punitive rates of taxation to keep public servants in the style they've become accustomed to?

Doubtful I would think

There is indeed an issue here, as I keep reminding Eddie Hobbs when he talks about gold plated. It's not about keeping anyone in the style they've become accustomed to. It is about keeping contractual commitments - paying debts. Are you suggesting that it's a good idea for future governments to walk away from their contractual debts?

theyoungchap wrote: »

Property in the right place will always make you money my good man, and will over 30-40 years is a more sure bet than your pension fund is.

Make sure you put the cost of your time spent managing a property into your calculation. AIB don't ring shareholders on Saturday nights to fix the washing machine. Make sure you put the benefit of 40% tax relief into your calculation.

4ensic15 wrote: »

How come all of the Chairmen of the Revenue Commissioners for decades were members of the Knights of Columbanus?

4ensic15 wrote: »

Sean Bedford, Chairman in the 1960s, Supreme Knight. All his successors for years after were Knights.

For how many years after were his successors Knights? And do you have any credible source for your claims?

4ensic15 wrote: »

There is the public posturing and then there is the reality. I have no intention of applying for any job on public jobs or anywhere else.

Reality indeed - any chance of a source or two for your claims?

Peter Faint Pane wrote: »

Pensions aren't what they where. It's average salary over the period, not final salary as it was.

Just to clarify, that's the case for new entrants, post-2013.

Stick or twist in Civil Service?

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