Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Ireland's Jewish community

168101112

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Ragnar Lothbrok


    Do you actually know what Palestinians want?

    They want all Jews ethnically cleansed from Israel. All of them.

    Perhaps the hardline muslim fundamentalists do.

    I would say that most ordinary Palestinian people want the same as people the whole world over: civil rights, justice, equality and respect. Not forgetting freedom from a massively oppressive IDF.

    The problem with that is how do we achieve it in a way that is acceptable to both the Palestinian and Israeli people? A long, hard road, but perhaps studying the conflict in the north of Ireland, and the subsequent peace talks, would be a start.

    For what it's worth, I think the problems in the Middle East are even more complicated than the situation in Ireland though, and I'm not even sure that there is enough political will on either side to create a framework for peace.

    The rise of fundamentalist islam has made the situation even harder than it was before, and although this isn't anything that I'd usually freely admit to, I do find myself becoming slightly more understanding of the Israeli position.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Ragnar Lothbrok


    Edgware wrote: »
    But idiots are made feel at home in SF with like minded colleagues who are easily influenced

    Helpful and insightful contribution. Well done :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Perhaps the hardline muslim fundamentalists do.

    I would say that most ordinary Palestinian people want the same as people the whole world over: civil rights, justice, equality and respect. Not forgetting freedom from a massively oppressive IDF.


    You would be very incorrect.

    Palestinians do not care about LGBT rights. Social justice.

    They care about honor and their land.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    It's the Israelis who want palestine to be its own separate state. .



    God love your innocence.
    Palestinians dont want that. They want the whole land of palestine and israel to be one state palestine..


    Some do support a single state solution, which would never work.
    And they want the jews ..gone.




    Some of them do. Perhaps if the Israeli state stopped colonising the West Bank and started to dismantle its colonial regime there and in the rest of the OT attitudes might mellow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Odhinn wrote: »
    God love your innocence.




    Some do support a single state solution, which would never work.






    Some of them do. Perhaps if the Israeli state stopped colonising the West Bank and started to dismantle its colonial regime there and in the rest of the OT attitudes might mellow.


    No that is what the majority of Palestinians want. Like 90% . And they will never give it up.

    Israelis left Gaza. No difference in fact they were attacked. It made things worse.

    Palestinians feel all jews should leave.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    I live very near a jewish school in rathgar so see a lot of children passing by in their kippas. I know a few acquaintances who are jewish. And one friend of mine is jewish , israeli-american


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    You would be very incorrect.

    Palestinians do not care about LGBT rights. Social justice.

    They care about honor and their land.




    Course not - Palestinians are "other" and lesser beings in culture, religion and acheivement. Thus its only right that they are dealt with sternly. Classic stuff.


    When the Israeli security forces destroy palestinian homes and blackmail gay palestinians, or force palestinains to walk in front of their patrols, how much do you reckon they care about LGBT rights and social justice?


    Did you ever actually read material from those sites you listed earlier?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Ragnar Lothbrok


    I don't want to not get on with people or fight because they like sinn fein here.

    I feel that is where its going.

    I think I will just stop posting in the thread. Its not avoidance. It is just not the kind of energy i want to give out.

    Hopefully you continue to post in this thread. It is interesting to see some of your views (even though I have massive problems with some of them, of course). As the only person in this thread, I think, who is Jewish, I think it's vital that you don't feel victimised, and that you continue to add your unique perspective on Jewish people in Ireland.

    If this thread doesn't get derailed by anti-Sinn Féin sentiments, it's got the opportunity to be very interesting and informative.

    I'm actually surprised it hasn't descended into a muslim bashing thread by the usual suspects so far ;)

    Anyway, I'm away for the weekend.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Hopefully you continue to post in this thread. It is interesting to see some of your views (even though I have massive problems with some of them, of course). As the only person in this thread, I think, who is Jewish, I think it's vital that you don't feel victimised, and that you continue to add your unique perspective on Jewish people in Ireland.

    If this thread doesn't get derailed by anti-Sinn Féin sentiments, it's got the opportunity to be very interesting and informative.

    I'm actually surprised it hasn't descended into a muslim bashing thread by the usual suspects so far ;)

    Anyway, I'm away for the weekend.

    I would never let it become a Muslim bashing thread or a Palestinian or Arab bashing thread.

    I don't even want it to be a Sinn Fein bashing thread.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Odhinn wrote: »

    When the Israeli security forces destroy palestinian homes and blackmail gay palestinians, or force palestinains to walk in front of their patrols, how much do you reckon they care about LGBT rights and social justice?
    I think you have that backwards. Hamas does all that to palestinians.

    And yes Palestinians support a one state solution only .

    All the polls taken say this. They also believe armed struggle is the only way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    At the end of WW ii the borders of Europe were shifted eastwards with substantial changes to the borders of Germany, Poland and Ukraine forced by the USSR.

    Yet you never hear of Germans demanding the right to return to Danzig etc. since the fall of the iron curtain.

    Maybe the best solution is just to accept the status quo like the rest of the world. Do a quid pro quo for the loss of Palestinian lands for the mass displacement of Jewish populations from the other Arab lands.


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    All this Israeli and Palestinian stuff is very interesting, but is there anyone Jewish here who'd like to tell us what it was like growing up as a jewish person in Ireland?

    Or a non-jewish person with that family? What did you do at Christmas? Did good Friday feature, did you notice Easter? How did you vote?

    I'd say it would be fascinating.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    I think you have that backwards. Hamas does all that to palestinians.




    Hamas are only in charge of Gaza.



    And while Hamas far from lovely, its a fact that the IDF destroy palestinian homes, blackmail gay palestinians, or force palestinains to walk in front of their patrols


    Again - have you ever read any amount of material from those groups you linked earlier? Because it doesn't seem like it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Hamas are only in charge of Gaza.



    And while Hamas far from lovely, its a fact that the IDF destroy palestinian homes, blackmail gay palestinians, or force palestinains to walk in front of their patrols


    Again - have you ever read any amount of material from those groups you linked earlier? Because it doesn't seem like it.

    I think I am just putting you on ignore. You don't listen and can't argue without being aggressive and abusive. You keep crossing lines and don't seem to realize.

    The PA is in charge of the rest of palestine they are just as bad.


    And anyway ..you could blackmail them if they weren't risking death by coming out as gay ...think about that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    I think I am just putting you on ignore. You don't listen and can't argue without being aggressive and abusive. You keep crossing lines and don't seem to realize.




    Very convenient. I've been neither, but use what excuse you will.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,409 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    The dublin orthodox synagogue was recently defaced with swastikas.

    Last year the security guard was attacked.

    Lots of stuff happens.

    One incident was identified by staff as drunken vandalism , the other a mental health issue.

    The incidents are a disgrace nut theres not lots of them .


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭Fan of Netflix


    All this Israeli and Palestinian stuff is very interesting, but is there anyone Jewish here who'd like to tell us what it was like growing up as a jewish person in Ireland?

    Or a non-jewish person with that family? What did you do at Christmas? Did good Friday feature, did you notice Easter? How did you vote?

    I'd say it would be fascinating.
    I'd say they vote for Fine Gael and the Labour party. I've seen Lenny Abrahamson come out with anti SF stuff before. Strikes me as a Labour voter.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    When I was a young kid growing up in Rathmines, our local RC Church was Rathgar, and almost behind that was the Progressive Synagogue. When it came to the Christmas Church collection I remember hearing my mother saying “we have to pay the Christmas (Dues) Jews” and I automatically thought it was a collection for the synagogue, and as we always had a drink with our Jewish neighbours at Christmas the idea of “Christmas Jews” seemed a perfectly natural one. I summed up in my own mind that the collection was made in the church because there were not enough Jews to support the running of the synagogue. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭Odhinn




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    I'd say they vote for Fine Gael and the Labour party. I've seen Lenny Abrahamson come out with anti SF stuff before. Strikes me as a Labour voter.


    What did he say?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    but is there anyone Jewish here who'd like to tell us what it was like growing up as a jewish person in Ireland?

    Or a non-jewish person with that family? What did you do at Christmas? Did good Friday feature, did you notice Easter? How did you vote?

    I'd say it would be fascinating.


    It was fine for the most part.

    Its strange ..no we don't do christmass at home.

    But you feel like you do. Christmass is just everywhere.

    Its good that way ..christians never lose touch. Whereas unless you are observant etc its your family relatives etc that keep you in touch in Judaism.

    So if you are living alone etc or people pass away and you don't keep touch with it ..it can get lost if you let it.

    Society doesn't do Yom Kippur every year. It does Christmass and easter every year though.

    I feel we are much closer with our Rabbis though.

    I think priests are just scary.

    Rabbis have kids of their own so they are better with them. They talk about family more than priests.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭Fan of Netflix


    What did he say?
    Was just some tweets and stuff, didn't sound like he liked them.But he is a leftie I think.


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I
    I feel we are much closer with our Rabbis though.

    I think priests are just scary.
    Just thought I'd hone-in on this a bit, if that's ok. Can you give more detail? Why are priests scary?

    I'm non RC but always found priests fairly ambivalent (and vice versa). Nuns on the other hand are charming -- they love a protestant (they also have the best sectarian jokes).

    I'm curious as to how your experiences compared to that kind of interaction. You must have met priests and nuns, but you describe priests as 'scary'?

    I can't quite understand that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    When I was a young kid growing up in Rathmines, our local RC Church was Rathgar, and almost behind that was the Progressive Synagogue. When it came to the Christmas Church collection I remember hearing my mother saying “we have to pay the Christmas (Dues) Jews” and I automatically thought it was a collection for the synagogue, and as we always had a drink with our Jewish neighbours at Christmas the idea of “Christmas Jews” seemed a perfectly natural one. I summed up in my own mind that the collection was made in the church because there were not enough Jews to support the running of the synagogue. :)
    That's really sweet :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Why are priests scary?

    I think their idea of god is very different. The culture is different.

    The religion is different.

    Rabbis are really teachers. Actually they are really scholars.


  • Site Banned Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭RIGOLO


    My next door neighbours growing up were Jewish. One of those families that had lost all their grandparents to give some Germans some livingspace.

    Even from a young age I could see the loss in their eyes. The pain was palpable but they never discussed it, they just got on with life.
    Nice family, they still live in the same place so I dont think them being JEwish in Ireland has been a problem .

    Ive worked with alot of Jewish people down thru the years, damn they are smart and funny, in fact I find them very funny when they are not consumed with work. I like their sense of humour, especially the younger Jews.
    Irish people would be surprised how many of them take home a living wage thanks to the efforts of Israeli tech entrepreneurs. IVe met a few ex Israeli tank commanders who have changed the world and the technology at your fingertips.

    Coincidentally I was flicking channels earlier today ended up watching a big program on I24 in which a Rabbi was explaining how Judaism and the Torah is constantly being re-interpreted for the present and for the future by intellectuals and artists and rabbis in the Jewish community.
    He really exponded on the work ethic of taking destiny in your own hands, of changing your own destiny thru your work and actions in life.
    One of these days I will get around to reading the book of Ruth. Feminism has strong roots in Judaism, and women have always been celebrated in Judaism afaik.

    I see some posts went off topic and talked of Nazi Germany.
    I personally rarely refer to them as Nazis, Id prefer to call it what it was, it was a GErman solution, voted for by the German people and acted on by the German people. Saying it was all the Nazis gives a undeserved free pass to the German people.

    WW2 FACTOID- Few Gestapo records were saved , as Russia advanced from the East and the other allies from the West 99% of the records were destroyed but in one town they forgot to do so and it formed the most complete record of what went on in that area.
    The biggest complaint from the Gestapo officers to their superiors in Berlin was that they were GETTING TOO MUCH ASSISTANCE FROM THE LOCALS .. THEY WERE OVERWHELMED WITH GERMAN CSTIZENS VOLUTEERING INFORMATION AND TUNING IN THEIR NEIGHBOURS.
    Im a WW2 buff, I rarely if ever refer to what the Nazis did, I always refer to what the GErmans did...

    Ive a new book ready to read ,
    VICTOR POLETSKI – AUSCHWITZ – THE VOLUNTEER by Jake Fairweather..
    A polish jew who volunterred to be captured and taken into a camp in 1940 so he could get news out of what was going on.
    Everyone knew what was going on.
    He smuggled a note out in 1940 asking the RAF to bomb the camps and put people out of their misery.
    The RAF did consider it . ... bombing the camps that is....

    Good luck to the Jewish Community in Irl...


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think their idea of god is very different. The culture is different.

    The religion is different.
    Eh?

    I mean the priests themselves. Do you find them scary, or not scary?
    Do you find the culture around Christianity to be generally intimidating?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,258 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I went to a nominally Christian Brothers school. The lay teachers were not intimidating. The actual Christian brothers were intimidating. The ex Christian Brothers should have been in prison. So it wasn't just a kid v adult thing. Can understand why non RC may see priests as scary.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    I went to a nominally Christian Brothers school. The lay teachers were not intimidating. The actual Christian brothers were intimidating. The ex Christian Brothers should have been in prison. So it wasn't just a kid v adult thing. Can understand why non RC may see priests as scary.
    I agree. I did sixth year in a Chirstian Borthers' school, they went out of their way to treat a minority of us with courtesy.

    The other lads... oh boy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Eh?

    I mean the priests themselves. Do you find them scary, or not scary?
    Do you find the culture around Christianity to be generally intimidating?


    I found the priests scary themselves. Obviously not all.

    I find the idea of god that priests have scary.

    Or else i have just misinterpreted it.


    What i was told growing up was that the devil was the part of you that wanted to judge other people and yourself. In the afterlife it was the part of you that said you or anyone else was not worthy to be part of the divine. And you have to leave that part behind.


    For some (not all) Jewish Theologians god is not even omnipotent not all powerful...

    God is vulnerable.






    Its about a relationship. And when you do good deeds you have to do them with joy. Because who wants to be in a fake relationship?

    If god is real ....he doesn't want you to be fake nice to him. He wants you to be angry with him.

    Yom Kippur isn't just about god forgiving you. Its about you forgiving god too. And getting closer in your relationship with him. That is why its so amazing. And if you can forgive god ..surely god can forgive you! ??

    The christian idea of god ...always seemed different.

    The Midrash/Talmud has many interpretations of god showing remorse. God says sorry.

    Also priests don't want to learn or find out. They just KNOW.

    Rabbis debate with you to come to an answer.

    https://www.ou.org/holidays/yom-hashoah/god-said-sorry/
    And God Said, “I Am Sorry”


    They walk the path with you.



    I always felt if its not everyone over the fence ...that's not my king! My god may not be as strong or powerful...but he is all in for everyone!


  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I found the priests scary themselves. Obviously not all.

    I find the idea of god that priests have scary.

    Or else i have just misinterpreted it.


    What i was told growing up was that the devil was the part of you that wanted to judge other people and yourself. In the afterlife it was the part of you that said you or anyone else was not worthy to be part of the divine. And you have to leave that part behind.
    I don't recognise anything you're mentioning. I went to non-RC and RC schools and I just didn't witness that -- quite the opposite. During religion class, they used to put us into a room of 13-18 year olds who would spend our time telling jokes. Those hours are some of my happiest experiences of school! Guess it was down to personal experiences.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,258 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I found the priests scary themselves. Obviously not all.
    I find the idea of god that priests have scary.
    Or else i have just misinterpreted it...
    For some (not all) Jewish Theologians god is not even omnipotent not all powerful... God is vulnerable.

    The Old Testament God seems like a pretty scary guy.
    Noah's Flood. Sodom and Gomorrah. The Walls of Jericho.

    His actions are scarier than anything I ever heard from a Catholic priest about God who is 'mitigated' shall we say, through the New Testament.
    When I said that Christian Brothers were scary, I didn't mean in their conception of God, I meant in the physical presence through their actions and demeanour.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    RIGOLO wrote: »
    Coincidentally I was flicking channels earlier today ended up watching a big program on I24 in which a Rabbi was explaining how Judaism and the Torah is constantly being re-interpreted for the present and for the future by intellectuals and artists and rabbis in the Jewish community.
    He really exponded on the work ethic of taking destiny in your own hands, of changing your own destiny thru your work and actions in life.
    One of these days I will get around to reading the book of Ruth. Feminism has strong roots in Judaism, and women have always been celebrated in Judaism afaik.



    .

    There is a lot more of that.

    Mitzvahs are kept by the observant. But meaning is constantly being understood and debated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    The Old Testament God seems like a pretty scary guy.
    Noah's Flood. Sodom and Gomorrah. The Walls of Jericho.

    His actions are scarier than anything I ever heard from a Catholic priest about God who is 'mitigated' shall we say, through the New Testament.
    When I said that Christian Brothers were scary, I didn't mean in their conception of God, I meant in the physical presence through their actions and demeanour.


    I know but we have talmud the interpretations etc. Its basically the debates on the old testament by learned scholars passed orally then written down.

    Even if you are not religious its really interesting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I don't recognise anything you're mentioning. I went to non-RC and RC schools and I just didn't witness that -- quite the opposite. During religion class, they used to put us into a room of 13-18 year olds who would spend our time telling jokes. Those hours are some of my happiest experiences of school! Guess it was down to personal experiences.


    Yeah I suppose so. :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭Fan of Netflix


    Very interesting article and info here on some Jewish history in Ireland:

    https://comeheretome.com/2013/11/07/jewish-community-during-the-revolutionary-period-1916-23/
    In the early half of the twentieth century, there were roughly 3,700 Jews living in Ireland. This represented about 0.12% of the total population. Though their numbers were minuscule, members of the the Jewish community were disproportionately active in the fight for Irish independence. Melisande Zlotover in his 1966 memoir ‘Zlotover story: A Dublin story with a difference’ assessed the overall situation by writing that Dublin’s Jews “were most sympathetic [to the fight for Independence] and many helped in the cause”.

    These included:

    Michael Noyk (1884–1966) was born in Lithuanian town of Telšiai and moved to Dublin with his parents at the age of one. An Irish Republican activist and lawyer, he most famously defended republican prisoners during the War of Independence and afterwards. In the 1917 Clare East by-election he was a prominent worker for Eamon de Valera and in the 1918 general election was election agent for Countess Markievicz and Seán T. O’Kelly. He was later involved in renting houses and offices for all the ministries established under the first Dáil. During the War of Independence he regularly met Michael Collins in Devlin’s pub on Parnell Square and helped to run the republican courts. In 1921 he was to the fore in defending many leading members of the IRA, including Gen. Seán Mac Eoin and Capt. Patrick Moran, the latter of which was executed for complicity in the shooting of British intelligence officers.

    While Arthur Griffith’s early anti-Semitic comments (c.1904) are frequently recalled, it should be noted that he was an extremely close friend of Noyk’s from 1910 onwards and he remained Griffith’s solicitor until his death in 1922. So close did Griffith’s relationship with Noyk become that his own daughter would act as a flower girl at Noyk’s wedding as Manus O’Riordan reminded us in an excellent 2008 article.

    In later years, Noyk became a founder-member of the Association of Old Dublin Brigade (IRA) and a member of the Kilmainham Jail Restoration Committee. Keenly interested in sport, he played soccer in his youth for a team based around Adelaide Road and was for many years the solicitor to Shamrock Rovers. He died on 23 October 1966 at Lewisham Hospital in London. A huge crowd, including the then taoiseach, Seán Lemass, attended his funeral and the surviving members of the Dublin Brigade rendered full IRA military honours at his graveside. He is buried in Dolphin’s Barn cemetery.
    Noyk is honoured with portrait. The Irish Times, 06 Apr 1960.
    screen-shot-2013-11-06-at-20-02-36.png


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭Fan of Netflix


    Estella Solomons (1882–1968), who “hailed from one of the longest established Jewish families in Dublin”, was a distinguished artist active with the Rathmines branch of Cumann na mBan (Wynn, 2012, p. 60). One of her first jobs was distributing arms and ammunition which she kept hidden under the vegetable patch at the family home on Waterloo Road. (Wynn, 2012, p.60) When her sister visited from London with her British Army husband,, Estella stole his uniform and passed it onto the IRA. Solomons sheltered IRA fugitives in her studio during the War of Independence, and concealed weapons under the pretence of gardening. Estella’s IRA contact was a milk delivery man, who acted as a perfect cover for moving arms and gathering information. She persuaded him to teach her to shoot, in exchange she painted a portrait of his wife. Taking the anti-Treaty side and sheltering Republicans during the Civil War, her studio was often raided by Free State troops.

    Solomons was elected an associate of the Royal Hibernian Academy (RHA) in July 1925, but it was not until 1966 that Solomons was elected an honorary member. Her work was included in the Academy’s annual members’ exhibition every year for sixty years. As her parents were opposed to her marrying outside her faith, it was not until August 1925, when she was 43 and her husband 46, that she married Seumas O’Sullivan, the editor and founder of the influential literary publication Dublin Magazine.
    Robert Emmet Briscoe (1894–1969) was a Jewish Dublin-born republican and businessman who most famously ran guns for the IRA during the War of Independence. Named after revolutionary leader Robert Emmet, his father, a steadfast Parnellite called another son Wolfe Tone Briscoe. Politicised after the Easter Rising, Robert attended meetings of Clan na Gael in the United States, meeting Liam Mellows, who influenced his return to Ireland (August 1917) to join the headquarters staff of Na Fianna Éireann. The clothing factory that Robert Briscoe opened at 9 Aston Quay, and a subsequent second workshop in Coppinger’s Row, both served as headquarters for clandestine Fianna and IRA activities before and during the War of Independence. Unknown to government authorities owing to his lack of prior political involvement, Briscoe engaged in arms-and-ammunition procurement and transport, and gathering of intelligence. Transferred to IRA headquarters staff (February 1920), he was dispatched by Michael Collins to Germany, where, with his knowledge of the language and country, he established and oversaw a network of arms purchase and transport. He maintained a steady flow of matériel after the July 1921 truce, and from 1922 to the anti-treaty IRA, with which he maintained links for some years after the civil war. Returning to Ireland after the 1924 general amnesty, he managed the Dublin operations of Briscoe Importing, a firm already established by two of his brothers.

    During the summer of 1926 the IRA raided the offices and homes of moneylenders in both Dublin and Limerick. Manus O’Riordan wrote that:

    Those who were raided were indeed predominantly Jewish, but the IRA explicitly stated that their attack was on moneylending itself, “not on Jewry”.

    Historian Brian Hanley summed up the situation well when he said that the IRA:

    …were supported in their claims by the prominent Jewish politician in Ireland, Robert Briscoe of de Valera’s Fianna Fáil Party. He argued that he did not see the raids as anti-Semitic, and wished it to be known that he and ‘many other members of the Jewish community’ abhorred moneylending and expressed his admiration for the IRA’s attempts to end ‘this rotten trade’.

    A founding member of Fianna Fáil (1926), he served on its first executive committee, and worked on constructing the party’s national constituency organisation, transporting party workers countrywide in his recently purchased motor car. Defeated in the June 1927 general election and in an August 1927 by-election occasioned by the death of Constance Markievicz, in the September 1927 general election he was elected to Dáil Éireann, becoming the first Jewish TD, and commencing an unbroken tenure of thirty-eight years, representing Dublin South (1927–48) and Dublin South-West (1948–65). Twice lord mayor of Dublin (1956–7, 1961–2), he made a spectacularly successful whistle-stop tour of the USA (1957) – the first of several official visits, trade missions, and speaking tours – lauded by Irish- and Jewish-Americans as Dublin’s first Jewish lord mayor.
    JFK meeting with IRA veteran Robert Briscoe, Lord Mayor of Dublin. 26 March 1962. Credit - jfklibrary.org.
    ..

    briscoe-kennedy.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    It's amazing that such a tiny minority (less than 1%) could achieve so much and give such a positive contribution to Irish society.


  • Advertisement
  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭Fan of Netflix


    Gerald Yael Goldberg (1912–2003), Cork-born solicitor, politician and writer, retained vivid childhood memories of the War of Independence and Civil War period, including the burning of central Cork by crown forces (during which his family had to leave their home temporarily). He attended the lyings‐in‐state of Tomàs MacCurtain and Terence MacSwiney both of whom he always revered. In later life he commissioned portraits of MacCurtain and MacSwiney for the City Hall while he was Lord Mayor. Goldberg also acquired a long-lasting respect for fellow Corkman Michael Collins after hearing him speak at a public meeting.

    The Goldbergs moved to Cork after the anti‐Semitic Limerick riots, and subsequent boycott, of 1904, in which Gerald’s father Louis was assaulted. In secondary school, he and his brother got into trouble after they applied to be excused from Armistice Day (as a German pupil was excused) because the British had murdered MacCurtain and MacSwiney. In the 1930s Goldberg established a committee in Cork to help Jewish refugees from Nazi persecution; in later life he spoke bitterly of the refusal of the state to admit such refugees, and recalled how a German Jew who deserted a ship at Cobh was sent back to the concentration camps despite the Cork community’s willingness to assist him. A successful solicitor, he was elected president of the Cork Hebrew Congregation in 1943, and remained the public face of Cork Jewry until his death.

    Goldberg was elected to Cork corporation as an independent alderman for the north‐west ward in 1967 but joined Fianna Fáil in 1970, stating that it was impossible for an isolated councillor to achieve anything on the corporation. In 1977, he was elected lord mayor of Cork, the first Jew to hold this office. During his term he researched the history of the civic regalia, including the mayoral chain (he published a pamphlet on its connection with Terence MacSwiney) and the mace (leading him to make a public appeal for the British Museum to return to Cork several former Cork maces it had acquired over the years). In 1982 he openly considered leaving Ireland after he received death threats and after a fire‐bomb attack on the Cork synagogue, which were linked to hostile relations between Irish peacekeeping forces in South Lebanon and Israeli and Israeli‐backed forces. He retired from Cork corporation in 1985. He died, at the age of 91, in Cork, on 31 December 2003, and received a civic funeral on 4 January 2004 to the Cork Jewish graveyard at Curraghkippane. Cork corporation members wore skullcaps in his honour.

    Francis Rebecca ‘Fanny’ Goldberg (1893-?) and Molly Goldberg (1896-), sisters of Gerald, were active with Cuman na mBan. Dermot Keogh in his book ‘Jews In Twentieth Century Ireland’ (1998) mentions this fact but unfortunately no further information seems to be available about their activities.

    Leon Spiro, who moved to Dublin from Lithuania at the age of two was manager of the Pearl Printing Company in Drury Street. The IRA newspaper An t-Olgach was printer by Spiro during the early 1920s and he employed Oscar Traynor (Commanding Officer of the Dublin I.R.A.) as a compositor. Natalie Wynn in her essay ‘Jews, Antisemitism and Irish Politics : A Tale of Two Narrative’ (2012) suggests that the paper was indeed printed by Leon Spiro but only after he had been “forcibly detained” in his office. This information was gleaned from a unpublished memoir written by Leon’s daughter Jessie Spiro Bloom.

    Cohen brothers
    George White, member of ‘C’ Company 3rd Battalion Dublin Brigade IRA from 1917 and later Quartermaster Active Service Unit from 1921, recalled in his Witness Statement (no. 956) that a Jewish man by the name of Max Cohen lived in a house that was being used an arms dump at 3 Swifts Row beside Ormond Quay in Dublin city centre. Max “knew all about the dump but said nothing about it” to the authorities. His brother Abraham, who ran an antique shop at 20 Ormond Quay, told White and another IRA member that they could use his shop anytime “as a means of escape”.

    I remember reading about some of this before but not all in one place.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    The actions of DeValera and SF is a real betrayal given everything posted above.


  • Site Banned Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭RIGOLO


    Gerald Yael Goldberg (1912–2003), Cork-born solicitor, politician and writer, retained vivid childhood memories of the War of Independence and Civil War period, including the burning of central Cork by crown forces (during which his family had to leave their home temporarily). He attended the lyings‐in‐state of Tomàs MacCurtain and Terence MacSwiney both of whom he always revered. In later life he commissioned portraits of MacCurtain and MacSwiney for the City Hall while he was Lord Mayor. Goldberg also acquired a long-lasting respect for fellow Corkman Michael Collins after hearing him speak at a public meeting.....

    That reminds me I purchased some of Goldbergs library after he died.
    A bigger bunch of 80s feminist , pseudo intellectual , United Nations etc ****e you would be hard pressed to find , the only reason I held onto most of it was the odd gem and the EX-LIBRIS stamp on the inside cover.

    Im sure the man did alot for Cork , had a sincere heart and looked after everyone in the community but he certainly couldnt pick a book to take on summer holidays.
    May he RIP, or whatever it is you say


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,942 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    I know but we have talmud the interpretations etc. Its basically the debates on the old testament by learned scholars passed orally then written down.

    Even if you are not religious its really interesting.

    Talmudic interpretation and the evolution of it really is fascinating.
    I remember reading about a document from Prague that was anottated over hundreds of years with rabbinical revisions and argument.
    Rabbi's separates by hundreds of years stated and framed their interpretations and you could read this and view the evolution of thought across the document.

    Then I read about similar in almost every town/city with a Jewish quarter...
    Then it dawned on me that even with what we still have, so much of philosophical and religious merit was lost from Europe along with the lives taken by Pogrom, Holocaust and intolerance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Helpful and insightful contribution. Well done :rolleyes:

    Thanks. Its good that you appreciate the truth


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    banie01 wrote: »
    Talmudic interpretation and the evolution of it really is fascinating.
    I remember reading about a document from Prague that was anottated over hundreds of years with rabbinical revisions and argument.
    Rabbi's separates by hundreds of years stated and framed their interpretations and you could read this and view the evolution of thought across the document.

    That's talmud.

    Its interpretation ..jews don't live by what is in the bible but by the interpretation of it in the talmud. For spiritual teaching they are constantly re-interpreting it.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,942 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    That's talmud.

    Its interpretation ..jews don't live by what is in the bible but by the interpretation of it in the talmud. For spiritual teaching they are constantly re-interpreting it.

    Which is the point I was making?
    The evolution and interpretation of the Torah in changing times has shaped the Talmud and the philosophy of adaptation is fascinating both from an historical and a sociological viewpoint.

    That the evolution of religious law beyond the commandments, and Leviticus is a constant thing, shaped by contemporary concerns rather than a dogmatic clinging to traditional interpretation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    Karl Marx.

    My brother knows him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Achasanai


    I'd say they vote for Fine Gael and the Labour party. I've seen Lenny Abrahamson come out with anti SF stuff before. Strikes me as a Labour voter.


    I'd say you'd find they will vote for whatever party most suits their political interests, just like the rest of us.


    My friend's brother-in-law is Jewish and would vote FF, or at least used to (before the crash).


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 17,424 ✭✭✭✭Conor Bourke


    My brother knows him.

    I met him eating mushrooms in the People’s Park.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    RIGOLO wrote: »
    I see some posts went off topic and talked of Nazi Germany.
    I personally rarely refer to them as Nazis, Id prefer to call it what it was, it was a GErman solution, voted for by the German people and acted on by the German people. Saying it was all the Nazis gives a undeserved free pass to the German people.
    For someone who claims to be a buff of the period your take is decidedly partisan and more Hollywood than fact and painting an entire nation under a totalitarian dictatorship in such terms is shabby indeed. The German people did not at any stage "vote" for the Final Solution. Even those of lower position who served within the inner circle of the orchestrators of this mass murder of all those they considered subhumans, Jews, gypsies, gays, Soviets, even "Arian" Germans who stood in their way, vanishingly few were privy to the realities. Why do you suppose the death camps were situated outside Germany? There was a reason for that.
    Ive a new book ready to read ,
    VICTOR POLETSKI – AUSCHWITZ – THE VOLUNTEER by Jake Fairweather..
    A polish jew who volunterred to be captured and taken into a camp in 1940 so he could get news out of what was going on.
    Everyone knew what was going on.
    He smuggled a note out in 1940 asking the RAF to bomb the camps and put people out of their misery.
    The RAF did consider it . ... bombing the camps that is....
    While he was the very definition of a hero, Witold Pilecki was not Jewish, he was a devout Catholic from a Polish aristocratic family. And "everyone" didn't know what was going on. Why do you think he volunteered for such a deathly dangerous task to pass as a Jew to see for himself and then tell the world what was going on?

    So yeah, maybe hone your facts first?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Advertisement
Advertisement