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Cycle Lane Defenders without gaps

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  • 25-09-2020 10:39pm
    #1
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭


    Does anyone know about whether new cycle Lane Defenders installed for segregating cyclists from traffic that are continuous (no gaps) are required to be a certain color or reflective? My bike collided with one and I ended up flipping onto road. They don't seem to be well thought out from safety perspective. Luckily there was no traffic incoming when I went over.


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    #2
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,166 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    They're fake. They don't protect you, they're designed for cars to drive over them.

    No standards apply.


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    #3
    bobbyy gee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭bobbyy gee


    i have sern reflective ones and non reflective


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    #4
    r439z5ifwt8soq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭r439z5ifwt8soq


    ED E wrote: »
    They're fake.

    I'm sure OP can definitely vouch that they're real hahaha

    https://www.cyclemanual.ie/manual/thebasics/mixed/

    Some info on that site from what appears to be an NTA website.


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    #5
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    The issue was they appear half way down on the cycle track, and the space which is already narrow was narrowed further due to their installation. They're also very low and from my experience with wheel hitting off them became a trip hazard. I actually ended up in line of traffic!. I crashed into ones on Stillorgan Park Road. Quite shaken after the incident and my phone got crushed by car after falling onto road. Better it than me I guess!

    At this by stage I've had more accidents due to lack of council intervention e.g. dangerous potholes, and actual council intervention such as segregation barriers which don't seem to have been thought out properly, than with cars. It was evening time and these barriers became invisible to me until I hit them.

    I find the whole design of cycle path on Stillorgan Park Road stemming from N11 a continuous hazard. It would make more sense to have begun segregation from the corner off motorway, the hill down feels like an. Evel Knievel ramp deathtrap .

    ETA: This type of cycle lane segregation was a kerb design from reading NTA website. I've cycled this route hundreds of times. Who could I give feedback to, am I better off contacting the NTA or council?


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    #6
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    ED E wrote: »
    They're fake. They don't protect you, they're designed for cars to drive over them.

    No standards apply.

    I would agree in the sense that if a car went for it at a angle they'd prove useless. If anything, pre-installation it was probably safer. Plastic bollards would of been far more practical.


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    #7
    ratracer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭ratracer


    Were you on the phone when you hit the lane marker?


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    #8
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    ratracer wrote: »
    Were you on the phone when you hit the lane marker?

    No I was playing Xbox in actual fact, silly me, case closed.


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    #9
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭homer911


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    My bike I collided with one
    Fixed that post for you


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    #10
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    homer911 wrote: »
    Fixed that post for you


    My bike asked me to thank you.


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    #11
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,960 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    ... I've had more accidents due to lack of council intervention e.g. dangerous potholes, and actual council intervention such as segregation barriers which don't seem to have been thought out properly, than with cars. It was evening time and these barriers became invisible to me until I hit them...
    From reading the above, it's clear to me where the problem lies.

    Why would you expect them to be reflective? Kerbs are not reflective nor are potholes. Pedestrians, motor vehicles, other cyclists - where does it end?

    Are you wearing that WoolyRedHat over your eyes?


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    #12
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    From reading the above, it's clear to me where the problem lies.

    Why would you expect them to be reflective? Kerbs are not reflective nor are potholes. Pedestrians, motor vehicles, other cyclists - where does it end?

    Are you wearing that WoolyRedHat over your eyes?

    This was higher than a kerb though and have you ever knocked off a kerb and flipped?.Have you ever driven on a road where a kerb appears halfway? Also kerbs aren't jet black. Your logic is a bit suspect.


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    #13
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,960 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    .. Your logic is a bit suspect.
    Perhaps, but in all my years cycling I don't ever recall coming off the bike because I collided with an inanimate object*. I did have a spill a few years ago after sliding on mud on a bend and on ice but that's not exactly colliding with something as such. (And I do a lot of cycling in the dark).

    *Excluding collisions where I was struck by a the driver of a motor vehicle.


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    #14
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Perhaps, but in all my years cycling I don't ever recall coming off the bike because I collided with an inanimate object*. I did have a spill a few years ago after sliding on mud on a bend and on ice but that's not exactly colliding with something as such. (And I do a lot of cycling in the dark).

    *Excluding collisions where I was struck by a the driver of a motor vehicle.

    Ok that's fair enough, but just because you haven't experienced it doesn't negate my own one.


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    #15
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,770 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    Does anyone know about whether new cycle Lane Defenders installed for segregating cyclists from traffic that are continuous (no gaps) are required to be a certain color or reflective? My bike collided with one and I ended up flipping onto road. They don't seem to be well thought out from safety perspective. Luckily there was no traffic incoming when I went over.
    what type are referring to?


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    #16
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    expectationlost wrote: »
    what type are referring to?

    Quite similar to below and as narrow.


    _114245057_uttoxeterroad3.png


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    #17
    r439z5ifwt8soq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭r439z5ifwt8soq


    Apart from being a bit of an eyesore, that looks fairly grand


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    #18
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,492 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    where did this happen?


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    #19
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    where did this happen?

    On Stillorgan Park Road, Dublin. The visibility on that road at stretches isn't great.


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    #20
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    But you should only go as fast as you are able to see to be clear, so if a road has not great visibility, the person cycing should go at a not great speed


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    #21
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    But you should only go as fast as you are able to see to be clear, so if a road has not great visibility, the person cycing should go at a not great speed

    I wasn't going at great speed though.


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    #22
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    I know that road.
    I struggle to see how, unless you're not paying due care and attention why you'd collide with the barriers. Roads are quite changeable - even if no road furniture is added- much more so as a cyclist than a driver. There are things that have a big effect on a bike that are nothing to a car. Awareness is key.

    Chalk it up, at least now you know where they are, and you know what happens if you go into some, so it probably won't happen again.


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    #23
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    My bike collided with one and I ended up flipping onto road. They don't seem to be well thought out from safety perspective.

    Glad that you weren't hurt. It's a good lessen to pay more attention when you're cycling. Like the people who get a wheel stuck in the Luas tracks. It happens once, and you pay better attention the next time you are cycling near them.


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    #24
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,911 ✭✭✭kirving


    The logical conclusions to your concerns are obvious, so you won't get much sympathy on the cycling forum.

    But you're right OP, there is such thing as bad design - and it's the reason road markings are white and not brown, and why road paint is supposed to have a gritty texture to it.

    I don't know the road, but barriers that height look perfect to catch a pedal and throw you off.

    As another example of bad design, look at the kerbs and bollard here. They're yellow, but still have been hit what looks like dozens of times. If lots of people are making the same mistake - then it's likely that bad design is contributing to the problem. Think how many times black barriers would be hit.

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/5NNTTUMgxUnjNxfZ8


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    #25
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,960 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    ...As another example of bad design, look at the kerbs and bollard here. They're yellow, but still have been hit what looks like dozens of times. If lots of people are making the same mistake - then it's likely that bad design is contributing to the problem. Think how many times black barriers would be hit.

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/5NNTTUMgxUnjNxfZ8
    That entrance to Drury Street car park is quite tight especially for larger SUV's hence the scuffing on the kerbs. It could hardly be described as a 'mistake' by drivers though as it's not as if they are unaware of the kerb. (I use the cycle park there regularly and am often following behind a vehicle rubbing against the kerbs).


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    #26
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,911 ✭✭✭kirving


    Ah yeah I understand that, but poor design does lead to, not mistakes, but nevertheless impacts with the barrier.

    I'd like to see some pics of where the OP had the fall.

    Had a bad fall on very badly designed MTB trail recently. Obviously my own responsibility, but to give some context, within a day of me falling, a guy broke his leg, and another guy broke his collarbone like me.

    Had it been an official trail, I would actually feel like I had a moral duty to take a case (and donate to charity) to reduce the likelihood of any further incident.

    I just have very little time for bad design, as it does lead to injuries. I'm a big believer in personal responsibility too, but within the bounds of the best possible infrastructure.


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    #27
    Seaswimmer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭Seaswimmer


    not quite the same but the new cycle lane on Seapoint Avenue in Blackrock has a black divider to separate it from the traffic lane. A visually impaired friend of ours commented that she finds it very hard to discriminate it from the black tarmac road when crossing. I raised a case with DLR council to see if it could be made hi vis for a couple of metres each side of the crossing points. After a number of emails from various departments it has gone back to the design team for consideration.

    OP. I find DLR COCO will respond to all queries re infrastructure. They may not necessarily do anything about it but in my experience they will always keep you updated.

    info@dlrcoco.ie


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    #28
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,500 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    I see the problem with them, but a bit like the Luas tracks I think that once you give a bit of thought to them they shouldnt be a problem.

    Overall its a big improvement.

    I know with the low ones cars can drive over them.

    However
    (i) Many drivers wont know that
    (ii) Its a funny thing with drivers, but they dont want their cars to get scratched - I know thats stating the obvious a bit, but they get really freaked about it, as if it matters at all if the precious car gets scratched - the bloody thing drives just the same FFS. And for that reason they will avoid them.
    (iii) Psychologically, drivers dont want to hit anything, gives them a fright.

    Dublin Bus is a bit of an exception to the above, their drivers dont have much issue with knocking a few over.


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    #29
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,960 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    ....Dublin Bus is a bit of an exception to the above, their drivers dont have much issue with knocking a few over.
    Most people who drive a vehicle which is owned by a 'faceless' company seem to have the same attitude. Every vehicle we have at work has minor damage in almost every panel and the bumpers are always scuffed. The staff driving them would certainly not allow this to happen when driving their own cars.


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    #30
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,500 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    To the above - probably the bigger issue I have is that these highlight how narrow the cycle lanes are.

    Not so much of a problem if the surface is good - but so many cycle lanes are full of grates, man holes, double yellows and general potholery.

    And there is 100% no overtaking in them.


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