Polar noon (June Solstice)

To appreciate polar noon where the North pole will be half way to the circle of illumination shortly thereby creating the largest surface area where the Sun is constantly in view (Arctic circle), a number of historical and technical adjustments are necessary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession#/media/File:Earth_precession.svg

Copernicus and his contemporaries were tied to the Ptolemaic framework where he was forced into an attempt to mesh his new system of cause and effect between cyclical events experienced on the surface with predictive astronomy which served astronomers since remote antiquity.

Copernicus correctly identified the change on position of the North pole to the circle of illumination and the central Sun in his original description found in the Commentariolus which was conceived about 30 years before De Revolutionibus -

"The third is the motion in declination. For, the axis of the daily rotation is not parallel to the Grand Orb's axis, but is inclined [to it at an angle that intercepts] a portion of a circumference, in our time about 23 1/2°. Therefore, while the earth's center always remains in the plane of the ecliptic, that is, in the circumference of a circle of the Grand Orb, the earth's poles rotate, both of them describing small circles about centers [lying on a line that moves] parallel to the Grand Orb's axis. The period of this motion also is a year, but not quite, being nearly equal to the Grand Orb's [revolution]. The Grand Orb's axis, however, being invariant with regard to the firmament, is directed toward what are called the poles of the ecliptic. The poles of the daily rotation would always be fixed in like manner at the same points of the heavens by the motion in declination combined with the Orb's motion, if their periods were exactly equal."
Copernicus

http://copernicus.torun.pl/en/archives/astronomical/1/?view=transkrypcja&


Why the actual behavior of the North and South poles in relation to the Solstice and Equinox points as an annual event was conceptually shifted to a 25,920 year cyclical conclusion is a long and complex story of timekeeping astronomy vs interpretative astronomy and the inability to make the two mesh hence the deficiencies we inherited today in respect to astronomy and meteorology.

I understand that Copernicus would be crippled with objections had he maintained the correct perspective by his contemporaries whereas today the original proposal needs inspection for its validity. The issue of meteorological seasons vs astronomical seasons is exceptionally unhelpful or what effectively is an attempt to exclude the astronomical components in weather and cyclical seasonal events like the hurricane or Arctic sea ice seasons.

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

I really don't get the message behind this thread.

You can always follow the current hideous 'explanation' of polar noon based on a tilting circle of illumination on a planet with a zero degree inclination -

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap170319.html

People have been kind so far in allowing a more suitable explanation of the June Solstice and why the area where the Sun is constantly in view reaches it's maximum circumference known as the Arctic circle and starts contracting after the Solstice event. It also explains why temperatures fluctuate between either poles due to a combination of daily and orbital motion -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvbV9llG5L8&t=19s


Meteorology and the great cyclical events like hurricane and Arctic sea ice season is tied to the astronomical points intimately so creating a meteorological vs astronomical seasons disrupts this appreciation.

There are many hundreds of points involved but if you believe the NASA 'explanation' for the seasons then you will not get a single one of those points. It is therefore for meteorologists who can move effortlessly between planetary dynamics and weather as an inter-disciplinary necessity.

This is for those who can appreciate that the widest possible circumference, with the North pole at its centre, where the Sun remains constantly in view (Arctic circle) is reached today before that circumference starts to shrink over the next 3 months.

The North polar latitude changes position of the Sun and circle of illumination as a function of the orbital motion of the Earth so whereas it now exists half way to the circle of illumination today as viewed from the orbital plane -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfEJR2B6w5I

The North pole (where daily rotation is absent) will change position parallel to the orbital plane and will have a position on the circle of illumination on the September Equinox as viewed from the orbital plane -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Space_Climate_Observatory#/media/File:EpicEarth-Globespin-tilt-23.4.gif

Just as any location (apart from the North and South poles) where the Sun comes into view at dawn and disappears before twilight, noon is when that location is half way to the circle of illumination and temperatures rise well into the afternoon then so with Polar noon and the temperature rises in the Northern hemisphere into July/August.

When daily rotation and all its effects are subtracted, the entire surface of the Earth still turns once to the Sun as a function of the specific way the Earth orbits the Sun with each individual location experiencing noon and midnight simultaneously through an orbit.

Daily rotation and its traits swamps the orbital surface rotation, however, two places on the surface of the Earth where daily rotational velocity reduce to zero (North and South poles) act like beacons for the magnificent orbital surface rotation to the Sun.


The polar day/night cycle and its rotational cause prohibits splitting the seasons into meteorological and astronomical sub-groupings.

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

But what's your point?.

From experience of over 30 years dealing with academics, that isn't a question but rather a self-protecting statement signifying that you can't discuss or consider the material. Once again, this is for people who can appreciate polar noon in much the same way as daily rotational noon from a meteorological standpoint rather than presenting the explanation for those who can't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfEJR2B6w5I

The June Solstice or polar noon is when the North pole is half way to the planet's circle of illumination (line dividing daylight and darkness). It creates a maximum circumference with the North pole at its centre where the Sun remains constantly in view (Arctic circle) before that circumference starts to shrink for the next 3 months until the September Equinox with a single sunset at the North pole on that date -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Space_Climate_Observatory#/media/File:EpicEarth-Globespin-tilt-23.4.gif

Another view is that on the Solstice, the maximum length of time between sunrise and noon is symmetrical to the length of time from noon to sunset as throughout the year that symmetry is maintained between sunrise/noon/sunset in keeping one rotation in sync with one day/night cycle. Modelers refuse to accept these principles by conjuring up solar days and sidereal days just as the same airheads create meteorological seasons vs astronomical seasons with predictable hideous results -

" It is a fact not generally known that,owing to the difference between solar and sidereal time,the Earth rotates upon its axis once more often than there are days in the year" NASA /Harvard

Much like the meteorological vs astronomical seasons, that solar vs sidereal fiction is an impossibility and lacks physical considerations.


Met Eireann staff should be ashamed of themselves for promoting the recent development of the meteorological seasons for no more than there is a meteorological noon each day vs astronomical noon, neither is there an annual equivalent and exposes how little meteorologists appreciate cause and effect in terms of cyclical temperatures and associated events.

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Seems that was too much to ask for.

Irish people are more or less decent and can easily comprehend that temperatures rise past the Solstice just as they rise past 12 noon until 3 PM or so.

It is not always possible to reach everyone as perhaps they lack the talent to put the seasonal rise in temperatures in temperatures after polar noon today in terms of sea ice decline, hurricane season or some other topic.

It is fine to be mean-spirited and dour but that can only get contributors so far as otherwise it is all positive. As the North pole departs its position half way to the circle of illumination after today moves closer then so does the area around the North pole shrinks.

Beautiful insight for beautiful people if any can be found.

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Wayyyy too much...

It takes courage to inspect principles that are technically and historically deficient so that people can enjoy a more suitable explanation for the seasons and milestones like polar noon today, not just the astronomical event itself but also the cyclical meteorological events which occur over the next few months as the ocean heats up towards the North pole and links the hurricane season with Arctic sea ice disappearance under a dynamical cause.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvbV9llG5L8

There is no point reading what I present so that is the best I can do for you in one sentence.

Nabber wrote: »

Rule III Gaoth Laidir, please pay attention you Newtonian heathen :pac::pac:

Unfortunately it is more like mob rule here but nothing I haven't seen and dealt with before despite the rudeness involved.

Whether readers like it or not, the links between cause and effect, astronomy and meteorology or what amounts to the same thing - the motions of the planet and the Earth science of meteorology can't be split apart hence it's inter-disciplinary nature.

Polar noon today represents not only a milestone in terms of planetary dynamics, it is also a meteorological milestone similar to 12 noon each day as a location exists half way between sunrise and sunset or technically - half way to the circle of illumination.

Irish people are generally fair and not so small that they can't give time to the links between cause (astronomy) and effects (meteorology).