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Planning Permission for signage

  • 19-05-2019 6:35pm
    #1
    Joe Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭


    A company originally got planning permission to erect advertising signage at the entrance to the small industrial estate where they resided. About 10 years ago they moved to a new location in a different town. They insist that the signage at the original location has to stay as they got planning permission for it and argue they still get business by having the signs there.
    My question is, do they have a right to keep the old signage in situ?

    County Council planning say they don't know which is not very helpful.


Comments

  • #2
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    Is the planning permission for A sign or is the permission specifically for THAT sign?


  • #3
    Odelay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭Odelay


    Who owns the estate? They should have the last word in the sign even if it has planning permission? Are they charging them rent for the sign?


  • #4
    Joe Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Joe Public


    Odelay wrote: »
    Who owns the estate? They should have the last word in the sign even if it has planning permission? Are they charging them rent for the sign?

    The signs are just before the entrance to the estate on the public side.


  • #5
    Joe Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Joe Public


    Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »
    Is the planning permission for A sign or is the permission specifically for THAT sign?

    The permission is for a vertical structure that can take a few signs but the company in question is the only one on it.


  • #6
    Odelay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭Odelay


    Joe Public wrote: »
    The signs are just before the entrance to the estate on the public side.

    On council owned land? If then they’ll have to pay rent each year to the council.

    Who owns the land the sign is on?


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  • #7
    elperello
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    You might find it useful to check the file for the original PP.
    It will be available in the Planning Department of the Local Authority or possibly online.


  • #8
    Joe Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Joe Public


    Odelay wrote: »
    On council owned land? If then they’ll have to pay rent each year to the council.

    Who owns the land the sign is on?

    I think I better confirm who owns the property. The entrance gateway is set back from the footpath by about 4 meters and the sign is on the area between the main footpath and the entrance gate.


  • #9
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Joe Public wrote: »
    I think I better confirm who owns the property. The entrance gateway is set back from the footpath by about 4 meters and the sign is on the area between the main footpath and the entrance gate.

    Most likely private property then.


  • #10
    woohoo!!!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 803 ✭✭✭woohoo!!!


    Sounds like it was not foresaw that the planning for the signage would be for somewhere other than that industrial estate and therefore there wasn't a specific condition stating such.


  • #11
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    woohoo!!! wrote: »
    Sounds like it was not foresaw that the planning for the signage would be for somewhere other than that industrial estate and therefore there wasn't a specific condition stating such.

    In theory, the owners of the land, can leave the structure in place, but remove the company signage and replace it with signage for another company within the estate.


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  • #12
    Joe Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Joe Public


    I've searched for the original planning number from 1995 and there are no documents or conditions on the planning website.
    I asked someone who knows a little more than me and they say that commercial signage usually comes with a time limit, maybe 10 years or so, and then you have to apply again.
    I've asked the council for more info on the conditions, if any, that were attached to the granting of permission. Have to wait a few days for that and it costs €9.25 for the search.
    The signage is on private property, makes sense as you wouldn't otherwise get permission too easy.
    In theory a property owns to the middle of the road but that doesn't mean you do what you like with it.
    Some people modify the footpath to widen their entrance, without permission, but the council don't like that - more info from the person who knows more :)


  • #13
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Joe Public wrote: »
    I've searched for the original planning number from 1995 and there are no documents or conditions on the planning website.
    I asked someone who knows a little more than me and they say that commercial signage usually comes with a time limit, maybe 10 years or so, and then you have to apply again.
    I've asked the council for more info on the conditions, if any, that were attached to the granting of permission. Have to wait a few days for that and it costs €9.25 for the search.
    The signage is on private property, makes sense as you wouldn't otherwise get permission too easy.
    In theory a property owns to the middle of the road but that doesn't mean you do what you like with it.
    Some people modify the footpath to widen their entrance, without permission, but the council don't like that - more info from the person who knows more :)

    You will have to view the files at the public counter. Back then there was no privacy data thing on the application form, so they are not allowed display documents online. Only apps from around 2006 onwards.


  • #14
    Joe Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Joe Public


    Update - no conditions of any use along with the planning permission so that's not the solution.

    The permission is for
    Development Description: Erection of sign (2.8 metres high by 1.8 metres wide) at entrance

    It could be argued the permission is for the structure the sign is mounted on and not the sign itself. The structure is the main part with the sign affixed to it.

    However this is on KCC's website but when pointed out to planning they say they don't know.


    http://www.kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/Planning/SignagePolicy2013/Adopted%20Signage%20Policy.pdf


    5.7 Remove signage/advertisement where the business
    has ceased trading
    Any signage/advertisement associated with a business that has ceased
    trading shall be removed. In circumstances where such
    signage/advertisement remains in situ the Council may remove the
    signage/advertisement and recover its costs from the owner of the
    signage/advertisement.


  • #15
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,830 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    to play devils advocate here but....

    why is this even an issue?

    one sign on a multi sign structure obviously doesnt stop other business erecting similar signs


  • #16
    Joe Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Joe Public


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    to play devils advocate here but....

    why is this even an issue?

    one sign on a multi sign structure obviously doesnt stop other business erecting similar signs


    Trying to do a clean sweep, also lots of unauthorised signs in the same general area. Bit of a mess.


  • #17
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,830 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Joe Public wrote: »
    Trying to do a clean sweep, also lots of unauthorised signs in the same general area. Bit of a mess.

    so this is a litter / tidy towns kind of issue?


  • #18
    Joe Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Joe Public


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    so this is a litter / tidy towns kind of issue?

    That's one way of putting it!


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