Air pollution - are you worried ?

Johnny Jukebox · 19-05-2019 6:07pm #1

Sobering reading from the Guardian here;

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/may/17/air-pollution-may-be-damaging-every-organ-and-cell-in-the-body-finds-global-review

Any concerns for city center cycling commuters ?

Atlantic Dawn · 19-05-2019 6:13pm

Cars with DPF's removed and trucks with Adblue defeat devices fitted make the air quality when cycling not very good at all, neither are policed whatsoever in this country.

Alf Veedersane · 19-05-2019 6:21pm

European Environment Agency report from last year said that particulate matter (PM2.5) was responsible for 1100 premature deaths in Ireland in 2015. Just to add an Irish angle to the link in the OP.

ednwireland · 19-05-2019 6:26pm

a lot cleaner then when I used to commute in a city 25 years ago used to wash black dirt out of my hair after the cycle home.

Wishbone Ash · 19-05-2019 6:49pm

I'd imagine that not cycling is a lot more damaging for health than possible air pollution. I'm not worried regardless.

terrydel · 19-05-2019 7:16pm

Air conditioning in the workplace bothers me more. It's a curse.

Beasty · 19-05-2019 9:20pm

Dublin is going to be relatively low down the table in terms of "scale" of pollution. Either way though, it's there if your're cycling, walking or sat on a bus with the windows open

Simplest solution - move away from big cities. Completely impractical for most though. Equally the way we are destroying the planet's resources and polluting the atmosphere we're all probably going to die anyway :pac:

Of course it's not that long since it was smog all over the place. Maybe we're just going to see a bit of a reversal of previously increasing life expectancy

tomasrojo · 19-05-2019 11:58pm

If you're going to the city centre, cycling and walking appear to be better options with regard to breathing in pollutants than travelling in a car.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jun/12/children-risk-air-pollution-cars-former-uk-chief-scientist-warns

magicbastarder · 20-05-2019 8:41am

i wonder how much difference that dublin being a pretty much low rise city makes; it's possible that airflow is better at street level in the city centre.
that said, our office is out in leopardstown and on cold still mornings you can see a brown haze over dublin; IIRC it's a temperature inversion and lack of wind which prevents the pollution being carried away.

that said, i don't worry much about pollution. i'd clearly prefer it wasn't there, obviously. the causes of that pollution - too many motorised vehicles - is a greater concern than the pollution itself.

Chips Lovell · 20-05-2019 9:53am

tomasrojo wrote: »

If you're going to the city centre, cycling and walking appear to be better options with regard to breathing in pollutants than travelling in a car.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jun/12/children-risk-air-pollution-cars-former-uk-chief-scientist-warns

Correct. Other than staying out of the city entirely, travelling by bike is probably the safest way from an air pollution standpoint.

Wishbone Ash · 20-05-2019 11:52am

Beasty wrote: »

.. we're all probably going to die anyway :pac:.....

Probably?

Most definitely (unless you have discovered the secret of eternal life). :pac:

07Lapierre · 20-05-2019 12:50pm

Of all things cyclists have to deal with on Irish roads, air pollution is pretty low on the list of concerns.

AndrewJRenko · 21-05-2019 3:07pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Cars with DPF's removed and trucks with Adblue defeat devices fitted make the air quality when cycling not very good at all, neither are policed whatsoever in this country.

Wouldn't these be caught at NCT?

What's the thinking behind these devices - fuel costs?

tomasrojo · 21-05-2019 5:38pm

Air quality in Ireland is generally of a high standard across the country and is amongst the best in Europe; however, levels of some pollutants remain of concern, with those produced by traffic approaching limit values in urban centres.

http://www.epa.ie/air/quality/

I think the air quality in most major cities in Europe exceed limit values quite frequently, so it's not too bad. I'm not sure how thorough the EPA's monitoring is though.

magicbastarder · 21-05-2019 5:45pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What's the thinking behind these devices - fuel costs?

i'm no mechanic, but anything which impedes airflow - DPFs, catalytic converters, etc., would reduce an engine's efficiency and/or power AFAIK.

Wishbone Ash · 21-05-2019 5:59pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Wouldn't these be caught at NCT?

What's the thinking behind these devices - fuel costs?

The problem with DPF's is that so many people are using diesel cars as 'runabouts' or sitting in congested roads for many hours every weeks rather than for high mileage on open roads which they are designed for. The DPF then becomes clogged up and the warning light comes on. Some companies offer to bypass the DPF to prevent this from happening but this allows more pollutants into the atmosphere.

07Lapierre · 21-05-2019 8:53pm

AFAIK The NcT doesn't test for NOX gases.

AndrewJRenko · 21-05-2019 9:10pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The problem with DPF's is that so many people are using diesel cars as 'runabouts' or sitting in congested roads for many hours every weeks rather than for high mileage on open roads which they are designed for. The DPF then becomes clogged up and the warning light comes on. Some companies offer to bypass the DPF to prevent this from happening but this allows more pollutants into the atmosphere.

I've seen the problems with the warning light, but I didn't realise there were workaround 'solutions'. Would the NCT not show these up?

terrydel · 21-05-2019 9:14pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm no mechanic, but anything which impedes airflow - DPFs, catalytic converters, etc., would reduce an engine's efficiency and/or power AFAIK.

Lean air fuel ratio (more air to fuel) tends to increase efficiency, so yeah I think you're right.

Wishbone Ash · 21-05-2019 9:32pm

terrydel wrote: »

Lean air fuel ratio (more air to fuel) tends to increase efficiency, so yeah I think you're right.

I think it increases power also. My brother used to remove the air filter in his motorbike if he wanted to get somewhere fast. (I'd imagine it could damage the engine pretty quickly).

07Lapierre · 21-05-2019 9:45pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm no mechanic, but anything which impedes airflow - DPFs, catalytic converters, etc., would reduce an engine's efficiency and/or power AFAIK.

Yes and No. modern Euro 6 spec Diesel engines recycle the exhaust gases back into the engine to burn off the soot (black smoke) which improves the fuel efficiency figures. This also improves the performance of the engine, BUT only if you drive the engine at high revs. (Most people don't). So they are most efficient at motorway speeds when the engine is running very hot. But if you do a lot of city type driving, combined with a lot of engine stop/starting, the engine clogs up with soot and brings on the Engine light.

07Lapierre · 21-05-2019 9:49pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I think it increases power also. My brother used to remove the air filter in his motorbike if he wanted to get somewhere fast. (I'd imagine it could damage the engine pretty quickly).

Yes it could damage the engine if the filter is removed. Performance filters are usually "in-line" type filters, as opposed to the more restrictive/standard filters. More air = more oxygen in each cylinder, which gives a bigger bang. so anything that restricts air flow reduces power. Same goes for anything that restricts exhaust gases exiting the engine.

magicbastarder · 21-05-2019 10:10pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I've seen the problems with the warning light, but I didn't realise there were workaround 'solutions'.

one thing to try is a not quite italian tuneup. drive the car long enough to bring it up to temp and keep it there for a while (worked for a friend)

a german chap i worked a good few years ago, was telling me that there was a government website there where you entered the sort of driving you did and it'd tell you whether you should buy a petrol or diesel car.

Large bottle small glass · 22-05-2019 1:19pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

Yes and No. modern Euro 6 spec Diesel engines recycle the exhaust gases back into the engine to burn off the soot (black smoke) which improves the fuel efficiency figures. This also improves the performance of the engine, BUT only if you drive the engine at high revs. (Most people don't). So they are most efficient at motorway speeds when the engine is running very hot. But if you do a lot of city type driving, combined with a lot of engine stop/starting, the engine clogs up with soot and brings on the Engine light.

Recycle exhaust gases is nothing to do with dpf; both are envriomental driven additions to diesels cars but do two very different task.

DPF's simply filter the exhaust gases and regenerate (i.e. clean themselves) when they get full. The car ECU won't allow them to regenerate below typical urban speeds which is why they get clogged up. The regen typically involves an injector firing diesel into exhaust and burning off the particulate.

You don't need to drive them at high revs to work or regen as long as you have a regular "high" speed trips on open roads, they will regen and dump the particulate is rural areas rather than urban centres. A parked regen probably means high revs alright, but should be a very rare occurrence if car is driven right

After 2008 a lot of purchasers were blinded by low tax diesel, high mpg, lower purchase price and bought diesel cars completely unsuited to their driving. Along with poor servicing it has been a recipe for disaster for many. Now diesel is "terrible" again.

There is a pretty active trade is cutting out dpfs and reprogramming the ecu to not miss it. Easy catch for an nct inspection but I'm not sure they look for it.

Removing dpf is certainly illegal, and could void and insurance policy as its technically a performance modification, I just don't think its actively policed, but probably on the way.

Air pollution - are you worried ?

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