Does Sinn Fein have a social media problem?

smurgen · 18-02-2021 8:49am

tayto lover wrote: »

You can decommission guns and explosives.
You cannot decommission psychotic minds.

Sinn Fein will have to disassociate themselves from this kind of thinking if they want to move on and build trust in their party.

Can they do that?

Meh it's a bit ott there. Just because a few headbangers in a group under a party name post means nothing. Do they actually support SF policies? Doubtful they even know them. That's not Sinn Fein's fault. People don't like this Government it's deeply unpopular and people are reacting to it.

Aa regards other parties I seen calls of violence multiple times against SF TDs. There was a post doing the rounds calling for Mary Lou to be raped. It's was in a group called provisional Irish meme which seemed to be vile postings at anyone with republican leanings. Do I blame other parties for that? Nope. It's just headbangers. But I will say this only one party that I know of had attacks on another as part of a research candidate application process and it was not Sinn Fein.

Brendan Bendar · 18-02-2021 9:03am

smurgen wrote: »

Meh it's a bit ott there. Just because a few headbangers in a group under a party name post means nothing. Do they actually support SF policies? Doubtful they even know them. That's not Sinn Fein's fault. People don't like this Government it's deeply unpopular and people are reacting to it.

Aa regards other parties I seen calls of violence multiple times against SF TDs. There was a post doing the rounds calling for Mary Lou to be raped. It's was in a group called provisional Irish meme which seemed to be vile postings at anyone with republican leanings. Do I blame other parties for that? Nope. It's just headbangers. But I will say this only one party that I know of had attacks on another as part of a research candidate application process and it was not Sinn Fein.

Are Cullinane and Stanley headbangers then?

El Tarangu · 18-02-2021 9:41am

smurgen wrote: »

Aa regards other parties I seen calls of violence multiple times against SF TDs. There was a post doing the rounds calling for Mary Lou to be raped. It's was in a group called provisional Irish meme which seemed to be vile postings at anyone with republican leanings. Do I blame other parties for that? Nope.

Were there TDs and councillors from other parties in the group? If not, your analogy is worthless, tbh.

Larbre34 · 18-02-2021 9:45am

They simply must not be elected to lead a Govt. Ever.

smurgen · 18-02-2021 10:15am

El Tarangu wrote: »

Were there TDs and councillors from other parties in the group? If not, your analogy is worthless, tbh.

Not really. There are plenty of FG councillors trolling on twitter. I'm not certain of that group but I'd imagine a group of 16k members is going to have a wide net.

smurgen · 18-02-2021 10:16am

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Are Cullinane and Stanley headbangers then?

Were they the ones asking for violence in the group?

Jinglejangle69 · 18-02-2021 10:19am

smurgen wrote: »

Not really. There are plenty of FG councillors trolling on twitter. I'm not certain of that group but I'd imagine a group of 16k members is going to have a wide net.

FG on a SF thread.

You are the first to accuse people of saying look over there when the roles are reserved.

FG really grate SF supporters, borderline obsessed with Leo Varadkar.

Bizarre.

El Tarangu · 18-02-2021 10:24am

smurgen wrote: »

Not really. There are plenty of FG councillors trolling on twitter.

Define 'trolling' - are these FG councillors engaging in childish tit-for-tats, winding people up? Or are they advocating cutting people's throats and giving someone a bullet in the back of the head?

Again, if it's the former rather than the latter, your analogy is hopelessly flawed.

smurgen · 18-02-2021 10:54am

El Tarangu wrote: »

Define 'trolling' - are these FG councillors engaging in childish tit-for-tats, winding people up? Or are they advocating cutting people's throats and giving someone a bullet in the back of the head?

Again, if it's the former rather than the latter, your analogy is hopelessly flawed.

Well they liked a post asking for someone be murdered. Is that enough for you? Those are FG councillors btw.

https://twitter.com/christineomg5/status/1256552956561960962?s=19

blanch152 · 18-02-2021 12:24pm

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-councillor-organises-commemoration-for-ira-bomber-40104086.html

Another online faux-pas by Sinn Fein.

Quite how they think these things will not get noticed and picked up is beyond me.

"“We do not need or want to commemorate bombers, kidnappers, bank robbers and the people who murdered our gardaí and Defence Forces.”

Mr Craughwell was reacting to online promotional material to m ark the 25th anniversary of the death of “Volunteer O’Brien”, apparently issued in the name of Mr Ó Súilleabháin, a local teacher."

Is there any chance they will learn to cop on and tone it down?

El Tarangu · 18-02-2021 12:55pm

smurgen wrote: »

Well they liked a post asking for someone be murdered. Is that enough for you? Those are FG councillors btw.

https://twitter.com/christineomg5/status/1256552956561960962?s=19

You are actually right; the rhetoric from those FG councillors was reprehensible. Though I will maintain that there is a bit of difference between a councillor from a party going off message and saying such a thing on from their own Twitter profile, to saying things on a group that, while not officially endorsed by the party, has several TDs and councillors as members, so can be seen as existing with the tacit approval of the party hierarchy.

smurgen · 18-02-2021 1:49pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

You are actually right; the rhetoric from those FG councillors was reprehensible. Though I will maintain that there is a bit of difference between a councillor from a party going off message and saying such a thing on from their own Twitter profile, to saying things on a group that, while not officially endorsed by the party, has several TDs and councillors as members, so can be seen as existing with the tacit approval of the party hierarchy.

We'll have to agree to disagree so. I think there's a lot of stupidity on social media on all sides and people are venting non stop. I don't see it unique to one parties followers. People need to think before they post and I hope Gardai are monitoring threats.

blanch152 · 18-02-2021 3:29pm

smurgen wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree so. I think there's a lot of stupidity on social media on all sides and people are venting non stop. I don't see it unique to one parties followers. People need to think before they post and I hope Gardai are monitoring threats.

It is not unique to one party's followers.

However, it is endemic among Sinn Fein's followers. There are hundreds of examples.

Colonel Claptrap · 18-02-2021 4:15pm

You have to wonder, why does one party attract such a significant amount of headbangers compared to other parties?

It's something I've wondered for a long time. Its no longer anecdotal. Plenty of examples provided in this thread and elsewhere. I've noticed it online for years but it seems to be getting worse.

SF really does have a social media problem. Perhaps not amongst its parliamentary party. But certainly amongst some of its supporters.

Is that SF's fault? It's difficult to say. But they certainly don't dial down the rhetoric. Populist soundbites resonate with the headbangers, and just seem to whip them into a frenzy. Just look at the racist, homophobic, disgusting comments I quoted a few pages back. These are SF voters. Pearse, Mary Lou, and Cullinane represent these people.

Every voice should be heard in a democracy. But I'd have huge reservations about hitching my wagon to those scumbags. SF could have the most impressive, groundbreaking policies, but I still wouldn't associate myself with their disgusting, bullying voter base. Call me a snob all you want.

Brendan Bendar · 18-02-2021 4:51pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

You have to wonder, why does one party attract such a significant amount of headbangers compared to other parties?

It's something I've wondered for a long time. Its no longer anecdotal. Plenty of examples provided in this thread and elsewhere. I've noticed it online for years but it seems to be getting worse.

SF really does have a social media problem. Perhaps not amongst its parliamentary party. But certainly amongst some of its supporters.

Is that SF's fault? It's difficult to say. But they certainly don't dial down the rhetoric. Populist soundbites resonate with the headbangers, and just seem to whip them into a frenzy. Just look at the racist, homophobic, disgusting comments I quoted a few pages back. These are SF voters. Pearse, Mary Lou, and Cullinane represent these people.

Every voice should be heard in a democracy. But I'd have huge reservations about hitching my wagon to those scumbags. SF could have the most impressive, groundbreaking policies, but I still wouldn't associate myself with their disgusting, bullying voter base. Call me a snob all you want.

Good call Colonel, on the button.

Harry Palmr · 18-02-2021 5:50pm

Jasus

FrancieBrady · 18-02-2021 11:20pm

It's a useful tool - to blame a party for vile comments on SM - but it's a difficult one to prove. Somebody claims to be attacked by SF members/supporters but is never asked to prove that they are members/supporters.
What a party can do about 'supporters' behaviour is hard to define too. They aren't members so it is impossible to do anything but condemn the behaviour.

As to this site, there is as many examples of all party supporters saying vile stuff as there are of SF supporters saying them.
Posting an advertisement for the party holding a commemoration is now them saying something 'vile'? Strange one that.

Good loser · 19-02-2021 12:27am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's a useful tool - to blame a party for vile comments on SM - but it's a difficult one to prove. Somebody claims to be attacked by SF members/supporters but is never asked to prove that they are members/supporters.
What a party can do about 'supporters' behaviour is hard to define too. They aren't members so it is impossible to do anything but condemn the behaviour.

As to this site, there is as many examples of all party supporters saying vile stuff as there are of SF supporters saying them.
Posting an advertisement for the party holding a commemoration is now them saying something 'vile'? Strange one that.

The smallest miss-step by the Govt - and the previous one - is pounced on by David, Pearse, Mary Lou etc and distorted, magnified over and over into the domains of catastrophe. There is no way they are unaware of the carry-on of 'these supporters'. Their failure to call them out must imply these people have the leadership's tacit support.

astrofool · 19-02-2021 1:52am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's a useful tool - to blame a party for vile comments on SM - but it's a difficult one to prove. Somebody claims to be attacked by SF members/supporters but is never asked to prove that they are members/supporters.
What a party can do about 'supporters' behaviour is hard to define too. They aren't members so it is impossible to do anything but condemn the behaviour.

As to this site, there is as many examples of all party supporters saying vile stuff as there are of SF supporters saying them.
Posting an advertisement for the party holding a commemoration is now them saying something 'vile'? Strange one that.

I think the only way is to come out and condemn it unequivocally, not give it a chance to get any traction. And that means condemning it every time you're asked as an immediate response, and not dancing around with "I was asked that before" because they're afraid of offending some snowflake SF supporters (and you only get asked multiple times because people don't believe you due to past behavior).

FrancieBrady · 19-02-2021 2:02am

astrofool wrote: »

I think the only way is to come out and condemn it unequivocally, not give it a chance to get any traction. And that means condemning it every time you're asked as an immediate response, and not dancing around with "I was asked that before" because they're afraid of offending some snowflake SF supporters (and you only get asked multiple times because people don't believe you due to past behavior).

I thought they had condemned it?

https://www.businesspost.ie/extra-interviews/mary-lou-mcdonald-being-pig-ignorant-online-adds-nothing-to-the-sum-of-human-knowledge-please-stop-ffeb1eb9

Brendan Bendar · 19-02-2021 7:54am

Good loser wrote: »

The smallest miss-step by the Govt - and the previous one - is pounced on by David, Pearse, Mary Lou etc and distorted, magnified over and over into the domains of catastrophe. There is no way they are unaware of the carry-on of 'these supporters'. Their failure to call them out must imply these people have the leadership's tacit support.

Correct and right.That’s their modus operandi, keep everything contained themselves, but watching for every slip up of the govt. and magnify it by a factor of 100.

Wanderer78 · 19-02-2021 7:57am

Brendan Bendar wrote:

Correct and right.Thatâ€™s their modus operandi, keep everything contained themselves, but watching for every slip up of the govt. and magnify it by a factor of 100.

Pretty much how all opposition works

rock22 · 19-02-2021 8:21am

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Correct and right.That’s their modus operandi, keep everything contained themselves, but watching for every slip up of the govt. and magnify it by a factor of 100.

That's the role of an opposition , isn't it?
Or do you prefer the type of opposition FF provided to the last FG led government?

FrancieBrady · 19-02-2021 11:00am

rock22 wrote: »

That's the role of an opposition , isn't it?
Or do you prefer the type of opposition FF provided to the last FG led government?

You would have to ask how much of the 'online abuse' complaints is the arrogant, not liking to be challenged. That is the sea change in politics that a lot haven't handled well - the ability for people to instantly challenge. Like any interface between the public and politics, it's a double edged sword.

I use twitter quite a bit and while their is a lot of anger and abrasive comment I rarely see what could be described as 'vile' and 'abusive' content. Same experience here on boards.

'Leaders' who make sensational claims about being personally abused by another political party really should be under an onus to follow through with the law on those who are doing it. Otherwise the suspicion is that the 'leader' is using the claims for political gain.

astrofool · 19-02-2021 11:49am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I thought they had condemned it?

https://www.businesspost.ie/extra-interviews/mary-lou-mcdonald-being-pig-ignorant-online-adds-nothing-to-the-sum-of-human-knowledge-please-stop-ffeb1eb9

This precisely indicates the problem, because the online stuff keeps happening, they will need to condemn it time and again (and take action against members) to stamp it out.

What has been the follow through from SF from that article? Who has been turfed out of the party? Which heads have rolled? Have they shown that posting standards online have improved? Have they unbanned people from their channels who posted contrary opinions?

Hopefully that's the last time you use that article, and there's a more recent condemnation to use for the next debacle that happens.

mariaalice · 19-02-2021 12:21pm

Maybe changing the parameter a bit.

Political parties A and B

Both attract oddball and aggressive supporters, however, party A has more of them at say a rate of 10 to 1 in comparison to party B.

It is reasonable to ask why this is.

Is it something to do with the origins of party A, is it something to with how party A is organised, is it something to do with the sort of individuals who join party A.

Saying look over there the others are doing it is not an answer, nor is saying party A is being victimised.

Or is it something about social media in general?

FrancieBrady · 19-02-2021 12:26pm

mariaalice wrote: »

Maybe changing the parameter a bit.

Political parties A and B

Both attract oddball and aggressive supporters, however, party A has more of them at say a rate of 10 to 1 in comparison to party B.

It is reasonable to ask why this is.

Is it something to do with the origins of party A, is it something to with how party A is organised, is it something to do with the sort of individuals who join party A.

Saying look over there the others are doing it is not an answer, nor is saying party A is being victimised.

Or is it something about social media in general?

I agree which is why we should begin by identifying who these people are. And that begins with people being abused standing up and being counted.

There was a discussion last night on the Tonight show about online abuse of public figures and it goes beyond one single party. It is an issue since social media began.

P.S. a comparison with how 'abuse' of Ian Wright was dealt with and how abuse of James McClean is dealt with is relevant here too. A lot of the concern about this has a lot to do with who is being abused too.

ancapailldorcha · 19-02-2021 1:04pm

Enough of the one-liner comments and off topic posts please.

Hotblack Desiato · 19-02-2021 2:07pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Jasus

Sinn Fein aligning themselves with ISIS on the blowing up London buses question. You couldn't make it up. Makes you wonder what sort of claptrap he's filling his unfortunate pupils' minds with.

Brendan Bendar · 19-02-2021 2:26pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Sinn Fein aligning themselves with ISIS on the blowing up London buses question. You couldn't make it up. Makes you wonder what sort of claptrap he's filling his unfortunate pupils' minds with.

Poor lad was only 21....... led down the garden path.

FrancieBrady · 19-02-2021 2:30pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Sinn Fein aligning themselves with ISIS on the blowing up London buses question. You couldn't make it up. Makes you wonder what sort of claptrap he's filling his unfortunate pupils' minds with.

Is holding commemorations an example of 'online media problems'? SF have always commemorated.
Not sure what the relevance is. Can anyone link it to the topic.

Colonel Claptrap · 19-02-2021 2:48pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is holding commemorations an example of 'online media problems'? SF have always commemorated.
Not sure what the relevance is. Can anyone link it to the topic.

1. It was posted on social media.
2. The commemoration is taking place online.
3. SF are controversially advertising it.

Couldn't be closer to the thread title if you ask me.
But anyway. Look over there. Anywhere but here.

FrancieBrady · 19-02-2021 2:59pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

1. It was posted on social media.
2. The commemoration is taking place online.
3. SF are controversially advertising it.

Couldn't be closer to the thread title if you ask me.
But anyway. Look over there. Anywhere but here.

So anything they post online is a 'problem'?
Is that your point?

P.S. You do know by the way that the family of that IRA man have cancelled the event because of online abuse and threats?

StupidLikeAFox · 19-02-2021 3:54pm

What bugs me about sinn feins social media is how they rarely say much of substance. Their covid strategy for rolling out vaccinations is on their website, and the government strategy isn't a million miles away from that. However their social media posts are just vague soundbites that the government need to do better, without any substance as to how

Take this post on facebook:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159387775066332&id=58340031331

Now in the comments you have people advocating for opening up the country and others advocating for a zero covid approach. People are criticising the vaccine rollout, claiming our country will be lost (whatever that means) and coming out with all sorts of tripe, cemetery unchecked, and in their own minds Mary Lou is standing up for their interests against "FFG". Mary Lou is happy to sit on the fence and not get into specifics.

Good loser · 19-02-2021 7:30pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Pretty much how all opposition works

None have come close (in our politics) to the relentlessness and assiduity with which SF pursue their dogmatic agendas.
When they come to power they will have left a minefield of hostages to fortune in their wake.
(That will, of course, be FF mark 2)

Hotblack Desiato · 20-02-2021 1:35pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is holding commemorations an example of 'online media problems'? SF have always commemorated.
Not sure what the relevance is. Can anyone link it to the topic.

Do you think blowing up a London bus is a commendable act? Is that when ISIS do it too, or just the IRA?

FrancieBrady · 20-02-2021 1:39pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Do you think blowing up a London bus is a commendable act? Is that when ISIS do it too, or just the IRA?

No, I don't think it was commendable.

I don't think shooting innocent people dead in the street or carpet bombing commendable either, but I can allow those that did it to be commemorated wirth respect.

What has this to do with the topic though?

Hotblack Desiato · 20-02-2021 1:44pm

A social media post commemorating a terrorist is everything to do with the thread topic. The fact you can't or won't see that speaks volumes. As long as SF continue to rewrite history and glorify terrorists they will never be accepted as a normal law-abiding political party.

FrancieBrady · 20-02-2021 1:52pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

A social media post commemorating a terrorist is everything to do with the thread topic. The fact you can't or won't see that speaks volumes. As long as SF continue to rewrite history and glorify terrorists they will never be accepted as a normal law-abiding political party.

They are accepted - more than any other party at the last election.

astrofool · 20-02-2021 3:51pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are accepted - more than any other party at the last election.

Let's start with the first question. Is a SF social media post about commemorating a bomber relevant to a discussion about SF having a social media problem?

If it is, how are they going about solving that problem so it doesn't keep on occurring?

If it isn't, do you deny that there is a problem at all, and thus this thread shouldn't even exist?

FrancieBrady · 20-02-2021 4:13pm

astrofool wrote: »

Let's start with the first question. Is a SF social media post about commemorating a bomber relevant to a discussion about SF having a social media problem?

If it is, how are they going about solving that problem so it doesn't keep on occurring?

If it isn't, do you deny that there is a problem at all, and thus this thread shouldn't even exist?

There certainly is a problem with SF. Is it a problem 'for' SF?

Not sure it's a huge problem for them, you'd have to ask them.

astrofool · 20-02-2021 4:33pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There certainly is a problem with SF. Is it a problem 'for' SF?

Not sure it's a huge problem for them, you'd have to ask them.

In your opinion, what is the answer? You're active on this thread enough, you surely have an opinion of your own on it by now without engaging the army council first?

Let's start with the first question. Is a SF social media post about commemorating a bomber relevant to a discussion about SF having a social media problem?

If it is, how are they going about solving that problem so it doesn't keep on occurring?

If it isn't, do you deny that there is a problem at all, and thus this thread shouldn't even exist?

FrancieBrady · 20-02-2021 4:51pm

astrofool wrote: »

In your opinion, what is the answer? You're active on this thread enough, you surely have an opinion of your own on it by now without engaging the army council first?

A comment like that knocks you off my list of people I am willing to discuss anything with.

Did somebody mention abusive posts?

jimmycrackcorm · 20-02-2021 5:07pm

StupidLikeAFox wrote:

Now in the comments you have people advocating for opening up the country and others advocating for a zero covid approach. People are criticising the vaccine rollout, claiming our country will be lost (whatever that means) and coming out with all sorts of tripe, cemetery unchecked, and in their own minds Mary Lou is standing up for their interests against "FFG". Mary Lou is happy to sit on the fence and not get into specifics.

Sinn Feins position is to promote as much populism as possible to gain votes so that they can fulfill their ballot box agenda.

It goes way back, of you can recall how Pearse called for burning the bond holders after the 08 crash, ignoring the implications for our reliance on the ECB.

Their latest stunt is the bill to do away with dual insurance pricing. Sounds great, but in practice it'll hurt people like me who are willing to shop around and change insurers to get a cheaper deal.

Instead we will all be paying higher insurance, because there is no incentive for insurers to lower prices when their competitors can't do it either. Push the populist idea but totally ignore the underlying causes of high insurance such as extremely high court awards, legal fees etc.

Brendan Bendar · 20-02-2021 5:49pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A comment like that knocks you off my list of people I am willing to discuss anything with.

Did somebody mention abusive posts?

You got lucky astro

ancapailldorcha · 20-02-2021 7:56pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A comment like that knocks you off my list of people I am willing to discuss anything with.

Did somebody mention abusive posts?

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

You got lucky astro

No more of this carry on please. Use the report function please.

astrofool · 20-02-2021 9:12pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A comment like that knocks you off my list of people I am willing to discuss anything with.

This is deflecting again, on this thread, topics around SF's issues with social media are being discussed, some are blaming SF for allowing this to happen, some are defending SF's position, or lack of a position, depending on which issue is currently happening. I'm arguing in good faith, and I don't believe I should be ignored as a result, and you can peruse my posting history to that effect.

But, if you are coming down on the side of consistently defending SF in these matters, then your own opinion, and not that of SF, should surely be taken into account, otherwise you are arguing in bad faith, and if so, others on the discussion should be allowed to know that, which is why I asked twice so directly (and unnecessarily needled you about the army council, which would be avoided if you stopped deflecting to SF on what your opinion should be, I would expect similarly high standards from yourself with any posts about FF and FG going forward, and hope you won't be similarly offended if cases where you fall below these standards are consistently pointed out).

blanch152 · 23-02-2021 6:32pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are accepted - more than any other party at the last election.

They haven't been accepted as a party of government yet.

All of the political parties that have spent time in government - FF, FG, Labour, Greens, Independents - refused to do business with Sinn Fein because they didn't see it as fit for government.

The Greens, who would have been most open to it, did explore the possibility, but resiled very very quickly.

FrancieBrady · 23-02-2021 6:56pm

blanch152 wrote: »

They haven't been accepted as a party of government yet.

All of the political parties that have spent time in government - FF, FG, Labour, Greens, Independents - refused to do business with Sinn Fein because they didn't see it as fit for government.

The Greens, who would have been most open to it, did explore the possibility, but resiled very very quickly.

And look who 4 of those are - 2 that have swapped power between them since the foundation of the state and their cannon fodder coalition partners.

blanch152 · 23-02-2021 9:42pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And look who 4 of those are - 2 that have swapped power between them since the foundation of the state and their cannon fodder coalition partners.

Between the five of them, they still have the vast majority of people in this country voting for them.

Does Sinn Fein have a social media problem?

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