Garda procedure with speeding fines

Daisy32 wrote: »

Hi
I got a speeding ticket, I called the number on the top of the fine ( I think it was Tipperary) and got talking to this very nice woman and I asked her what excatly I needed to do ( I have not got one before) she told me to post a cheque to the address on the fine and go to my nearest station to produce my licence (as I did not have it on me on the day) . I did all that, got receipts etc... only to receive a summons today for a court apperance for not showing my insurance cert??? I am totally confused as to why I would need to show the cert as my disc was clearly displayed and the ban garda that fined me on the day checked all of that....
How can I sort this out without having to take a day off to go to court? I am really upset about this.
Please can anyone help me or if anyone has had a similar experience please can you let me know.
Thanks
M

This is a common problem where people dont seem to hear the demand to produce the insurance cert. TBH you should be asked at the roadside when stopped if you know what your insurance certificate is as many people dont.

The insurance disc on your windscreen only tells us your car is insured but who is insured to drive your car, only the certificate will tell us that and thats why we make the demand under law for you to produce it within 10 days at any station of your choice.

As for your court date all you need to bring with you is your insurance certificate which covered you to drive on the day you were stopped. If I were you I would go look for that cert now because if you cant find it or are on a new policy and you threw out the old cert, it can take some time to get a new cert from your insurance company.

I hope this helps

Daisy32 wrote: »

Thanks but when I called to verify what I needed to do in order to pay this fine, I was told to post the cheque and produce my licence ( which I did immediately). There was no mention of the insurance cert.

you should have been told at the roadside to produce your insurance certificate, not on the phone

TheNog wrote: »

The person you were talking to on the phone was a civilian and she only outlined what you need to do pay the fine only

I know the Gardai know that the person at the other end of the phone line in Tipperary isn't a Garda but the normal person ringing doesn't. When a person rings a Garda station/Barracks/Office we expect to be talking to a Garda and assume that unless told otherwise. So the OP would then have had the thought
"Right the Garda told me what to do i order to get this over and done with, i need to get this and this done in x/y/z weeks/days"

We're not going to analyse the situation and think, "Well if it was a superintendent they know everything so i'll do exactly what they say, if it was a regular Garda and not a Traffic Corp they mightn't know exactly so i'd better check and if it was a civilian clerk I'll definetely check as they won't know what they are talking about" - Would you assume that???

From the (amittedly small number of) friends I have who are Gardai I get the impression Gardai would prefer to be out and about doing their regular work rather than making court appearances or have to re-follow up paperwork. Why don't the Traffic Corp - or any Garda asking for an Insurance Cert - make the point clear that it's the Cert that is required, not the disc?

And yes I know people should know this along with a thousand other things but we forget, if this issue annoys Gardai so much nip it in the bud - make sure at the roadside that people know it's the Cert is required.

Daisy32 wrote: »

Just to clarify all it states on the fine was "relevant" documentation hence the reason I called for clarification. Do you not think the easier option for me would be to produce the cert had I known I had to.... instead of getting a summons.
In fact I actually asked about the insurance on the phone and was told no, that proof of insurance was not necessary.

Daisy, a lawful demand would have been made at the road side for you to ''produce you certificate of insurance or exemption at a station of your choice within ten days''. You would then have nominated a station to produce at.
You phoned about an fcps (fixed penalty notice) and you got the correct answer to that. Insurance production has nothing to do with them. (Its like going to get a tv licence in the post office and trying to get them to give you a driving licence). Proof of insurance is not need for payment of an fcps.

I assume that you got two summons, non production and no insurance. If you produce insurance in court it will be struck out. The chances are you will be convicted on non production (fine or probation act). Hope this helps

Daisy32 wrote: »

No I only got 1 summons which was for non production...... I am insured so surely I can't get another summons???

You wont get another summons because summons for one person on one incident will come together.

Having said that if a person does not produce their insurance certificate then we automatically summons that person for "No Insurance". It is then up to the person to prove they were insured by bringing the cert to court for the garda to inspect. The no inusrance summons is then struck out.

If you are convicted for "failing to produce insurance cert" it is usually a small fine but no penalty points or disqualification. Again that is only if you are convicted as you can still put your own case forward to the judge and he/she may side with you.

swiftandbold wrote: »

I was caught speeding last night admit yes I was but Garda did not give me a ticket said he did not have any did not say what station he was from or caution me for the offence all he said was that I would be getting a summons from them in due course I was polite and never agrue the point did not admit that I was speeding Is this legal as I was given no information at the side of the road

You will get a notice in the post as NGA says, it will outline the offence of speeding, its €80 and 2 penalty points if you choose to accept the offence, with 28 days to pay. If you dont pay within the 28 days you are given an additional 28 days but the fine goes up to €120, the points stay the same.

If you choose not to accept the offence then dont pay the fine and wait for a summons to arrive and you will be summonsed to court where the fine and points can be higher.

Well practiced speech there that just rolls off my tongue for every speeder I stop.

nice guy always wrote: »

Yep im afraid so. Hes informed you of the offence, speeding. Im sure he didnt say a summons, its an FCPS notice.

We stopped giving tickets at the side of the road about 3 and a half years ago. Now the ticket is sent out in the post. The Garda does not have to tell you his station or caution you for the offence, an informal caution only delievered when your not getting a ticket. Not both. Were not paid to rant but to enforce the law.

Hope this helps

Short and to the point, I like it

Bond-007 wrote: »

Surely a Garda must give his name and station if he is asked for that information?

District number, which are the shoulder numbers Gardaí wear. The OP didnt say he asked, if he did im sure the Garda would have given him what ever he wanted!!!
Anytime im asked I give name and Unit (Traffic not station) and im sure anyother member would be the same. The old code stated we must give our name but that was before country stations got shoulder numbers a couple of years ago.

Bond-007 wrote: »

Fair enough. Sometimes the shoulder numbers are not visible.

In fairness they should always be. I would never leave the station without them showing and think it looks very unprofessional to see members without them

But sometimes public cant see them....or dont want to. Like the G20 were the Sergeant used force, lots of videos on it. They said he was covering his shoulder number with grey fabric but in acually fact public order officers dont wear them on shoulder but on helmet. The grey denoted him as P.O. Sgt

Bond-007 wrote: »

Lads I meant where they sometimes get covered by the hi-vis jackets as used by the traffic corps.

O right, thats mostly gone bond. Before we were issued with the metal numbers. Now their cloth. Some of us got cloth ones done up years ago and as a result now have many sets. I have one for shirt and ones always on fleese, partol jacket, traffic hi vis, normal hi vis and Bike hi vis. Most members are the same within the last year or so.

swiftandbold wrote: »

Thanks for replys just I am from the N.I. and was not sure of procedure thought you had to give fixed penalty notice at side of road when stopped. Correct he did not say summons he said Fixed Penalty notice of €80.00 which has to be paid within 28 days or goes upto €120.00. At looking at the other message he never asked about insurance or asked about producing it at any station so if that comes in do I have a case (I have full insurance).
Also in N.I. they do caution you but that is only at the side of the road you are not arrested as such unless there is more than just speeding,
Also do you not get breath test on all stops now or is that accident only?
Just would like to be clear as I am only keeping myself right do not want a court apperance for speeding

We cannot make a lawful demand of a forgien registered vehicle, unless the driver/owner is resident in the state. We have the power to breath test anyone who has committed any offence under the road traffic act which was added in 2006. We can also as you rightly said test persons involved in an RTC.

So dont worry you should get it in the post and you can pay it at a post office (An Post only) or your can do a postal payment.

cushtac wrote: »

There should be numbers on the hi-viz too.

Your 4 months too late with your reply.......:P

I take it that whole rumour about over-paying the fine, receiving the refund cheque and then dont cash it thing is balooney.

TheNog wrote: »

This is a common problem where people dont seem to hear the demand to produce the insurance cert. TBH you should be asked at the roadside when stopped if you know what your insurance certificate is as many people dont.

quietsailor wrote: »

<snip> Why don't the Traffic Corp - or any Garda asking for an Insurance Cert - make the point clear that it's the Cert that is required, not the disc?

And yes I know people should know this along with a thousand other things but we forget, if this issue annoys Gardai so much nip it in the bud - make sure at the roadside that people know it's the Cert is required.

melodical wrote: »

- the Garda only asked to see my license and didn't mention my insurance Cert (which I had in the car), Do I still have to produce it at a station within 10 days?

Bond-007 wrote: »

Only if you were asked for it.

Guys, sorry, but which is it? You’re the professionals and it's often the case that an error is enough for someone to get away with 'murder', 'cause the evidence isn't secured. This thread seems to suggest rent-seeking behaviour, a charge (pardon the pun) often levelled at Gardai, and also that there isn't a standard operation procedure; surely in such a scenario the process is open to abuse?

Once the ticket is not paid then it goes directly to court.

My advice is see a solicitor.

egorski wrote: »

Hello,

I have a question regarding speeding fines. My wife got a speeding
fine >56 days ago but we just receieved the correspondance now.
The reason being that we moved house and had a new born baby (our first) in the intervening period and she just never got round to changing
her vehicle registration - its been rather hectic as you can imagine.
The speeding fine was sent to her old address.

She is 10 days over the 56 days period and my understanding is that she now has to go to court. Any recommendations for a course of action? Will she have to go to court?

No point ringing the FCPS office as they only issue the ticket and take payment.

Contact your local Garda station and ask for the member who issued it and have a chat with him and he'll explain more.

An FCPS is nothing to get worried/upset about. Hundreds of people get them everyday. And going to court is a normal occurance too. I know thats easy for me to say but she'll be grand, trust me.

As for solicitor, ya the golden pages should help you find one near you.

egorski wrote: »

thanks nice guy.

It seems like a foregone decision then that she will have to goto court.

Would it be worth ringing the office down in Thurles? She has been
driving for years with no offences upto this point and is quite upset
at the notion she has broken the law.

How do we go about getting a solicitor - the yellow pages?