Average salary at €47,000

MichaelKnee · 06-02-2020 11:27pm #1

Isn't it fair to increase the higher tax bracket above this?

antodeco · 06-02-2020 11:29pm

Why should you pay more tax if you earn more? More pay doesn't equate to you "using more tax funded services". In fact, if you earn more, you buy more, meaning you actually pay more VAT on goods than someone who earns less.

If there is a direct correlation between earning more means you are a higher burden to society (and as such should contribute more to the state) then there should be a higher tax bracket

MichaelKnee · 06-02-2020 11:31pm

antodeco wrote: »

Why should you pay more tax if you earn more? More pay doesn't equate to you "using more tax funded services". In fact, if you earn more, you buy more, meaning you actually pay more VAT on goods than someone who earns less.

If there is a direct correlation between earning more means you are a higher burden to society (and as such should contribute more to the state) then there should be a higher tax bracket

I think a single tax bracket is fair. If you earn more, you still pay more.

Pawwed Rig · 06-02-2020 11:33pm

I would back the standard rate being applicable up to this amount

v638sg7k1a92bx · 06-02-2020 11:34pm

MichaelKnee wrote: »

Isn't it fair to increase the higher tax bracket above this?

Where are getting the average salary of €47k from?

Salary Negotiator · 06-02-2020 11:35pm

It is kind of ironic that an average salary means you pay higher rate income tax.

MichaelKnee · 06-02-2020 11:41pm

Maverick Tight Octopus wrote: »

Where are getting the average salary of €47k from?

https://ie.neuvoo.com/salary/

Peregrine · 06-02-2020 11:41pm

I think we need to revisit our school curriculum and add extra emphasis on statistics. It's so easy to fall victim to statistics these days.

ToxicPaddy · 06-02-2020 11:41pm

The average salary in Dublin maybe but this couldnt be the case for areas outside of Dublin.

Link to what I think the OP is talking about here Linky

However if they wanted to raise it to €50k for the higher tax band, I wouldnt say no

William Legrande · 06-02-2020 11:42pm

You should really get a volume discount. The more you earn the lower the percentage should be. Open and transparent.

lawred2 · 06-02-2020 11:42pm

Never happening lads. Even if FG got returned, they'd just forget about this pledge like every other pledge.

Fool me once and all that.

MichaelKnee · 06-02-2020 11:44pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Never happening lads. Even if FG got returned, they'd just forget about this pledge like every other pledge.

Fool me once and all that.

I'd be inclined to agree, I think we'll get diddled no matter whos in power.

biko · 06-02-2020 11:46pm

The sauce https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-fact-check-is-the-average-income-really-47-000-1.4155272

Election 2020 fact check: Is the average income really €47,000?
Taoiseach made claim at leaders’ debate when discussing entry point for higher tax rate

The verdict:
The Taoiseach’s statement is accurate, but leaves out some information key to getting a fuller picture of earnings in the State. Therefore the verdict is the claim is true, but missing some important information.

ToxicPaddy · 06-02-2020 11:48pm

biko wrote: »

The sauce https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-fact-check-is-the-average-income-really-47-000-1.4155272

The quote from Aidan Regan is interesting, its not the average figure but the median figure that is more accurate and matters more.

MichaelKnee · 06-02-2020 11:55pm

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

The quote from Aidan Regan is interesting, its not the average figure but the median figure that is more accurate and matters more.

Regardless, the higher tax bracket kicks in at a shockingly low level.

Zebra3 · 07-02-2020 12:03am

People get hung up on tax that they pay but what's equally as important is the services that we get back.

I'd gladly pay higher personal tax to have public services on par with Scandinavian countries.

It's not all about an extra tenner in your back pocket.

MichaelKnee · 07-02-2020 12:04am

Zebra3 wrote: »

People get hung up on tax that they pay but what's equally as important is the services that we get back.

I'd gladly pay higher personal tax to have public services on par with Scandinavian countries.

It's not all about an extra tenner in your back pocket.

I'd rather keep more of my paycheck.

Leg End Reject · 07-02-2020 12:08am

Zebra3 wrote: »

People get hung up on tax that they pay but what's equally as important is the services that we get back.

I'd gladly pay higher personal tax to have public services on par with Scandinavian countries.

It's not all about an extra tenner in your back pocket.

But we don't get the services, that's the problem. Between 40% tax and all the USC bands you'd think you'd get at least 1 or 2 GP visits a years and a functioning health service so you don't rely on private health insurance.

poisonated · 07-02-2020 12:25am

I earn considerably less than that

Peregrine · 07-02-2020 12:27am

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

The quote from Aidan Regan is interesting, its not the average figure but the median figure that is more accurate and matters more.

Yes. The mean value is mean-ingless. It's skewed by a small number of people earning very large amounts of money.

MichaelKnee · 07-02-2020 12:29am

Peregrine wrote: »

Yes. The mean value is mean-ingless. It's skewed by a small number of people earning very large amounts of money.

What's the median income? I can't find statistics on it. Also, it doesn't change the fact that high taxes kick in at a low amount.

DellyBelly · 07-02-2020 12:29am

Maverick Tight Octopus wrote: »

Where are getting the average salary of €47k from?

Im a bit surprised by that figure. Thought it might be a little higher. Suppose that includes outside cities because if it doesn't I'd say the average wage is closer to 55 - 69 k. Definitely in Dublin anyway

Zebra3 · 07-02-2020 12:30am

Leg End Reject wrote: »

But we don't get the services, that's the problem. Between 40% tax and all the USC bands you'd think you'd get at least 1 or 2 GP visits a years and a functioning health service so you don't rely on private health insurance.

I totally agree with you that we don't get the services, but that's the desire of the right-wing parties to get people to sign up for privitised services.

In my opinion, all private services, be it education, health or whatever, should be privately funded, but instead, the right-wing thieves use taxpayers' money to fund the well-off.

Provide people with high standard secular education, health services and if people want to opt out, let them pay for it themselves.

MichaelKnee · 07-02-2020 12:33am

DellyBelly wrote: »

Im a bit surprised by that figure. Thought it might be a little higher. Suppose that includes outside cities because if it doesn't I'd say the average wage is closer to 55 - 69 k. Definitely in Dublin anyway

Definitely in the IT/finance industries

Plumbthedepths · 07-02-2020 12:35am

Average salary is a misnomer, median is a far better metric. The amount would be considerably less than 47k.

jaxxx · 07-02-2020 12:35am

"Average" salary. I would be far more interested in what the national "Median" salary was. Average don't paint a true picture. 9 people earn €20k per year. 1 earns €100k. Average is €28k. That's 40% a year more than what 90% of people in this very very very very simple scenario earn. How is that at all accurate?

MichaelKnee · 07-02-2020 12:35am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Average salary is a misnomer, median is a far better metric. The amount would be considerably less than 47k.

What's the median salary in Ireland?

Plumbthedepths · 07-02-2020 12:37am

MichaelKnee wrote: »

What's the median salary?

This was the most recent I could find but I suspect it hasn't risen 10k in less than 3 years.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-64-of-workers-in-ireland-earn-less-than-the-average-salary-4562071-Apr2019/

MichaelKnee · 07-02-2020 12:39am

jaxxx wrote: »

Say you have 10 people, all with different salaries. You rank the salaries in ascending order. You then pick the very middle salary and this is the median. In this case you would be looking at the 5th and 6th highest salary (or get the average of these 2 figures).

I know what the median means, what's the median salary in Ireland?

bennyineire · 07-02-2020 12:40am

MichaelKnee wrote: »

What's the median salary?

The salary range that most people earn, nobody can seem to find this statistic. It's like the government and senior civil servants are trying to hide it from us.

Look up bell shape graphs if you need further explanation

MichaelKnee · 07-02-2020 12:42am

bennyineire wrote: »

The salary range that most people earn, nobody can seem to find this statistic. It's like the government and senior civil servants are trying to hide it from us.

Look up bell shape graphs if you need further explanation

I meant the median salary. See above comment if you need further explanation.

Plumbthedepths · 07-02-2020 12:42am

MichaelKnee wrote: »

I know what the median means, what's the median salary in Ireland?

2017 when the CSO released the figures it was 37k.

Akrasia · 07-02-2020 12:44am

DellyBelly wrote: »

Im a bit surprised by that figure. Thought it might be a little higher. Suppose that includes outside cities because if it doesn't I'd say the average wage is closer to 55 - 69 k. Definitely in Dublin anyway

Yeah, cause all those shop assistants, bar staff, car washers, laborers, plumbers, hotel workers, receptionists, admin staff etc are all on 60k a year...

The average wage stats are skewed because we live in an economy where a small percentage of people earn a fortune and the rest of the population scrape by on 24k a year ( if they’re lucky)

The median income is a better representation of what most people are earning, and it’s nowhere near 60k a year. Much closer to half of that.

MichaelKnee · 07-02-2020 12:45am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

2017 when the CSO released the figures it was 37k.

37k as a median isn't bad really.

Plumbthedepths · 07-02-2020 12:47am

MichaelKnee wrote: »

37k as a median isn't bad really.

That's pre tax and not great if your rent is 1300 a month. Good luck getting a mortgage.

MichaelKnee · 07-02-2020 12:48am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

That's pre tax and not great if your rent is 1300 a month. Good luck getting a mortgage.

So is the 47000 figure. Regardless, 37k falls within the higher tax rate also, so my original point stands.

A couple on 37k each could afford a 280-290k property as per CB guidelines.

Geuze · 07-02-2020 12:55am

Maverick Tight Octopus wrote: »

Where are getting the average salary of €47k from?

Mean average earnings of full-time workers are 47k approx.

That includes overtime and bonuses.

Geuze · 07-02-2020 12:57am

MichaelKnee wrote: »

What's the median income? I can't find statistics on it. Also, it doesn't change the fact that high taxes kick in at a low amount.

Note that earnings and incomes are not the same.

Income data is found in the SILC:

https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/socialconditions/surveyonincomeandlivingconditionssilc/

Geuze · 07-02-2020 12:59am

MichaelKnee wrote: »

What's the median salary in Ireland?

Median earnings or median income?

Median earnings data are hard to find.

Have a look here:

https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/

Income data is in the SILC:

https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/socialconditions/surveyonincomeandlivingconditionssilc/

Geuze · 07-02-2020 1:00am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

2017 when the CSO released the figures it was 37k.

Exact source for that, please?

Which CSO publication?

Nermal · 07-02-2020 1:01am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Average salary is a misnomer.

You’re pretty confident for someone who doesn’t know what ‘misnomer’ means.

Geuze · 07-02-2020 1:05am

I look here:

https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/

and I find this:

https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/structuralearnings/

but I don't know what they mean by "Structural Earnings"

In there, I find this:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eaads/earningsanalysisusingadministrativedatasources2018/

And then I find data for mean and median earnings in 2018:

Mean = 741 pw
Median = 593 pw

This is across all employments.

Note that a person can have more than one employment.

Geuze · 07-02-2020 1:09am

I keep searching, and find:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eaads/earningsanalysisusingadministrativedatasources2018/annualearnings/

2018 annual earnings, across all employments (not workers)

Mean = 44,180
Median = 36,095

Again, note that a person can have two employments.

Methodology
All employments except as detailed below: employees earning less than €500 per annum, employments where the duration was less than two weeks in the year, secondary employments earning less than €4,000 per annum, extremely high earnings values, observations with missing employer and employee reference numbers employment activity in NACE sectors A, T and U.

Plumbthedepths · 07-02-2020 1:12am

Nermal wrote: »

You’re pretty confident for someone who doesn’t know what ‘misnomer’ means.

You want to argue semantics?

Plumbthedepths · 07-02-2020 1:17am

Geuze wrote: »

Exact source for that, please?

Which CSO publication?

I'm on my phone so I can't see the post count but the article I linked is still there.

endacl · 07-02-2020 1:18am

antodeco wrote: »

In fact, if you earn more, you buy more, meaning you actually pay more VAT on goods than someone who earns less.

Not necessarily. I earn a fair bit more than that, but I buy fcukall. Not because I'm cheap, but because I'm not really into 'stuff'. I'm sure I'm not the only one? Many of the relatively high earners I'd know don't either. Income isn't a spending target, you know.

antodeco · 07-02-2020 11:00am

endacl wrote: »

Not necessarily. I earn a fair bit more than that, but I buy fcukall. Not because I'm cheap, but because I'm not really into 'stuff'. I'm sure I'm not the only one? Many of the relatively high earners I'd know don't either. Income isn't a spending target, you know.

And Equally, the same people on lower money, could also be the exact same as you. It was a personal example for me. I, similarly to you, would earn a fair bit more than that, and buy loads. Theres also people who buy nothing, regardless of their income

andekwarhola · 07-02-2020 11:09am

Average tend to be more inaccurate and higher than median so is usually used more often for propaganda about living standards.

jimgoose · 07-02-2020 11:20am

I don't know if I'd go quite as high as 47k, but the lower income tax band needs to be significantly broader, in both directions, than it currently is. It is nothing short of criminal what happens to your paypacket when you go over it.

07-02-2020 11:21am

endacl wrote: »

Not necessarily. I earn a fair bit more than that, but I buy fcukall. Not because I'm cheap, but because I'm not really into 'stuff'. I'm sure I'm not the only one? Many of the relatively high earners I'd know don't either. Income isn't a spending target, you know.

You would be an exception though, generally the more you earn the more you spend. Whats the point in earning more if you aren't enjoying it I say.

I disagree with the higher rate of tax regardless of where it cut off is. You shouldn't be punished for earning more, every euro you earn in the higher rate you only get 50 cent. Its scandellous.

The absolute idiots in SF then want to remove USC for lower earners. This is absolute brain dead stuff, if anything lower earner should be contributing more and taking more of the tax burden. Removing the USC means lower earners pay less again leaving middle and higher earners to subsidise them. Complete madness.

Ficheall · 07-02-2020 11:24am

bennyineire wrote: »

MichaelKnee wrote: »

What's the median salary in Ireland?

The salary range that most people earn

Technically that's the mode, right? Though I presume the median is what people are interested in.
10,10,10,20,30,40,50,60,70,100,200.
Mode:10
Median:40
Mean:54.5

Average salary at €47,000

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