Fined for not wearing seat belt?

NinjaRambo · 10-04-2021 11:18am #1

Hi all.

The title maybe misleading, but the truth is I was actually wearing a seat belt.

In August of 2020 I turned into a petrol station, got out of the car to put petrol in the car. About 15 seconds later a Garda car pulled up in the station and the officer got out and came to me. He asked for my name, which I provided. He then said I saw you not wearing a seat belt. On that day I was wearing a pure black jacket and whether I was wearing a seat belt or not, it would be impossible to tell as the belt would have been disguised in my jacket. I was wearing my seat belt though.

I explained that to him and then he said fair enough and apologized, got in the car and drove away.

Fast forward to today, I had the Gardai violently knocking on my house door and shouting my name. I opened the door and she gave me a Fixed Charge Notice and on it it says that the Garda (his name), saw me on the 05/08/2020 wearing no seat belt and has made an application to the central administration processing unit by him on the 16th of November 2020. I have to pay 120 Euros or go to Court on the 14th of July 2021.

Here is the weird part; On the FCN my name is perfectly correct, both name and surname, but my address is my old address which I moved out of about 2 years ago.

My question is, is this all legit? Why send the FCN to my old address when I have clearly updated my address for everything from my Drivers Licence to my Tax, Insurance and NCT.

And my last question is, shouldn't the Garda who came to me at the petrol station that day, asked for my drivers licence and took down my information there and then?

Del2005 · 10-04-2021 12:10pm

Doesn't really matter what the Garda on the day in question did or didn't do. You've 2 options now to either pay the FCN or go to court and fight it. Unless you've already got penalty points going to court will cost you more than paying the FCN, it's not fair but it's the system.

Bazzy · 10-04-2021 12:14pm

I would take my chances in Court.

Bring Proof of the address change if you have it and explain you we're wearing a black coat.

It has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt you had no seat belt on.

Thats the road I would go down if I was in your boat

Del2005 · 10-04-2021 12:24pm

Bazzy wrote: »

I would take my chances in Court.

Bring Proof of the address change if you have it and explain you we're wearing a black coat.

It has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt you had no seat belt on.

Thats the road I would go down if I was in your boat

Proven beyond reasonable doubt isn't required in motoring offences. A judge will take a Garda's word over a punter, which is why the OP will need a solicitor and that's why it'll cost more to fight than accept points.

antodeco · 10-04-2021 4:20pm

OP, does your car beep when you don't have your seatbelt in the clip?

NinjaRambo · 10-04-2021 5:10pm

antodeco wrote: »

OP, does your car beep when you don't have your seatbelt in the clip?

Which clip?

Fann Linn · 10-04-2021 5:14pm

NinjaRambo wrote: »

Which clip?

The clip that locks the belt,

NinjaRambo · 10-04-2021 5:18pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

The clip that locks the belt,

No. It doesnt have that feature.

pippip · 10-04-2021 6:57pm

It's absolutely ridiculous this sort of situation where the Garda actually spoke to you but didn't confirm they were going to proceed with the offence.

Where contact is made they should have to give you an actual ticket there and then. Who's to say, having known at the time, that you could have asked the garage for CCTV.

I know it wouldn't be taken well but I wonder if you actually ask the officer whether they are going to issue a ticket and record they're answer would it change things.

kirving · 10-04-2021 9:06pm

At minimum exceptionally unprofessional, and at the more extreme end, absolutely intentional to leave the OP not in a position to gather their own evidence (seatbelt click could be heard on dashcam, CCTV, car ECU logs), not that they should have to BTW.

Witcher · 10-04-2021 9:08pm

kirving wrote: »

At minimum exceptionally unprofessional, and at the more extreme end, absolutely intentional to leave the OP not in a position to gather their own evidence (seatbelt click could be heard on dashcam, CCTV, car ECU logs), not that they should have to BTW.

The seatbelt being engaged doesn't mean they were wearing it, I've been people close it behind them and sit on it just to stop it beeping.

10-04-2021 9:11pm

Witcher wrote: »

The seatbelt being engaged doesn't mean they were wearing it, I've been people close it behind them and sit on it just to stop it beeping.

The OP has already said they were wearing it.

Witcher · 10-04-2021 9:12pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

The OP has already said they were wearing it.

I'm not arguing that, I'm arguing the poster's point that a seatbelt click on a dashcam or that the ECU log would prove it was being worn.

kirving · 10-04-2021 10:41pm

It doesn't prove anything, but versus a Garda's word, I'd be glad to have it in court with me.

An audible click on the belt as the driver gets in, and another as they get out, no audible seatbelt alarms, backed up by the ECU of the car showing no warnings for seatbelt would be difficult to argue against.

Why would someone get into a car, pull out the belt, slide it behind them, and then plug it in. Why not just leave it plugged in, or plug it in before they sit down. No absolute proof of course, but a hell of a lot better than nothing.

Alas, the OP has no opportunity to gather evidence of their own, because the Garda left them believing their encounter was the last of the matter. Standard practice if you're to read the numerous threads on here.

frozenfrozen · 10-04-2021 10:47pm

Is there a way to contact the guard and say you agreed at the time it wasn't an issue

He may have quickly jotted down your reg before speaking to you and then later entered this into pulse or whatever forgetting to cross it out of his notebook after speaking to you?

yamaha4life · 11-04-2021 1:30am

kirving wrote: »

Alas, the OP has no opportunity to gather evidence of their own, because the Garda left them believing their encounter was the last of the matter. Standard practice if you're to read the numerous threads on here.

Had a similar experience as the Op on two separate occasions the first was garda stopped me for no seat belt but i was wearing it, under my arm instead of over shoulder. Still didn't realise i had it on upon opening window! Until i pulled it outwards from my midsection was wearing a black jumper at the time so it did blend into it to be fair.

The garda completely backtracked from this point and was quite annoyed then said if there was a fine for improper use of a seat belt id give you one.

More recently well 15 months ago a garda stopped me claiming i was speeding in a 60k zone didnt state my speed, i said i dont believe i was he asked the standard tax nct insurance questions and for licence. Garda spent about 5 minutes in patrol car and came back with radar gun in toe.

Returned my licence and tried to show me my speed nothing after a couple of attempts he said its not working now and wouldn't be doing anymore and to keep an eye on my speed.

Fast forward to last week, i was contacted by local AGS to be informed i never paid my FPN and a court summons is waiting for me. I never received it as it was sent to the wrong address.now i have to go to court. Seeing as at no point garda mentioning i was getting a fine i was none the wiser until the phone call.

Atlantic Dawn · 11-04-2021 1:37am

From my own experience it will go in to a "he said, she said" case in court. If it was me and I was innocent I would go to court but not without a solicitor, in the court without one you will be thrown to the wolves for this case as it will be all based on who saw what on the day in question and you will be portrayed as a nobody. You need to look at time of day on fine, if it was daylight or dark, if the angle on his car would be impossible to tell either way, etc etc.

The case will cost you a few hundred, the fine is pocket change to not go to court and allow corruption to be normalised, the relief on your face when the case is thrown out of court is priceless.

con___manx1 · 11-04-2021 1:39am

It's not worth the stress pay the fine and forget about it. The garda is an idiot.

Atlantic Dawn · 11-04-2021 1:42am

con___manx1 wrote: »

It's not worth the stress pay the fine and forget about it. The garda is an idiot.

Never pay the fine if innocent, always expose the corruption/incompetence, keeps the rest of the force safe.

yamaha4life · 11-04-2021 1:56am

I have paid a fine for breaking a red light, i didn't the light was green until the middle of my car past the pole it changed to amber, travelling at approx 45/50kph attempting to stop at this point would have left me in the middle or slightly beyond the middle of the junction.

I spent almost 30 mins at the roadside explaining this and that the rules of the road state of a traffic light changed to amber beyond the safe point of stopping you are to clear the junction. Garda didn't give a b*llocks and sent me a fine + points.

A dash cam would have been worth its weight in gold in this instance.

I just paid the fine and put it behind me most definitely with dash camera I would have fought it.

Hdjsjsjsj · 11-04-2021 2:05am

Stuff like this is why they should have to issue you with a ticket on the day in question.

The fact it's a lose lose is an absolute joke. You'd nearly want a dashcam filming both the road and yourself at all times at this stage.

ted1 · 11-04-2021 2:07am

Bazzy wrote: »

I would take my chances in Court.

Bring Proof of the address change if you have it and explain you we're wearing a black coat.

It has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt you had no seat belt on.

Thats the road I would go down if I was in your boat

Have you been to court fir a traffic offence ? My experience is just pay the fine.

joeysoap · 11-04-2021 2:11am

I know somebody this happened to also, said they went through red when he said he didn't. Went to the garda station about it. Guard on duty said ' just pay it'

.anon. · 11-04-2021 2:12am

pippip wrote: »

It's absolutely ridiculous this sort of situation where the Garda actually spoke to you but didn't confirm they were going to proceed with the offence.

Standard procedure, probably because they want to avoid confrontation. I was stopped at a checkpoint a few years ago and the guard noticed that my insurance disc was out of date (the new one was sitting on a table at home). I was able to log into my bank account on my phone and showed her proof in the form of a payment to FBD. She was satisfied that it corresponded with the expiry date of the disc in the window and told me to just produce the insurance cert at a Garda station. I did this - the guard scanned the document and inputted the details in front of me... and a few weeks later, an FPN arrived in the post, regardless.

I filled out a form and enclosed a copy of my insurance cert and the fine was quashed.

BorneTobyWilde · 11-04-2021 2:30am

WHat's with the violently knocking on house door, did you have a bell. These people seriously need to be thought some manners. Shouty and Mouthy.

airy fairy · 11-04-2021 2:40am

The gardai said he saw you drive into the petrol station wearing no seatbelt? Do you have to wear a seatbelt in a car on a private premises?

GM228 · 11-04-2021 7:48am

Del2005 wrote: »

Proven beyond reasonable doubt isn't required in motoring offences. A judge will take a Garda's word over a punter, which is why the OP will need a solicitor and that's why it'll cost more to fight than accept points.

It is, but, it is up to the judge based on the evidence before them to decide if there is a reasonable doubt.

GM228 · 11-04-2021 7:49am

airy fairy wrote: »

The gardai said he saw you drive into the petrol station wearing no seatbelt? Do you have to wear a seatbelt in a car on a private premises?

A petrol station is a "public place", you must wear a seat belt in a public place.

Trampas · 11-04-2021 8:00am

I just think it’s a wonderful place that you can be done without a shred of evidence bar a he said she said where one person has a distinctive advantage over the other

corsav6 · 11-04-2021 9:25am

Trampas wrote: »

I just think it’s a wonderful place that you can be done without a shred of evidence bar a he said she said where one person has a distinctive advantage over the other

And then if you have the cheek to protest your innocence in court and lose your getting more points and a larger fine ffs.

fryup · 11-04-2021 9:25am

GM228 wrote: »

A petrol station is a "public place", you must wear a seat belt in a public place.

you must wear one whilst the car is in motion fullstop

Witcher wrote: »

The seatbelt being engaged doesn't mean they were wearing it, I've seen people close it behind them and sit on it just to stop it beeping.

you got gotta be kiddin me, that's beyond thick

Fined for not wearing seat belt?

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