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Not working notice period

  • 07-07-2020 11:23pm
    #1
    Torres999
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭


    Hi there

    I have a 3 month notice period and was unable to negotiate this down with my employer. I have been treated badly so I don’t really have any loyalty to them and have only worked there for 10 months.

    Can I just leave after 2 months instead of 3? What are the chances that I would be sued? My boss is a psychopath so could just sue me for the sake of it.


«13

Comments

  • #2
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    It will be fine.
    Pass them a letter stating your last date you are working.

    As for being sued.
    To win a case they would need substantial evidence to demonstrate you specifically are central to the business and that it will suffer significantly by you not remaining on after the statutory notice period set out in legislation.

    I think offering to stay two months is generous. Personally I’d be thinking 4 weeks tops.


  • #3
    antix80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Go on unpaid sick leave. He'll never see you again.


  • #4
    lickalot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭lickalot


    Just do a month, unless you are absolutely critical to the business like a directors role or the only accountant, only programmer, only network guru etc.


  • #5
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    Why did you sign a contract with a 3 month notice period?

    A potential employer tried that years ago. When I questioned it they said it was a typo and changed it to 1 month.

    No way would I sign a contract with a 3 month notice period.


  • #6
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Torres999 wrote: »
    Hi there

    I have a 3 month notice period and was unable to negotiate this down with my employer. I have been treated badly so I don’t really have any loyalty to them and have only worked there for 10 months.

    Can I just leave after 2 months instead of 3? What are the chances that I would be sued? My boss is a psychopath so could just sue me for the sake of it.

    Nobody can give you a definitive answer on something like this because we can't predict how your employer will respond.

    In most cases, the likely outcome would be that the employer might be pi**ed off, probably not give you a reference and that is about it.

    It is of course possible that you might be sued, but it is unlikely that they would win and once this is explained by the legal advisors to the company they would leave it at that. But if you really are dealing with someone out for revenge and don't care about the costs.... they might still go a head.

    On balance I'd expect noting to happen beyond a bit of unpleasantness and no reference letter.... but there is always the possibility of the unexpected.


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  • #7
    Esse85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭Esse85


    The fact your only there 10 months, I'd of thought you'd have to give far less notice.

    I mean the company could get rid of you over night if they wanted to, it should be the same for both parties.


  • #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Esse85 wrote: »
    The fact your only there 10 months, I'd of thought you'd have to give far less notice.

    I mean the company could get rid of you over night if they wanted to, it should be the same for both parties.

    You are referring to statutory minimum periods of notice there, your contract of employment which was agreed, may have a longer notice period which both sides would be bound by. The reality is though, an employee is far more likely to take action against an employer for not adhering to it than the other way around.


  • #9
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,595 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Esse85 wrote: »
    I mean the company could get rid of you over night if they wanted to, .
    No they can't.

    OP's contract likely has similar terms that go both ways.
    Torres999 wrote: »
    Hi there

    I have a 3 month notice period and was unable to negotiate this down with my employer. I have been treated badly so I don’t really have any loyalty to them and have only worked there for 10 months.

    Can I just leave after 2 months instead of 3? What are the chances that I would be sued? My boss is a psychopath so could just sue me for the sake of it.
    What's the terms of your employment? Is it a permanent, or a fixed term?

    If 12 months fixed term, you are not obliged to renew. And the 2 months notice is reasonable. If longer, you are in a worse spot.


    He's not going to sue you over leaving a month early. However, if he's a psycho like you say, he may dock your pay, with penalties relating to filling your role. It's be a lot more hassle for you to fight for that.
    Sick pay/stress leave wasn't a bad suggestion. Get a doctor to sign you off due to unhealthy work environment.


  • #10
    Esse85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭Esse85


    Mellor wrote: »
    No they can't.

    OP's contract likely has similar terms that go both ways.

    Employer only has to give a weeks notice in this case.


  • #11
    Shelflife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,075 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    Just curious, if the employer decided tomorrow to let you go and decided to just pay you one months notice, how many of the above advising the OP would be happy with that ?


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  • #12
    Esse85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭Esse85


    Shelflife wrote: »
    Just curious, if the employer decided tomorrow to let you go and decided to just pay you one months notice, how many of the above advising the OP would be happy with that ?

    Well they only have to pay 1 week, so to get 4 would be a big win.


  • #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Esse85 wrote: »
    Well they only have to pay 1 week, so to get 4 would be a big win.

    Again that depends on the terms of the employee contract, there is a difference between statutory minimum and contractual agreement.


  • #14
    Shelflife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,075 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    Esse85 wrote: »
    Well they only have to pay 1 week, so to get 4 would be a big win.

    Nope, under the OPs contract theres a 3 month notice period.

    There would appear to be a lot of people happy to ignore the employees contractual obligation, but would be roaring at the employer is they tried to pull the same stunt.


  • #15
    Esse85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭Esse85


    Shelflife wrote: »
    Nope, under the OPs contract theres a 3 month notice period.

    There would appear to be a lot of people happy to ignore the employees contractual obligation, but would be roaring at the employer is they tried to pull the same stunt.

    3 months for the employee to give as per contract, 1 weeks notice for the employer to give employee when when from 13 weeks to 2 years.


  • #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Esse85 wrote: »
    3 months for the employee to give as per contract, 1 weeks notice for the employer to give employee when when from 13 weeks to 2 years.

    You’ve read the op’s contract?


  • #17
    Esse85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭Esse85


    Dav010 wrote: »
    You’ve read the op’s contract?

    The OP has said his employer requests 3 months notice in the contract.


  • #18
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Esse85 wrote: »
    The OP has said his employer requests 3 months notice in the contract.

    And I have yet to see an employment contract that did not have the same notice period for both parties.... so where did you get the idea that there are two different notice periods in the OPs contract?


  • #19
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,595 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Esse85 wrote: »
    Employer only has to give a weeks notice in this case.

    Do you have extra information that nobody else does?

    A contract with 1 week notice for one party and 3 months for another would be very unusual. Although not impossible.


  • #20
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,345 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Shelflife wrote: »
    Nope, under the OPs contract theres a 3 month notice period.

    There would appear to be a lot of people happy to ignore the employees contractual obligation, but would be roaring at the employer is they tried to pull the same stunt.

    The Three month notice doesn't count for the first year as an employ can be easily let go in that period. Also there would be nothing the employer can do about it as it is against natural justice to prevent an employee from earning a living by going to another employer.

    Employment contracts preventing employees moving to another employer are unenforceable here unless it can be definitively proven that it harms the previous employer. e.g taking direct clients or provable information that will do harm to the company.

    As the op has only been there ten months, it's impossible to enforce such an indenture of servitude upon them.

    As for your bit in bold. The employer could go out of business in that time and there's no contractual answer for the employee.


  • #21
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,595 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    The Three month notice doesn't count for the first year as an employ can be easily let go in that period.
    That depends entirely on the terms of the contract. Any contract I’ve had with a reduced notice during probation went both ways.
    Also there would be nothing the employer can do about it as it is against natural justice to prevent an employee from earning a living by going to another employer.

    Employment contracts preventing employees moving to another employer are unenforceable here unless it can be definitively proven that it harms the previous employer. e.g taking direct clients or provable information that will do harm to the company.
    He’s not prevented from earning a living. He’ll get paid for those 3 months, while he looks for a new employer.
    You are describing a situation where somebody is restricted from working AFTER notice. Which can happen for senior management and the likes.
    As the op has only been there ten months, it's impossible to enforce such an indenture of servitude upon them.
    I agree it’s a ridiculous notice period. But maybe there’s a reason for it. And maybe not. Seems silly to assume without more info
    As for your bit in bold. The employer could go out of business in that time and there's no contractual answer for the employee.
    Or the employee could die.
    There are legal process in place to deal with these things.


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  • #22
    Esse85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭Esse85


    Mellor wrote: »
    Do you have extra information that nobody else does?

    A contract with 1 week notice for one party and 3 months for another would be very unusual. Although not impossible.

    It's a pretty regular occurance actually for the employer to require far more notice than the employee.


  • #23
    Esse85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭Esse85


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    And I have yet to see an employment contract that did not have the same notice period for both parties.... so where did you get the idea that there are two different notice periods in the OPs contract?

    I've seen it many a time, the OP has mentioned it in his opening post. It's in his contract. He's "agreed" and signed the contract therefore indicating he's happy with the terms and conditions of giving 3 months notice.

    Companies are out to suit themselves and do what's best for them. If your not happy with this then don't sign for the company for renegotiate before signing.

    Meanwhile the law states a company only has to give you a weeks notice when you've been with them 13 weeks - 2 years.


  • #24
    padser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭padser


    Esse85 wrote: »
    It's a pretty regular occurance actually for the employer to require far more notice than the employee.

    I'm reasonably sure it's not. I've never come across it. I'm not aware of a specific reason it cant be done, but it's never been in any employment contract I've seen or heard of.

    I'm unsure whether it would be enforceable, I guess maybe

    I think there is a lot of confusion between statutatory minimum notice periods and contractual notice periods on this thread.

    That statutory minimum is the "1 week after months etc". It means two things

    1) the contractual notice period can never be less
    2) if there is no contractual notice period, this is the period that applies

    The statutory minimum applies to both employer and employee.

    The contractual period (which in this case is 3 months) supersedes statutory one assuming its longer (which it is). In the absence of the OP stating that it only applies to the employee - it makes sense to assume it applies both ways - that is standard. .

    @OP - notice periods are generally not enforceable by companies on employees in ireland. There are many reasons, but mostly because you cant really be forced to work for someone.

    Breaking a notice period can have repercussions such as not getting a reference etc.

    Breaking a notice period and attempting to take another job, in particular for a compeitor could leave you open to action.

    Technically breaking a notice period could also leave you open to some action but as far as I remember the company would need to show loss / harm which is generally tough. It's extremely unusual for a company to try and take this type of action unless you are at a v senior level. If you are, then take proper legal advice. PM me and I'll recommend an employment specialist.


  • #25
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,495 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Torres999 wrote: »
    What are the chances that I would be sued?

    0.0001%

    Whether he is a psychopath or not, you could just never show up again and there would be effectively nothing he could do about it, never mind leaving early in the notice period.


  • #26
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,595 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Esse85 wrote: »
    It's a pretty regular occurance actually for the employer to require far more notice than the employee.
    A week or two maybe. 3 months more? I can’t imagine that’s common at all.
    If people have agreed to that, they’ve been had.


  • #27
    Esse85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭Esse85


    Mellor wrote: »
    A week or two maybe. 3 months more? I can’t imagine that’s common at all.
    If people have agreed to that, they’ve been had.

    Quiet common in sales.


  • #28
    1hnr79jr65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 916 ✭✭✭1hnr79jr65


    Mellor wrote: »
    A week or two maybe. 3 months more? I can’t imagine that’s common at all.
    If people have agreed to that, they’ve been had.

    Common in pharma.


  • #29
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Esse85 wrote: »
    It's a pretty regular occurance actually for the employer to require far more notice than the employee.

    It most certainly is not.


  • #30
    Esse85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭Esse85


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    It most certainly is not.

    I can confirm it's common in sales.
    Another poster above just said its common in pharma.


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  • #31
    C3PO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭C3PO


    Esse85 wrote: »
    I can confirm it's common in sales.
    Another poster above just said its common in pharma.

    That’s not what he said - he said that 3 months notice is common in Pharma!
    I have never seen a contract where the notice terms are not the same on both sides! I’m not saying that they don’t exist but they are not usual!


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