Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

connachta · 09-01-2021 11:20pm

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Can’t see the Rainbow Cup going ahead.

I do think it will. Not because covid will be over, but because you'll have enough vaccine doses on the market at the time to "decently" order 800 of them for 16 X 50 players/staff in April

its_phil · 09-01-2021 11:22pm

connachta wrote: »

I hope it does go on, we all need that bit of fresh air.
2nd or 3rd then absolutely dosen't matter, except for european pots
Which do not matter either, as every French/English top 5 are pretty close level-wise

Great if you think that, but hope in times of uncertainty doesn’t do a lot when a competition structure for the end of season in Pro 14 is under threat and no news on 2021-22 Champions Cup structure has come out.

You keep playing your best XV until you see what way the cards come up.

connachta · 09-01-2021 11:22pm

lenny4545 wrote: »

I agree, not even close to nailed on for top 3 we could have done with a Scarlets victory 2day to take Cardiff out of the equation!

I'm 99% sure we're safe, 2 games in hands and Cardiff home.
If we screw to that extent, we simply do not deserve anything

its_phil · 09-01-2021 11:24pm

connachta wrote: »

I do think it will. Not because covid will be over, but because you'll have enough vaccine doses on the market at the time to "decently" order 800 of them for 16 X 50 players/staff in April

Don’t think Pfizer are selling vaccines on Amazon just yet.

Burkie1203 · 09-01-2021 11:26pm

connachta wrote: »

I do think it will. Not because covid will be over, but because you'll have enough vaccine doses on the market at the time to "decently" order 800 of them for 16 X 50 players/staff in April

South Africa haven't even begun to roll out vaccines and wont be until April or May and with different strains causing issues with transmission .... not sure rugby teams will be prioritised over more vulnerable groups

Wegians89 · 09-01-2021 11:27pm

Rainbow cup surely won’t go ahead. Wouldn’t be surprised to see a few weeks where the pro14 is put on hold tbh.

connachta · 09-01-2021 11:30pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

South Africa haven't even begun to roll out vaccines and wont be until April or May and with different strains causing issues with transmission .... not sure rugby teams will be prioritised over more vulnerable groups

It won't be about S-A, but Pro16 order for professional players.

As "overall" vaccine will be advanced enough in Europe

Wegians89 · 09-01-2021 11:36pm

connachta wrote: »

It won't be about S-A, but Pro16 order for professional players.

As "overall" vaccine will be advanced enough in Europe

There’s no way sports players will be given priority for the vaccine. Not sure on how true it is but apparently it would be the end of March before the vaccine was distributed to just the at risk people in Ireland. That’s not including health care works and other essential workers. Can’t see the general population getting the vaccine this side of June. That’s not too say restrictions won’t ease, when the more at risk are looked after. Either way I can’t see the rainbow cup going ahead

Burkie1203 · 09-01-2021 11:39pm

connachta wrote: »

It won't be about S-A, but Pro16 order for professional players.

As "overall" vaccine will be advanced enough in Europe

There is very little chance of being able to buy vaccines for rugby players direct from the manufacturer while there is a global pandemic going on. We have already been told by our Govt that the current restrictions
Are likely to be around until the end of March

A group in the least impacted age range getting vaccines ahead of more vulnerable groups is not going to happen IMO.

Pro14 will likely be played out, 6n could be pushed back and Rainbow cup will be canned is what I reckon will happen. No idea what will happen with European Cup.

A regionalised Rainbow Cup with some form of knockout playoffs in June might be a solution but I cannot see it going ahead in April. If the European rugby calendar starts to get moved around then that will take all precedence given it is the most financially beneficial to the Unions

connachta · 09-01-2021 11:55pm

I do hope we have kind of a fresh breeze to June.
If it's not Rainbow Cub, let's invite Saracens, Ealing, Jaguares, Japanese franchise, Fidjian Druas, anything innovative, don't let our league die this year.

Thrashssacre · 09-01-2021 11:57pm

connachta wrote: »

I do hope we have kind of a fresh breeze to June.
If it's not Rainbow Cub, let's invite Saracens, Ealing, Jaguares, Japanese franchise, Fidjian Druas, anything innovative, don't let our league die this year.

The league isn't going to die because we don't have a massive summer clash of the Irish provences vs the mighty ealing trailfinders.

Thrashssacre · 10-01-2021 12:01am

After finishing the game its pretty clear connacht are going to have to work in there defensive and offensive maul and ball retention in the ground after every hit there struggling and using up so much energy just to get the ball back to the scum half then when there turned over you're losing 20/30 meters with an opposing team kicking to touch and another 10/15 from the lineout maul. Connacht making life extremely difficult for themselves and trying to make up the difference playing risky moves off loose play in a wind and rain soaked sports ground, never going to work in the medium to long term.

Burkie1203 · 10-01-2021 12:07am

connachta wrote: »

I do hope we have kind of a fresh breeze to June.
If it's not Rainbow Cub, let's invite Saracens, Ealing, Jaguares, Japanese franchise, Fidjian Druas, anything innovative, don't let our league die this year.

Pro12 - played to a full conclusion until end of march
European Cup - who knows
6 nations - could be pushed back to April or May start.

There is a huge pile of rugby to be played between now and June. The championship starts in March in England so that's a no go

There won't be teams from other timezones invited especially in the current climate. Japan wouldn't travel in October for the Nations Cup and the situation is pretty bad there currently with Covid and they are also trying to stage the Olympics this summer.

Right now minimal travel is the most likely scenario for the next 3 or 4 months. Even getting the testing done is lucky considering the sheer volumes of people seeking tests in last 2 weeks.

macslash · 10-01-2021 1:19am

Were there any updates on the phases with the upgrading of the Sportsground. I obviously know the overall redevelopment will be significantly delayed but man I wish the new pitch was in already. Soft ground is no craic with the way we play now

KBurke85 · 10-01-2021 10:04am

macslash wrote: »

Were there any updates on the phases with the upgrading of the Sportsground. I obviously know the overall redevelopment will be significantly delayed but man I wish the new pitch was in already. Soft ground is no craic with the way we play now

The pitch was meant to be replaced at the end of this season. Not sure if that’s still the case

Bazzo · 10-01-2021 10:09am

KBurke85 wrote: »

The pitch was meant to be replaced at the end of this season. Not sure if that’s still the case

It was originally meant to be replaced at the end of last season (during the summer). Was there an update to that since?

connachta · 10-01-2021 10:14am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Pro12 - played to a full conclusion until end of march
European Cup - who knows
6 nations - could be pushed back to April or May start.

There is a huge pile of rugby to be played between now and June. The championship starts in March in England so that's a no go

There won't be teams from other timezones invited especially in the current climate. Japan wouldn't travel in October for the Nations Cup and the situation is pretty bad there currently with Covid and they are also trying to stage the Olympics this summer.

Right now minimal travel is the most likely scenario for the next 3 or 4 months. Even getting the testing done is lucky considering the sheer volumes of people seeking tests in last 2 weeks.

Raibow Cup to run as announced (I trust Pro14 and not Burkie)
means Connacht are through Europe next season

Cardiff have only 5 games in hands, and have to take 20 points in the minimal scenario Connacht only take 15 point out of 7 games

That's quite a done deal. And that's why I really hope the projected Rainbow Cup stands. Europe in the bag + pleasure for young guys vs Saffers. This is what we need. Please. Stick to it

Burkie1203 · 10-01-2021 10:31am

connachta wrote: »

Raibow Cup to run as announced (I trust Pro14 and not Burkie)
means Connacht are through Europe next season

Cardiff have only 5 games in hands, and have to take 20 points in the minimal scenario Connacht only take 15 point out of 7 games

That's quite a done deal. And that's why I really hope the projected Rainbow Cup stands. Europe in the bag + pleasure for young guys vs Saffers. This is what we need. Please. Stick to it

And are you aware of the current situation around Covid19 happening right now?

Or is this like last Spring when you ignored all of that because it doesn't suit your agenda. You didn't trust the pro14 much when they were talking about declaring postponed games as 0-0 because it harmed connacht.

If the 6n gets pushed back along with European cup its because of governments elsewhere (France) are banning travel until the situation improves. Munster v Leinster already seems set for January 22nd or 23rd according to todays papers so the calendar looks like it is beginning to be shifted around now.

If the 6n gets pushed back 2 months to start in April -which is a very real possibility - then the Rainbow Cup is gone.

It doesn't matter what the pro14 organisers want. The Unions need the 6n income and the 6n will be played. There is also major commitments to broadcaster's for the HC too. That is the money keeping the game afloat right now.

mjp · 10-01-2021 12:17pm

Watching back last ten mins of game lastnight and it's sickening how close we came to sneaking the win from munsters grasps. Would have been so sweet as we are often on the receiving end of such losses and would have given huge boost to confidence of these players in beating munster at full strength. Hate to single out one person but Paul Boyle has to take a lot of flak for the call on past scrum. We don't know if initial plan was to go 8-9-14 play out to the backs and if pressure on scrum made him change plan at last minute but to pick and go against 13 men on near side was criminal. Friend will be like a bear with them for messing up a chance to make a pro 14 final over such a schoolboy error. This is second time in a month that Boyle is getting flak for poor decision making and whilst he's young and a serious prospect it's an area he needs to be more clued in to. The positive is that it's something that he can easily improve on and comes with experience. With an experienced half back pairing like marmion and Carty behind him this should not have happened. If they butchered the chance out wide with a knock on it would be much easier to take the loss than the way it unfolded.

realhorrorshow · 10-01-2021 2:27pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

And are you aware of the current situation around Covid19 happening right now?

Or is this like last Spring when you ignored all of that because it doesn't suit your agenda. You didn't trust the pro14 much when they were talking about declaring postponed games as 0-0 because it harmed connacht.

If the 6n gets pushed back along with European cup its because of governments elsewhere (France) are banning travel until the situation improves. Munster v Leinster already seems set for January 22nd or 23rd according to todays papers so the calendar looks like it is beginning to be shifted around now.

If the 6n gets pushed back 2 months to start in April -which is a very real possibility - then the Rainbow Cup is gone.

It doesn't matter what the pro14 organisers want. The Unions need the 6n income and the 6n will be played. There is also major commitments to broadcaster's for the HC too. That is the money keeping the game afloat right now.

Not this again, please.

macslash · 10-01-2021 4:27pm

Bazzo wrote: »

It was originally meant to be replaced at the end of last season (during the summer). Was there an update to that since?

This is what I had thought too.

KBurke85 · 10-01-2021 4:52pm

macslash wrote: »

This is what I had thought too.

Ya my bad. Got muddled with my dates seeing as the seasons was suspended and didn’t end till August

Burkie1203 · 10-01-2021 6:46pm

realhorrorshow wrote: »

Not this again, please.

Yes this again. Because some people want the world to revolve around whars best for their team and ignore the real world stuff going on

thomond2006 · 10-01-2021 6:47pm

I hear there's this list that you can use to ignore posters you don't want to read.

realhorrorshow · 10-01-2021 6:51pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Yes this again. Because some people want the world to revolve around whars best for their team and ignore the real world stuff going on

Is it absolutely necessary to set them straight in this thread though? People come here to talk about Connacht rugby.

SqueakyKneecap · 10-01-2021 7:12pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

I hear there's this list that you can use to ignore posters you don't want to read.

They're both good posters so ignoring is only detracting yourself of good posts. I don't think anybody wants to see them get in another 60 post back and forth though.

realhorrorshow · 10-01-2021 7:14pm

Anyway, the game. Bit of a strange one, thought Munster were pretty comfortably better but didn't put many points on the board, which gave us the chance to nearly pull off a massive smash and grab.

Said before the game that I would take a BP, but it was more important to me to deliver consecutive strong performances, which we unfortunately could not manage. Last week we were controlled, accurate, aggressive, and intelligent. This week we were sloppy, indisciplined, soft, and utterly braindead. Yet despite all of that we somehow managed to put ourselves in a position where we were attacking the Munster line at the death, two men to the good with the win pretty much in our grasp. To blow that opportunity attacking around the fringes, where Munster dominated us all game, was infuriating. With a two man advantage and Munster still defending aggressively close to the ruck there has to be oceans of space on the edge. There is something off with our squad that I can't place, the drastic and immediate swings in form, and the tendency for the entire team to implode and make stupid decisions across the board is very concerning.

Some of us on this forum have discussed the inevitability of other teams identifying our weaknesses and exploiting them. Tonight, Munster did that ruthlessly. Their decision to take a lineout instead of a scrum (something you rarely see) was evidence they believed they could target us in the maul, and they were absolutely correct. Resourcing of rucks has also been an issue for us at times and Munster had clearly decided they could get at us at the breakdown. It was depressing watching solitary guards getting blown through by aggressive Munster counter ruckers. Most frustrating was our inability to adapt at any point. There has to be a trade off to committing so many to defensive rucks, leaving space either out wide or in the backfield, but we were unable to find it.

Whatever else, supporting Connacht is never boring. The resilience on display at the end was nice to see, but unfortunately we just couldn't get the job done. Thankfully we are looking ok in the league (no non-Irish team has a winning record!) but regardless we could be looking at a stressful run-in.

realhorrorshow · 10-01-2021 7:17pm

SqueakyKneecap wrote: »

They're both good posters so ignoring is only detracting yourself of good posts. I don't think anybody wants to see them get in another 60 post back and forth though.

"20 new posts, maybe we've announced a new signing"

"Nope, just Connachta and Burkie arguing again"

connachta · 10-01-2021 8:34pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Yes this again. Because some people want the world to revolve around whars best for their team and ignore the real world stuff going on

I ignore nothing except your arrogance. Yes you like it or not but pro sport will find a specific way, like culture and so on, to keep their business and passion alive. Bye

Evil_g · 10-01-2021 9:07pm

Oooh. I wouldn't take that Burkie.

Burkie1203 · 10-01-2021 9:14pm

connachta wrote: »

I ignore nothing except your arrogance. Yes you like it or not but pro sport will find a specific way, like culture and so on, to keep their business and passion alive. Bye

In order for sport to find a specific way they need several governments to provide them with vaccines, numbering in the region of 2000+. Given that the pharma companies have given soundings in the media that they are only dealing directly with government health authorities its highly unlikely any sporting body will get early access while there is people in the general population with a far greater need.

If that is arrogance then fine. But I think health authorities keeping people alive will take a far greater precedence.

connemara man · 10-01-2021 9:35pm

MOD note

Connachta, Burkie take it to PM

Do not derail the thread again

ElisaAtWar · 11-01-2021 12:13am

I really don't know what Frank Murphy's issue is with Connacht. Did he feel he got screwed by Connacht. All that aside what a clueless performance by people in our team. If you are being hit by a referee you just take it and try and work around it. So many poor decisions made.

11-01-2021 12:05pm

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

I really don't know what Frank Murphy's issue is with Connacht. Did he feel he got screwed by Connacht. All that aside what a clueless performance by people in our team. If you are being hit by a referee you just take it and try and work around it. So many poor decisions made.

We now have 2 referees we need to avoid in Murphy and Whitehouse.

KBurke85 · 11-01-2021 12:16pm

marley45 wrote: »

We now have 2 referees we need to avoid in Murphy and Whitehouse.

No we have two referees who we need to be better at reading their interpretations of the rules

freyners · 11-01-2021 12:16pm

Leighton Hodges needs to be on that list, not sure if he even refs still but I still havent forgiven him

Murphy is a strange one, its an uncomfortable position to be put in, he is a MRU ref but clearly his playing history is primarily Connacht. I would prefer he didnt ref our games just to avoid any scenario were someone could use his playing history as a smear against a call he makes in our games (both ways).

sydthebeat · 11-01-2021 12:18pm

ah jesus lads, frank murphy is not the reason you lost the other night.
you lost because you didnt protect your own ball well enough.

as a neutral i think he was consistent and reasonable enough to both teams over the 80 mins.
connacht profited from some soft penalties themselves.

Lost Ormond · 11-01-2021 12:41pm

freyners wrote: »

Leighton Hodges needs to be on that list, not sure if he even refs still but I still havent forgiven him

Murphy is a strange one, its an uncomfortable position to be put in, he is a MRU ref but clearly his playing history is primarily Connacht. I would prefer he didnt ref our games just to avoid any scenario were someone could use his playing history as a smear against a call he makes in our games (both ways).

Frank is an MAR ref but would his playing history with Connacht really be an issue?

He wont have played with the vast majority of Connacht's players so i dont really see it as an issue.
Did Glen Jackson not referee the Chiefs in his career despite playing for them? Alain Rolland reffed Leinster many times.
Ideally you would have completely neutral refs every game but that isnt always possible with so few teams at the top level within competitions and if you are talking about former pro players whove turned to refereeing

freyners · 11-01-2021 1:34pm

Festive Life wrote: »

Frank is an MAR ref but would his playing history with Connacht really be an issue?

He wont have played with the vast majority of Connacht's players so i don't really see it as an issue.
Did Glen Jackson not referee the Chiefs in his career despite playing for them? Alain Rolland reffed Leinster many times.
Ideally you would have completely neutral refs every game but that isn't always possible with so few teams at the top level within competitions and if you are talking about former pro players who've turned to refereeing

He's not that long out of the team, players like Marmion competed with him in the early/late stages of their respective careers. Just from that team at the weekend his playing career overlapped with Buckey, Marmion, Carty and probably a few more (Heff, Delahunt, Dillane I think were all contracted when Murphy played with us).

Your right in that it's not uncommon, your examples are true and look at Karl Dickson/Kyle Sinckler incident from the weekend although that's former teammates rather than former teams.

My preference would be that you don't ref a team you used to play with just from an optics sense alone. Realistically as you say its pretty tough, given that there are only 5 elite refs (and only 1 of those is not affiliated with MAR) it's not feasible to avoid every possible conflict.

Also just to be clear, I'm in no way saying Murphy is biased at all. Sometimes I feel he doesnt give us the rub of the green in close ones but I'm (a) not a qualified referee and (b) usually accompanied with alcohol when watching matches

FACECUTTR · 11-01-2021 1:50pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

ah jesus lads, frank murphy is not the reason you lost the other night.
you lost because you didnt protect your own ball well enough.

as a neutral i think he was consistent and reasonable enough to both teams over the 80 mins.
connacht profited from some soft penalties themselves.

I think Frank Murphy was good the other night. I think he is a good referee and has been neutral anytime he has reffed connacht games.
We lost because we got beaten up at ruck time and poor maul defence.

Zzippy · 11-01-2021 1:50pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

ah jesus lads, frank murphy is not the reason you lost the other night.
you lost because you didnt protect your own ball well enough.

as a neutral i think he was consistent and reasonable enough to both teams over the 80 mins.
connacht profited from some soft penalties themselves.

Agree he was consistent, think he was consistently poor though. The breakdown was a mess with a lot of hands in the ruck and players illegally slowing the ball down(on both sides), which he should have been much better on. He was also poor on tacklers not releasing before going for the jackal - at least two of Munster's turnovers were illegal. But they read him better, we didn't react and should have protected our ball much better once we realised that was how he was reffing it.
Basically, the game would have been a lot more free-flowing, and we might have seen more ball getting out to the backs if the breakdown wasn't such a mess. And for the record, I don't think that influenced the end result, I think it influenced the quality of the game.

Lost Ormond · 11-01-2021 1:55pm

freyners wrote: »

He's not that long out of the team, players like Marmion competed with him in the early/late stages of their respective careers. Just from that team at the weekend his playing career overlapped with Buckey, Marmion, Carty and probably a few more (Heff, Delahunt, Dillane I think were all contracted when Murphy played with us).

Your right in that it's not uncommon, your examples are true and look at Karl Dickson/Kyle Sinckler incident from the weekend although that's former teammates rather than former teams.

My preference would be that you don't ref a team you used to play with just from an optics sense alone. Realistically as you say its pretty tough, given that there are only 5 elite refs (and only 1 of those is not affiliated with MAR) it's not feasible to avoid every possible conflict.

Also just to be clear, I'm in no way saying Murphy is biased at all. Sometimes I feel he doesnt give us the rub of the green in close ones but I'm (a) not a qualified referee and (b) usually accompanied with alcohol when watching matches

I wasnt claiming you were saying Murphy could be biased. Sorry if it looked like that.

Its fairly hard to always get refs who dont have some form of affiliation to a team in a cross country league and the way the refs associations and unions are set up.
On (a) and (b) is that not every single fan in the world?

FACECUTTR · 11-01-2021 5:40pm

Irish Times has Noel McNamara going back to Leinster.
"Kieran Campbell has succeeded Noel McNamara as head coach to the Ireland under-20 team. The 41-year-old former Ireland scrumhalf will discharge the new role in conjunction with his position as Ulster Academy manager with responsibility for the elite player development pathway in the province. Denis Leamy joins the backroom team as defence coach.

McNamara will return to his position as Leinster rugby academy manager following a hugely successful stint in charge of the Irish 20s over the past three seasons, not just in terms of results but the manner in which his teams played - a bold, expansive style with players encouraged to take ownership on the pitch"

Surely if he was going west he wouldn't be taking up this role.

sydthebeat · 11-01-2021 6:25pm

that whole "friend away" rumour seems to have been predicated on scott Robertson joining the lions coaching team .

even if robertson was to do that, i see no need for him to vacate any position which would free up a return for friend to the saders.
super rugby aotearoa finishes in the first week of may.

the lions first game, should everything stay on schedule was the 25th june

there is no overlap that requires any position filing.

Zeugnis · 11-01-2021 9:28pm

Remaining rounds of Champions Cup cancelled, so no Bristol v Connacht:
https://www.connachtrugby.ie/matches/fixtures/

According to the IT, Connacht and Ulster to switch to Challenge Cup:
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/champions-cup-likely-to-go-straight-to-last-16-after-temporary-suspension-1.4455639

(edited as I read an got up to speed with developments)

ElisaAtWar · 11-01-2021 9:51pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Agree he was consistent, think he was consistently poor though. The breakdown was a mess with a lot of hands in the ruck and players illegally slowing the ball down(on both sides), which he should have been much better on. He was also poor on tacklers not releasing before going for the jackal - at least two of Munster's turnovers were illegal. But they read him better, we didn't react and should have protected our ball much better once we realised that was how he was reffing it.
Basically, the game would have been a lot more free-flowing, and we might have seen more ball getting out to the backs if the breakdown wasn't such a mess. And for the record, I don't think that influenced the end result, I think it influenced the quality of the game.

I firmly believe that a referee has it within his or her abilities to completely murder a game. And Frank has done this many times. Hence my groan before kickoff. I hadn't been aware he was the referee.

He's normally a half decent referee but he should not be involved in such a setup. He has legacy issues

RonnieL · 11-01-2021 10:13pm

I just made the mistake of going back and watching the delahunt sin binning incident again. There's soft yellows, and there's that - no wonder neither TV station picked up on it, because nobody in their right mind would even contemplate it being a yellow. I thought Munster were the better team, and therefore deserved to win, but that decision really was a game changer.

Wegians89 · 12-01-2021 12:00pm

Wonder will the postponed dragons match be played over the next two week

bayern · 12-01-2021 12:01pm

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Irish Times has Noel McNamara going back to Leinster.
"Kieran Campbell has succeeded Noel McNamara as head coach to the Ireland under-20 team. The 41-year-old former Ireland scrumhalf will discharge the new role in conjunction with his position as Ulster Academy manager with responsibility for the elite player development pathway in the province. Denis Leamy joins the backroom team as defence coach.

McNamara will return to his position as Leinster rugby academy manager following a hugely successful stint in charge of the Irish 20s over the past three seasons, not just in terms of results but the manner in which his teams played - a bold, expansive style with players encouraged to take ownership on the pitch"

Surely if he was going west he wouldn't be taking up this role.

Noel Mc is taking a new role at Leinster with senior team replacing a current senior coach.

KBurke85 · 12-01-2021 3:53pm

Wegians89 wrote: »

Wonder will the postponed dragons match be played over the next two week

Nope only games over the next two weeks are Munster Leinster and Glasgow Edinburgh.

Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

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