HomePod

Bob24 · 06-02-2018 9:58pm

And What Hi-Fi which I would trust a bit more than the generalist tech website in terms gauging audio quality: https://www.whathifi.com/apple/homepod/review

Despite some flaws and limitations, the HomePod is the best-sounding smart speaker available - and by quite a margin.

I have to say I am a little excited ...

faceman · 07-02-2018 10:07am

Having read the full reviews for this it’s clear that it’s a much higher end speaker than we were first anticipating. Comparisons with the Sonos 5 are being made which means that it’s a very high end speaker.

Downside though is that Siri functionality is even less than what Siri does on the iPhone and the HomePod is tied to the Apple ecosystem more than any other Apple product.

It definitely feels like an Apple Watch series 0. Come the next release of HomePod they no doubt will have addressed the failings.

Bob24 · 07-02-2018 10:26am

For me the likely deal breaker will be the lack aux audio input (unless there’s one and I missed that).

I am 100% in the Apple echo system (iPhone, iPad, Apple Music, Apple TV, Apple Watch, MacBook Pro, AirPort Extreme ... the whole lot), but still there are use cases for outputting audio from other devices. For exemple if sound quality is that high end i could consider getting a pair as the stereo system for my living room... but it would need to be able to render audio from a TV or gaming console

murpho999 · 07-02-2018 10:57am

Like most tech products it's all about the software.

This product is not complete. Too limited and being restricted to Apple products make this a 'wait till Model 2" product.

flexcon · 07-02-2018 10:59am

Bob24 wrote: »

For me the likely deal breaker will be the lack aux audio input (unless there’s one and I missed that).

I am 100% in the Apple echo system (iPhone, iPad, Apple Music, Apple TV, Apple Watch, MacBook Pro, AirPort Extreme ... the whole lot), but still there are use cases for outputting audio from other devices. For exemple if sound quality is that high end i could consider getting a pair as the stereo system for my living room... but it would need to be able to render audio from a TV or gaming console

No AUX input, and you cannot use the bluetooth in the device to cast music to it

Bluetooth is only used with the initial pairing. Seems weird, but true.,

Bob24 · 07-02-2018 11:16am

Not sure about “wait for v2” of the concerns are the lack of AUX and Bluetooth input. Those are deliberate restrictions from Apple rather that typical V1 technology/cost related restrictions. I wouldn’t necessarily count on them reversing those choices in a new version.

And for me asside from these (especially the AUX input as personally I don’t care for Bluetooth and prefer AirPlay, but of course understand how Bluetooth is important to other people) I don’t see anything lacking in the V1 which would make me want a V2. Whereas if you took the Apple Watch at launch the flaws and things they would have to address were obvious to me.

adox · 07-02-2018 11:29am

The Homepod seems to be the opposite of what the competition have released as a smart speaker. Whereas the others have released what is primarily a smart speaker with extensive smart functions and the speaker itself being secondary, Apple seem to have released a very good speaker with smart functions as an after thought.

There isnt a hope in hell Id buy this. Siri is limited enough as it is without an even more limited version on this.

Although Im quie heavily tied into the Apple eco system, I dont subscribe to Apple Music, i use Spotify and found it quite easy to first integrate an Amazon echo and then switch to a Google Home.

Apple are way behind the curve with this product and probably could never instantly catch up with the smart features of the other two so maybe they concentrated more on the speaker as a selling point but, as with a lot of Apple products on launch, it feels half done and very restrictive.

davo2001 · 07-02-2018 11:33am

adox wrote: »

The Homepod seems to be the opposite of what the competition have released as a smart speaker. Whereas the others have released what is primarily a smart speaker with extensive smart functions and the speaker itself being secondary

Absolutely not true with the SONOS speaker.

Creamy Goodness · 07-02-2018 11:48am

WWDC this year will make or break this product I think.

If they extend the SiriKit domains to music - which is the absolute minimum they have to do to make this product something I'd want - then this will start to fly off the shelves. If Apple don't do it at this WWDC they'll never do it and it'll just be an Apple Music/iTunes/Apple Podcasts speaker.

adox · 07-02-2018 11:53am

davo2001 wrote: »

Absolutely not true with the SONOS speaker.

Well true but Sonos dont have their own smart assistant and are integrating others so I wasnt talking about them really.

glideslope · 07-02-2018 12:04pm

I won’t buy the HomePod until Siri supports Spotify and is able to recognise different voices so that all family members can use it. That’s at least a year away and by then it will be available on the Irish Apple store.

In the meantime, I went out and bought a Sonos Play 3 for €279 to add to my play 1 for multi room audio and it all works great with Spotify.

Bob24 · 07-02-2018 12:05pm

adox wrote: »

The Homepod seems to be the opposite of what the competition have released as a smart speaker. Whereas the others have released what is primarily a smart speaker with extensive smart functions and the speaker itself being secondary, Apple seem to have released a very good speaker with smart functions as an after thought.

There isnt a hope in hell Id buy this. Siri is limited enough as it is without an even more limited version on this.

Although Im quie heavily tied into the Apple eco system, I dont subscribe to Apple Music, i use Spotify and found it quite easy to first integrate an Amazon echo and then switch to a Google Home.

Apple are way behind the curve with this product and probably could never instantly catch up with the smart features of the other two so maybe they concentrated more on the speaker as a selling point but, as with a lot of Apple products on launch, it feels half done and very restrictive.

I guess there are a different target audiences. I might be in a small minority I am not sure, but personally I have little interest in “smart” features and all I want is an easy to use speaker which outputs great sound from my various sources (including wirelessly for iPhones and iPads) and plays nice in the Apple ecosystem. This is why I was never interested in the Google or Amazon offerings ... the lack of focus on audio quality and complete focus on Siri type of features. So actually personally (and again I might be in a minority) I actually like the way Apple set their priorities compared to the competition.

murpho999 · 07-02-2018 12:17pm

Bob24 wrote: »

Not sure about “wait for v2” of the concerns are the lack of AUX and Bluetooth input. Those are deliberate restrictions from Apple rather that typical V1 technology/cost related restrictions. I wouldn’t necessarily count on them reversing those choices in a new version.

And for me asside from these (especially the AUX input as personally I don’t care for Bluetooth and prefer AirPlay, but of course understand how Bluetooth is important to other people) I don’t see anything lacking in the V1 which would make me want a V2. Whereas if you took the Apple Watch at launch the flaws and things they would have to address were obvious to me.

Lacking at launch:

Stereo Pairing
Multroom
3rd party support, particularly for Spotify Users
Can only sync with one iCloud account
Siri's lack of ability
Security issues, anybody can ask it to read your texts

Creamy Goodness · 07-02-2018 12:58pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Lacking at launch:

Stereo Pairing
Multroom
3rd party support, particularly for Spotify Users
Can only sync with one iCloud account
Siri's lack of ability
Security issues, anybody can ask it to read your texts

To your last point, you can turn off it being able to read your texts/calendars etc. but it cripples the device further.

peteeeed · 07-02-2018 1:05pm

so wait till it gets a proper release in this country and see what as been rectified by then

murpho999 · 07-02-2018 1:37pm

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

To your last point, you can turn off it being able to read your texts/calendars etc. but it cripples the device further.

I don't like "solutions" that restrict your device. Same as people who recommend switching almost every function off to spare battery life.

Apple are building up a record of releasing incomplete products at launch over the last few years and it really should stop.

adox · 07-02-2018 1:44pm

Bob24 wrote: »

I guess there are a different target audiences. I might be in a small minority I am not sure, but personally I have little interest in “smart” features and all I want is an easy to use speaker which outputs great sound from my various sources (including wirelessly for iPhones and iPads) and plays nice in the Apple ecosystem. This is why I was never interested in the Google or Amazon offerings ... the lack of focus on audio quality and complete focus on Siri type of features. So actually personally (and again I might be in a minority) I actually like the way Apple set their priorities compared to the competition.

But by definition they are mono speakers. It cant even be paired for stereo, so its a moot point in a way. If I was going for sound quality id be looking at stereo at least.

I have a Google Home that I use for casual listening and have a Chromecast connected to my Home Theatre system if I want to use the Home as listen to music in better quality.

The smart features are integral to the product and I would say you are in a minority if you want to use it only for music.

I really like a lot of Apple products but this doesnt appeal to me at all and seems to be at near Beta stage for what its supposed to be.

Bob24 · 07-02-2018 2:10pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Lacking at launch:

* Stereo Pairing
* Multroom
- 3rd party support, particularly for Spotify Users
- Can only sync with one iCloud account
Siri's lack of ability
Security issues, anybody can ask it to read your texts

I don’t think any of those are covered by “wait for V2” (which was the original point).

The ones I marked with * will be supported by the V1, the ones marked with - are deliberate choices by Apple which are unlikely to change for a V2 (and if they were to update iOS to support these it would likely work on the V1). Siri will not perform better on V2 than V1 (same as it doesn’t perform better in an iPhone X than on an iPhone 5S), and the security “issue” is not really one as you can disable the feature.

murpho999 · 07-02-2018 3:17pm

Bob24 wrote: »

I don’t think any of those are covered by “wait for V2” (which was the original point).

The ones I marked with * will be supported by the V1, the ones marked with - are deliberate choices by Apple which are unlikely to change for a V2 (and if they were to update iOS to support these it would likely work on the V1). Siri will not perform better on V2 than V1 (same as it doesn’t perform better in an iPhone X than on an iPhone 5S), and the security “issue” is not really one as you can disable the feature.

The starred items will not be available at launch, and therefore the product should not be launched in my opinion.

Blocking the likes of Spotify, is wrong in my opinion. I use Apple Music, so no issue for me but my wife uses Spotify and she would have to jump through hoops to get it to work.

Siri needs to be improved to work better. I would not use an iPhone if it could only work through Siri and that's how it is with the speaker.

Having to disable something is not right either. The security should be better.

All of the above are software issues, so by V2, I mean I would wait until the software is upgraded before buying.
I think it's a very poor product at launch especially when you look at the premium price they charge.

glideslope · 07-02-2018 4:37pm

murpho999 wrote: »

The starred items will not be available at launch, and therefore the product should not be launched in my opinion.

Blocking the likes of Spotify, is wrong in my opinion. I use Apple Music, so no issue for me but my wife uses Spotify and she would have to jump through hoops to get it to work.

Siri needs to be improved to work better. I would not use an iPhone if it could only work through Siri and that's how it is with the speaker.

Having to disable something is not right either. The security should be better.

All of the above are software issues, so by V2, I mean I would wait until the software is upgraded before buying.
I think it's a very poor product at launch especially when you look at the premium price they charge.

Spotify is not blocked - it will work fine through airplay. The missing feature is being able to use Spotify with Siri ie ask Siri to play a song on Spotify. The HomePod will come up in a list of available devices in your Spotify app.

Bob24 · 07-02-2018 5:00pm

glideslope wrote: »

Spotify is not blocked - it will work fine through airplay. The missing feature is being able to use Spotify with Siri ie ask Siri to play a song on Spotify. The HomePod will come up in a list of available devices in your Spotify app.

Yes I think people either didn’t read the details or are being a bit dishonest when they talk abou this.

Any airplay compatible app (that is pretty much any music app) will be able to send audio to be HomePod via airplay.

Bob24 · 07-02-2018 5:13pm

murpho999 wrote: »

The starred items will not be available at launch, and therefore the product should not be launched in my opinion.

Blocking the likes of Spotify, is wrong in my opinion. I use Apple Music, so no issue for me but my wife uses Spotify and she would have to jump through hoops to get it to work.

Siri needs to be improved to work better. I would not use an iPhone if it could only work through Siri and that's how it is with the speaker.

Having to disable something is not right either. The security should be better.

All of the above are software issues, so by V2, I mean I would wait until the software is upgraded before buying.
I think it's a very poor product at launch especially when you look at the premium price they charge.

Honestly I don’t see the problem with stereo and multi room beeing available down the line. I doubt it will bother many people or make Apple lose many sales, but in any case if you want those just wait for them to arrive and judge the product as it is today. There is no issue with releasing it for people who don’t need it in the short term.

The Spotify complaint is futile IMO. It is hardly a surprise that Apple is only baking Apple Music into Siri and not Spotify. And it won’t change anytime soon as they always favour their own products in terms of deep integration.

Yeah Siri has room for improvement so people who are focused on that aspect might see it as a concern, sales number will tell.

The security aspect I can discuss and I don’t know how Google/Amazon are handling this. Do they have a reliable authentication to restrict some feature to certain users?

Overall it gives me a bit of an AirPod feel: a lot of negative noise at first based on theoretical issues which exist but don’t affect that many users, but once people try it they like it and it sells pretty well.

murpho999 · 07-02-2018 5:22pm

glideslope wrote: »

Spotify is not blocked - it will work fine through airplay. The missing feature is being able to use Spotify with Siri ie ask Siri to play a song on Spotify. The HomePod will come up in a list of available devices in your Spotify app.

Bob24 wrote: »

Yes I think people either didn’t read the details or are being a bit dishonest when they talk abou this.

Any airplay compatible app (that is pretty much any music app) will be able to send audio to be HomePod via airplay.

Fair enough but if you're paying top whack for a smart speaker then you should be able to use it smartly.

adox · 07-02-2018 7:04pm

Google Home and Amazon Echo both have Spotify integration despite both companies having and pushing their own music services so Apple are different there and not offering as much.

Saying you can airplay it is kind of missing the point of a smart speaker.

Look if you are happy with the limitations of it fair enough but it is incredibly limited no matte what way you look at it.

It’s disappointing because Apple are already a couple of years late and are serving this up.

Bob24 · 07-02-2018 7:27pm

adox wrote: »

Google Home and Amazon Echo both have Spotify integration despite both companies having and pushing their own music services so Apple are different there and not offering as much.

But again it is typical Apple behaviour to only deeply integrate its own service. I totally understand that some people don’t like it, but there is no point complaining about it as this is what they always do so it was to be expected and is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. If if is a showstopper for someone not to have deep Spotify integration they should just move on and stop considering the HomePod. Waiting for that integration to be delivered would be misunderstanding Apple’s strategy (it is not about being late but about having a different strategy, they would have had the resources to easily and quickly implement Spotify integration if they wanted to).

And before someone says the pool of potential buyers is too small: https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/4/16971436/apple-music-surpass-spotify-us-subscribers

Let’s be clear: an important goal for Apple is to drive even more subscriptions and bring even more people into their ecosystem in order to secure future hardware sales. Google and Amazon have a different business model / philosophy and will behave accordingly - and consumers can choose whatever suits them best (they all have advantages and drawbacks).

adox · 07-02-2018 8:14pm

Bob24 wrote: »

But again it is typical Apple behaviour to only deeply integrate its own service. I totally understand that some people don’t like it, but there is no point complaining about it as this is what they always do so it was to be expected and is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. If if is a showstopper for someone not to have deep Spotify integration they should just move on and stop considering the HomePod. Waiting for that integration to be delivered would be misunderstanding Apple’s strategy (it is not about being late but about having a different strategy, they would have had the resources to easily and quickly implement Spotify integration if they wanted to).

And before someone says the pool of potential buyers is too small: https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/4/16971436/apple-music-surpass-spotify-us-subscribers

Let’s be clear: an important goal for Apple is to drive even more subscriptions and bring even more people into their ecosystem in order to secure future hardware sales. Google and Amazon have a different business model / philosophy and will behave accordingly - and consumers can choose whatever suits them best (they all have advantages and drawbacks).

All fair points and I never denied that it wasn’t typical Apple or that it would sell. My point was it is entering the smart speaker at a very late stage and isn’t in fact that smart, kind of the point of the product.
Also I was trying to point out that being already in the Apple eco system doesn’t mean you have to buy this product as a smart speaker or it would be a lot of hassle changing to a different smart speaker because it isn’t Apple.

Also I’m not really complaining about it, just pointing out and questioning its sever limitations as a product which is disappointing.

My personal opinion is that Apple are producing less and less exciting products over the last few years while inflating the prices greatly. This is com8ng from s9meone typing on an iPad, uses a iPhone(although had happily switched to Android in the past without issue)uses a Mac and has two different generations of Apple TV.

So I’ve been a fan of Apple products for years but am finding myself less and less inclined to but their products. The iPad is actually probably my favourite Apple product. Happened to be in NY when it was launched originally and got one and have had one ever since, which I use everyday. A new one will be my next Apple purchase and I wouldn’t be without one.

I’m just trying to give a bit of context to show that I’m not on here to bash the product or Apple products in general but that I find the HomePod hugely underwhelming and I can’t help but think that Apple are taking people for a bit of a ride with it in its current iteration. Maybe I’m putting it a bit strongly but I certainly feel like it’s an inferior product to what’s out there.

I’m sure it will sell by the bucket load as usual but I do think people will become more savvy about products eventually (especially the like of these smart speakers) ad may not be so quick to part with their cash without looking at alternatives.

Bob24 · 07-02-2018 8:40pm

adox wrote: »

My personal opinion is that Apple are producing less and less exciting products over the last few years while inflating the prices greatly. This is com8ng from s9meone typing on an iPad, uses a iPhone(although had happily switched to Android in the past without issue)uses a Mac and has two different generations of Apple TV.

Yep definitely agree with that. I would still say iPhones are the hardware I like best but the gap is not as big as it used to be and prices are getting seriously repulsive if you want that top hardware. Having said that it still is an no brainer for me because of the software and business model. I don't like Android compared to iOS and don't want to use hardware running on an OS distributed be a company whose main source of income is to mine user data to serve targeted advertisement. Plus Apple still has the best ecosystem integration IMO (as long as you mostly use their services which I don't mind but understand some people do).

And yes Apple hasn't really done an iPod or an iPhone for some time ... i.e a new product class which just blows away the rest of the industry.

But back on topic, I think the game is very open for the HomePod. I might be wrong but I personally think nice design, good integration in the Apple ecosystem, ease of use, and good sound quality with adaptation to the room could make it successful with Apple customers. I know I am a bit of a fanboy but since I already have Siri in my iPhone, Mac, iPad and Apple Watch I really don't see the point of having it on a device sitting in my living room. Even other potential customers will have at least an iPhone as well. This is why I think the smart aspect is overhyped on the internet as it is basically just another microphone to access the virtual assistant we already have. It is clearly different for Amazon who hasn't put all these other devices in their customers hands. I think there is a good number potential customers who just want a good sounding speaker which is very easy to use with Apple devices. I could be wrong but it kind of reminds be the beginning of the EarPod which got trashed online: it turned out that just being a ok sounding, very easy to use with Apple devices, very comfortable pair of wireless earphone was enough to appeal to many Apple customers and initial complaints about other potential issues were just noise.

glideslope · 08-02-2018 1:16pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Fair enough but if you're paying top whack for a smart speaker then you should be able to use it smartly.

Yes agreed - that’s why I wouldn’t buy one with it’s current feature set.

Bob24 · 09-02-2018 12:24pm

The initial users feedback seems in line with the reviews: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/02/08/homepod-first-impressions-regular-users/

If people are OK with the various restrictions, it really does seem like Apple is delivering value for money in terms of audio quality.

whippet · 09-02-2018 5:52pm

mine is enroute to Parcel Motel at the moment so will hopefully have it this weekend and let you know how I find it.

HomePod

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