Shorten Irish number plates with alphanumeric sequence?

YellowBucket · 09-08-2020 2:56pm #1

It always strikes me as a bit ridiculous that Irish number plates are so long, especially in Dublin and sometimes Cork when the sequence numbers get into 5 digits+

Would it not make sense to have alphanumeric sequences?

202-D-X1Y2

202-C-AX2

You’ve a huge number of combinations and could shorten the plates down to 2 or 3 characters in most cases.

Can’t be THAT complicated to implement.

Smaller counties might even have just 2 alphanumeric characters

09-08-2020 2:57pm

Ireland has the simplest, most sensible, number plate system in the world.

YellowBucket · 09-08-2020 2:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland has the simplest, most sensible, number plate system in the world.

But in the D area the sequences are getting stupidly long.

There’s nothing more complicated about just using alphanumeric string as the sequence . Still has all the structure of the existing system just far less characters to print on a plate.

If anything it would be even simpler than it is now as you’d have even fewer characters and you’d still fully understand the code. It’s just more compact.

AMKC · 09-08-2020 3:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland has the simplest, most sensible, number plate system in the world.

Agree totally. I see no reason why anyone would want to change it except for maybe going back to they way they were before 2013 but that would be a backwards step now.

Del2005 · 09-08-2020 3:00pm

We could get rid of the 3rd digit in the year. It's a stupid attempt to spread car sales evenly over the year, all it's done has made the moved sales to July/Aug that would have been done in Mar/Apr.

YellowBucket · 09-08-2020 3:03pm

If you’d a reg like:

201-KY-X1

Wouldn’t they be a lot easier ?!

If you wanted to spread them over the year just make the first letter of the sequence number a month.

20-D-AXXX = jan
20-D-BXXX = feb
20-D-LXXX = dec

AMKC · 09-08-2020 3:06pm

YellowBucket wrote: »

But in the D area the sequences are getting stupidly long.

There’s nothing more complicated about just using alphanumeric string as the sequence . Still has all the structure of the existing system just far less characters to print on a plate.

If anything it would be even simpler than it is now as you’d have even fewer characters and you’d still fully understand the code. It’s just more compact.

They are hardly that long especially this year with sales down big time. Maybe if the numbers added up each year then ok but they start at the beginning each year so I do not see your point. No one complained about it in the early 00s when car sales were much bigger. Are you not able to memorize a 6 digit number is that it? I have no problem memorizing 6 or 9 digit numbers and have several I know includinging phone numbers and other numbers. Never had a problem.

Psychedelic Hedgehog · 09-08-2020 3:07pm

AMKC wrote: »

Are you not able to memorize a 6 digit number is that it? I have no problem memorizing 6 or 9 digit numbers and have several I know includinging phone numbers and other numbers. Never had a problem.

Could you do it by glancing at a car for a second or two, for example after a hit and run? I'm betting not, which is where the UK system is superior.

YellowBucket · 09-08-2020 3:09pm

That’s why it would be easier.

If you encounter a car you’ll remember the year and the county and if the sequence number were very short you might have more hope of recalling 2 or 4 chars than a 5 or 6 digit number.

You could end up with something like

20-D-BCX

Instead of 20-D-98373

3 alphanumeric chars gives you 46656 combinations, you’d have a few less as you’d have to ditch 1 and 0 or i & o and remove rude words.

Basically with a half year split and 3 chars you could probably cover the entire Dublin area.

It would retain all of the advantage and structure of the existing system, just with much more memorable and easy to display plates.

bazz26 · 09-08-2020 3:35pm

Just leave it as it is, they have dicked around with enough in recent times.

Dr. Steve Brule · 09-08-2020 4:29pm

Why would you want to complicate the most straightforward and clear system in the world?

punisher5112 · 09-08-2020 5:14pm

Would love to be able to personalize though.....

hognef · 09-08-2020 5:15pm

Dr. Steve Brule wrote: »

Why would you want to complicate the most straightforward and clear system in the world?

It might be straightforward and clear, but it probably carries the least amount of information per character (has the lowest entropy) of all current systems.

3 characters to indicate the time of registration, one of which uses only two of a possible 10 (or more, if we include letters) values? If we're going to use a full character to indicate time of year, why not make it more granular than one value per six months? Alternatively, why do we even need the registration time to appear on the plate at all? Most systems don't explicitly show even the year (e.g. Denmark, Norway, The Netherlands), and many have no correlation with registration time at all (e.g. Sweden).

A variable-length one or two characters to indicate location, when one character is perfectly sufficient to cover all available options (and more)? Ireland is a small country, do we really need to indicate county? Several other systems, even in similarly-populated-sized or larger countries don't do this (e.g. Norway, Sweden, Netherlands - Norway used to, but now anybody can pick any valid value for the "location" section).

And variable-length sequence numbers? How can you be sure you're remembering the full sequence, when there's no way to know how long the sequence is? Most systems are fixed length (just like most phone systems are fixed-length, unlike here in this country).

Similarly-sized and larger countries manage perfectly well with six (Sweden, Netherlands, Finland) or seven (Norway, Denmark, UK) characters, while Ireland can use up five before we even get to the unique /sequence part).

In my opinion, Ireland's system isn't really that fantastic. To me, it seems more like a naive, not very well thought out, system. The main/only advantage that I can see is that it will never need to be changed (even when the year value comes around again after 100 years, we can keep incrementing the sequence number to avoid duplicates). This isn't necessarily true for other systems that will eventually run out of unique values.

09-08-2020 5:21pm

Reg plates at the moment are easy, and very easy to remember. In a hit and run, the year and county will register with you immediately and you're unlikely to forget them. It's generally only the third part of the number plate you need to focus on remembering.

If I get belted by 131-LH-10429 in the back, and he does a runner, the 131-LH will be almost remembered by default. It's such a simple system. It's the 10429 I'll have to keep repeating to myself until I get a pen to write them down. At most you get 5 (and rarely, maybe 6) numbers on the plate. It's not difficult to remember.

I actually, thanks to the simple system it is, can recall every reg plate of each car I've owned (and i've had 9 in 6.5 years).

I would definitely be in favour of leaving it alone.

YellowBucket · 09-08-2020 5:30pm

If you were designing phone numbers from scratch, as we did with the mobile networks, you'd have a standard format. You could consider the Irish mobile networks' numbering closed and standard length.

The landline network came from a mishmash of technology going back to the earliest dial services in the 1920s and the old trunk network in the 1950s and just evolved form there through decades of electromechanical switching and then eventually went digital in the early 1980s. However, that's where the complicated structured numbering came from. The old network had very little ability to analyse numbers, so all the routing logic is built into the number itself and the system was hardwired to process that, routing it step-by-step.

That's repeated right across Europe though - plenty of phone networks have variable numbers. I mean Germany is the most extreme example, whereas France and Denmark and a few places moved to fixed length numbers.

In an Irish context, it would make no sense to do that as there's no advantage and the landline network is dying out anyway at this stage.

However, with number plates on cars I would have thought the most important thing is ease of memory in the event of someone crashing or having an encounter where they need to identify a car.

There's really no reason why we've such a convoluted system.

Eric Cartman · 09-08-2020 6:28pm

we should absolutely cull the year from the plate, it puts an artificial value on the car based on a plastic plate

YellowBucket · 09-08-2020 8:26pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

we should absolutely cull the year from the plate, it puts an artificial value on the car based on a plastic plate

Which is why it will never happen!

TrailerBob · 09-08-2020 10:20pm

SIMI would never let that happen, it's the whole premise of driving car sales here.. 'buy new for 132' was where it started, and it continues to get more of a push. Add to that the average car buyer here is a sheep and swallows the SIMI crap and wants to keep up in the years on the plate.

I recently bought, and while I wanted to look at models made after a certain point as the facelift came in on that model then, I bought completely on condition and not on the plate, (passed up on a couple of 162's to buy a 161) but I feel I'm in a minority on that.....

.... See, I even called them 161 and 162... Dammit....

punisher5112 · 09-08-2020 10:50pm

When a car turns 30 you should be allowed fit the black and silver plates.... Absolutely love them on a classic and they really look cool on the army gear...

hoodie6029 · 09-08-2020 11:39pm

30 million vehicles in the UK and they get by with 7 characters.

Get rid of the county off the reg. It's a throw back to when your tax was paid to the county council area you lived in (and it was used to maintain the roads). That hasn't been the case since about 1979.

Also, where did the requirement to have the county in Irish on the plate come from? The most pointless bit of information on the plate IMO. 'MH? I don't understand that. Oh 'An Mhí', that was so helpful in clearing my confusion.'

10-08-2020 9:54am

hoodie6029 wrote: »

Also, where did the requirement to have gone county in Irish on the plate come from? The most pointless bit of information on the plate IMO. 'MH? I don't understand that. Oh 'An Mhí', that was so helpful in clearing my confusion.'

It's not An Mhí, it's Meath. Same as Kerry or Kildare or Sligo

Del2005 · 10-08-2020 10:13am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

we should absolutely cull the year from the plate, it puts an artificial value on the car based on a plastic plate

If someone is stupid enough to only value the year number on the registration plate then I'm happy with that as it means that I can get a 2nd hand car cheaper. Look at the price of similar 2nd hand cars in Ireland vs France and tell me that you want to pay French prices for 2nd hand cars.

zilog_jones · 10-08-2020 11:12am

They're too long, and having the year advertised on your car benefits no one but car dealers.

I'd prefer something like the pre-87 system. New Zealand still does something like that, and they have a similar amount of cars on the road to us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_New_Zealand

markfinn · 10-08-2020 11:27am

YellowBucket wrote: »

But in the D area the sequences are getting stupidly long.

Nah, way simpler solution is just to put a(nother) massive tax (sorry, "registration fee") on new vehicle purchases.
No reason any city/county should need more than 9,999 new vehicles per half year really.

And if that doesn't fix it, then switch out the -D- for -D01-, -D02- etc.

punisher5112 · 10-08-2020 1:45pm

This is getting way to difficult.... No wonder boards is showing 503 error.....

blackbox · 10-08-2020 1:48pm

For me, the current system is the most easy to memorize that I have come across.

hoodie6029 · 10-08-2020 4:08pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's not An Mhí, it's Meath. Same as Kerry or Kildare or Sligo

You missed my point. Maybe take another look at a reg plate and get back to me.

biko · 10-08-2020 4:12pm

From previous threads on the plate county and years it is pretty clear this is important to more people than just car dealers.
A randomised system would remove a lot of snobbishness but the car industry won't let it happen.
Particularly as there isn't good reason to change the current system, it works just fine.

Lurching · 10-08-2020 4:13pm

I really hate the 201 / 202 thing. I think it over complicated things.

In saying that, changing to letters instead of numbers would declutter the plates a lot.
I'm sure my maths will be scrutinized, but as far as I can make out:

3 numbers goes up to 999, whereas 3 letters would give you 17,576 combinations.
and
4 numbers goes up to 9,999, whereas 4 letters would give you 456,976 combinations.

punisher5112 · 10-08-2020 4:21pm

Lurching wrote: »

I really hate the 201 / 202 thing. I think it over complicated things.

In saying that, changing to letters instead of numbers would declutter the plates a lot.
I'm sure my maths will be scrutinized, but as far as I can make out:

3 numbers goes up to 999, whereas 3 letters would give you 17,576 combinations.
and
4 numbers goes up to 9,999, whereas 4 letters would give you 456,976 combinations.

Well it wasn't well taught out as it messed with the green garage plates and these had to be changed after they were found to be exactly the se but had previously been different....

YellowBucket · 10-08-2020 4:52pm

I wouldn't really consider changing the sequence number to alphanumeric as 'changing the system'. It's just making it easy to deal with and remember by shortening the codes.

The system would be exactly the same, the plates would just be shorter.

Shorten Irish number plates with alphanumeric sequence?

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