Researching my Fenian Land League Great Grandfather PJ Gordon

R0C · 01-04-2011 12:33pm #1

I've posted here in the past about my WWI family members and received wonderful help that I never would've gained researching alone. Now I'm back again with a different family member.

My Great Grandfather's name was PJ Gordon. He was a Fenian and very involved with the Land League alongside Davitt and Parnell.

He can be found under the names: Gordan. Gordon. Patrick Joseph. Patt J. Jordon. Jordan.

He lived at The Square, Claremorris, County Mayo.

He was probably born around the 1840s though I can't be sure exactly when.

He was a bootmaker and operated a very successful shoemaking business at The Square where he employed about a dozen people.

The information I have gained on him comes from many, many articles from the latter half of the 1800s, and printed sources about the Land League and/or Davitt and Parnell.

He is described as a former Papal Soldier. I know nothing else about this and have been unable to source anything. If anyone knows where I could source more info on this, I'd appreciate it!

I do not know where he originally came from, who his parents/family were, when he was born, or when exactly he died. This is what I am trying to find out.

I have put many hours in along with help from the Church and other sources, but no luck finding these details.

There are mentions in articles of him coming from Tuam, Co. Galway, to Claremorris to open his shoe business but nothing to specifically say he was born in Tuam.

He married Kate Martyn/Martin on 9 Feb 1863 at Claremorris Church. Kate is described as being of "fine Galway stock". She was very involved in the Land League alongside her husband. I believe Kate was born in 1846 though this may be incorrect. She is listed in the censuses. The only other info I have on her is that her father was a Thomas Martyn from Galway. Thomas was also involved with the Land League.

Kate made the famous Land League 'Land for the People' banner which is on display at Kilmainham Prison museum. Kate died on the 28th Apr 1916.

PJ and Kate's daughter Delia Gordon was the first cure at Knock. They also had 9 other children.

PJ's involvment in the Land League gained him prison sentences at the following: Kilmainham. Portlaoise. Tullamore. Galway. Castlebar. Mountjoy. I have newspaper articles referencing 7 prison stays, though there were likely others I'm not aware of. He was mostly arrested under the Coercion Act, and for infamously threatening Landlord Walter Bourke and Hubert Davis' lives.

PJ had a brother named John M Gordon who was a Police Officer in New Jersey, USA.

PJ died in the second quarter of 1899, according to an article printed years later. He was partially paralysed on one side of his body for a number of years before death 'due to his hard life'. In 1899, he slipped and fell upon an icy street in Claremorris and was taken unconscious to the Claremorris Workhouse Infirmary where he died. Are there likely to be any records for deaths at the workhouse?
The second quarter of the year sounds late to have icy streets so this date may not be correct.

After much research I have been unable to locate any obituaries for PJ. Claremorris Church does not have death records before 1919 so there are neither records for PJ nor Kate. The article states that he is buried at the family plot at Ballinasmall Graveyard near Claremorris. Unfortunately the grave is not marked and I am unlikely to ever be able to locate it.

I am trying to find an exact date of death. I am hoping that an obituary may list his siblings/parents/family so I can take my family tree further along. If I knew where to look, I could start trying to locate PJ's baptism/birth info. There doesn't seem to be any matches at Claremorris Church.

I know the names/dates of all of the children that Kate and PJ had, but don't think they're necessary here.

Apart from finding his birthplace and parents' names, I'm also trying to source a mugshot/photo/newspaper sketch/courtroom drawing of PJ. I have put many hours into this but no luck so far. I am unable to visit the National Archive in Dublin.

I have many family photos of the Gordon family but they are not named so I cannot prove which may be PJ without finding a named source elsewhere.

I'm told it is likely that there is a mugshot somewhere, he was imprisoned when mugshots were being taken, but whether any have survived is unknown.

Can anyone point me in a direction where I may be able to gain further info in relation to a picture source?
I have been in touch with every museum I could think of with no luck so far.

Any tidbits of information here would be of huge help to me, however minor they may seem. While I have found many articles which mention my infamous Great Grandfather, I have not seen them all so if anyone knows of other articles mentioning him, please feel free to point me in their direction.

pinkypinky · 01-04-2011 3:51pm

Hi ROC,

(rolls up sleeves)

This looks like a good match for the death:
Name: Patrick Joseph Gordon
Registration District: Claremorris
Event Type: DEATHS
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1899
Estimated Birth Year: 1841
Age (at Death): 58
Volume Number: 4
Page Number: 105
Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958

What does the church record of his marriage say about his father?

PJ Gordon is listed at The Square, Claremorris in Slaters 1870, 1881 (as shoemaker) and 1894 as a shopkeeper.

What are their children's names? Particularly the boys as one is likely to be named for his paternal grandfather - you can search Griffiths for likely suspects. I can a quick look at Tuam: there's 3 Gordons (Lawrence, John, Maria).

PP

pinkypinky · 01-04-2011 4:00pm

Now the prison thing: I know you said you can't get to the National Archives but you really have to try. They have prison records on open shelves and you already know which prisons he was in so you could probably find mentions of him, which might include visits of relations. They also have some photos of inmates, though I understand it's patchy.

R0C · 01-04-2011 4:05pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Hi ROC,

(rolls up sleeves)

This looks like a good match for the death:
Name: Patrick Joseph Gordon
Registration District: Claremorris
Event Type: DEATHS
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1899
Estimated Birth Year: 1841
Age (at Death): 58
Volume Number: 4
Page Number: 105
Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958

What does the church record of his marriage say about his father?

PJ Gordon is listed at The Square, Claremorris in Slaters 1870, 1881 (as shoemaker) and 1894 as a shopkeeper.

What are their children's names? Particularly the boys as one is likely to be named for his paternal grandfather - you can search Griffiths for likely suspects. I can a quick look at Tuam: there's 3 Gordons (Lawrence, John, Maria).

PP

I knew it'd be worth my while posting here! That's certainly him.

The Church record for the marriage does not list any parents for either him or his wife Kate unfortunately.

His brother John M. Gordon is documented in an 1891 newspaper article as a member of the New Jersey Police Force. I've tried to find any US records for him where he may name his parents but no luck finding him so far.

PJ may have a family member called Nancy; he was a witness to a wedding of a Nancy Gordon to Patt Flaherty at Claremorris, 12 Jun 1867, so I assume she's some relation.

PJ and Kate's kids are as follows:

Anna Maria Gordon (birth 1863 to unknown)
Bridget Gordon (birth 06 Aug 1867)
Delia Gordon (1867 to 1930)
Joesph Gordon (1870 to unknown)
Sara Mary (or Sara Maria) Gordon (1875 to unknown)
Thomas M Gordon (1876 to unknown)
Michael Joesph Gordon (1878 to 1957)
Winifred (Cissy) Gordon (1881 to 1896)
Elizabeth Gordon (1886 to unknown)
Mary Honora Gordon (unknown )

I have noticed the Maria name popping up, and that has been continued into the current generation but there's no-one alive to ask where it started.

Thank you for taking the time to look this up for me!

pinkypinky · 01-04-2011 4:06pm

Papal Soldier: from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myles_Keogh

By 1860, a twenty year old Myles Keogh had volunteered, along with over one thousand of his countrymen, to rally to the defence of Pope Pius IX following a call to arms by the Catholic clergy in Ireland. By August 1860, Keogh was appointed second lieutenant of his unit in the Battalion of St. Patrick, Papal Army under the command of General Christophe Léon Louis Juchault de Lamoricière. He was posted at Ancona, a central port city of Italy. The Papal forces were defeated in September in the Battle of Castelfidardo, and Ancona was surrounded. The soldiers, although having admirable defence, were forced to surrender and Keogh was imprisoned at Genoa.

This would fit timeframe wise and the article mentions lots of Irish men doing it.

R0C · 01-04-2011 4:09pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Now the prison thing: I know you said you can't get to the National Archives but you really have to try. They have prison records on open shelves and you already know which prisons he was in so you could probably find mentions of him, which might include visits of relations. They also have some photos of inmates, though I understand it's patchy.

I hadn't realised they had records that were easily accessible. If that's the case, I'll just have to take a day's holidays some time and go up there. I live in the West and work full-time so unless I take a day off, it's impossible to get to the Archives during their opening hours.

I know which prisons he was in and the dates he was put there, so that may be of help. I've been given very varied information in regard to the mugshots, from being told I would definitely be able to get one or maybe more, to different opinions on where the mugshots are actually housed and how many remain in existence, so I don't hold too much hope for that one.

R0C · 01-04-2011 4:14pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Papal Soldier: from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myles_Keogh

By 1860, a twenty year old Myles Keogh had volunteered, along with over one thousand of his countrymen, to rally to the defence of Pope Pius IX following a call to arms by the Catholic clergy in Ireland. By August 1860, Keogh was appointed second lieutenant of his unit in the Battalion of St. Patrick, Papal Army under the command of General Christophe Léon Louis Juchault de Lamoricière. He was posted at Ancona, a central port city of Italy. The Papal forces were defeated in September in the Battle of Castelfidardo, and Ancona was surrounded. The soldiers, although having admirable defence, were forced to surrender and Keogh was imprisoned at Genoa.

This would fit timeframe wise and the article mentions lots of Irish men doing it.

Thanks for that!

Wonder if there are any records out there of the names of those who took part in this?

pinkypinky · 01-04-2011 4:34pm

I've never heard of it before - I just googled Papal Soldiers.

Re: the Archives - they are a complete pain to get to, even if you live in Dublin, it still involves time off work. I have a distant great-uncle who was a prison officer and found lots of mentions of him and was able to track him through different prison appointments...the books are big registers and have sections for staff/prisoners/general running info, etc.

So going back to the names: I'd hazard a guess at Joseph and Maria being his parents' names. The Maria in Griffiths was recorded in Tuam on 10/12/1855 @ BOHERNAGREANA (OR SUN STREET) (SOUTH WEST END) - Townparks (5th Division)...I don't know what that means. So I suggest your next port of call is to check out churches in Tuam, if you haven't already. http://galwayeast.rootsireland.ie/ is a pay site but you can manipulate the indexes to cut down on the number of incorrect records you order.

R0C · 01-04-2011 4:41pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

I've never heard of it before - I just googled Papal Soldiers.

Re: the Archives - they are a complete pain to get to, even if you live in Dublin, it still involves time off work. I have a distant great-uncle who was a prison officer and found lots of mentions of him and was able to track him through different prison appointments...the books are big registers and have sections for staff/prisoners/general running info, etc.

So going back to the names: I'd hazard a guess at Joseph and Maria being his parents' names. The Maria in Griffiths was recorded in Tuam on 10/12/1855 @ BOHERNAGREANA (OR SUN STREET) (SOUTH WEST END) - Townparks (5th Division)...I don't know what that means. So I suggest your next port of call is to check out churches in Tuam, if you haven't already. http://galwayeast.rootsireland.ie/ is a pay site but you can manipulate the indexes to cut down on the number of incorrect records you order.

I'll definitely have to put a day aside for the archives then!

I found that Maria in Griffiths before and noted that she was paying small rent, now PJ apparently owned his Claremorris property (a huge building) and also owned some land adjacent to the Claremorris Workhouse. PJ must have come to Claremorris with a certain amount of wealth, and he seems to have married into wealth (I'm not sure which came first), but if that Maria is his mother, her property wouldn't seem very significant. All speculation of course.

I'm still not fully convinced he was born in Tuam though. I've looked at the rootsireland site before and would like to try and narrow the options down further to reduce the number of incorrect records.

I'm still concerned that he wasn't from Tuam at all, and had simply worked there prior to Claremorris.

R0C · 04-04-2011 4:11pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Re: the Archives - they are a complete pain to get to, even if you live in Dublin, it still involves time off work. I have a distant great-uncle who was a prison officer and found lots of mentions of him and was able to track him through different prison appointments...the books are big registers and have sections for staff/prisoners/general running info, etc.

As regards prison records, does the Archive have a searchable database so I can narrow down my search to particular records?

Is most of the stuff you came across handwritten or printed?

I've had great difficulty reading handwritten records from the 1800s in the past, and I'd have to fit as much as possible into one day at the archives which would amount to only a few hours by the time I travelled up there from the West, so I'd need to be as prepared as possible to get the most out of my day.

pinkypinky · 04-04-2011 6:57pm

No, it's all in handwritten ledgers but the handwriting is very neat.

R0C · 04-04-2011 7:16pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

No, it's all in handwritten ledgers but the handwriting is very neat.

Thanks pinkypinky.

sargito · 18-08-2011 1:34am

ONly came across this thread by accident , My great grand father was pat charles the man who carried the other side of the flag to Irishtown on with PJ. the story as we knew it was that PJ's wife and my grandmother made the flag out of their sheets.

My uncle has an 1851 census return copy for Pat Charles that had been requested by one of the Mc Garry's of Claremorris. As far as i know Pj's daughter married a mcgarry, as the flag was handed over to the state by my grandmother and a member of the McGarry family who was PJ's relation. I have some clippings somewhere concerning the Gordons/McGarry's and the Irishtown march.

That said, as far as I know , the only remaining descendants of the Gordons in Claremorris would be Mc Garrys.

Hope this helps

R0C · 18-08-2011 8:14am

Hi there,

That's actually the line of the family I'm from, so you're correct, PJ's daughter did marry a McGarry.

I hadn't realised anyone else in the family had done any research into this so I'm surprised/intrigued about that.

I'll send you a PM. Thanks.

KDO21 · 17-08-2012 9:38pm

Dear ROC,

I realise that it has been some years since you posted this request, but I have an image of your great grandfather P. J. Gordon if you are still interested.

Best wishes

Researching my Fenian Land League Great Grandfather PJ Gordon

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