Bike to Work scheme - the Megathread - Read post #1 before posting

grogi · 07-08-2020 2:03pm

engineer0 wrote: »

I have seen a few posts asking about how to get a Canyon Bike, using bike to work scheme. Canyon provided the following details to me,
FYI

In order to use the Cycle to Work scheme in Ireland you need to purchase the bike as normal on www.canyon.com. Then on the checkout make sure that the company name is listed as the billing address.
The Irish Cycle to work scheme does not require a specific form or process, all you need to do is to simply order the bike, making sure that the customer name and address are filled in with the details of the company who is buying the bike.
Then select Pre-Payment as the payment method then an invoice will be generated and sent to you by email. Please then pass the invoice to the HR department of your company for payment.
Your HR will be able to reimburse the VAT, all they need are the registered details of Canyon in Ireland:
Member State: IE
VAT Number: IE 9685412C
Name: CANYON BICYCLES GMBH
Address: KARL - TESCHE -STR 12 ,D-56073 KOBLENZ ,GERMANY

That VAT story is a bit dodgy. The employer should not claim the VAT back on this purchase, as the bike is not theirs to keep. They would need to pay the VAT at the moment of the transfer of the ownership to you.

iwillhtfu · 07-08-2020 4:42pm

grogi wrote: »

That VAT story is a bit dodgy. The employer should not claim the VAT back on this purchase, as the bike is not theirs to keep. They would need to pay the VAT at the moment of the transfer of the ownership to you.

They're clearly misinterpreting where the discount is applied. Why would they be bothered reading up on all the bike to work schemes it's none of their business, they sell bikes.

MojoMaker · 07-08-2020 7:06pm

Yeah, I think the VAT element is a red herring here.

dinneenp · 07-08-2020 11:46pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

the issue with canyon is not that they won't engage with the scheme, per se, but that they won't split an invoice if the purchase exceeds the threshold (currently €1k)

I bought from them, 2 months ago, over €1k. I simply paid the excess myself.

magicbastarder · 08-08-2020 12:09am

cool, sounds like they've changed that policy so.

bilasy · 08-08-2020 3:08pm

Sorry for the basic question, if the bike costs €1500 and the employers gets back €1500 from my salary sacrifice over the 12 month where are the savings, I’m on the higher tax
Thanks

Officer Giggles · 08-08-2020 5:29pm

bilasy wrote: »

Sorry for the basic question, if the bike costs €1500 and the employers gets back €1500 from my salary sacrifice over the 12 month where are the savings, I’m on the higher tax
Thanks

If the bike costs €1500, €1000 is repaid via salary sacrifice and you pay the other 500 upfront, the €1000 is taken from your pre-tax income therefore you don't pay tax on that income, in reality the €1000 pay back only took €520 out of your pocket, the €480 saving is from not having to pay tax on the €1000 you earned

cython · 08-08-2020 5:36pm

Officer Giggles wrote: »

If the bike costs €1500, €1000 is repaid via salary sacrifice and you pay the other 500 upfront, the €1000 is taken from your pre-tax income therefore you don't pay tax on that income, in reality the €1000 pay back only took €520 out of your pocket, the €480 saving is from not having to pay tax on the €1000 you earned

Other way around surely (once you're talking the higher rate)? Of that 1000, the employee would have paid 52% or 520 in tax, and only gotten 480 into their pocket?

magicbastarder · 08-08-2020 5:38pm

in order to benefit from the ful €1.5k, you'll need to be buying an e-bike on the new thresholds (whenever they are introduced).
at the moment, the limit you can benefit from is €1k, and the extra €500k comes out of your own pocket (and does not benefit from any tax efficiencies).

bilasy · 08-08-2020 6:59pm

Officer Giggles wrote: »

If the bike costs €1500, €1000 is repaid via salary sacrifice and you pay the other 500 upfront, the €1000 is taken from your pre-tax income therefore you don't pay tax on that income, in reality the €1000 pay back only took €520 out of your pocket, the €480 saving is from not having to pay tax on the €1000 you earned

Assuming the changes takes place in September and I submit my quote to avail of the €1500, the employer rules is that I have to repay the €1500 before 31/12/20, which option is more beneficial paying €250 every forthright ( as the amount I don’t pay tax on is higher) or just wait till January and split the payment over 12 months?

Idleater · 08-08-2020 9:01pm

bilasy wrote: »

which option is more beneficial

Depends on what you define as beneficial. You won't pay more or save more either way, but it will be over and done with quickly or slower with different amount per interval.
Also do you want to have use of the bike in 2020 or only from 2021?

bilasy · 09-08-2020 7:16am

Idleater wrote: »

Depends on what you define as beneficial. You won't pay more or save more either way, but it will be over and done with quickly or slower with different amount per interval.
Also do you want to have use of the bike in 2020 or only from 2021?

If there is no difference I’d rather get the bike in January and make the payment over 12 months.

Idleater · 09-08-2020 10:47am

bilasy wrote: »

If there is no difference I’d rather get the bike in January and make the payment over 12 months.

It's basically a 0% interest loan to you from your employer with payments taken from your gross pay, if you leave the job the remainder will be lumped together.

CramCycle · 09-08-2020 12:03pm

bilasy wrote: »

If there is no difference I’d rather get the bike in January and make the payment over 12 months.

Depending on the employer, it probably makes no difference when you get it, as most (not all) pay back over 12 months, I would do it as soon as the limit goes up to 1250 if they do it over 12 months. Rumour has it that will come in this September.

grogi · 09-08-2020 12:27pm

bilasy wrote: »

Assuming the changes takes place in September and I submit my quote to avail of the €1500, the employer rules is that I have to repay the €1500 before 31/12/20, which option is more beneficial paying €250 every forthright ( as the amount I don’t pay tax on is higher) or just wait till January and split the payment over 12 months?

If you're barerly (like €500) into the highest 40% PAYE scale, it will be beneficial to get the bicycle this year and finish paying it back next year. That way you maximize the tax relief.

Otherwise it doesn't matter.

bilasy · 09-08-2020 1:47pm

grogi wrote: »

If you're barerly (like €500) into the highest 40% PAYE scale, it will be beneficial to get the bicycle this year and finish paying it back next year. That way you maximize the tax relief.

Otherwise it doesn't matter.

Unfortunately it’s not doable that way, if I get the bike this year I have to repay it all within 2020.

CramCycle · 09-08-2020 2:33pm

bilasy wrote: »

Unfortunately it’s not doable that way, if I get the bike this year I have to repay it all within 2020.

Is that a company thing? As they don't have to do it within the tax year, if its a small company, it might be wirth pointing it out. If they have made it company policy, and they won't budge, if you apply now, you have 4 months to repay. So 250 a month or around 75 a week gross. At the higher rates you will pay 36 a week, at lower rates, not asking your salary, you could be paying 56euro a week.

its your choice, you won't save anymore on one year over another but if 12 months is more convenient and your company won't budge, then wait till January.

iwillhtfu · 09-08-2020 3:32pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Is that a company thing? As they don't have to do it within the tax year, if its a small company, it might be wirth pointing it out. If they have made it company policy, and they won't budge, if you apply now, you have 4 months to repay. So 250 a month or around 75 a week gross. At the higher rates you will pay 36 a week, at lower rates, not asking your salary, you could be paying 56euro a week.

its your choice, you won't save anymore on one year over another but if 12 months is more convenient and your company won't budge, then wait till January.

I think that's a requirement for teachers civil servants they have to pay it back within the calender year or something along those lines.

bilasy · 09-08-2020 4:02pm

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I think that's a requirement for teachers civil servants they have pay it back with the calender year or something along those lines.

It’s a requirement for the the HSE

iwillhtfu · 09-08-2020 4:14pm

bilasy wrote: »

It’s a requirement for the the HSE

You'd be classed as one of these

I think I recall something about ye qualifying for an extra 10% off or something along those lines.

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I think that's a requirement for teachers civil servants they have pay it back with the calender year or something along those lines.

eclipsechaser · 09-08-2020 7:40pm

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/tax-relief-change-raises-the-bar-for-cyclists-h6r33v28n

"The upper limit for tax-free support was €1,000 — until August 1, when it increased to €1,250 for standard bicycles and €1,500 for e-bikes."

The Times suggesting that the new limits are already in?

CramCycle · 10-08-2020 9:22am

eclipsechaser wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/tax-relief-change-raises-the-bar-for-cyclists-h6r33v28n

"The upper limit for tax-free support was €1,000 — until August 1, when it increased to €1,250 for standard bicycles and €1,500 for e-bikes."

The Times suggesting that the new limits are already in?

I can't find anything to say it is, but I haven't looked hard. The last I heard was they planned to get it approved when the Dail returned in September.

dogsears · 10-08-2020 2:49pm

CramCycle wrote: »

I can't find anything to say it is, but I haven't looked hard. The last I heard was they planned to get it approved when the Dail returned in September.

Its confirmed from 1 August according to the newly updated Revenue manuals.

CramCycle · 10-08-2020 7:42pm

My old bike shop is closed, time to find a new one. Any recommendations for South Dublin / North Wicklow.

Fuzzyduzzy · 11-08-2020 9:59am

I tried two shops when I was visiting Galway City (both registered with the bike to work scheme). One shop has abandoned the scheme due to a lack of bikes until Spring, while the other shop simply had no bikes. Is this scheme now dead in the water or can anyone recommend a shop in Connacht that I can avail of it? Thanks

iwillhtfu · 11-08-2020 10:04am

Fuzzyduzzy wrote: »

I tried two shops when I was visiting Galway City (both registered with the bike to work scheme). One shop has abandoned the scheme due to a lack of bikes until Spring, while the other shop simply had no bikes. Is this scheme now dead in the water or can anyone recommend a shop in Connacht that I can avail of it? Thanks

It's not dead at all and the fact there's no sub €1k bikes to be had is a sign it's doing well. I heard reports that stock will start coming in towards the end of August but a lot of shops are hesitant to order in a lot of stock in case the recent upsurge abates.

On the upside the second hand market will be a feast over winter but unfortunately I'd guess the majority of recently purchased bikes will be left outside to rust and sold on after the damage is done.

SuperBW · 11-08-2020 12:00pm

dogsears wrote: »

Its confirmed from 1 August according to the newly updated Revenue manuals.

I went to purchase a bike last week (€1265} and the shop said the limit was still €1000 and didn't know when the limit was increasing. Its annoying that the new date is not clearly defined.

MojoMaker · 11-08-2020 12:12pm

It is clearly defined, it's just your shop didn't make themselves aware of it as quickly as they might have.

Overall though, it hasn't been terribly well communicated once it was defined. Still, if you're in this business then it's your business to know surely.

SuperBW · 11-08-2020 12:52pm

MojoMaker wrote: »

It is clearly defined, it's just your shop didn't make themselves aware of it as quickly as they might have.

Overall though, it hasn't been terribly well communicated once it was defined. Still, if you're in this business then it's your business to know surely.

I guess I could show them the updated manual? However I just checked on revenue and its still shows €1000?

Fuzzyduzzy · 11-08-2020 3:03pm

Can anyone recommend a road bike under €1,000? Looking at Halfords website. First time buyer so would appreciate some insight!

CramCycle · 11-08-2020 3:10pm

SuperBW wrote: »

I went to purchase a bike last week (€1265} and the shop said the limit was still €1000 and didn't know when the limit was increasing. Its annoying that the new date is not clearly defined.

MojoMaker wrote: »

It is clearly defined, it's just your shop didn't make themselves aware of it as quickly as they might have.

Overall though, it hasn't been terribly well communicated once it was defined. Still, if you're in this business then it's your business to know surely.

Just to be clear, what the limit is, is of no concern to the shop, that is the concern of your company, no one else.

MojoMaker · 11-08-2020 6:22pm

Exactly, a shop is not going to impose anything upon you one way or the other.

A clued-in shop owner should be up to speed nonetheless I would think.

TimHorton · 12-08-2020 7:09am

I was due to be able to access again in Jan 2021 , Does the 4 year rule allow me to qualify now ?

mirrormatrix · 12-08-2020 8:26am

TimHorton wrote: »

I was due to be able to access again in Jan 2021 , Does the 4 year rule allow me to qualify now ?

Have the rules on this changed as well? It was always 5 years as far as I can remember?

KP81 · 12-08-2020 8:32am

On when the limit increase kicks in. Tried to get voucher from work for the €1250 and HR say it’s not effective until president signs bill into law. It was at stage 10/11 since Jul 30th. Think Michael D is on hols so that’s why it’s not in place yet ðŸ˜¡

bilasy · 12-08-2020 8:35am

mirrormatrix wrote: »

Have the rules on this changed as well? It was always 5 years as far as I can remember?

The rules changed you can avail of the scheme after 4 years, but I think it will be effective as of 1st September.

dogsears · 12-08-2020 9:47am

KP81 wrote: »

On when the limit increase kicks in. Tried to get voucher from work for the €1250 and HR say it’s not effective until president signs bill into law. It was at stage 10/11 since Jul 30th. Think Michael D is on hols so that’s why it’s not in place yet &#55357;&#56865;

Bill was signed into law on 1 August.

lapua20grain · 12-08-2020 9:56am

My company deals with biketowork.ie and they are still only offering the 1k limit, you would think a company like that would have changed in line with the new limits.

mr spuckler · 12-08-2020 10:23am

bilasy wrote: »

The rules changed you can avail of the scheme after 4 years, but I think it will be effective as of 1st September.

360 cycles in Clontarf posted about this today on FB, saying both the €1,250 limit and the 4 year frequency came into effect from August 1st, meaning purchasers from 2016 are eligible again.

lapua20grain wrote: »

My company deals with biketowork.ie and they are still only offering the 1k limit, you would think a company like that would have changed in line with the new limits.

That just sounds shoddy tbf. I see no mention of the new rules on their website either.

Peck3277 · 12-08-2020 2:04pm

My company deals with biketowork.ie as well. I'm hoping to get a bike through them shortly and noticed that it was only the 1k limit at the moment.

I sent them an email yesterday and got this response:

"We have not yet updated our system. Our developers are currently working on this and we hope to have the new limit set up this week."

Looks like it's just an IT issue and it should be setup correctly this week.

Edit:

I actually have access to the dashboard (travelhub.ie dashboard) when you get registered with biketowork (I bought 5 years ago), and it's displaying the €1250 correctly. Might just be the main site that needs to be updated.

MJohnston · 12-08-2020 2:12pm

When your company literally only exists to admin the Cycle To Work scheme and you can't get that right :facepalm:

magicbastarder · 12-08-2020 3:11pm

also, that statement in the screengrab does not seem to take the e-bike limit into account.

Peck3277 · 12-08-2020 4:09pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

also, that statement in the screengrab does not seem to take the e-bike limit into account.

That was just because I had selected regular bike I think. Looks like its working correctly when I choose electric bike.

nihicib2 · 13-08-2020 8:23am

Hi all, sorry if this has been posted before, Im an SNA and would like to purchase an electric bike through the scheme, is this possible and what is the limit on the spending ?

lapua20grain · 13-08-2020 8:41am

nihicib2 wrote: »

Hi all, sorry if this has been posted before, Im an SNA and would like to purchase an electric bike through the scheme, is this possible and what is the limit on the spending ?

The limit for an electric bike is €1500

Seth Brundle · 13-08-2020 8:59am

lapua20grain wrote: »

nihicib2 wrote: »

Hi all, sorry if this has been posted before, Im an SNA and would like to purchase an electric bike through the scheme, is this possible and what is the limit on the spending ?

The limit for an electric bike is €1500

Just to clarify, there's no limit on the spending. The limit of €1500 is on the relief available.

nihicib2 · 13-08-2020 9:07am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Just to clarify, there's no limit on the spending. The limit of €1500 is on the relief available.

So I can spend more but only get tax relief for 1500 and being an SNA Im assuming the amount its taken from my wages? Sorry for being a thick, Im just getting confused because of how it works with different employers

Seth Brundle · 13-08-2020 9:21am

All of the payment for the bike will be made by your employer e.g. €2500 to the LBS (local bike store).
You will get "relief" on €1500 and not on the other €1000.
So let's assume the relief on the €1500 means you pay €750 (or thereabouts), then out of your wages you pay €1750 (or thereabouts).
This is taken from your salary over an agreed number of months (up to 12).

AndrewJRenko · 13-08-2020 9:27am

MJohnston wrote: »

When your company literally only exists to admin the Cycle To Work scheme and you can't get that right :facepalm:

When your company literally only exists to admin the Cycle To Work scheme and you need to get a developer involved to change a key number in the system :facepalm:

grogi · 13-08-2020 10:03am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

When your company literally only exists to admin the Cycle To Work scheme and you need to get a developer involved to change a key number in the system :facepalm:

It's not that simple. The rules have changed, there are two thresholds now. Plus they need to maintain the history as well.

While I agree that the travelhub is a disgrace of a company, changing it systems is not easy. They should have however started on the changes much earlier.

Bike to Work scheme - the Megathread - Read post #1 before posting

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