Non resident taking our parking spaces

kingtut · 13-07-2020 7:00pm #1

I live in what is meant to be a gated community (although the gate has been broken and remains wide open for years) and over the last few mon ths an employee of the salon around the corner has been parking there.

I have left multiple notes indicating that it is residents parking only and even put a letter through the door of the business she works in but she continues to park there.

Is it possible for me to get her car clamped / removed ?

Space is at a premium so it's frustrating finding she has taken a space and I have to park on the street!!

the_syco · 13-07-2020 7:03pm

Are there any clamping signs inside the gated community?

kingtut · 13-07-2020 7:05pm

the_syco wrote: »

Are there any clamping signs inside the gated community?

There are at the front but none at the back where she parks.

Baby01032012 · 13-07-2020 7:09pm

If it’s a gated community is there a management company in place, who is responsible for maintaining the gate etc. If there is an OMC there may be an agent or someone you can talk to about getting the gate fixed and controlling parking.

Del2005 · 13-07-2020 7:21pm

kingtut wrote: »

I live in what is meant to be a gated community (although the gate has been broken and remains wide open for years) and over the last few mon ths an employee of the salon around the corner has been parking there.

I have left multiple notes indicating that it is residents parking only and even put a letter through the door of the business she works in but she continues to park there.

Is it possible for me to get her car clamped / removed ?

Space is at a premium so it's frustrating finding she has taken a space and I have to park on the street!!

Are you an owner or renting? Because your path to an attempted resolution are different. If you are an owner you can propose clamping at the next AGM/EGM and hope enough people agree. If you are renting you can only escalate to your landlord and they have to chase up the Management company

If you have a problem and the correct signs are up then the OMC can organise clamping but how do you prove that a car doesn't have a right to park if they've no list of residents vehicles or haven't issued parking permits to residents. If they don't have a process it'll be difficult as it would need to be approved at an AGM/EGM and then all residents would need to register their cars so that illegal parking can be controlled and if they clamp a resident if they change cars then there will be trouble. Getting a vehicle towed from private property is time consuming.

kingtut · 13-07-2020 7:37pm

Baby01032012 wrote: »

If it’s a gated community is there a management company in place, who is responsible for maintaining the gate etc. If there is an OMC there may be an agent or someone you can talk to about getting the gate fixed and controlling parking.

There is no management company as all the properties are owned by different people. The agency I am with deals with several of the properties. I have complained continuously for the last 4 years and nothing is done. Even contacted the security company who said that they need to be contacted by the agency.

Del2005 wrote: »

Are you an owner or renting? Because your path to an attempted resolution are different. If you are an owner you can propose clamping at the next AGM/EGM and hope enough people agree. If you are renting you can only escalate to your landlord and they have to chase up the Management company

If you have a problem and the correct signs are up then the OMC can organise clamping but how do you prove that a car doesn't have a right to park if they've no list of residents vehicles or haven't issued parking permits to residents. If they don't have a process it'll be difficult as it would need to be approved at an AGM/EGM and then all residents would need to register their cars so that illegal parking can be controlled and if they clamp a resident if they change cars then there will be trouble. Getting a vehicle towed from private property is time consuming.

I'm renting and there is no meeting that I can attend that I am aware of. Different owners for different properties here.

I don't see other residents getting clamped as we only have an issue with one individual and wouldn't be looking for a regular clamper to be patrolling the area.

endacl · 13-07-2020 7:40pm

I certainly wouldn’t advocate using a matchstick to open the valves on all four tyres and letting the air out without damaging the tyres even slightly. I just said it, because if that happened to me once or twice I’d certainly park somewhere else where that kind of thing didn’t happen.

NeVeR · 13-07-2020 7:40pm

Is it your spot ? Was a parking space included in the rental agreement ?

NeVeR · 13-07-2020 7:41pm

endacl wrote: »

I certainly wouldn’t advocate using a matchstick to open the valves on all four tyres and letting the air out without damaging the tyres even slightly. I just said it, because if that happened to me once or twice I’d certainly park somewhere else where that kind of thing didn’t happen.

I was about to suggest something a little .... more .... illegal....

but this sounds like a much better idea

13-07-2020 7:42pm

NeVeR wrote: »

Is it your spot ? Was a parking space included in the rental agreement ?

There’s certainly no parking space includes for this non resident salon employee in the rental agreement, I could happily guarantee that.

13-07-2020 7:44pm

The thing is to make them not want to park there. I wouldn’t know how that could be done of course.

Sam Quentin · 13-07-2020 7:45pm

Is she f#@£;&n thick or something!?

ronivek · 13-07-2020 8:01pm

Have you tried going into the hairdressers and speaking directly to the owner/manager? Not sure I'd be too happy as an owner of a small business if one of my employee's was causing issues with a local. That assumes the owner of the car isn't also the owner of the hairdressers...

The only other thing which springs to mind is placing traffic cones in the spot; bonus points if there's a sign warning that clamping is in operation and parking is for residents only. The risk there is that you could end up annoying some of your neighbours; and indeed it isn't guaranteed to work.

You mentioned there's no management company? So who owns the private road, parking spaces, the gate, and all the other public areas in the complex?

coylemj · 13-07-2020 8:13pm

kingtut wrote: »

There is no management company as all the properties are owned by different people.

That is some seriously flawed logic. If the units were in common ownership, that owner would manage the complex. The whole point of having a management company is because the properties are owned by different people.

Otherwise, as appears to be the case where you live, nobody is in charge.

endacl · 13-07-2020 8:32pm

kingtut wrote: »

There are at the front but none at the back where she parks.

What’s the layout of the car park like? If you pulled up in front of her and blocked her in for a few days would you be inconveniencing anybody else?

We had an issue a few years ago. We’ve a crèche next door and one parent used to pull into our driveway because ‘sure there’s nowhere else to park and it’s only for s minute what’s the problem?’. Nowhere else within a minutes walk of course. The problem went away when I pulled in behind her st slightly before 9am and left her car blocked there for the rest of the day. That was after asking nicely. You appear to be very much past the asking nicely stage. If you can’t take ‘her’ parking space away you’ll just have to figure s way of taking away the point of parking there. Make the convenience inconvenient.

Del2005 · 13-07-2020 8:44pm

kingtut wrote: »

There is no management company as all the properties are owned by different people. The agency I am with deals with several of the properties. I have complained continuously for the last 4 years and nothing is done. Even contacted the security company who said that they need to be contacted by the agency.
I'm renting and there is no meeting that I can attend that I am aware of. Different owners for different properties here.

There will be a management company but as you are a tenant they have no dealings with you so you won't be aware they exist.

kingtut wrote: »

I don't see other residents getting clamped as we only have an issue with one individual and wouldn't be looking for a regular clamper to be patrolling the area.

A company won't clamp on a once off basis, they will only do it if they get a contract from the management company and that will only come about if enough owners vote it in. To bring in clamping they'd need a list of resident's vehicles or give out permits. So even if it was brought in you're a few months from a resolution.

13-07-2020 8:55pm

We got these class big stickers in work for visitors to the units next door that were parking in our spaces. They’re an absolute nightmare to get off, just shred into pieces as you peel them.

Baby01032012 · 13-07-2020 9:22pm

As Del2005 has said you are confusing agent managing apartments with the owners management company. As a tenant all you can do is take it up with your landlord. Also confirm to us if space is listed in your letting agreement. Talk to the owner of the salon as was suggested.

jrosen · 13-07-2020 9:31pm

If there are on street parking spots I would expect there to be a management company. Its usually how things are done. If this space is allocated to your home and is yours to use then you should go through your landlord to try get a resolve that way.

I used to live somewhere and we had similar issues. Coming home at night to my car space gone, cars I didnt recognize but there was one regular offender. I did as was mentioned above and blocked the car in one day I came home from work early. I closed the blinds and didnt answer my door for the night. Last time said person parked there.

killbillvol2 · 13-07-2020 9:40pm

Another vote for blocking them in. Had a similar issue and parked to completely block them in after asking nicely a few times. Answered the door drinking a beer and said I couldn't move my car as I'd been drinking. The ****er had the nerve to suggest that he'd move my car for me!

I moved my car the following night and they never parked there again.

Calahonda52 · 13-07-2020 9:46pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_1OVYsLqMU

kingtut · 14-07-2020 12:34pm

NeVeR wrote: »

Is it your spot ? Was a parking space included in the rental agreement ?

Parking spaces are not assigned (they said they would be assigning them back in October 2016 but I am still waiting). Rental agreement says "together with the designated car space (if any) numbered:"

ronivek wrote: »

Have you tried going into the hairdressers and speaking directly to the owner/manager? Not sure I'd be too happy as an owner of a small business if one of my employee's was causing issues with a local. That assumes the owner of the car isn't also the owner of the hairdressers...

The only other thing which springs to mind is placing traffic cones in the spot; bonus points if there's a sign warning that clamping is in operation and parking is for residents only. The risk there is that you could end up annoying some of your neighbours; and indeed it isn't guaranteed to work.

You mentioned there's no management company? So who owns the private road, parking spaces, the gate, and all the other public areas in the complex?

The owner of the salon is not the person taking the space and they don't always take the same space, they basically take whatever space is free. The salon owner (seperate issue) also does some crazy stuff like parking right at the exit to the complex on a double yellow line which means that you have to get out of the car and check the road is clear before you move out (one way road)

I don't believe there is a management company as the agency I am with owns 3 properties, another 2 are privately owned, 2 are council owned and the rest are private rentals.

coylemj wrote: »

That is some seriously flawed logic. If the units were in common ownership, that owner would manage the complex. The whole point of having a management company is because the properties are owned by different people.

Otherwise, as appears to be the case where you live, nobody is in charge.

That is correct there is no common owner so there isn't one overall management company.

endacl wrote: »

What’s the layout of the car park like? If you pulled up in front of her and blocked her in for a few days would you be inconveniencing anybody else?

The only way of blocking her in would be to block in two cars (so I'd have to know the owner of the second car which I probably already do as you get to know which cars belong to residents)

Del2005 wrote: »

There will be a management company but as you are a tenant they have no dealings with you so you won't be aware they exist.

There is no management company.

Baby01032012 wrote: »

As Del2005 has said you are confusing agent managing apartments with the owners management company. As a tenant all you can do is take it up with your landlord. Also confirm to us if space is listed in your letting agreement. Talk to the owner of the salon as was suggested.

I don't believe I am confused. Properties are not owned/managed by 1 individual person/company so I'm not sure how there would be a central management company?

Space is not designated to us but she parks in whatever space is free. The frustration is that we come home and there are no spaces free (generally residents park in whatever space they like and we have never had an issue with this)

I'll definitely talk to the owner in person seeing as they ignored my letter.

jrosen wrote: »

If there are on street parking spots I would expect there to be a management company. Its usually how things are done. If this space is allocated to your home and is yours to use then you should go through your landlord to try get a resolve that way.

On street parking is owned by the city council, completely separate to where we live. It is a gated community off of a main road.

hullaballoo · 14-07-2020 12:41pm

The management company issue that people are being so obtuse about is that all multi-unit residential developments are required as a matter of law to have a management company.

However, that is not the same as saying all multi-unit residential developments actually have a management company.

Leaving aside the criminal acts that are being propounded here and almost all the suggested solutions are such, you have a number of options but all of them involve talking to the salon owner and or staff member in question directly to ask them to stop. After that you can consider what options you might have to try and compel them to stop.

Personally, I would probably opt to persuade them by means to stop parking there rather than going full on lawyer. But if it came to it, and it was enough of a nuisance, I would consider talking to a solicitor.

Wanderer19 · 14-07-2020 12:48pm

Who cuts the grass, clears up the rubbish, does the cleaning of public areas etc - this is the role of a management company. They are the ones your landlord needs to approach to get designated parking spots, gates fixed etc. The landlord (and every other owner in the complex) should be paying a monthly/annual fee to a management company to keep the complex looking well and resolve any problems.

kingtut · 14-07-2020 1:18pm

Wanderer19 wrote: »

Who cuts the grass, clears up the rubbish, does the cleaning of public areas etc - this is the role of a management company. They are the ones your landlord needs to approach to get designated parking spots, gates fixed etc. The landlord (and every other owner in the complex) should be paying a monthly/annual fee to a management company to keep the complex looking well and resolve any problems.

There is no grass (all concrete) and noone clears up the rubbish or tidies up the place. If there is a management company I have never seen anyone from it and there is no signs anywhere indicating that there is one.

I've lived here for 7 years and have never seen anyone from a management company and have never received any letters from one. Also asked a few neighbours and they are not aware of any management company that is responsible for the area.

Edit to add - I rent through an agency and have 0 contact with the landlord.

Mrs OBumble · 14-07-2020 1:41pm

kingtut wrote: »

There is no grass (all concrete) and noone clears up the rubbish or tidies up the place. If there is a management company I have never seen anyone from it and there is no signs anywhere indicating that there is one.

I've lived here for 7 years and have never seen anyone from a management company and have never received any letters from one. Also asked a few neighbours and they are not aware of any management company that is responsible for the area.

Edit to add - I rent through an agency and have 0 contact with the landlord.

You are a tenant, the management company won't talk to you.

A management company is legally required to exist for any multi owner complex. They are the only ones who can do anything official in this situation.

Lenar3556 · 14-07-2020 1:54pm

kingtut wrote: »

There is no grass (all concrete) and noone clears up the rubbish or tidies up the place. If there is a management company I have never seen anyone from it and there is no signs anywhere indicating that there is one.

I've lived here for 7 years and have never seen anyone from a management company and have never received any letters from one. Also asked a few neighbours and they are not aware of any management company that is responsible for the area.

Edit to add - I rent through an agency and have 0 contact with the landlord.

You will probably find there is an owners managment company in existence, this would tend to be a company limited by guarantee which would own and be responsible for the common areas, and the like of the gate you mentioned and for providing public liability / block insurance for example. It would be a significant risk to the property owners if this company was not operating as an OMC. They may not be undertaking much maintenance work, but that is not to say the entity does not exist. It is this company who have responsibility for regulating access / parking. But as a tenant you wouldn’t really have recourse to them. If I were you I would pursue with your landlord/their agent in the first instance and regarding this particular lady - start to approach in person and ask her to move the car. Most people don’t like repeated confrontation and she is lightly to find somewhere else.

AndrewJRenko · 14-07-2020 2:03pm

kingtut wrote: »

There is no grass (all concrete) and noone clears up the rubbish or tidies up the place. If there is a management company I have never seen anyone from it and there is no signs anywhere indicating that there is one.

I've lived here for 7 years and have never seen anyone from a management company and have never received any letters from one. Also asked a few neighbours and they are not aware of any management company that is responsible for the area.

Edit to add - I rent through an agency and have 0 contact with the landlord.

If there is no management company, then the on-street parking is public space available to anyone, so you need to back off.

kingtut · 14-07-2020 2:59pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If there is no management company, then the on-street parking is public space available to anyone, so you need to back off.

Huh? I have no issue with the on street parking. My issue is with a non resident parking in residents parking spaces (the spaces that are behind a gate that is always open as they won't fix it)

14-07-2020 3:33pm

Follow her home. Then every night park in HER spot before she gets there.

Caranica · 14-07-2020 3:46pm

kingtut wrote: »

Huh? I have no issue with the on street parking. My issue is with a non resident parking in residents parking spaces (the spaces that are behind a gate that is always open as they won't fix it)

The they you refer to is the management company. Gates not being repaired is usually a sign of lack of funds.

As a tenant, your only recourse is to your landlord.

listermint · 14-07-2020 3:51pm

just get cones and a no parking sign on them and stick them on the spot/s done.

If she moves them go into the salon and cause a scene. The owner will not like that and talk to her quick smart im sure.

ted1 · 14-07-2020 3:52pm

OP, you are a tenant with no designated parking space. Honestly this isn’t your battle to fight.

There nothing* you can do, it’s not up to you.
*You could stalking her.

Hyzepher · 14-07-2020 5:03pm

kingtut wrote: »

Huh? I have no issue with the on street parking. My issue is with a non resident parking in residents parking spaces (the spaces that are behind a gate that is always open as they won't fix it)

Who is the "they" you are talking about. Most likely a mgt company of some description or probably an owners management committee that no one cares about or funds anymore.

If there is no "they" then your parking is public if they are undesignated

ronivek · 14-07-2020 5:13pm

kingtut wrote: »

Huh? I have no issue with the on street parking. My issue is with a non resident parking in residents parking spaces (the spaces that are behind a gate that is always open as they won't fix it)

I think the issue here is that although you're claiming the parking spaces are for resident use only; this would only hold true if these roads and parking spaces were privately owned and licensed via a management company. Since there doesn't seem to be a management company involved here; people are saying it is possible that in fact these parking spaces and roads are de facto public roads and thus you would have no real legal recourse.

Do you know any of your neighbours who actually own their apartment? If you could get their help you might have a chance at identifying the management company.

From your perspective it's your letting agent who would have your landlord's details; and if your letting agent isn't helping you to get those details your quarrel would seem to be with them for now. Are your letting agency registered with any professional bodies? Are they registered with Property Services Regulatory Authority? (http://www.npsra.ie/)

SozBbz · 14-07-2020 5:16pm

kingtut wrote: »

There is no management company as all the properties are owned by different people. The agency I am with deals with several of the properties. I have complained continuously for the last 4 years and nothing is done. Even contacted the security company who said that they need to be contacted by the agency.

I'm renting and there is no meeting that I can attend that I am aware of. Different owners for different properties here.

I don't see other residents getting clamped as we only have an issue with one individual and wouldn't be looking for a regular clamper to be patrolling the area.

There is absolutely a management company. Its a legal requirement for multi unit developments.

Your landlord by virtue of owning a property is a member of the MC. They have a vote at the AGM and they can raise issues with the board at any point. As a tenant, you don't have a place in the MC, and typically they won't engage with tenants, only owners.

Is this supposed to be your allocated space or is it one of a pool of visitor spaces?

SozBbz · 14-07-2020 5:28pm

ronivek wrote: »

I think the issue here is that although you're claiming the parking spaces are for resident use only; this would only hold true if these roads and parking spaces were privately owned and licensed via a management company. Since there doesn't seem to be a management company involved here; people are saying it is possible that in fact these parking spaces and roads are de facto public roads and thus you would have no real legal recourse.

Do you know any of your neighbours who actually own their apartment? If you could get their help you might have a chance at identifying the management company.

From your perspective it's your letting agent who would have your landlord's details; and if your letting agent isn't helping you to get those details your quarrel would seem to be with them for now. Are your letting agency registered with any professional bodies? Are they registered with Property Services Regulatory Authority? (http://www.npsra.ie/)

Nope - the fact that there are gates (albeit broken) tells me that this is a private development. I wouldnt infer that theres no OMC just because the OP as a tenant doesnt know anything about it.

There will be a MC. Whether they're any good or not, or have any funds.... thats another story.

I think what the OP means is street like spaces within the development. Not actually out on a public road.

I was on my own OMC board for 5 years. It was a well run place, private property but we didnt have (or want) electric gates - they've very expensive to put in and maintain and further, you don't always get planning for them if the entrance is off a busy road. Not being officially gated off did not change the fact that it was private property and we enforced parking as we saw fit and semi regularly dealt with parking disputes/abandoned cars etc.

I know as a director of an OMC, we never had anything to do with tenants. Its always owners input only. Now an owner can bring something forward that their tenant has complained about, but there is no scope to engage directly with tenants as they're not members of the OMC.

The only way of dealing with outsiders parking within the development will be to either fix the gates (could cost a small fortune) or enforce a permit system with clamping (a bit more expensive, and also kind of annoying as there will always be issues with the roll out of such system as legitimate people will probably end up getting clamped until they get used to the system.) The OMC would have to maintain a list of approved vehicles so its work for them on an ongoing basis.

Graham · 14-07-2020 5:38pm

Stickers - in regular and extreme adhesive variants.

https://www.pittman.ie/workplace/parking-enforcement/no-parking-stickers.html

DaveyDave · 14-07-2020 5:50pm

This is a constant issue for people, what can be done?

My new house has on street parking because the council made a terrible decision to only allow 60% of houses to have a driveway (in an area with 5 estates and more to be built). There's a small apartment block being built across from me and I expect to have issues with people taking my spaces especially as I work shifts and nights it will be empty a lot.

The apartment block down the road is already an issue. The residents park in the visitor spaces rather than the underground car park and their visitors park in the spaces belonging to the houses across the road, even the ones that have clearly been numbered by the residents since the management company haven't done it yet.

If I have any issues I'll happily block them in provided I'm not blocking the road as it's very narrow and I'll be hounding the management company.

Lenar3556 · 14-07-2020 5:56pm

I had a quick look at the particulars for the OP;
There appears to be an OMC which was in place since construction and for some 25+ years thereafter. About 15 years ago it stopped making annual returns and was eventually struck off.

It would seem clear that the gated parking area referred is part of the development, and would ordinarily be an area managed by an OMC. There is currently no registered title.

The alleged perpetrator may well be (or employed by) a commercial tenant of the same development.

ED E · 14-07-2020 5:59pm

Lenar3556 wrote: »

I had a quick look at the particulars for the OP;
There appears to be an OMC which was in place since construction and for some 25+ years thereafter. About 15 years ago it stopped making annual returns and was eventually struck off.

It would seem clear that the gated parking area referred is part of the development, and would ordinarily be an area managed by an OMC. There is currently no registered title.

The alleged perpetrator may well be (or employed by) a commercial tenant of the same development.

Predictable. As soon as I read the comment about the gates it was fairly likely this was the case.

14-07-2020 6:00pm

Graham wrote: »

Stickers - in regular and extreme adhesive variants.

https://www.pittman.ie/workplace/parking-enforcement/no-parking-stickers.html

Them’s the ones. Right above the steering wheel on the windscreen.

Guy:Incognito · 14-07-2020 6:14pm

Lenar3556 wrote: »

I had a quick look at the particulars for the OP;
There appears to be an OMC which was in place since construction and for some 25+ years thereafter. About 15 years ago it stopped making annual returns and was eventually struck off.

It would seem clear that the gated parking area referred is part of the development, and would ordinarily be an area managed by an OMC. There is currently no registered title.

The alleged perpetrator may well be (or employed by) a commercial tenant of the same development.

Not related to the OP's issue but presumably theres other things that the management company would be looking after that are severely neglected at this stage?

hullaballoo · 14-07-2020 6:34pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Not related to the OP's issue but presumably theres other things that the management company would be looking after that are severely neglected at this stage?

Yeah, the assigned parking, which is what brought us all here in the first place.

Gatling · 14-07-2020 6:39pm

Surely it's has to be more than one car if the op is only having an issue with one person parking in non assigned parking spots

Mrs OBumble · 14-07-2020 7:04pm

hullaballoo wrote: »

Yeah, the assigned parking, which is what brought us all here in the first place.

I wonder if the buildings are even insured????

Bass Reeves · 14-07-2020 7:10pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

We got these class big stickers in work for visitors to the units next door that were parking in our spaces. They’re an absolute nightmare to get off, just shred into pieces as you peel them.

They are illegal to use now as if car has an accident person placing it on s car could be libel

14-07-2020 7:13pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

They are illegal to use now as if car has an accident person placing it on s car could be libel

You put it on where they couldn’t possibly even think about driving without removing it.

ronivek · 14-07-2020 7:21pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

You put it on where they couldn’t possibly even think about driving without removing it.

I think the issue is a little more nuanced than that. What if they try to remove the sticker residue but can't get it off; and subsequently they have an accident? Would you want to be the one who placed the sticker?

I would avoid taking any action that would involve touching someone's car; whatever about putting down traffic cones or putting up a sign.

Del2005 · 14-07-2020 7:23pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

You put it on where they couldn’t possibly even think about driving without removing it.

Have you seen how people drive on frosty mornings? People drive with frozen windows, filthy windows, massive phones or tablets in the center of the screen. A sticker isn't going to stop them, I've seen some care with several of them stickers attached.

DaveyDave · 14-07-2020 8:47pm

As the driver of a car it's their responsibility to ensure it is safe to operate.

But as someone else mentioned plenty of people don't even bother to clear frost. Majority of older cars I see on the roads don't even have a working back wiper, whether it's just faulty or broken in half, it's all too common.

People like to play ignorance to "parking for residents only" or numbered parking. It's when they start to get confronted they might change their ways.

Non resident taking our parking spaces

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