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2008 v 2016 Van

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  • 08-09-2020 11:33am
    #1
    jodaw
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭


    Trying to work out the economics of converting a panel van to 4 berth camper. Ideally I would want a newish base vehicle with fairly low mileage as this would be ideally a family vehicle for 10 years.

    My big problem with converting a 2016 van would be the fact I may receive a euromillion omsp for vrt purposes.

    I may be missing some things but a quick overview of some figures plucked from sky is

    2008 van price 4000 + 200vrt (nox charge?)
    2016 van price 12000 + 200vrt (nox charge?)

    Conversion costs 8000 regardless of van

    Then not entirely sure exactly what is required pre registration in terms of gas/engineering sign offs.

    Then the big mystery is vrt value.

    Would it make any difference the spec of the fit out or are revenue just looking at reg.

    So I want to over estimate the omsp picking values from air.

    2008 omsp 15000 x 13.5 = 2025 (original 200 vrt discounted?)
    2016 omsp 35000 x 13.5 = 4725

    Those are painful numbers. Does anyone have any experience registering newer vans and older vans?


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    #2
    Hooked
    Registered Users Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭Hooked


    Revenue won’t care what the van cost. They’ll place their own (inflated) value on it. You can keep all build receipts to keep their ‘conversion’ figure down... this is what I did. As I made everything. Bar the sink! 😂

    But yes... an older van with lower mileage was my approach.

    I vrt’d an 05 transporter in early 2019.
    My mate across the road did a similar fitout to his 2015 T5.1

    My vrt bill was 700. His... four times that! 2,800.

    And my van has less mileage... but a good ‘older’ van is hard to find.


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    #3
    Hooked
    Registered Users Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭Hooked


    Regarding the build itself:


    The short summary is as follows...

    Satisfy revenue... link here.
    https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/conversions/specific-vehicles.aspx

    Speak to your SQI before you start (if not too late for that). Beds, kitchen, cookers, gas, etc.., all need to be installed in a particular way!

    Once SQI signs it off, you then need to pay VRT to revenue to officially convert. The VRT value depends on the van cost PLUS the build cost (you'll need receipts for the build) - vrt calculated at 13.3%

    Once paid, you'll get a cert from revenue. Tax office next... 102 euro PER YEAR 😂 then a new log book is issued

    Last thing.., you play the 'looking for insurance' game! This can be tricky if your internal height inside is less than 1.8m! This is NOT an issue for revenue! Only insurers.

    It all sounds a lot more daunting than it actually is!


    Get over to SELF BUILD CAMPERVANS IRELAND on Facebook. Great group full of like minded people


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    #4
    niloc1951
    Registered Users Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    To keep the dreaded VRT to a minimum do the build in two stages.
    First do the absolute minimum to qualify as 'motor caravan' SEE HERE
    After the category has been changed upgrade the spec in your own time with all the luxuries you want.


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    #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    2008 / 2016 they're both too new for me.

    If it has a limp home mode then I'd pass. I like campers you can fix with a hammer on the side of a trail in the boonies.
    The newer they are the less reliable at the same mileage.


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    #6
    Buford T Justice
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭Buford T Justice


    Hooked wrote: »
    Regarding the build itself:
    The VRT value depends on the van cost PLUS the build cost (you'll need receipts for the build) - vrt calculated at 13.3%

    No. Just no.
    Build cost is irrelevant. Revenue will base the VRT on what they deem the OMSP (Open Market Selling Price) of the van to be based on similar vehicles for sale on the market today. They will then calculate is as a %age of that value

    When I converted and re-classified my first van I supplied no receipts for any of what I spend on the actual conversion


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    #7
    Buford T Justice
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭Buford T Justice


    Sir Liamalot wrote: »
    2008 / 2016 they're both too new for me.

    If it has a limp home mode then I'd pass. I like campers you can fix with a hammer on the side of a trail in the boonies.
    The newer they are the less reliable at the same mileage.

    That 96 transit I had was tough work to drive, and a noisy bastard to boot. So glad the new van is more modern and is smooth over the roads.


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    #8
    bobbyy gee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭bobbyy gee


    It might be buy a motorhome already built


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    #9
    Buford T Justice
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭Buford T Justice


    bobbyy gee wrote: »
    It might be buy a motorhome already built

    ? :confused:


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    #10
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,390 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Buford T Justice wrote: »
    ? :confused:

    Same fella got 600 points in the leaving on another thread,


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    #11
    jodaw
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭jodaw


    Thanks for all the advice guys. Colm great build thread going on for the Ducato. Is that an L4H3 variant?

    I would like to maximize space on the build so my choice of vehicle would be L4H3 Ducato or relay. In my op I said I wanted 5 berth. We have a little one that could sleep with us in double at present but going forward 5 berth.

    Some ideas regarding how to managed this would be.

    *Keep bench seat in front to seat three and then two belted seats behind. Not ideal. I have seen a double and single swivel seat base for sprinter but not for relay/Ducato.

    Even with that not ideal and fiddly to reverse the seats and not ideal seating position.

    The best solution I have seen is 3 removable ford torneo seat in back, but this would remove much space at side door and access from front seats to back of van.

    * Was thinking to exclude shower.

    * Was looking at the cabbunk bunk type beds for across front seats.

    With regards to vrt. I seen someone on motorhomecraic done a two stage build on 2014 sprinter and got vrt bill of just over 2k, which is not too bad.

    Other 2008 build got 1.3k bill, so not a huge difference.

    So from the point of view of vrt minimisation, what would be best approach? Exclude solar panel, motorised steps, bare bones kitchen, ply finishes etc...


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    #12
    Buford T Justice
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭Buford T Justice


    jodaw wrote: »
    Thanks for all the advice guys. Colm great build thread going on for the Ducato. Is that an L4H3 variant?

    I would like to maximize space on the build so my choice of vehicle would be L4H3 Ducato or relay. In my op I said I wanted 5 berth. We have a little one that could sleep with us in double at present but going forward 5 berth.

    Some ideas regarding how to managed this would be.

    *Keep bench seat in front to seat three and then two belted seats behind. Not ideal. I have seen a double and single swivel seat base for sprinter but not for relay/Ducato.

    Even with that not ideal and fiddly to reverse the seats and not ideal seating position.

    The best solution I have seen is 3 removable ford torneo seat in back, but this would remove much space at side door and access from front seats to back of van.

    * Was thinking to exclude shower.

    * Was looking at the cabbunk bunk type beds for across front seats.

    With regards to vrt. I seen someone on motorhomecraic done a two stage build on 2014 sprinter and got vrt bill of just over 2k, which is not too bad.

    Other 2008 build got 1.3k bill, so not a huge difference.

    So from the point of view of vrt minimisation, what would be best approach? Exclude solar panel, motorised steps, bare bones kitchen, ply finishes etc...

    Seat bases can be got from lots of places. I have two swivel seats from a renault espace. If it's a base you need, you could always make one


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    #13
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,390 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    jodaw wrote: »
    Thanks for all the advice guys. Colm great build thread going on for the Ducato. Is that an L4H3 variant?

    Thanks - it's a L3H2, so about 350mm less length than the L4, and 240mm less internal height than a H3.
    For your project an L4H3 is the way to go.
    jodaw wrote: »
    I would like to maximize space on the build so my choice of vehicle would be L4H3 Ducato or relay. In my op I said I wanted 5 berth. We have a little one that could sleep with us in double at present but going forward 5 berth.
    I think you're right. you can see from our conversion that the width in the back would mean you can do a transverse bed easily, and with the extra height (and maybe putting the bottom bunk lower than we did) you could easily get 2 doubles in the back, or a double with a single on top

    jodaw wrote: »
    Some ideas regarding how to managed this would be.

    *Keep bench seat in front to seat three and then two belted seats behind. Not ideal. I have seen a double and single swivel seat base for sprinter but not for relay/Ducato.
    They can be got. The main drawback on them is the increased seat height vs the overhead storage area. they are a bit fiddly too as you say, but it would be easier to have 3 seats up front and 2 behind.

    jodaw wrote: »
    Even with that not ideal and fiddly to reverse the seats and not ideal seating position.

    The best solution I have seen is 3 removable ford torneo seat in back, but this would remove much space at side door and access from front seats to back of van.

    * Was thinking to exclude shower.

    * Was looking at the cabbunk bunk type beds for across front seats.
    The cabbunk seats would work, as would a Rib seat that folds down and turns into a bed. I would say you'll still be able to fit a shower and toilet too if you plan it out properly.
    jodaw wrote: »
    With regards to vrt. I seen someone on motorhomecraic done a two stage build on 2014 sprinter and got vrt bill of just over 2k, which is not too bad.

    Other 2008 build got 1.3k bill, so not a huge difference.

    So from the point of view of vrt minimisation, what would be best approach? Exclude solar panel, motorised steps, bare bones kitchen, ply finishes etc...

    I've seen a good few people take that approach.


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